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On November 03 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 13:00 Djodref wrote:@ CheeseI'm pretty sure that the following quote was totally serving your mafia agenda in the last game. But I guess I should better trust you because I don't really see why you should be dishonest right now about it. On October 29 2012 13:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Holy meta argument Batbears. Are you saying that Dandel under pressure is basically = Kush in terms of meta? Let's take a look at the second one On October 28 2012 09:20 Rad wrote:
Djo NOW YOU SHOW UP? On October 28 2012 09:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
A wild Djo appears? I don't know if you have seen Rad post or not before posting yours but I really felt that you were both accusing me of active lurking. Why the lolwut by the way ? What did you not understand in my comment ? @Djo The second part of the first quote isn't a joke. It's an analogy. Therefore it has nothing to do with anything. The second quote: Pokemon reference, it means I think of you as a pokemon. Pokemon are innocent and cute; I'm not casting aspersions on you in the least. Yes, @obsQT I just mentioned pokemon. We could go with this WIFOM crap all day. These "jokes" means absolutely nothing. Are we seriously still talking about a failboat joke? Stop this incessant attempt to tunnel me--it bears no weight at all because it is probably one of the most subjective things one could possibly focus on. Especially since it's coming from another game entirely. I declare this useless argument over *gavel slam*. @ CheeseI'll stop tunneling you when I'm satisfied with your answers. Why do you want us to stop discussing ? This discussion has derived from its original point to go something quite useless, I agree. My point is that you could have used these jokes to make me look bad. I know this was a pokemon reference but I think "a wild Djo appears" was implying active lurking, especially in the context of the thread, rather than implying that I was innocent as a pokemon. My point is that jokes can be used by mafia to cast suspicion on a player without looking like you are doing it. It's a great tool used this way.
Djo, if you are town, stop arguing over stupid points. You're wrong. Get over it
If you're mafia, keep arguing
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On November 03 2012 13:25 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:22 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:11 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay re-reading your post you're saying we shouldn't focus on one/two people, instead considering everyone and not consolidate on a lynch? @ ClarityExactly, I think you everyone should just vote for his top scumread while giving enough reason to do so and then we start again from there and see who is likely to be lynched, be it 2 or 3 players. I think it's the best way to use plurality lynch. Considering only 2 possibilities narrows the discussion and allows mafia players to have some excuse to lynch town (cf Cheese last game lynching daoud in the daoud/ini match-up). The downfall is that the end of the day could be a bit messy. seriously.....why are we having to explain this? 1) Scumhunt 2) Vote for your top scumread 3) When the voting comes down to 2 candidates and lynch is near, pick one of two said candidates and give reasoning why you're voting them Is that clear enough for all of you to understand? Please stop talking about policy Because he mentioned it here: Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:13 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:02 Djodref wrote:
It is confusing, especially when you are attacking the same guy over semantics just after your joke. It could be also a nice way to influence our read on debears while looking clean.
I agree that he was making a joke but please consider the motivations for it.
Town motivations
I don't see town motivations for making a joke about a scumtell
Mafia motivations
Creates confusion and disturbs the thread. Allows to influence our read on debears while looking clean You also neglect to realize that my joke was in a RESPONSE to his joke. (I don't wear hats). You're really trying to dig where there is nothing. @ CheeseOk, you had motivations for doing this joke but it doesn't really help town while it could be done with mafia motivation. And, at least, I'm trying to dig something. Would you prefer me to discuss how we should use plurality lynch ? Which got me curious what he had to say on the subject. Turns out the answer is nothing new. Which begs the question: Why did he mention it in the first place?
Clarity, I think it was meant to be read as more of this:
Do you want me to push something and try to get the thread going, or do you want me to talk about useless policy?
Would you agree with that?
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On November 03 2012 13:26 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:22 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:11 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay re-reading your post you're saying we shouldn't focus on one/two people, instead considering everyone and not consolidate on a lynch? @ ClarityExactly, I think you everyone should just vote for his top scumread while giving enough reason to do so and then we start again from there and see who is likely to be lynched, be it 2 or 3 players. I think it's the best way to use plurality lynch. Considering only 2 possibilities narrows the discussion and allows mafia players to have some excuse to lynch town (cf Cheese last game lynching daoud in the daoud/ini match-up). The downfall is that the end of the day could be a bit messy. seriously.....why are we having to explain this? 1) Scumhunt 2) Vote for your top scumread 3) When the voting comes down to 2 candidates and lynch is near, pick one of two said candidates and give reasoning why you're voting them Is that clear enough for all of you to understand? Please stop talking about policy @ debearsMy point is that it would benefit us to consider more than 2 candidates for the lynch. Anyway it's too late to discuss about it now, I was just answering Clarity's question about it. By the way it's not policy, it's lynch mechanics 
More semantics, anyways it's useless.
What do you think of Obsy's, Dau0d's, and Sylver's epic uselessness so far?
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Very well Clarity,
anything else that you find jumps out weird so far?
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On Obsy
On November 03 2012 10:32 Obzy wrote:
Wouldn't making a lurker-lynch policy be somewhat counterproductive? Like - lynching lurkers, that sounds smart. But if it's "policy", then everyone knows not to lurk - so there wouldn't be a lynch on lurkers - and if there was, why the heck would mafia be lurking? It's more like lynching the people with the least time, as long as everybody is at least somewhat active.
If that makes any sense ._.;
Obsy has been around the thread. What I have found is that he seems to be actively lurking. Notice above post. Asking a pretty much useless question. It's newbie town/scum tell, so it's a null tell
On November 03 2012 10:36 Obzy wrote:
Right - no; I agree with that - I guess I was caught on the wording. Describing it as a policy lynch made it sound like there wouldn't be much discussion on the matter which sounded counterproductive.
He has a few one-liners like the above. Mostly, his posts do not take a strong stance and his opinions seem to be easily swayed. Again newbie town/scum tell.
On November 03 2012 10:36 Obzy wrote:
Sheesh this thread moves fast I need to start quoting o_o; I write a post and there's 3 replies above me.
I don't like this post. At all. Trying to come up with excuses to not be posting. Sure the thread is moving pretty decently (score one for town), but it's nothing huge and pretty easy to follow so far imo.
On November 03 2012 10:40 Obzy wrote:
In that case, sounds good. I agree. Regarding Alsn's post... It kinda looks like he's responding like that just cause you said pulling an Alsn? I guess? Or trying to goad some sort of discussion.
Here he acts confused. He asks questions without answering them himself or even really attempting to answer them himself.
On November 03 2012 11:17 Obzy wrote:@debears - Your reaction really does seem out of place, when I'm rereading. I've been refreshing constantly, trying to read everything and make a useful post, but nothing really seemed like it would contribute to a discussion, and I don't want to have pointless posts for the sake of "being active". Contributing, not spamming. Upon looking at it that way, your posts and being interested in Alsn's word choice is surprisingly defensive. Given that there wasn't really any way for other players to pop their heads in and comment without semi-defusing the situation saying "it wasn't that big of a deal", why hold onto it? Quite specifically, Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:35 debears wrote:
Anyways what's your guys thoughts on alsns post? - why ask something like that? I didn't really think it worth paying any mind to, but you kept going on it. (And now, just above, you're asking djo why he didn't get involved in your argument - I didn't want to get involved either, it seemed largely purposeless.) jesus i type this post, read for spelling mistakes, reopen a new browser to make sure i'm not missing some sort of new information and fucking blammo like 5 posts
Who have a tough time contributing early? Usually scum because
1) They are afraid to post and put themselves out there since they are guilty and know so
2) They know the players they are accusing are town and they can't actually find real evidence to use
However, I admit this is also a newbie town trait.
On November 03 2012 12:34 Obzy wrote:
I don't think that getting a read off of whether or not Cheese has a joking tone or not really means anything at all. At least, the fact that he's aware of it means that he could manipulate it either way.
Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread.
Summary:
Obsy has been actively lurking and blending in
His posts are indicative of newbie town/scum however they are looking slightly scummy at this point
@Obsy
1) Defend yourself against these points
2) Go ask for some coaching help (It'll help you improve more quickly)
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On November 03 2012 13:36 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:31 debears wrote:
Very well Clarity,
anything else that you find jumps out weird so far? Last three pages was djo, you and me. Still no word from da0ud and sylver. I think you are wrong in saying Obzy is useless. He might not have posted a lot but he makes good points or asks decent questions when he does, maybe you feel that way because he's biggest post is directed at you?
That's a good point. Also, add CC into that. Hmmmm that's good.
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On November 03 2012 13:42 Rad wrote:
@Clarity
That's a great point and I want to reemphasize it.
@Obzy
If you're town, please disregard any suggestions about you being useless so far. Just keep attempting to be useful and you'll get the hang of it. You don't have to post as much as debears, djo, or even myself to be useful so don't get discouraged. However, don't hold back and give your input on things when you have input as it'll be helpful to town if we get some more input from you.
Also I see debears has directed some questions at you so here's a chance to open up a bit.
Yeah. That case is in no way saying omg he's scum. It's more of light pressure to get him to state some views, be more active in this.
However, Rad, what I would like to know is that, although you are obviously following the thread in the shadows, you aren't posting to much. Why is that?
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On November 03 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:28 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:26 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:22 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:11 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay re-reading your post you're saying we shouldn't focus on one/two people, instead considering everyone and not consolidate on a lynch? @ ClarityExactly, I think you everyone should just vote for his top scumread while giving enough reason to do so and then we start again from there and see who is likely to be lynched, be it 2 or 3 players. I think it's the best way to use plurality lynch. Considering only 2 possibilities narrows the discussion and allows mafia players to have some excuse to lynch town (cf Cheese last game lynching daoud in the daoud/ini match-up). The downfall is that the end of the day could be a bit messy. seriously.....why are we having to explain this? 1) Scumhunt 2) Vote for your top scumread 3) When the voting comes down to 2 candidates and lynch is near, pick one of two said candidates and give reasoning why you're voting them Is that clear enough for all of you to understand? Please stop talking about policy @ debearsMy point is that it would benefit us to consider more than 2 candidates for the lynch. Anyway it's too late to discuss about it now, I was just answering Clarity's question about it. By the way it's not policy, it's lynch mechanics More semantics, anyways it's useless. What do you think of Obsy's, Dau0d's, and Sylver's epic uselessness so far? @ debearsThe game has just started. Regarding daoud and sylver, the longer it takes for them to join the discussion, the bigger my expectations are for their future input. Obsy has to step up a little bit. @Obsy if you are town, you should definitively ask Hapa for help
So you're saying Obsy is town????? Obvious scumtell omg guyszzzz instalynch him
Lol NMM XXVIII Never forget
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On November 03 2012 13:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:48 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:28 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:26 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:22 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:11 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 13:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay re-reading your post you're saying we shouldn't focus on one/two people, instead considering everyone and not consolidate on a lynch? @ ClarityExactly, I think you everyone should just vote for his top scumread while giving enough reason to do so and then we start again from there and see who is likely to be lynched, be it 2 or 3 players. I think it's the best way to use plurality lynch. Considering only 2 possibilities narrows the discussion and allows mafia players to have some excuse to lynch town (cf Cheese last game lynching daoud in the daoud/ini match-up). The downfall is that the end of the day could be a bit messy. seriously.....why are we having to explain this? 1) Scumhunt 2) Vote for your top scumread 3) When the voting comes down to 2 candidates and lynch is near, pick one of two said candidates and give reasoning why you're voting them Is that clear enough for all of you to understand? Please stop talking about policy @ debearsMy point is that it would benefit us to consider more than 2 candidates for the lynch. Anyway it's too late to discuss about it now, I was just answering Clarity's question about it. By the way it's not policy, it's lynch mechanics More semantics, anyways it's useless. What do you think of Obsy's, Dau0d's, and Sylver's epic uselessness so far? @ debearsThe game has just started. Regarding daoud and sylver, the longer it takes for them to join the discussion, the bigger my expectations are for their future input. Obsy has to step up a little bit. @Obsy if you are town, you should definitively ask Hapa for help So you're saying Obsy is town????? Obvious scumtell omg guyszzzz instalynch him Lol NMM XXVIII Never forget Never joke about scumtells. It's confusing.
Then put your cheesecake where your mouth is and vote me
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On November 03 2012 13:52 Djodref wrote:
I need to go to the wedding now, see ya !
Go get laid for me brotha!
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And @CC
In Djo's absence, I want you to answer this:
While you're joking is a null tell, the fact is that you have
1) Not scumhunted
2) Focused on defending yourself
and
3) Joking around a little too much
Point 3, by itself, means nothing. Combined with 1 and 2, it means quite a bit. Who do you find scummy and why?
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On November 03 2012 13:59 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:47 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 13:42 Rad wrote:
@Clarity
That's a great point and I want to reemphasize it.
@Obzy
If you're town, please disregard any suggestions about you being useless so far. Just keep attempting to be useful and you'll get the hang of it. You don't have to post as much as debears, djo, or even myself to be useful so don't get discouraged. However, don't hold back and give your input on things when you have input as it'll be helpful to town if we get some more input from you.
Also I see debears has directed some questions at you so here's a chance to open up a bit. Yeah. That case is in no way saying omg he's scum. It's more of light pressure to get him to state some views, be more active in this. However, Rad, what I would like to know is that, although you are obviously following the thread in the shadows, you aren't posting to much. Why is that? To quote myself: Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:23 Rad wrote:
I will be pretty active this weekend, but I'm also a huge sc2 fan and mlg will be taking most of my attention. Definitely going to be reading/thinking/posting on downtime and/or boring matchups. I don't see much value in chiming in on every little argument. When I have a good read on something being a bad argument, I'll chime in and try to stop it (as I have been doing), or if it's a good argument, I'll try to help push it (not many of these so far, but some I'm letting go because conversation is good). I feel I've contributed a good amount so far and with it being 1am here, I'm trying to enjoy my night as well as contribute here and there.
Ah ok understood. I'll expect more from you tomorrow.
Also, how are you watching MLG? Gomtv??? I'm more casual sc2 but I like watching
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Nice. Townie points for you lol
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Hmmm CC dips out right when I question him. Very strange.
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##Vote Dau0d
Just so you lurkers know I'm serious
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@CC
I see some possibly good points in those. I'll consider that. It is early game so you could possibly be reading too much into his posting.
Something that I want to add to the reread part is that I find it unlikely that Djo would be rereading the thread, and only notice your joke as weird. He didn't notice obsy's posts, or guys like rad active lurking
also, he seemed to shy away from me in the beginning and focus on policy/mechanics too much.
What do you think of
Clarity - i don't see too much wrong with his posting
Rad - active lurking with mlg excuse
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On November 03 2012 14:21 Obzy wrote:K - This is in response to debears post asking about me. I may screw up the formatting but hopefully not - Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:
Obsy has been around the thread. What I have found is that he seems to be actively lurking. Notice above post. Asking a pretty much useless question. It's newbie town/scum tell, so it's a null tell
Yeah, I've been trying to read and refresh the thread regularly, I think I've been away from it for maybe an hour total since game start. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:
He has a few one-liners like the above. Mostly, his posts do not take a strong stance and his opinions seem to be easily swayed. Again newbie town/scum tell.
I've typed out a few posts that were a bit longer, but after re-reading, it didn't look like they did anything to advance town interests and the only thing they did was look spammy and unhelpful, so I've mostly been deleting them. I am, as mentioned, not really certain whether or not I'm judging things properly and taking a concrete stance on something that turns out to be stupid feels sort of dumb. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:
I don't like this post. At all. Trying to come up with excuses to not be posting. Sure the thread is moving pretty decently (score one for town), but it's nothing huge and pretty easy to follow so far imo.
No comment, it does move really fast. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:
Here he acts confused. He asks questions without answering them himself or even really attempting to answer them himself.
I didn't really want to call you out directly. You responded really strongly to Alsn's red font, and it seemed counterproductive - but stifling discussion is a problem; given that you've been the primary generator of discussion. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:
Who have a tough time contributing early? Usually scum because
1) They are afraid to post and put themselves out there since they are guilty and know so
2) They know the players they are accusing are town and they can't actually find real evidence to use
However, I admit this is also a newbie town trait.
I don't have a problem with posting, I don't want to post meaninglessly. Writing about things that are actually useful and will help everybody is difficult, because when I look at what I've drafted it looks moronic and doesn't help anybody. Answering being directly called out is a lot easier, since I don't have to cast about for what to say, I just have to explain how I'm playing. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 13:40 debears wrote:
Honestly, this post is just absolutely worthless. It has no actual input. Says nothing about the current happenings of the thread.
I wanted the conversation to shift away from talking about Cheese using jokes or not. It was a meaningless thing to discuss. Pointing it out so early and then dwelling on it for so long meant that it isn't a good scumtell for Cheese, while also making him aware of the fact he was doing it (Assuming that it WAS a scumtell, it no longer is). That entire discussion was just a waste of time, so I would say that it makes sense that my post, pointing it out, was equally useless. I definitely have been reading the thread, but haven't done a very good job of blending in. That's not really the point, anyways. You haven't been blending in, because you've been actively advancing the interests of town. I'm not a good enough judge to know if you're doing so genuinely, but you're the most active player currently (IMHO). I haven't read past this post yet, but I'll go ahead and do so now. If I see something, I'll comment.
So what is your exact read on me? Scum, slightly scum, null, slightly town, or town?
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On November 03 2012 14:22 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 14:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 13:51 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese
Regarding your pokemon joke explanation, I didn't like how you focused on the content instead of precising what were your motivations for this joke at that time. It would be acceptable if you just told me that it was genuine or an attempt to frame me (it occurred during last game after all).
Nevertheless, I would agree that we should drop this discussion. But you are still on my radar. I made this exact mistake last game as scum, "Djo is not off the hook" thing. He wants to ensure that his suspicions for me are known. As town, he would not have to make this statement because he would have faith that we already know that. I'd like to point out that throughout the last newbie game, I kept pointing out that djo was still on my radar. I don't consider this a scum tell. Perhaps bad town, perhaps not, but certainly not necessarily scum tell (at least at this level, no idea if it is at a higher level). I considered it a "keep the pressure on" type move last game.
I would agree it's a null tell on its own. But, I think if you combine it with his cruddy reasoning for attacking CC, and how he seemed to avoid me earlier, it makes some sense.
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Eyelids starting to close while reading TL Mafia....Goodnight all
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On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again.
@ Debears
What's your ready on Obzy?. [/b]
@Clarity
I have newbie town read right now. He pointed out good reasoning for believing I might be town. His activity is good for now. I do want to see some legit scumhunting from him though.
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EPT
