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debears, I know you had a pretty lengthy flame war with Zbo, but as I recall it I always thought you were the reasonable one in that particular feud. IIRC I even pointed it out during the game. I just find your reactions so far uncharacteristic.
Whether Obzy has thick skin enough to shrug it off is besides the point. You were being demeaning to a new player which is exactly what you did last game. Admittedly, you seem to be painting "everyone" with bullshit this game, which is a slight change.
I actually am a bit concerned, seeing that there's a lot of people who has avoided taking any stances completely until wagons were already well under way. I'm starting to suspect that both you and Clarity might end up being town, but at this point I don't have a better option.
I'll see if I can make a better case against someone else, but I don't see how it would benefit town if we fumble around frenetically leading up to the lynch(see my play D3 last game). Especially since it's still D1, the most important thing is to simply make sure that we hold people responsible for their actions going forward.
Anyway, I'm still not inclined to trust that you've town's best interest in mind. But I'll keep an eye out for how the thread develops.
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Can we get another vote count please?
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@Rad
You've been asking a lot of questions lately, but I can't find many(any?) of your reads, would you mind sharing your stronger ones?
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Actually, make that last post of mine @Cheese too.
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On November 05 2012 05:09 debears wrote:
I still don't get why you guys are thinking it was a personal attack on Obsy. I'll call people out when I think they aren't contributing. Being on the aggressive side usually makes them more alert and responsive. I think the key here is that I haven't kept bashing him. I like his posting since. I have to admit that you're right about that one, you haven't, and I like his posting since then too.
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Cheese, disregarding what we find out if debears is lynched, what do you actually think of him? You say you have difficulty taking him seriously, but what does that tell you? Is he scum or is he null or is he town because of it?
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All right, so Cheese, you say you don't like Clarity's case because it's "totally based on fluff content", yet just a few posts ago you said:
On November 05 2012 04:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Clarity
I agree with the fluff point on your case of Debears - fluff creating more fluff because fluff is fluffy fluff. (Fluff = confidence from last game). The first point, however, you say that he was trying to halt discussion. I'd disagree, Debears and I both wanted Djo to stop because the argument was, well, ridiculous in nature. It was pretty much going in circles and if we hadn't stopped it, we'd still be drowned in it. Which one is it?
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##Unvote
I'm more and more convinced that I may have been wrong about debears. Upon closer inspection I realised that his early FoS in XXIX was against a scum buddy of his, meaning he never planned to follow through on it. So he must have had different reasons for FoSing me early this game. In addition, I have to concede that even if he may have been a bit brusque in his attitude towards some of the newer players, it has indeed gotten them to talk, something which is undoubtedly good for town.
I also may have overestimated the importance of his vote switching. The fact that he did find sylver scummy and then kept arguing with him about it should probably be a town tell, seeing as it revealed a lot of what sylver claimed to be his motivations for voting was.
The problem now though is, I'm not yet convinced that Clarity is scummy, but at this point I don't know who else to vote. I definitely think that Clarity's behaviour seems weird, he didn't really commit to any strong stance until he was pressured to do so by being voted. Yet we could say the same thing about Cheese or even Rad as they've been getting away with "blending in" almost as much as Clarity in my opinion. Cheese's only major stance he has taken yet has been to FoS Djod because Djod thought Cheese joking was scummy, yet what else? Soft-disagreeing with both the lynches because they may or may not be scum?
Not to mention the fact that Cheese isn't even trying to push a Djod lynch even though he said that he's "on the list" when I asked for his strongest reads. He's content with just sitting and soft-commenting and being pretty neutral about everything.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2012 06:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:@RadI liked how you had that townie read on me last game  . I think you had that read because I was playing very neutral (no strong ultra-mega reads) and using logical points. Is Clarity doing that this game? To you, does he seem like me in the previous game? (Original quote had Obzy's name in place of Clarity, but he EBWOPed it to say he meant Clarity a few minutes later)
In the above quote Cheese is doing something he has done earlier in the thread, suggesting someone is acting "just how we acted as scum last game" without actually saying he thinks that the person in question is scummy for it.
He did the same early in the game when he accused debears of FoSing early just like he did against Dandel in XXIX:+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
I'd say Cheese skating by without taking any strong positions except in the case where he wanted to avoid suspicion himself is pretty scummy. He's almost deliberately avoiding taking a stance on any controversial issues, with his filter mostly consisting of pointing out minor inconsistencies as if to show that he's here. Examples in the following spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 10:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liar in red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this Are you really trying to play the activity card on Alsn? It's like 1-2AM there for him.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 01:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 01:39 Alsn wrote:On November 04 2012 01:13 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 14:44 sylverfyre wrote:
Holy shit, this flavor. What.
If we're gonna lynch a lurker, I'd rather it be early game than late, at least. But I think that we have more... dedication among the townies this game. There wasn't a long wait for the last few signups - everyone here seems pretty pumped to play some mafia seriously. I don't think lurker policy lynch will come up at all. You said townies. That's very different than saying the town or players. Very, very different. It means that you either 1) Think the people being active are townies 2) Know that the people being active are townies There is no other reason for using townies to describe those of us who are showing activeness and dedication Also, you voted me, meaning you voted for someone who you think is townie based on the above. That is scummy as shit debears, even if we hypothetically assume the two most active players are scum, it would still mean that town on the whole is being active and not lurking. I think your argument is bad and your insistence that his statement is a scum slip is far fetched imho. I agree with the underlined. As scum last game I focused on Djo's scumslip to help push his lynch even though it was a very questionable one.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 05:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
2.It's very important to state your reasons for your vote. Sylverfire failed to explain what he wanted from debears with his vote so I didn t see it as a pressurr vote. It turned out that it was more like a super FoS. I'm not against pressure voting but you have to state clearly what is your goal with it. Voting for casting suspicion upon someone sounds like voting for voting in my opinion.
3. It was me indeed but I don t think we need the policy for this game. The activity level is high and you can vote for anyone if you have a problem. It works better this way I think. Hmm... @Rad What do you think about that underlined portion right there?
I'd like you to explain what your stances really are without wishy-washy "maybe this maybe that" points that tell us nothing.
FoS Mr. Cheesecake
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EBWOP: His filter is mostly that, or him suspecting Djodref. The majority of his filter is him talking to Djodref, but I find it extremely suspicious that he wouldn't try to push for a Djod lynch way before now and instead just sit back and let us all decide between Clarity or debears.
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In fact, I'm inclined to vote Cheese over Clarity at this point as most likely to be scum. I still think there are good points made against clarity, but mostly they are inconsistencies or weird logic(such as the latest one pointed out by debears) and I don't think being inconsistent is necessarily a scum tell. Not keeping track of your own thoughts seems to me to be a town tell(since townies are not that concerned with keeping their story straight).
Why I think Mr. Cheesecake is scum
- For avoiding attention and skating by other than to discredit an attacker against himself.
- Stating again and again that Djodref is his top scum read, yet not even seeming remotely interested in pushing a Djod lynch.
- Being suggestive about other people's behaviour as scummy, yet not seeming to believe it himself.
##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake
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And now it seems Cheese has left for dinner right after I accuse him but before I have time to vote him.
What does everyone else think about Mr. Cheese then?
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I've been focusing too much on Cheese for the last hour or so, I'll look at what has happened so far because the last few posts make no sense at all to me(I don't understand the context).
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Oh I see, you're talking about Djod being afk.
I agree with debears here, I don't understand why you wouldn't make a case against Djod just because he left. If you thought he was the most likely to be scum, you should have went for it.
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Anyone going to even consider Cheese or at least point out if I'm wrong about something? If you truly think Clarity was just blending in, then why should Cheese be excused? Clarity is at least pushing someone he has stated was his top scum read. Cheese just wants to wait for more information without even having to commit to a vote? Come on.
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EBWOP: Among his top scum reads.
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On November 05 2012 07:31 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:53 debears wrote:
Besides stating the obvious, do you agree with me or djo on this? Now, debears calls everyone usless one way or the other so that's a null tell, but I just found this and I can't tell if this makes scumteam debears/djo more or less likely? After this there are a bunch of instances of one following the other. It's rather interesting that he asked me to pick between him and djo, rather than asking me if Cheese's joke is a null tell or not. Am I just getting paranoid now? I need fresh eyes. I think debears was right for calling you out there. I don't particularly agree that you needed to take a stance there, or that him wanting you to take a stance was anything but a null tell. But I can appreciate him wanting an actual opinion other than something to the effect of "wow, isn't that interesting" and nothing else.
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On November 05 2012 07:33 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
I don't think there's a way for me to comment on cheese without screwing myself over. I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1, but people clearly think so since it's the lynchpin (lol) of the cases on me. I'd say there is. If you get lynched as town, the best thing we have to go on is your (then confirmed) honesty.
I honestly couldn't tell you if commenting will make everyone else more or less likely to vote for you, or less/more likely to vote for debears, who you seem convinced is scum. But that's forum mafia for you. I guess it depends on what you actually think.
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How about him not actually pushing his top scum read then?
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EPT
