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On November 14 2012 12:31 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:19 Kickstart wrote:
I am down for flipping you and BH at this point. I am not really interesting in arguing with you about it - I find the fact that I was down for voting BH and you, then after him claiming jk just voting for you to be perfectly reasonable. Again I want other people to weigh in though. You're fine with flipping either of two vets? I'm not comfortable lynching either bh marv or hapa on D1 unless there's some huge scumslip.
You are not the first to post this thing about not wanting to lynch vets on D1, and I can understand that sentiment. I am just going off of what I see from this game, and I've given my views on Hapa, and BH has been ANYTHING but pro-town this game.
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I am tired and a bit annoyed (upset? ;/) about the reactions towards me so I think I'm going to chill for the night and reevaluate my posts etc. I don't think what I have posted is as bad as people are making it out to be ( I know I've been a little terse and could probably offer more analysis instead of being lazy and just saying "I think x,y, and z" without sufficient explanation) but if so many people are saying the same thing there has to be some truth to it :[.
Anyways enough self loathing, I'm going to relax and will be reading, rereading, and generally following the thread but probably won't post much until I've had some sleep and come on fresh tomorrow (with plenty of time before lynch time).
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I'm here and been following the thread. All the cases against hopeless have been pretty solid and convincing so far and he has yet to give a good response, added to the fact that I already had an anti-town read on him before I think he is a good D1 lynch candidate. Hapa I feel has given several good and well reasoned posts recently spelling out his views on everyone, and just generally being pro-town. That being said,
##unvote
##vote: Hopeless1der
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On November 15 2012 06:30 Hopeless1der wrote:
Kickstart, what are your feelings on debears?
I don't have a scum read on debears like some others seem to have, so I don't feel comfortable casting a vote his way. Hapas case against him is unconvincing to me and debears' defence of his posts is how I felt about them to begin with. I also don't think him not mentioning BHs claim is a read one way or the other. Looking through the thread I think debears has made good reads and been on the right side of several issues thus far especially the snb wagon early on.
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On November 15 2012 06:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 06:29 Kickstart wrote:
I'm here and been following the thread. All the cases against hopeless have been pretty solid and convincing so far and he has yet to give a good response, added to the fact that I already had an anti-town read on him before I think he is a good D1 lynch candidate. Hapa I feel has given several good and well reasoned posts recently spelling out his views on everyone, and just generally being pro-town. That being said,
##unvote
##vote: Hopeless1der Please explain in your own words and without referring to other people's posts why you had an anti-town read on him, and explain why you didn't share this read.
I did share this read:
On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote:
@debears
I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.
Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.
ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.
With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back!
And I feel everything I said is still valid, thus I'm waiting to hear more from hopless.
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Regarding Z-Boson
I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!).
Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:
Regarding Hopeless1der
Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.
His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.
And then there is this:
On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.
I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB???
You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
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Well sheeeeet. Seems we can't get enough votes onto hopeless, who out of the ~4 people who are getting all the votes at the moment is who I would really go for. I DO NOT want to vote ZB, so time to vote DarthPunk.
## unvote
##vote: DarthPunk
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On November 15 2012 10:33 Blazinghand wrote:
kickstart I take it all back you sexy fellow
much love friend, much love <3
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Everyone switch to hopeless -_-
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what a shitstorm this is
## Unvote
## Vote hapa
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bahaahaahahahaha, i feel sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo vindicated right now
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bh next by the way, called hapa & bh forever ago
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On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote:Here is why I have doubts about Hapa. Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again. Oh hum I need something more controversial then. Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned! ##Vote DarthPunk I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ : + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamp
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. He then unvotes DP just to revote him: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote:
if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post
##vote: hapahauli
im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig So retarded. ##Vote: Strongandbig You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy? The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII). ##Vote DarthPunk('fo real this time) Which he unvotes again -_- And there is the whole SnB bandwagon that he jumps on: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote:
Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game. I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller. My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red. That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet. Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out  HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler this is stupid He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here. ## Vote StrongandBig At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly).
On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.
For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.
I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.
##Vote: Hapahauli
and @Hapa
No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads.
So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
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EBWOP: I suppose my question is something better left for post-game.
This lynch kind of clears BH for me. I think had he been scum everything he did surrounding this lynch would have been different, but I will have to take a closer look at how it unfolded because that was a huge shitstorm like none other.
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On November 15 2012 14:54 Blazinghand wrote:
And I know you guys are gonna hate me for thus, but uh, yeah, I'm not a JK. Monday I had some family issues come up and it meant I wouldn't have much time to play through today, so I had to fake claim. Thursday and onwards I'm free though. Of course everyone is gonna be like super mad at me for this, but it worked, okay? Okay.
... wat
The surprises from you don't stop coming. I take back what I said about you not being suspicious!
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Right so, looking towards the next lynch. Other than Crossfire, who I am also fine with voting for the same reasons already posted, inactive and when he does post it was like wat?????, I am leaning towards voting on BH and Hopeless.
Regarding BH
So early day 1 his posting was bad, he got called out for it and there was some pressure on him and then he just claims JK without trying to ease the suspicion on him at all. There was plenty of time to discuss and he was there for it afterwards, so why in the world claim JK.
Now he says he fakeclaimed..... Well shit son, you just got way more suspicious than you already were. I think the analysis of him stating he fakeclaimed has been right :
He is scum or he is JK trying to give himself some room with a mafia who would be going after a claimed JK.
I just can't help but think that given everything, him being scum is the easier call.
In summation, I didn't read him town before his JK claim, I didn't like or believe the JK claim (but a claimed JK - fake or not, was not going to get lynched D1 so I moved on), and now he is just like "O hey guys btw I lied". So down for lynching BH.
Regarding Hopeless
Shortly before the D1 lynch I posted this on my thoughts of hopeless:
On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all: Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
Notice how since then not a single thing has changed. He kept his vote on debears throughout the entire lynch and is still posting the same way. At least he admits that atm he looks terribly scummy, but continues to do nothing to change that perception.
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And this shit about me lurking is getting annoying, I have posts all throughout the thread, I have given my views on people and been completely genuine. Just because I'm not spamming up the thread with useless one-liner shit posts like half the people here doesn't mean I'm lurking.
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On November 16 2012 06:36 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 06:34 Kickstart wrote:
And this shit about me lurking is getting annoying, I have posts all throughout the thread, I have given my views on people and been completely genuine. Just because I'm not spamming up the thread with useless one-liner shit posts like half the people here doesn't mean I'm lurking. You get all the information from posts that other people have enticed. If everyone was playing like you no one would be making cases because there would be no information.
Ok fair enough - I haven't helped pull any information. But I have given thoughts on several people (hapa, bh, hopeless, my thoughts on ZB) without just quoting what someone else has said. I really don't want to use the fact that this is my first game as an excuse for myself, but it is true and is why I'm posting the way I am. But in my defense, at least I am trying to contribute - there are plenty of people who may be posting tons but aren't contributing anything or even trying to.
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Namely hopeless and BH. BH is posting tons but it is all crap - not to mention making the game 1238712897312387x more confusing for town.
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EBWOP: I will make a post giving some detailed thoughts later. At this moment I have another commitment so I have to dip out but I will get the post up before night actions.
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EPT
