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On November 06 2012 21:32 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 21:04 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 06 2012 21:01 Djodref wrote:
ok, we have now 2 VT dead. Both of them were at least as experienced on playing mafia on this forum if not more for debears. Both of them did not ask the host about the flavor or whatever.
Here is what I expect of VT Clarity
~ not sending a question to the host about the flavor in your own VT pm, which Clarity did
~ even with some doubts, recognize the genuiness of the other two VT going into a high five festival and join the festival, which Clarity did not do
My conclusion: you are not VT or it s really unlikely and you have not natural reactions for a newbie
please tell me where I am wrong You are wrong in the fact that no matter which role I am I would have noticed the flavor difference in PM and OP. This automatically answers your second point, why the hell would I go into a high five festival, giving scum more info about who's VT and who's blue. Do you have any idea the power you would have given to town with 3 confirmed townies ? No, you wanted to avoid this, so you spread doubt and confusion. My point is that you would have sympatize with debears and cheese if you were also a VT, especially with Cheese because you had no reason to suspect him beforehand (his play being very similar to yours), even with the extra information that you had, because you would have been before in their position, ie with no information at all. Did you see debears reaction after this, he tried to confirm all the VT alltogether. It would have ended the game... I'm sorry but you are not VT, and I hope that all the other VTs in this game can realize this after this poat.
The power I would have given to TOWN?!
A mass roleclaim day 1 is good for town?
Even if I knew that Cheese was VT because of that post, which I didn't because I knew everyone had the flavor, how the hell is confirming 3 VT good for town? All it does is make the list of possible blue players shorter.
I told everyone to "stfu", because Cheese's claim meant nothing other than that he claimed VT. I read it as a null tell, but then he didn't defend himself and gave up, which I read as a scum tell.
Yes, I wanted to avoid having 3 non-confirmed town pose as confirmed town. I wasn't the one spreading doubt and confusion, cheese was. Even if I had said nothing marv would have still shown up and told everyone that the flavor is known to all.
Debears did react like that in the heat of the moment, Rad and Sylver called that out as the worst move of all time, and he agreed shortly after.
I sympathized with debears much more than cheese. I don't know why you think the opposite of that, there's a reason I jumped from debears to cheese, and there's a reason I didn't jump back on debears when I got the opportunity.
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Answer my damn question, what did you mean by "given your experience this game"
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On November 06 2012 22:02 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 21:42 Clarity_nl wrote:
Answer my damn question, what did you mean by "given your experience this game" I mean that you are a newb, and newb dont go and ask questions to the host.
What? New people are LESS inclined to ask questions?
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On your question of what VT Clarity would think.
On November 06 2012 03:00 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:32 Djodref wrote:
@ Clarity
Could you at least tell me when you asked marv your question ?
I'm only asking for when right now ^^ Date: 11/5/12 2:48 Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:29 Obzy wrote:On November 06 2012 02:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Obzy
The reason I asked marv before Cheese claiming was because I noticed what Cheese did. The OP Townie does not match with the PM townie. The PM townie flavor is in every PM. How do you conclude from this that I am blue or scum? Because whether or not the text matches in the OP compared to the PM doesn't matter. I'm certain that every single person noticed this, but nobody else (has mentioned) PM'd Marv specifically asking if the VT flavor text meant VT. It seemed fairly self-explanatory. And - I was under the impression that Cheese's claim was technically when he first put Regular Fapper at the end of his post; to him [as it turned out], that was a claim to all other VTs to take notice of that would not be recognized by blue or mafia. I don't agree that Cheese's actual claim was later- it was clear to him from the beginning. That's not what I asked. I asked if everyone was aware of the VT flavor. If I'm VT -> I want to make sure if I should claim (when the time comes) Townie or Regular Fapper, and I wonder if scum/blue knows flavour. If I'm Blue -> I want to know if scum knows VT flavor, and if VT knows the rest knows flavour. If I'm Scum -> I want to know if blues know flavor, and if VT know the rest knows flavour. Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:29 Obzy wrote:
Don't try to convince me that you aren't scum, convince me(and everybody else) who is. Easy for you to say, there are only so many hours in a day and I spent all of mine defending myself, and still am. I was hoping today would be calmer because it's the nightcycle, but it seems people would rather push and push and push rather than collect their thoughts. Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:43 Djodref wrote:On November 06 2012 02:01 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 06 2012 02:00 Djodref wrote:On November 06 2012 01:52 Clarity_nl wrote:No, I tried to stop him from saying that because if he did, as town, it would be moronic. And as you pointed out, I was starting to doubt my case on debears. Do you really not see a scum motive for Cheese pointing me out as "confirmed town" Again, you seem to think I had special information after marv posted that everyone knows VT flavor, but I didn't, you were just as informed as I was. We all voted for Cheese.Town Clarity has forgot Cheese for a while No, I was just kinda busy answering 1001 questions from you and debears. I was busy defending myself. @ ClarityAre you trying to deny your responsibility in the lynch ? Daoud did not vote for Cheese because he really believed that debears was scum... I have explained my reasons for lynching Cheese. I was being stupid but at least it makes some sense. I don't understand how you could not recognize that he was town and genuinely believing in the power of the VT flavor. How could you believe he was scum ? The only reason I see is that you were mafia and too happy to see a possibility to escape your lynch to think straight. I was already safe from lynching before I switched. @ ClarityOk, that's cool, if you were safe when you switched, it's sure that your vote did not mean anything. It does mean something, but what it meant (in my eyes) was: "I'm having doubts about debears being scum, especially with the way he's reacting to all of this" Cheese looked scummiest to me at that point, and YES, it made it so that I didn't get lynched. Surprise, a 100% wrong lynch looked worse to me than the person who looked scummiest to me. (See, I can do sarcasm as well)
On November 06 2012 03:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 03:18 Obzy wrote:On November 06 2012 03:00 Clarity_nl wrote:
That's not what I asked. I asked if everyone was aware of the VT flavor.
If I'm VT -> I want to make sure if I should claim (when the time comes) Townie or Regular Fapper, and I wonder if scum/blue knows flavour.
If I'm Blue -> I want to know if scum knows VT flavor, and if VT knows the rest knows flavour.
If I'm Scum -> I want to know if blues know flavor, and if VT know the rest knows flavour. Hmmm. To me, the idea that other roles knew VT flavor didn't remotely cross my mind until it became a central issue, so it made no sense that you would've asked Marv about it. I'll think on it. Alsn and Rad feeling differently about you is making me worry lol. Okay well, you implied you narrowed me down to blue or scum, so let me phrase it this way: If I'm VT, and I notice the difference between PM and OP flavour, I would wonder if saying I'm a regular fapper would create chaos because the blue roles and scum have no idea what I'm talking about OR if I claim Townie, that people would say I'm lying because I would've known it was called regular fapper if I was actually VT..... I hope that makes sense.
I refuse to answer any more of your questions if I have already answered them before. This has happened way too much for me to think you simply "missed it."
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On November 06 2012 22:02 Djodref wrote:
On a side note, your scumhunting looks like a defense move...
Djo, I stopped caring what you think of me a long time ago. I have realized I cannot convince you otherwise.
You are either full of confirmation bias or you are scum. Me asking you questions are to determine which it is.
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I will be back in my evening, ~4 hours from now.
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Okay... I'm back.
A few questions pop to mind immediately.
Djo, why did you claim? I don't think you were in any real danger of getting lynched, and I don't think this changes anything about your suspicion of me.
What is the flavor in your PM?
Why do you want me to claim so bad?
Why do you believe that outing yourself at blue makes it less likely that you were blue hunting? You obviously do not want to use your abilities on other blues.
Why didn't you protect debears? You explained he was an obvious NK candidate.
If you jailed Alsn N1, why did you suspect him today? Why did you "pressure vote" him and now take it back?
I have some calls to make right now, after that I'll read through some filters and be back.
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I still don't see the reason for claiming, but after him saying he'll wait until I claim to show the flavor of his pm I'm inclined to believe him.
Marv told me that blue roles are not allowed to claim with flavor, only with their vanilla role names, like djo did. I figured I would ask in case he made up something.
Please explain better why you claimed, djo. I don't see "because I was being told I was blue hunting" as a reason.
Why do you want me to claim? and I've already said what I asked marv, why don't you read the damn thread.
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That's still not a reason, it's just you wanting me to claim.
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@ Alsn
How does Djod's claim make you turn 180 and say that it's Rad and me?
Was your analysis of my possible innocence hinging on Djo being scum?
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WHY do you want me to claim? If you are so certain I am scum, why does it matter what/if I claim?
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Also, why does being blue give you more leverage than just being unconfirmed? (and by no means are you confirmed)
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On November 07 2012 04:24 Djodref wrote:
@ Clarity
My claim makes sense and I hope to be considered as confirmed town soon. With this statis, my opinions carry more weight because other town players can fully trust me.
Don't you see how much I have committed to lynch you ? I hope I can move people with my commitment !
I don't think anyone was questioning your commitment to get me lynched.
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Djo, last time I'll ask, why do you want me to claim?
Alsn please answer my questions on the last page.
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Again with the blue hunting.....
Please try to think of how your reactions would differ if I claimed: VT, Cop, Doctor or Jailkeeper
Do your reactions differ? I ask again, why do you want me to claim?
Consider this, if I am town I gave hints towards both being VT and blue because I do not want to give scum the ammo. Why do you think I emphasized so much on the possibility of me being VT?
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On November 07 2012 04:41 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
How does Djod's claim make you turn 180 and say that it's Rad and me?
Was your analysis of my possible innocence hinging on Djo being scum? I don't see how my post just above this doesn't explain this question, but ok, I'll bite. It doesn't hinge on you being scum. But assuming I believe his claim he obviously isn't a likely candidate anymore. So assuming his claim is legit(which I don't have much reason to doubt at this point) you and Rad definitely fit the profile. Like I said, I still want to look at other possibilities, and I will. But for now it seems too good to be true that his claim is fake just to frame the two of you.
The reason I ask is because you (maybe not as extravagantly as Rad) argued against Djo, calling out parts of his argument as bogus. You also claimed that it's possible he just has mega confirmation bias. Why do any of these two beliefs diminish, even if marv swooped in and told everyone Djo is Jailkeeper.
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On November 07 2012 04:45 Djodref wrote:
Yes, my reactions are going to differ... I'll have strong suspicions against you in any case but I might be able to believe one of them.
I have no fucking idea why you were so reluctant to give any information. And honestly, the only thing I am waiting from your side right now is to find me someone who is more likely to be scum than you.
You are wasting your time while discussing with me...
On November 07 2012 04:17 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 04:11 Clarity_nl wrote:
I still don't see the reason for claiming, but after him saying he'll wait until I claim to show the flavor of his pm I'm inclined to believe him.
Marv told me that blue roles are not allowed to claim with flavor, only with their vanilla role names, like djo did. I figured I would ask in case he made up something.
Please explain better why you claimed, djo. I don't see "because I was being told I was blue hunting" as a reason.
Why do you want me to claim? and I've already said what I asked marv, why don't you read the damn thread. @ ClarityI've claimed because I wanted some leverage to lynch you. Are you a Regular Fapper ? Are you a blue ? or.. Are you scum ? Do not waste time and go scumhunt (if you are town) because I think that your life depends on this right now...
Which one is it?
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ebwop Or do I misunderstand and you told me to scumhunt in both? I'm super confused.
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Okay. I am not convinced your claim is legitimate. I'll wait for everyone to post at least once so there is no counter claim.
I will not be claiming for now, I really don't see the reason to. If someone other than Djod believes I should claim because it would help town, please let me know.
I'll be going through filters again. I read Rad as town all game so far, because he's come to my defense, but I'm starting to wonder if he's just defending me because I was likely to get lynched, and it would get him townie points.
Be back with more, later.
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Yes I understand that if you work under the assumption that Djo is town, he's not scum. That wasn't what I was saying.
@ everyone
Just please make sure you look at Djo's actual arguments, rather than his opinions.
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EPT
