EPTHey Toad, I happen to like you and like reading what you have to say. Don't give up and crap out.
I'm off to school, I'll be back later. Good luck town. Please lynch scum. Thanks.
TL Mafia LVIII - Page 176
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Hey Toad, I happen to like you and like reading what you have to say. Don't give up and crap out. I'm off to school, I'll be back later. Good luck town. Please lynch scum. Thanks. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
GOD DAMNIT | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9640 Posts
I would rather lynch debars or mr.cc first in light of replacement | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Vote Cheesecake Now let's talk about Toadesstern, since you guys are ignoring him. These are the posts with regards to his view on Palmar that I will be referring to: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 02:10 Toadesstern wrote: ##vote Palmar Let's get this going. Town palmar can be a dick, Town palmar can and will be very much trollish, Town palmar however won't do everything that's possible to make it sure it's hard for town to get reads on people or to even read the thread. That's something not-Town Palmar does. Get lynching guys. On January 04 2013 03:48 Toadesstern wrote: Arkham City: Palmars filter And well about the first statement. I obviously can't prove he doesn't do that as town because that's impossible. Thing is I haven't seen him doing anything this extreme as town, and I've seen him a couple of times. Gosh you're wasting my time I'm off to McD for half an hour. On January 04 2013 04:40 Toadesstern wrote: and I'm not paranoid. I'm gauging the situation :p Though I really am not sure what to make of Palmar, which is troublesome. So what do we see here - Toad is voting for Palmar on some sort of meta read, but has absolutely no desire to explain it beyond "Palmar isn't like this is town. this is not-town Palmar". What motivations could a town Toad have for not willing to explain in detail why the person he's voting for should be lynched? He could either have an inherent dislike for explaining his thoughts or it could be a pressure vote (It's clear that this is not a pressure vote based on how quickly Toad drops the whole thing). At the same time, Toad has no problems with complaining about how marv won't share his thinking with him, so it's very unlikely that Toad doesn't like to explain his thoughts on his lynch target. So then the simplest explanation is that Toad is mafia and does not want to share his reasoning because he simply has nothing substantial. On January 04 2013 06:00 Toadesstern wrote: seriously what's wrong with people this game. I asked you why you'd want to lynch into the guy in particular because I wouldn't be that comfortable lynching into him myself. I get that I might be a bit less on the serious side this game but I'm not being an ass here. You answered the question and that's all there is to it. I never said you're bad or scummy or anything for approaching the situation the way you are, I merely wanted to hear your thoughts about it and yet again I'm getting this kind of "piss off" answer from someone, I haven't figured you out yet, which is the reason I'm asking for your reasoning... that's not complaining at other people as far as I'm concerned. At the same time, the speed with which Toad's view on Palmar changes should be highly concerning. At 2:10, Toad is voting for Palmar and calling him very likely "not-town". Yet just 2.5 hours later, Toad suddenly is unsure about Palmar (It should be noted that Palmar has posted nothing in this time frame beyond expressing a slight doubt of Toad) and seems ready to back off. What could possibly cause this shift - at this time, I'm questioning Toad on his reasoning and supersoft is calling Toad paranoid and saying Palmar will absolutely not be lynched. Yet, Toad's response isn't to loudly refute us (which would be the normal drama queen toad reaction), but instead something that smells much more strongly of mafia - avoiding discussion and instead attempting to quitely appease others. Now let's look at the way that Toad treats Viscera (relevant quotes are in the spoiler): + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 03:49 Toadesstern wrote: d1. We're lynching marv right now, mostly because Palmar said so and people like Supersoft and myself agree about it. Alternatives would be a policy lynch on WBG, A lynch on me because I'm weird according to VE (?) A lynch on BC because... I don't know hard to tell... I agree he's not looking good but I wouldn't be comfortable lynching him A lynch on VE for doing stuff other people want to do ALL THE TIME On January 05 2013 05:46 Toadesstern wrote: I really think any kind of lynch between Marv / BC / Hopeless / maybe VE would be awesome right now. But Palmars the man and he says it's Marv and not the other 3 guys, so Marv it is. On January 04 2013 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: the interessting thing, if at all is VE's vote. Though VE and I have somewhat of a history so it's really hard to get something out of that... I don't mind foolish to be honest. On January 05 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote: VE is problematic and plays somewhat anti-town no matter of alignment. Palmar once said that VE is one of the strongest mafia-aligned-forces no matter of alignment, resulting in town being at a disadvantage no matter what. That was before he started playing better. Nevertheless he's VERY eratic. He's either good or completly moronic. Pretty much nothing inbetween, which makes it hard to judge him. I've got a history with him because he'll probably tell you that I consider him scummy every game I play with him, no matter of our alignments, even if we're both mafia :3 So basicly you won't find a game of VE in which he's not strange, not a single one. The question is wether that strange is something bad strange. On January 06 2013 07:00 Toadesstern wrote: I'm going to make a bold statement here: I don't think I'm going to get doublestacked n1 again. I really don't think mafia will shoot me, but I might have overdone it a little because apparently there's a bunch of paranoid people who might be willing to shoot me. I'm mainly looking at hopeless, Ex-Tunk (?) and VE here. Tunk is unlikely simply because he replaced out but who knows. Hopeless could end up shooting me and if he does it's probably a townie-move although being utterly retarded because I really don't see mafia wasting KP on me this game, this early on, especially with Marv flipping town. If VE shoots me it's a null I guess... he'd be crazy enough to do that as both alignments and to claim it as both alignments. If he's mafia he could easily be sitting in his QT yelling <i>"look guys, if I shoot Toad and claim 10 secs prior to deadline I'll totally look like a misguided townie and with me yelling at Toad 10 times d1 I have all the reasoning to shoot him while making me look VE-ish!"</i>. I however could also see him do the same thing as town so no idea about him. I guess the best thing is to see who get's shot at deadline, that should give as some hints because right now it's really confusing within the vets. And I really hope possible vigs end up claiming prior to deadline. That's all that's relevant for this particular deadline from my point of view. I'm playing some zelda and will get onto more important things tomorrow. On January 10 2013 00:46 Toadesstern wrote: On the offchance that I'm pulling a WBG here, I'd rather not vote Debears. Who's an option besides him? I somewhat want VE dead, I somewhat want foolish dead but have no idea what's the status with his logs. Throughout his filter, Toad is clamoring for VE to be lynched on absolutely nothing (read it, you won't find a single reason for why VE might be mafia). Everything about his tone and attitude (specifically the constant double-talk where multiple explanations are given for VE's behavior but no real opinion is ever taken) suggest that Toad regards VE as some sort of oddity, not a prime lynch candidate. So then why is Toad pushing for VE to be lynched all the time? It's simply a baseless mafia push - Toad is content to throw dirt at VE without ever trying to really convince others. I'll be around for another half an hour, so talk to me right now please. Viscera, I would very much appreciate it if I could talk with you. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
VE is completely on speed since he got confirmed and votes all over the place. when i get home i'll decide whether we lynch Palmar or not. Today we lynch scum and not idiots. facts will decide. This is no witch-hunt. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On January 10 2013 01:49 VisceraEyes wrote: This might be the very first time I woke up to less than 40 posts to read. :/ Palmar and Toad can absolutely die. DIE. Naysayers. CHARLATANS! They're not reading the therad. Verily, they don't care to catch up or find scum. Palmar requested that we lynch him instead of vig him. Let's oblige him. ##Unvote: debears ##Vote: Palmar Hello VisceraEyes. Go back and read the logs with iamperfection, and look at my spreadsheet from day 1. Then come back and explain to me why I am scum. Yes I'm not doing anything, you know how much I hate having one of those dumb off games. I do care about finding scum, which is why I'm holding off my vote until I can make a decision (we still have like 30 hours right?). You need to explain why you think I'm scum so I can analyse your thought process. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:03 HiroPro wrote: We're going to lynch Cheesecake. I don't care whether you guys think that he is so inconsiderate that he would abandon one game completely to join another one. He is around, he is avoiding being modkilled by voting, but refusing to do anything at all so you have to lynch him. ##Vote Cheesecake Now let's talk about Toadesstern, since you guys are ignoring him. These are the posts with regards to his view on Palmar that I will be referring to: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 02:10 Toadesstern wrote: ##vote Palmar Let's get this going. Town palmar can be a dick, Town palmar can and will be very much trollish, Town palmar however won't do everything that's possible to make it sure it's hard for town to get reads on people or to even read the thread. That's something not-Town Palmar does. Get lynching guys. On January 04 2013 03:48 Toadesstern wrote: Arkham City: Palmars filter And well about the first statement. I obviously can't prove he doesn't do that as town because that's impossible. Thing is I haven't seen him doing anything this extreme as town, and I've seen him a couple of times. Gosh you're wasting my time I'm off to McD for half an hour. On January 04 2013 04:40 Toadesstern wrote: and I'm not paranoid. I'm gauging the situation :p Though I really am not sure what to make of Palmar, which is troublesome. So what do we see here - Toad is voting for Palmar on some sort of meta read, but has absolutely no desire to explain it beyond "Palmar isn't like this is town. this is not-town Palmar". What motivations could a town Toad have for not willing to explain in detail why the person he's voting for should be lynched? He could either have an inherent dislike for explaining his thoughts or it could be a pressure vote (It's clear that this is not a pressure vote based on how quickly Toad drops the whole thing). At the same time, Toad has no problems with complaining about how marv won't share his thinking with him, so it's very unlikely that Toad doesn't like to explain his thoughts on his lynch target. So then the simplest explanation is that Toad is mafia and does not want to share his reasoning because he simply has nothing substantial. At the same time, the speed with which Toad's view on Palmar changes should be highly concerning. At 2:10, Toad is voting for Palmar and calling him very likely "not-town". Yet just 2.5 hours later, Toad suddenly is unsure about Palmar (It should be noted that Palmar has posted nothing in this time frame beyond expressing a slight doubt of Toad) and seems ready to back off. What could possibly cause this shift - at this time, I'm questioning Toad on his reasoning and supersoft is calling Toad paranoid and saying Palmar will absolutely not be lynched. Yet, Toad's response isn't to loudly refute us (which would be the normal drama queen toad reaction), but instead something that smells much more strongly of mafia - avoiding discussion and instead attempting to quitely appease others. Now let's look at the way that Toad treats Viscera (relevant quotes are in the spoiler): + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 03:49 Toadesstern wrote: d1. We're lynching marv right now, mostly because Palmar said so and people like Supersoft and myself agree about it. Alternatives would be a policy lynch on WBG, A lynch on me because I'm weird according to VE (?) A lynch on BC because... I don't know hard to tell... I agree he's not looking good but I wouldn't be comfortable lynching him A lynch on VE for doing stuff other people want to do ALL THE TIME On January 05 2013 05:46 Toadesstern wrote: I really think any kind of lynch between Marv / BC / Hopeless / maybe VE would be awesome right now. But Palmars the man and he says it's Marv and not the other 3 guys, so Marv it is. On January 04 2013 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: the interessting thing, if at all is VE's vote. Though VE and I have somewhat of a history so it's really hard to get something out of that... I don't mind foolish to be honest. On January 05 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote: VE is problematic and plays somewhat anti-town no matter of alignment. Palmar once said that VE is one of the strongest mafia-aligned-forces no matter of alignment, resulting in town being at a disadvantage no matter what. That was before he started playing better. Nevertheless he's VERY eratic. He's either good or completly moronic. Pretty much nothing inbetween, which makes it hard to judge him. I've got a history with him because he'll probably tell you that I consider him scummy every game I play with him, no matter of our alignments, even if we're both mafia :3 So basicly you won't find a game of VE in which he's not strange, not a single one. The question is wether that strange is something bad strange. On January 06 2013 07:00 Toadesstern wrote: I'm going to make a bold statement here: I don't think I'm going to get doublestacked n1 again. I really don't think mafia will shoot me, but I might have overdone it a little because apparently there's a bunch of paranoid people who might be willing to shoot me. I'm mainly looking at hopeless, Ex-Tunk (?) and VE here. Tunk is unlikely simply because he replaced out but who knows. Hopeless could end up shooting me and if he does it's probably a townie-move although being utterly retarded because I really don't see mafia wasting KP on me this game, this early on, especially with Marv flipping town. If VE shoots me it's a null I guess... he'd be crazy enough to do that as both alignments and to claim it as both alignments. If he's mafia he could easily be sitting in his QT yelling <i>"look guys, if I shoot Toad and claim 10 secs prior to deadline I'll totally look like a misguided townie and with me yelling at Toad 10 times d1 I have all the reasoning to shoot him while making me look VE-ish!"</i>. I however could also see him do the same thing as town so no idea about him. I guess the best thing is to see who get's shot at deadline, that should give as some hints because right now it's really confusing within the vets. And I really hope possible vigs end up claiming prior to deadline. That's all that's relevant for this particular deadline from my point of view. I'm playing some zelda and will get onto more important things tomorrow. On January 10 2013 00:46 Toadesstern wrote: On the offchance that I'm pulling a WBG here, I'd rather not vote Debears. Who's an option besides him? I somewhat want VE dead, I somewhat want foolish dead but have no idea what's the status with his logs. Throughout his filter, Toad is clamoring for VE to be lynched on absolutely nothing (read it, you won't find a single reason for why VE might be mafia). Everything about his tone and attitude (specifically the constant double-talk where multiple explanations are given for VE's behavior but no real opinion is ever taken) suggest that Toad regards VE as some sort of oddity, not a prime lynch candidate. So then why is Toad pushing for VE to be lynched all the time? It's simply a baseless mafia push - Toad is content to throw dirt at VE without ever trying to really convince others. I'll be around for another half an hour, so talk to me right now please. Viscera, I would very much appreciate it if I could talk with you. You kind of forgot the hole Mason deal, didn't you? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:10 HiroPro wrote: That was way after what I'm discussing. that was the reason I said Palmar is town. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:06 Palmar wrote: Hello VisceraEyes. Go back and read the logs with iamperfection, and look at my spreadsheet from day 1. Then come back and explain to me why I am scum. Yes I'm not doing anything, you know how much I hate having one of those dumb off games. I do care about finding scum, which is why I'm holding off my vote until I can make a decision (we still have like 30 hours right?). You need to explain why you think I'm scum so I can analyse your thought process. your patience scares me, Palmar. you know there is no thought process besides: "Oh look at the last 3 posts! he looks like he refuses to scumhunt." | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
i could really use some help here... | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
there is no case - is there? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:14 supersoft wrote: your patience scares me, Palmar. you know there is no thought process besides: "Oh look at the last 3 posts! he looks like he refuses to scumhunt." There is a marked difference between not scumhunting and refusing to scumhunt. I am very unsure in my reads this game so I've kinda resorted to just coasting by until I can make sense of this mess. There's too many players I'm unsure about and would want to lynch into and I'm afraid that whatever options may be presented can be too easily manipulated by the significant portion of town that is on the scum side now. I am for example reading up on debears this game. I don't know how experienced he is, but if he is playing scum he's doing a pretty good job at it. His thought process seems to somewhat match what he did back in hero mafia (I am currently comparing the two filters), and it seems pretty ballsy to go out on a limb co-trolling with chezinu. Not to mention that last game he played as scum (SK i yet another mini mafia) he adopted a pretty serious personality that contrasts somewhat with what he's doing here. I'm not ready to call him a town read but I'm not sure I'll support lynching him. Also if he's mafia was being intentionally oblivious of how mafia KP work and what they can do: On January 03 2013 17:16 debears wrote: Btw guys something to note If we have a mason, if you talk to someone starting day 1, you are confirmed town to that player. Mafia do not get powers til night 1 I believe This seems like a pretty genuine advice. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Palmar most of my read of you is based on your refusal to do anything for the last couple cycles. You're still alive, which if you're town is like...unfathomable, but meh - considering the wagons on D1, that's not super crazy. I've read the logs, but because you didn't follow up with any kind of activity on subsequent days... Whatever I'll go read them again. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:26 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not taking anything regarding what people say are the rules as tells - the rules were unclear in the OP and so that's a null point. But the intention behind the post is to help confirm townies. Why even mention it if he's scum. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:26 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not taking anything regarding what people say are the rules as tells - the rules were unclear in the OP and so that's a null point. thats true, you never know how much intel the scumteam had at day1. it's highly likely that they havn't thought about masons until i started the mason discussion. i am like 90% sure that they have no mason. consequently debears statement doesnt confirm him like your rage did to you. obviously you would know how the kp work, a player like debears at day1 i am not sure... | ||
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