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On October 23 2012 07:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:49 marvellosity wrote:
What happened to "I just wanna lynch someone", dear?
Are you actually finding vader less scummy now or are you just going back on your policy because you're feeling capricious? I want to lynch someone. I actually deleted the part of that post where there are 4 someones I'm willing to lynch and start copy pasting the blood for the blood god bit for fun. Right now I'm poking. Poking helps me figure out which of my 4 I want to push, because just going "I WILL LYNCH ANYONE FROM THESE 4" seems suboptimal.
First and last time I'm going to mention this, hopefully. You know it was these silly games you play that were a quite large part of me telling you you played badly in Looney, don't you? The reason I liked your filter earlier was because the games were absent.
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On October 23 2012 08:14 austinmcc wrote:
marv, what is YOUR read on drazak atm.
You were townie earlier, but hapa "has the right idea with his drazak and v7 post." You seem to think v7 threw fuel on the fire, and is scummier for that. What about drazak's odd defenses?
Right idea, but I zeroed in on the vader bit because that's who I specifically think comes off worse from that set of pages. Actually this post from drazak gives me a more townie feel:
On October 23 2012 04:50 drazak wrote:
Not to defend hapa too much, but I know when I've read things, I think different things whehter or not I'm hungry, or if other things are going on in my life, maybe he reconsidered after reading something again.
It looks like in his own way he's trying to defuse things.
On the flip side of this, it points to the fact he was present in the thread for a while and not making any actual further contributions of his own. Which should be scummy, except... after the last game he played when he was lynched Day 1, he spoke to me on IRC about his play and why he'd been lynched. And he got lynched because he wasn't pushing reads and contributing, although it seemed to me at the time when I was talking to him that for whatever reason he didn't *quite* grasp it; so it's possible to make the argument that he should have learnt from this, but I rather think that it's simply consistent with how he's played as town before. I don't want to lynch drazak today, I still lean town.
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On October 23 2012 09:41 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:38 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: if ZB is scum, hammering totally makes sense, no matter how bad it is and how much it puts him in the spotlight. Unless he can convince everyone else of a stronger candidate than himself or v7, which I don't think he could, one of them was probably going to die. Might as well take out the townie, and then let people play WIFOM games of "why would scum make a terrible hammer". So, I'm paranoid and I usually think things like this. However, IF he was going to take out a townie and play WIFOM games, then I would expect him to do that. Instead, you pounce on him, and he pretty quickly looks through your filter and finds that quote about dumb hammers. If he were scum wanting to WIFOM, I would expect him to WIFOM. Instead, he seems to have gone to look at the filter of his attacker, and bring up something specific to you where you said you weren't concerned about dumb hammers. i.e. he's concerned with your attack on him, rather than WIFOMing the scumminess of his hammer.
What would you consider optimal scum play in Z-Bo's situation?
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post-flip and with Kei's accusations, I mean.
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bwaha, ninjad you :p (by my own lack of clarity)
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On October 23 2012 09:54 austinmcc wrote:
Ninjaed.
Optimum play. To me optimum play would be the thing that makes you seem most townie, and so it would be pretty close to what Z-Bo did, lol. Going to the accuser's filter, remembering some inconsistency between a previous post and the current stance, bringing it up. Then...probably either continuing to push that, to undermine the guy who is accusing me, or possibly get a scumbuddy to step in and help out (I'm not scum bee tee dubs).
What I'd EXPECT from scum wouldn't be the most super optimal play though. I'd expect the WIFOM, or this argument that I'm bringing up, or something else.
So Z-Bo isn't scum because the way he hammered was suboptimal, but you wouldn't expect scum Z-Bo to play optimally in that situation? Why wouldn't you expect optimal play?
you can see what i'm getting at here, and i'm doing terribly at explaining it.
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Aren't you saying you don't think Z-Bo is scum because the way he hammered was suboptimal?
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I'm confusing myself now.
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On October 23 2012 10:00 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:59 marvellosity wrote:
Aren't you saying you don't think Z-Bo is scum because the way he hammered was suboptimal? I don't think he's scum because the hammer seems like suboptimal play. Then his response feels very townie/the optimal play for scum.
Ok, so if he were scum, it would be the grossly suboptimal play followed by the optimal play, and those things don't mesh is what you're saying?
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Right yes, that was the question. I was reading your suboptimal/optimal considerations as inconsistent, but actually they make sense and I'm pretty happy with that. Obviously I should have left this optimal/suboptimal stuff back in Clothes :x
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iamp, living up to his name like a baws.
DP, do you think this post is faked then?
It's only a little thing but his "go away, shoo" makes me think he's town. If he was playing the angry scum act, that would be so out of place. I'm inclined to think that Z-Bo is town and just derped with what he splurged on the thread in his hammer vote.
The meta you're bringing up - you're neglecting to take into account that the stuff you're quoting was like Day 4 in a full-sized normal vs Day 1 in a mini. This leads to significant differences in the sureness of reads and what someone pushes. I for one know I play significantly more strongly in a Day 4 than a Day 1 (well. later in the game let's say. normally i'm dead)
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I've been waiting for my chance to use it.
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Why would he moderate himself as scum? Those dots don't connect. "Go away, shoo" is so offbeat.
The main reason I think Z-Bo is probably town is actually from this post:
On October 23 2012 09:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well, well, you are quick to pounce.
I found the probability of him lying greater than the one of him telling the truth and playing like he is. He's had forever to contribute.
99.99% you say?
I think you just very well claimed scum here really. Even if I was scum, a townie wouldn't have so much certainty on that fact with my filter, especially with the entirety of your case solely residing on my stance of v7. You are just fake-tunneling hard now, my friend.
This was extremely close to my thoughts when I saw Kei go at him. The fact he was thinking the same thing as me is a good sign. The tell is made softer by the fact he was the one under attack (i.e. if anyone else had said it I'd find it a really strong town tell), but I nodded as I read it, so *shrug*. I'd say he's town.
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DP dear, don't be so predictable. The reasoning behind it.
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Yep, I think Kei is scum. He did nothing for 60-70 hours, and then at some point he just looked at Z-Bo's filter and found an inconsistency. Now he's on to him like a bulldog. I find the leap of certainty totes forced, given the nature of the hammer which I found weird as shit but not really scummy. Kei has decided he's latched on to Z-Bo as his scumread and that'll be how he 'contributes' for Day 2.
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Also, if you speak to me like that again DP, I'll slap you in the face.
<3
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On October 23 2012 10:56 Keirathi wrote:
Man marv, if you're town your reads are fucking terrible this game. No offense.
uh huh.
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when have you ever known me to apologise?
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On October 23 2012 11:01 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:59 marvellosity wrote:
when have you ever known me to apologise? When have you ever been so wrong before (assuming you are town. which i'm not totally convinced of, ofc)? Certainly not in any game that I've played with you. I've literally never seen you make such a weak case, so if you believe that strongly in it, I'll expect that apology after I flip town.
I think austin actually takes great delight in his post that he's used across multiple games about my wrong reads.
I do find it interesting though that you characterise any case against you, by anyone really, as weak, lazy, *insert word here*.
If you can show me you're town, I'll reconsider my read. Hell, I even gave Palmar in Rock Band a chance. This hammer shit is NOT it.
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EPT
