EPTI'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.
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Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 4
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debears
United States2516 Posts
I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out. ##Unvote | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
##unvote | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote: @debears You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard" Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard. You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day. You are advocating chaos. If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything. ##FoS debears Do you see the contradiction in that statment clarity/ You want town to be decisive, yet when I am (by pursuing a scumread) you FOS me for it? Are you reading the damn thread? The confidence thing isn't my only contribution. Figure it out Ugh Djo Y u answering questions addressed to me??? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Where are you/????????? Your involvement in this game is drastically different than last. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Ah alright. One more question. Are 1,2 and 3 necessarily only mafia motivated? I don't see it. 1) Town - Create an ideal town atmosphere Mafia - Appear to be a town doing so 2) Town - Try to lead the town by being a figure who knows what he's doing Mafia - Try to be town doing that 3) Town - Confirmation Bias Mafia - Mafia Bias???? (lol idk what to call it) I'm going to reread the thread tonight. I do feel that it my case has confirmation bias at this point. No one has tried to actually break up the argument or put any real input into it. Mafia tend to love letting two townies go at it and not interfering. I'll reconsider my judgment | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
In response to this rad On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote: This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo 1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch. 2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information). 3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have. All of these things feel scummy to me. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
We'll see what a reread or two of the thread brings | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Defending Me/Town read on me Here Djo restates an answer that I had already posted to a question addressed to me On October 25 2012 13:18 Djodref wrote: @Rad Debears solved us the game last time (NMM XVIII) with his case on SDM, the last mafia player we had to find. He was going to be mislynched but he didn't gave up and was still looking for the last mafia while he had everyone against him. It's important to believe in your ability to find the mafia. If not, you are just going to look desperate if people start a bandwagon against you. Also it is going to reduce your tendency to sheep and I think that sheeping happens a lot in the newbie games although it is really bad for town. Why is Djo defending me at this point? There is no way he can have a town read on me at that point, unless he is scum and he knows I'm town. Think about it 1) Town do not know who is scum. Since they don't know who is, they won't know if they are defending a scum early game 2) He feels the urge to jump to my defense way early in the game when I am answering the questions myself 2) He is restating what I had already said. I had already mentioned the SDM case from last game. Yet, he feels the need to bring it up again to defend me. Later, Clarity makes a post accusing me On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote: @Clarity I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch. By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ? What do you think of Inig ? Djo once agains heads to my defense. Note that Djo has not stated anywhere yet that he has a town read on me. Finally, he defends me in his 2 next posts with a somewhat townie read On October 26 2012 01:27 Djodref wrote: Guys, please remind that people who are taking strong stances (or weird stances like Roco) stand out. Mafia players usually don't want to stand out. Right now, I'm not very worried about a scum debears or a scum Rad. I would be more worried about a scum Inig for expample. The kind of players who are in the thread without really participating, if you know what I mean... Not worried about me being scum = at least a null read on me. The next post. On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote: I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game  I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time. debears <3 Now, he finally states he has "townie vibes", yet he has been defending me since well early on. And then he backs his defense of me as retribution for last game. Defending himself for no reason with bad reasoning? That's scummy. Now, see what happens to the town read he has at this point been 1) exemplifying thru his defense of me and 2) by the last two posts I quoted. On October 26 2012 01:57 Djodref wrote: @Rad Last game newbie game I was totally wrong with all my reads. But I'm not going to let it affect my faith in my ability to find scum. Moreover, even if I'm wrong, I'm giving mafia less room to hide if I take strong a clear stances about some players. I don't have strong scumread at the moment but I would prefer to confront people in a very direct way if I start to be suspicious of them. Because that's how I think I can generate the most useful information. It seems natural for you but it wasn't at all in my previous newbie game, so I want to encourage people to have this state of mind. This is all I'm thinking about when I'm talking about confidence (so it's not exactly confidence in your reads). On a side note, if you have understood that I've called debears town, I think you have misinterpreted my post. Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town. It's a feeling I have from I read in his post (similar to the last game we have played together where he was townie) and his general behavior in his game. Believe or not, being aggressive like this early game benefits town. Because it allows us to have constructed discussion... "Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean??????? So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia. A Quick turn in opinion on Rad Before my Rad case, here's what Djo had to say On October 25 2012 15:48 Djodref wrote: @debears I've re-read the thread and I think that dandel and Rad are strong supporters of policy lynches for lurking. It's not a scumtell for me. I understand that you could be strongly against policy lynches given our experience ^^ The problem I see with this is people getting lazy and rely on a policy lynch for today. That's why I personally think it would be better to bring up the possibility for a policy lynch when we can tell for sure that lurking is plaguing us. This is his very next post On October 25 2012 17:20 Djodref wrote: Nice case, I need to discuss a little more with rad before voting him. So now, he suddenly thinks that Rad's stance on policy is a scum tell? He doesn't cite any parts of my case. Yet, he is thinking about voting Rad. Note - "I need to discuss a little more with rad before voting him" implies that he found scumminess in Rad enough to think of voting Rad. And guess what? He doesn't really talk to Rad. He goes off on Ini and Roco while talking to Dauoud. Instead, he posts this later On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote: @sylver I've explained why I've answered this question ("are you mafia") already. Could you please re-read my filter and tell me if you are satisfied or not with my explanations ? I don't care if I look clean or not, my principal concern is to find the mafia. And, for your information, I'm not tunneling you, just putting you under some pressure. The only player I have a FoS on is Inig as for now. I'm accepting your explanations and I would like you to tell us what you think about Inig. I'm insisting on him because mafia players have this tendency to semi-lurk while looking like they contribute. Regarding Rad, I'm trusting debears to take care of him right now ^^ I'm following their exchanges with great interest. He's "trusting me to take care of Rad". Wow. Why the disinterest in pursuing him? Why is he willing to lay back and let me take the reins on accusing him? Why would a townie want another townie to "take care of" pursuing someone? Scum, on the other hand, want townies to do the dirty work for them. Another thing - the word trust implies that Djo thinks or knows I'm town. The Scumslip On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote: daoud Good ! I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town What's your take on the Rad-debears argument by the way? Note how different his approach to Dauod is to me? He willingly defends me, yet doesn't want to defend dauod. Why? Here he implies that Dauod is town early in the game. He plays it off as bad word choice, yet there are other things in his filter that imply extra information. Notably, the stuff I mentioned before on his actions which indicate that he thinks/knows I'm town despite him claiming that he doesn't think I'm town. FOS Djo Djo, what do you have to say. Most importantly on the subject of your actions which indicate that you think/know i'm town yet you saying that you don't think I am | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Do you believe that Inig fits the category of lurker? His filter is less than a page. On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote: Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. Djo, why would Alsn be able to come up with something consistent if he thought you were scum? This sounds like scum with a guilty conscience. Scum know they are guilty. Their posts are made with the intention to mislead town, meaning that they know that traces of their deception are in their own posts. If you were townie, you would feel that your filter is not filled with scummy things, since you would be honest and sincere. This post definitely does not give that read of honesty. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Yeah, his recent activity is coming off scummy as is his early play as shown in my case. Let's hear what he has to say. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On the point of djos "townie vibes". Why would he defend me if he thought i wasnt town, which he stated after he stated he had townie vibes on me? @rad I knew you were including that part . I still don't see that part as necessarily scummy. A townie could say that he doesnt care because he honestly doesn't care about a fos. A scum has a pretty equal chance of saying the same. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
@Inig Get in here and discuss Djo's case on you | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
@Kush Welcome! I'll read over your case on dauod and look at his filter. Also, I would like your thoughts on my case and Rad's case on Djo. Right now, I see two scumslips by Djo (read the case). Also, Djo is a player that I believe if fully capable of being active as scum. The cases are both around the modkill time for Clarity. @Alsn and Slyverfyre While I agree that Djo is suspicious, what I find alarming is how neither of you mention the cases that Rad and I laid out on him. Your reasoning seems weak at a first glance. I will reread though and see if I'm missing something. Meanwhile, look over the cases on Djo by me and rad. @Djo I have some thoughts on Alsn and Inig right now, as well as some things I need to talk about with you on my case on you. Give me a little bit and I'll have it posted | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On Alsn The main part of Alsn's case is his meta and his FOS on you. In terms of meta, Alsn has not been fitting his activity and involvement of the last game when he was town. However, he has stated suitable IRL reasons and has recently picked up his activity level with his active discussion with others. Right now, his meta is a null tell. Then, with the FOS. I believe his FOS was suitable. He was wishy washy quite a bit last game. It seems to me more indicative of his looking at both sides of the motivation behind posts. Alsn is a null read right now. I expect him to pick up his activity level day 2. If he doesn't, then we can do something about it. Lynching him today is a poor option. | ||
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