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Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 01:57 GMT
#1458
If you are being daft I will call you daft. That first quote all I say is that Oats isnt a top scum read anymore. Nowhere does it say he is not scummy to me anymore. And then the second post I say that I am not going to vote him unless more information is brought forward that would indict him. How are those two points in any way a contradiction.

I really wish I didn't have to defend myself against this kind of stupid shit with so much on the line. If you have reasonable doubts about me then by all means bring them forward and ask me about those, but right now this is all just useless.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 01:59 GMT
#1461
Seems we disagree.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:00 GMT
#1462
Cheese is more suspicious than Helos or Yamato. Or me for that matter. How are you so sure that cheese isn't scum?
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:03 GMT
#1465
You did say it was an "omfg super ultra mega awesome play right here", but have changed your story since everyone is calling you on how bullshit that is.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:09 GMT
#1472
I can't be 100% certain why he would do that. I can only come up with theories. What seems most likely to me at the moment is that he is going for town cred and trying to push a lynch with his new "cred". He switches off of you, lynching Aqua. Right there he has secured your vote and gotten rid of a vote that may not go his way, now all he needs is one more vote, and with a scum partner he has all the votes he needs.
This is even more evident to me because after the Aqua lynch he immediately goes into how much of a good play it was and how town he is - and then tries to push a course of action for day 3. So right now I think Cheese is scum and tried to gain some quick town cred and push his agenda with it.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:10 GMT
#1474
I didn't read Aqua as scummy at all - it seems we just disagree on that event.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:12 GMT
#1476
You are just lying now. You wanted a no-lynch. Cheese was the first to push for a lynch on anyone.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:16 GMT
#1480
This is so shit. I don't feel comfortable with anyone and if I get this wrong we lose the game.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 02:19 GMT
#1482
I am not indecisive, I am not sure who is scum and who is town. I find it interesting that you seem to be 100% sure though.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 03:32 GMT
#1532
After thinking it through I have come to the conclusion that Helo HAS to be scum. I wanted to be absolutely sure I am making the right decision but at this point I see no scenario for a town Helo. And this post that Oats points out is interesting and the nail in the coffin for me:
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 02 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
EBWOP:
First tag mess-up

Show nested quote +
On December 02 2012 10:36 HeloKnight wrote:
<snip>
First of all, Cheesecake made a post that "proves me" scum. I am in the same situation as him right now, because scum has to be two of Kickstart, yamato and Cheesecake.
<snip>

oh wait why cant Jacob or me be scum?
BECAUSE YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO IS TOWN.


+ Show Spoiler +
On December 02 2012 10:36 HeloKnight wrote:
Why Cheesecake is Scum:

First of all, Cheesecake made a post that "proves me" scum. I am in the same situation as him right now, because scum has to be two of Kickstart, yamato and Cheesecake. Since a Kickstart/yamato team is not likely, Cheesecake is 100% scum to me already. This post is to demonstrate to you all how Cheesecake is scum.

The Aqua Switch: At first, this didn't seem like something scum Cheesecake would do, but the reason for it is that he didn't think Aqua would actually get lynched. He thought he could get free town cred by going after Aqua d2, getting blue Oats lynched anyway, and then going after Aqua easy d3. Let's look at his reasons for voting Oats and then for starting the Aqua wagon:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 08:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
No breadcrumb? Wtf? How the hell am I supposed to believe that... breadcrumbs are super easy to make. I really don't see us lynching anyone else at this point, either. Shit. If he's not scum then this game makes no sense anymore. I was pretty convinced he was scum after my longass post on him. . . He just fits so many categories of scumminess that I can't discount it. If he is really blue, I'm going to be mindfuck'd because I don't see a blue attracting so much suspicion (on purpose?) D1. He could have been easily up for lynch D1 and been forced to claim then because of his actions.

##Vote: Oatsmaster


(wifom) Also, the Doc might not want to claim because they know Oats is going to get lynched anyway.

Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Why I started the Aqua wagon

- No opposition to the Doc claim
- The setup is either Cop / doc or Cop / JK (doc/jk is OP in this setup, no way it's possible)
- A doc would have claimed 100%
- A JK would have likely claimed if he jailed SDM (or someone else for that matter)

So first he points out all of the problems with Oats' claim: super scummy play the whole game, no breadcrumb, attracting tons of suspicion, etc. But then he starts the Aqua wagon while all of those points still stand. All of his reasons for the Aqua wagon revolve around the real Doctor counter-claiming. But we specifically told the Doctor not to claim. SDM even made a long post about why the Doctor shouldn't claim that Cheesecake apparently didn't read:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 30 2012 02:42 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 02:14 Kickstart wrote:
I already admitted I am bad at following this kind of argument about role possibilities and such, but I agree that Oats has been scummy and that him claiming blue does nothing in terms of making any of his actions any less scummy but I am having a really hard time justifying lynching a claimed blue when there is no evidence that he is lying about it. Can you maybe more succinctly say why just lynching him is the best option - because I am not following you and am hesitant about doing something like that.


I don't think I can make it easier than this:


Exhibit A: Why we don't want just doc to counterclaim.

Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 01:54 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
We could do like this:

1. Doc, please counterclaim!
a) Counterclaim happens: we lynch scum Oats and lose our doc.
b) If counterclaim doesn't happen, proceed to 2.

2. JK, please counterclaim!
a) Counterclaim happens: we lynch Oats (who might still be doc)
b) Counterclaim doesn't happen: we have confirmed Oats

Scenario 1: Oats is doc
a) We have a JK: we've outed our JK and we've mislynched our doc (lol)
b) We don't have a JK: we have confirmed Oats

Scenario 2: Oats is scum
c) We have doc: we've outed our doc and lynched scum Oats
d) We have a JK: we've outed our JK and lynched scum Oats

a) is stricly dominated by just lynching Oats
b) is good
c) is stricly dominated by just lynching Oats
d) is stricly dominated by just lynching Oats

Conclusion: JK claiming seems bad


Exhibit B: Why we don't want to counterclaim with doc but not JK

Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 02:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Unless we wanna settle with doc but not JK counterclaiming. But in that case if we have no doc counterclaim we have to assume Oat is doc AND we have to accept the risk of there either being a JK that 1) blocked the NK or 2) blocked scum's night action. If that's the case, Oats' claim can still be fake


1. We don't want both doc and JK to counterclaim.
2. We don't want just doc to counterclaim
Conclusion: We don't want to counterclaim, we want to lynch Oats

Of course the real Doctor wouldn't have counterclaimed, so there was NO reason to trust Oats' claim. Cheesecakes reasons for lynching Oats were still valid, but he starts the wagon on Aqua anyway. Scum reasons for this: get town cred, set up an easy Aqua mislynch tomorrow. Town reasons: ???. He is even insisting that it was a good idea now, when it clearly wasn't. He's constantly saying that he saved us from a blue mislynch, even though he had no reason to think that Oats was actually blue. He says that a Doctor would have claimed, but the Doctor was told not to claim. He is trying hard to look townie for starting the wagon when he never actually wanted Aqua lynched at all.
Also look at this super scummy quote he posted after Aqua flipped:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 12:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
At least I'm keeping things interesting. Obs would have been bored as fuck if we just waited for the Oats lynch, Game's about having fun, amirite? :p

Anyway, time for bed.



Attacking Me and The Munk-E Lynch: Cheesecake has been attacking me for a last minute vote switch.
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
[irrelevent stuff omitted]
I see the reason for the Oats sheep, and to a certain degree, SDM / Jacob. Helo on the other hand, kept saying "Oh, gee wiz, I just don't know!" From the second I posted my case, to the last 15 minutes of the day. This stands out to me. Why the last minute switch? You had a ton of time to decide. Too busy discussing the implications with Z-bo and your scumbuddy? Town Helo has no reason to switch like this, because he was opposed to the entire thing. But suddenly, as if from nowhere, he switches his vote for some random ass paragraph I gave in response to him.

Even more damning, he justifies it by saying "Omg I had like one minute left!" when in reality he had like 2 hours since I made my case.

He says it's "damning" to justify my vote by saying I had little time, when he did the exact same thing to justify his switch onto Munk-E. He also misrepresents the amount of time I had to decide, which I have already explained.
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2012 05:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@SDM

Okay I'm going to make this clear: I should have kept my vote on Yamato. Switching over to Munk was a huge mistake on my part, because I was so damn confused at the situation. Why were people sheeping onto my case so quickly? What was the deal with Munk? Why did Kick put his vote on Yamato? ("that's all I needed to hear") quote. This, and Yamato kept making me feel bad with his whiny posts.

I had to leave early and made one of those quick spur of the moment decisions that should never be made, but you do it anyway. We can blame the mislynch on me, go ahead, but I'm just confused as to why people followed in my wake. When I got back 8 mins before lynch, I was so surprised people were sticking so hard to the lurker lynch over Yamato. In those 8 minutes I reevaluated my decision and realized "Shit, why did I do that? If Yamato doesn't get lynched I'm just going to keep wondering" but at that point it was too late.

Also note that he says that "we can blame the mislynch on him". The only possible purpose of this is to seem more townie by being "honest" and "taking responsibility". However, when it stops working in his favor, he of course redacts that statement:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2012 03:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Also, Kickstart, I like how you blame me for Munks lynch. If I recall, Helo started the wagon on the lurker.

In addition, he says that the Munk-E lynch was completely my fault, not his. This contradicts his previous statement about taking responsibility for the mislynch and throws suspicion on me for my lurker vote, even though he said in his first post that he was fine with lynching a lurker:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!

A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:

1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?

For me:

1) this is my third, one game as mafia one as VT
2) Lynching a lurker d1 is good to me if no viable scum read presents itself. Also, we have no vig to take care of pesky lurkers otherwise.
3) Pie. Jk jk.

As I've said before, no viable scum read presented itself to me d1. So why would a town Cheesecake attack me for doing exactly what he said was good to do in his opening post?

In Conclusion: Cheesecake is scum because he:
- starts the Aqua wagon while having no reason to trust Oats' claim
- touts how townie he is for starting the Aqua wagon
- ignores the fact that the Doctor was being told not to counterclaim
- attacks me for a last-minute vote switch after last-minute switching to Munk-E
- takes responsibility for the Munk-E lynch for no reason, and then says it was my fault
- blames me for the Munk-E lynch, even though I did exactly what he said we should do in his first post

##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake


What a set of OMGUS posts. Pretty much blatant scum thinking on Helos part, he sees that people have figured it out and just replaces his name with the other person people are suspicious of. His huge case on Cheese is taking what I have alrdy said (the suspicions I had raised against cheese) and reaffirming them, trying to get a vote from me onto cheese.
Helos play during the Aqua lynch is scummy as shit too. He gives no reason for swapping his vote to Aqua, and I see NO town reasoning either, given that he claims that Oats was still scummy to him - he made the swap to try and look townie.


I am fairly confident that Helo is scum because like I said I see no scenerio for town Helo playing the way he has.

##vote: HeloKnight
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 03:34 GMT
#1535
EBWOP

The "case" that helo pushes is the nail in the coffin i meant, not oats quoting one line out of it.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 03:39 GMT
#1540
A bus? I am not sheeping any of you tards. Again I looked at everyone here and was taking my time in making the right decision. Helo was obviously taking what I had already said and making a case against cheese with every fucking point I had already made trying to swing a vote from me.

And shutup yamato trying to jump on me about "busing". Far as I am concerned you are the last scum.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 03:43 GMT
#1545
Not true. Every point I have made was original. But anyways.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 04:23 GMT
#1549
GG townies, well played.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 04:32 GMT
#1554
Lol reading Obs chat depressing for me.
"they should lynch kickstart so he doesn't have to be so angry" :[

I WAS JUST MESSIN I LOVE YOU ALL
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 04:40 GMT
#1562
Lol. I was not here when Helo switched his vote from Oats to Aqua. I dunno if that would have won us the game (keeping it on Oats) but it woulda made for a much easier day 3 for us I think.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 04:40 GMT
#1564
Yeh I know right. I ws so angreh this game. FUCK ALL YOU RETARDS (kidding :[)
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 04:48 GMT
#1571
Lol I just got to right before Oats claimed in the Obs thread. Obsers were calling it a scum win at that point lulz.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 05:04 GMT
#1584
I spose that makes sense about calling him bad then voting him. I just saw it as an easy opportunity though ;o
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 02 2012 05:11 GMT
#1590
Seems I messed up really early with the Oats tuneling because the entirety of the Obs chat had me pinned down -_-. Good thing town didn't? xD
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