EPTLooney Lynching Mini Mafia
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On October 10 2012 14:27 EchelonTee wrote: Hey guys, been a while. I agree with what Sandroba has been saying thus far. While I see the sensibility of HiroPro's plan (everyone votes on each matchup, 1 vote max), there are a few issues with it (which sandroba has stated somewhat). 1. It gives "credibility" to people who are knocked out early, while not forcing them to do anything significant. A good good good example of this problem was in Liar Game 1. Basically half of the people were immune to the lynch depending on a Yes or No vote; while town tried to make the immune people accountable for their actions, because they have no fear of the lynch they really have no pressure on them to do anything at all. A hilarious example is sandroba himself; despite being widely called scum since D1, because he was immune to lynch through flukes, he stayed alive for days manipulating people here and there. If we force everyone to vote on everything, the knocked out people can make random reasons for their votes and look active. However, if we don't force everyone to vote on everything, knocked out people will have to talk about things on their own prerogative, exposing their true intentions. 2. It will lead to a bunch of laundry lists of "analysis" which doesn't help anything. If people have to vote on 7+ matchups, while it will put a bunch of content into the thread, it gives an easy out for mafia to look "active". All they have to do is say something like "I like persons X, Y, and Z because of yada yada yada. I don't like person M because he only voted for 4 matchups! What's he hiding??". Basically, this plan would put a huge flood of info without much actual substance. 3. This diffuses the town's vote, making it easier for scum to do as they please. Remember, the vote is the town's strongest tool; we out number mafia's votes 9x. However if townsfolk are forced to only have one vote per matchup, then if they see someone they really think is scummy, they won't be "allowed" to stack more votes on them because of this limitation. Overall, while I do like the initiative to give structure to the voting process, ultimately I think it does more harm than good. What should happen is standard, good old fashioned scum-hunting; people should just up and state who they think is scum and put their votes to back it up. Speaking of which: Please feel free to post things of substance. You're being needlessly dismissive, which is strange because 1. it's very early in the game, people ask questions 2. you haven't done anything, so to put down someone else just feels off. It's been a decent amount of time in the game and you've shown that you're available; why not comment on the setup at all? I don't want you having a free pass for the rest of this tourny; I want to see you talk more. Hopeless1der 2x On October 10 2012 14:32 EchelonTee wrote: Not going to put my vote into voting thread just yet, until I'm sure of all votes for this round, to make things easier for kita. Is the ratio of town:mafia known, or unknown? Guy, I wanted you to be town, why did you have to scum slip. For those that didn't catch it, ET implies he knows that how much more votes town has compared to mafia, implying he knows how many mafia there is. Minutes later, he asks if mafia count is known. Where did he get this number in the first place? I don't think he would just make it up out of thin air. EchelonTee x1 | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + @ET 9 to 3 would 3x as many votes BTW | ||
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On October 10 2012 20:40 sandroba wrote: @da0ud Yes, those people are at disavantage. How is that relevant to who is scum or not? @prpl You are my best scum read so far, how do you feel about that <3 @mementoss Don't be stupid. Town# > Mafia# by default. That's the dumbest shit I've read so far and let me tell you there is plenty dumb shit about. He had a specific number in mind, don't be stupid read the quote. Of course town > mafia or we already would have lost. | ||
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On October 10 2012 20:46 sandroba wrote: You don't have to vote anyone right now. You have however many votes you want (max 10). You misrepresented ET impossible ratio quote so somehow he knew the mafia number which we don't know yet so you can vote ET. Yes, that's dumb. why are you so mad/ defensive of 1 vote on ET? I don't have to vote, but Im sure as hell not going to ask your permission who/when to vote. I will vote when I see things that warrant a vote, or to push my scum reads to the next round. | ||
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On October 10 2012 23:40 EchelonTee wrote: I'm not changing my 2 votes from 1der unless something absolutely crazy happens (which it won't); I'm only not putting my votes down now for formatting reasons, nothing more. I do admit it looks strange, if you want to call me scum for that then whatever; the following things I'm going to mention is complete bullcrap in comparison. Asking for a scum/town ratio is not stupid, tyvm. It's common even in closed setups for the specific ratio to be known; I've only played in one game where this isn't the case. Heh, living up to my town meta yet again I suppose. (always get accused when I'm town D1, never get accused when I'm scum). While cute that you would accuse me for appearing to "know more about the setup", there is almost no way that the ratio of votes is actually 9x, as you yourself pointed out. No number is even close to that (either 1:11 or 2:10 doesn't work with normal voting mechanics). Therefore, you are making the assumption that I have to be either blue or red without even considering that maybe, just maybe I put down that 9x number randomly? Unless you really think that I am such a poor player that I would either 1. reveal my roles knowledge of votes, or 2. blatantly reveal mafia's knowledge of votes. Excuse the language, but that is completely fracking stupid; that 9x number is completely numerically impossible, and the fact that you are using the random number I threw out as reason to be suspicious is absolutely terrible. And you can't even vote for me this round! You are literally misdirecting town on a terrible lead with the reasoning that "shucks this is as good a reason to vote R1 as anything". No, it's a terrible reason, multiplied by the fact that you are wasting our limited 24 hour time on a person you can't vote on. Care to talk about the people we actually need to vote on? IDGAF if you want to tunnel me as long as you also talk about the stuff that actually matters, which you have failed to do. If you think pointing out one thing and placing 1 vote (that didn't even count btw) is tunneling, well, I dont even know what to say. I don't know why everyone is getting so pissy about it. First read it came across scummy and read to me 9 townies, then afterwards I even said the 9x thing. It's not like I tried to force this vote on anyone, with attitude like this your sure to shut out discussion. This is the biggest over reaction I ever seen. | ||
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On October 10 2012 19:48 kushm4sta wrote: voting momentoss because he's afk and I know his reads are bad voting original because austin has contributed way more already and he's known as a good player voting dauod because of his weird joke that made no sense... alien invaders what? bad reasons? yes subject to change? definintely On October 11 2012 00:06 kushm4sta wrote: metaread on momentoss: he is this dumb as town I know that from liquid city. also he will afk for long periods of time so we have that to look forward to. Im not going to get into a shit throwing fight with you. But please stop pretending you know anything about my meta or my activity level as town. You can click my profile if you want to actually look at my meta rather than making shit up. Kk. | ||
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1. Mementoss: Town Hopeless1der: Hasn't really attempted to create any discussion thus far, and is pretty lurky. Most of his content seems to be in aasking questions about the set-up. Only thing worth while he has said for an opinion has been on prplhz for role-fishing. Pretty agressive against prplhz in his first post. Reading null to me right now I hope he starts posting more discussion worthy things. He is already ahead in the voting brack and I don't have a scum read on him. Therefore I have no reason to vote him. 2. OriginalName: Has been active after the game has started and chose not to participate in any discussion. Other than that nothing. Seems pretty scummy. Already ahead by 3 votes, I have no reason to use a vote on him right now. AustinMcc: He seems to be posting openly about his thoughts about the set-up and teh game in general. My meta read on austin is he likes to play the set-up a bit heavily as town. However, he is mostly all set-up posts as of now. It's still early but later I hope he gets a bit more aggressive with his scum hunting. Still looks town to me. Don't need to vote him right now. 3. prplhz: On October 10 2012 20:02 prplhz wrote: Big plans almost always fail but it's often a pretty good idea to talk about them anyway. Is EchelonTee trying to vote for Hopeless1der? I like Djodref's posting and I don't like da0ud's posting. Well, as much as you can like and dislike stuff 2 pages into the game. In any case I'm going to vote for da0ud right now. He's only gonna get one vote from me (for now) because that's enough to put him in next round. da0ud x1 Id like to here his current opinion on this, and expand if he has a scum read on da0ud or if he thinks hes scummy and why. Or was his vote influenced on that he thinks djodref is town? His first post read very strange to me as well, asking about roles. Reading Null to me. Kushy: On October 11 2012 00:28 kushm4sta wrote: I'm putting my votes down now in the voting thread and yes I'm going to vote on every matchup. I prioritize voting bad people over good people just because I think we are more likely to catch a bad scum than a good scum today, also lynching a good town is way worse than lynching bad town. I am also prioritizing voting for afks instead of actives. hopeless1der x1 originalname x1 da0ud x1 I don't understand fluffy explanation lines like this. Just try to find scum and the voting will come. The rest of his filter seems to be worrying about the setup with 1 liners about his confusing and commented on everyones plans about the vote. I have only played 1 game with him, but I find it hard to read him, and don't understand where he is coming from at times. He is currently losing to prphlz, so I am going to put a vote on him in round 1. Reading a tad scummy, but I am not sure with this guy to be honest. 4. On October 11 2012 00:44 Djodref wrote: I'm going to bed now and I'm going to wake up few hours before the first round deadline. I would like to say that I don't like people who are saying they are voting this one and this one but are not using the voting thread. I don't have a clear view on their motivations. So I'm going to show them the way I would like them to follow. This is an example of what I'm not going to do. On a side note, I don't like lurkers as well. ##Vote Memento ×1 original ×1 @hopeless would you mind explaining your gut feeling? Also I've just noticed that Kush ans ET have used the voting thread This feels like an easy way out round 1, to not get discussion going on actual reads. Just saying Im going to vote the lurkers is a pretty lazy way for scum to get through the voting. He calls me a lurker despite having almost the same post count as me at the time of this post. He is currently reading scummy to me and I will put a vote on him despite him being currently in the lead. Du0ad: Opened with an awkward joke post, hasn't said anything so far, lurking hard. I hope to see him join round 1 and get some votes in. Not voting him just because I have a bit of a scum read on djoref. ##Vote: kushm4sta x1 djoref x1 | ||
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On October 11 2012 02:16 EchelonTee wrote: In my experience, if I don't react strongly to accusations, no matter how inane or small, it just bogs down town because people are wasting time talking about me. I'm not mad; I just want to shut down your weak accusations now so that if you are town, we can work together without lingering misconceptions. I'm not seeking to shut down discussion, but I will be extremely dismissive towards cases on me as they are wrong, and in this case bad. This methodology works for me, and my mislynch rate is extremely low; I'll overract if it gets the job down. You'll notice I didn't vote for you. I'm not saying "YOURE DUMB AND YOURE SCUM", I'm saying you're case was misguided and it's time to drop it, now. Good. If you want people to not see you as a policy lynch this is a good start. I'm okay with this, I was just reading it the wrong way I suppose, in a way too defense over the top matter. Clears things up though. But scum can also over react to scare people away from accusing them, or make people feel stupid for doing it. I don't have a scum tell on you any more for it anyways, reading your explanation and the situation. But at least it generated some discussion among a few. I still don't like the way sandropa responded to it, but that seems to be the general attitude in his posting style. | ||
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ON Hopeless Da0 None of them used any votes officially, and all have 10 votes remaining. Coming down to the wire any one of them as scum could sway the results. | ||
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On October 11 2012 20:59 thrawn2112 wrote: If they're scum and that's their plan then they're pretty stupid because they'd be put in the spotlight for doing that. Not all 3, but it is very possible for one of them to be scum, gaining 2 extra votes after the first round could prove to be a great advantage. | ||
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On October 11 2012 22:11 OriginalName wrote: I had a PM from Kita saying "Why you no post" and promptly forgot the modkill rule. Is this your first game? lol, i don't care as long as you can up your activity to an amount where you can be beneficial to the town killing scum. + Show Spoiler + 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. | ||
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And hopeless you look fine with the way you unvoted. I still don't like that particular players will have more influence on the final lynch. | ||
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Thrawn: Playing seems townie to me, hes asking questions where needed. And pushing his own opinions. I'm getting a townie vibe off him. Hopeless: Too much defending himself, not enough provoking discussion or persuing scum reads. Says he doesn't want to give scum reads because of the lynch mechanics and short length of the game. Well if you don't have any scum reads by page 15, you better try to get people talking so you can get something out of them. Something hopeless hasn't attempted. Hopeless also blames lynching mechanics for avoiding scum reads, Its really easy for scum to just discuss matchups and not discuss individual thoughts on the player or try to advance their reads. Right now hopeless seems to be avoiding scumhunting by defending himself from feigning activity. Pretty ironic. I don't need to vote him because hes gunna win this matchup I think. I will vote if I need to. Hopeless leaning scummy. 2. HiroPro I actually can't remember anything he has said or done all game. I wouldn't mind him advancing so the pressure can be on him and he is forced to do something. However, im not willing to use a lot of votes to put him through and his competitor is equally as bad on this front. Null.Honestly don't care who gets through this matchup. OriginalName Lurking pretty hard as well. Only has one post with content so far. But it brings up some pretty decent points. Still he needs more activity into the game, looking forward to what his thoughts are on the other players/matchups. Null. Not voting either. 3. Sandropa: I don't like his posting at all this game. As others have said, most of his posting has been here are my thoughts and gives no reasoning. ET defends him with his meta in this statement: "Sandroba is one of those super strong town players who is comparatively abysmal as a mafia player. When he's mafia, his lack of effort and interest becomes abundantly clear very quickly, sort of like Palmar but even moreso, IMO. Therefore, when he plays mafia I find that he runs active disruption to try and make as much chaos as possible until he inevitably gets shot/lynched. " Which I don't know how ET thinks hes following this, is he reading the same game I am? I think if anything he looks like mafia meta this game, lack of effort and interest seem prevelant in this game, and no attempt to find any scum at all. I would really like him to go through and put some pressure on him to persue some reads. Looks scummy to me. 2 votes. Kushmasta: Posting frequently and openly, I have changed my mind about kush. Althought I usually have a hard time reading him, he seems to be less trolly than usual, and is putting in some effort. If he is scum, he is active enough that we can catch him. 4. ET: Everything about his filter makes me think hes mafia. But maybe Im just reading him completely wrong. He dismisses any comments towards him at all times, hard defends sandroba twice, without real reason or logic to, and is being very sarcastic in the says things to the fact to not get called out on them later. + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 02:45 EchelonTee wrote: Uh I just did right there? When there is suspicion on two parties and we assume that at least one is town, then it means that mafia are pushing a townie successfully? + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 02:53 EchelonTee wrote: Getting lunch and going to classes. Apparently I have to announce my absences or else I'm "lurking away". His posting is pushing a bad town atmosphere and that is scum agenda. As well as some lines in his posts just seem off, like prplhz pointed out. I think hes scummy but I'm not entirely sure this could just be his meta. Im going to put a vote on him. Djodref: No further thoughts from before. Only reason I'm not voting him is because of my views on ET. Votes: Sandropa x2 ET x1 | ||
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On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote: As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 So wait what. Your gunna use up all your votes in the semi finals, so you have no control over who gets lynched? You avoiding responsibility? This seems scum motivated to use 6 votes, scum desperately trying to get 2 townies in the final while avoiding any responsibility from the townie lynch if they successfully do that. | ||
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On October 12 2012 23:33 EchelonTee wrote: How exactly are those posts promoting bad town atmosphere? The first one was an explanation post to prplhz; I'm trying to make my words clear. The second one I admit is negative, but that's because I take offense at being called a lurker, by a lurker. You say that I am being dismissive towards comments on me because I address them and turn them away. What would you like me to do instead? I have been snippy I admit, but you calling me scummy for directly confronting accusations is a bit unreasonable. However, I can tone down my language as I've been promoting a bad atmosphere. Never my intention. The majority of your suspicion seems to be centered around my negativity and my association with sandroba. The former I can address, and the latter is uncertain. We have no idea of sandroba is town or scum. I had an early town tell on sandroba because his ideas lined up with mine; this is what I always do to try and figure out towniness. If I find myself coming to the same conclusion as someone independently, then I feel more comfortable with that player. I might be wrong on sandroba, but I am far more comfortable leaving him for a Day 2 read. However, it's simply not right for people to say "EchelonTee supports sandroba. Since I think sandroba is scum, EchelonTee is also scum". That's making an associative tell before full information is available. Will I get a ton of heat if sandroba flips scum? Yes, and I'd deserve it for making a wrong read. But since we don't have that information yet, I'd appreciate it if people laid off. Condemn me if you see deception in my words, but not for simply stating my opinion on things. I'm trying to make it as open as possible why I had a town tell on sandroba, and that I should be held accountable if he flips scum. I was unclear in my intention of those quotes, I was trying to show your sarcastic manner. Yes part of my suspicions was the interactions between you and sandroba but also the way that everytime you show up you show the need to defend yourself in an over the top manner, and then take off. Its not a huge tell, or big scum read, and thats why I didn't use more votes to push you through the matchup. Obviously, it is not scummy to be wrong about something. But since you are not up for lynch anymore, I will stop pushing you, and hope we have 1 mafia in the final 4 that we can make champion. Prove to me through your actions, not through your defenses. through the rest of the day cycle why you are town. If you are town, lets kill scum, if you are mafia, nothing we can do about it for day 1 at least. | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:24 austinmcc wrote: Mementoss. Pretend for a moment that you're Mementoss this game. (Or, if you don't have to pretend, please let us know). You and your hypothetical scumbuddies are hanging out in QT, discussing how to play out the matchups and how you want to vote and do scummy stuff and whatnot. The following questions come up, as to how each of you wants to do things. How do you respond? Do you guys make sure to sometimes be on opposite sides of a matchup? Or do you not care if 2 scum players vote together the entire way through D1? Say in round 1 or round 2 there's a matchup that you want to influence, one of your scumbuddies is neck and neck with a townie. Do you just vote that matchup? Or do you vote that matchup + 1 or 2 that you don't care about, in order to hide the vote you actually want to make in with some that don't make a difference to you? Is there any particular player you think is a likely D1 mislynch, just looking at player list and like...the first couple pages of the game. If so, who? ET, I'd like to see your answers to those questions as well. You had some setup talk at the beginning that I liked, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about the setup from the perspective of you playing as ET. Okay let me pretend to be mementoss. 1. Don't care. 2. Vote the people acting scummiest in the thread. 3. ON is a likely mislynch for lurking, and kush is a likely mislynch for his meta. (if they are town that is) aka its not hard for scum to put them through without real reasoning I don't understand the purpose of this question though. lol. | ||
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ON: 8 Remain da0: 9 Remain Austin: 9 Remain This^^ this right here is horseshit. Apathetic voting up towards the last round is unacceptable. I think everyone should only be using 5 of there votes 3 of these players alone trump the rest of the players in the game. Sandroba doesn't even have anyvotes to defend himself while ON has 9. Actually, everyone should only be using 1 vote, and we can get some sort of real full out majority going where everyone is involved. For the people with 0 votes left. ##Mementoss vote "Player Name" and I will use one of my votes towards giving you a voice in this lynch. I have a feeling scum has WAY too much control right now. But there is a possibility its too late anyways, this method should give more information to where people are at in their thought process. | ||
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Not sure which way I will be voting today yet. | ||
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On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. how do you get a town read on hiro and austin? | ||
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On October 13 2012 23:21 austinmcc wrote: Why is apathetic voting horseshit? Is horseshit just horseshit, or do you find it to come from a town or scum horse? Why should everyone only be using one vote? Why are you giving out votes to anyone with 0 votes left? I had planned to give away either blocks of 3 or blocks of 4 votes to people I strongly feel are town, but not to ANYONE, and not based on the number of votes they have left. How is having no votes a good criteria for who you want to give more control over the lynch to, instead of using a criteria like your townreads? what how much info are we gunna get when half the people cant vote on the lynch, and the other half have no say in the final decision. The lynch is left up to those 4 players, and since one of them is in the hot seat. He can use 9 votes to save himself. I guess playing as passive as you and not putting any reads on anyone to too late so you don't have to vote and can sheep and holding all your votes is your strategy. I guess thats cool >_>. | ||
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no because no one would co-operate anyways, and although I think sandroba's play has been scummy im not super sure. But if he flips town then we have ON who refuses to post or do anything, and its gunna be a bad time. Overall, I guess im happy with either lynch, lynching someone I have a bit of a scum read on, or lynching a complete lurker. | ||
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On October 14 2012 00:33 kushm4sta wrote: This is a quote from TL Mafia L. Sandroba rolled scum. He's right. I think every game in which Sandroba rolled scum features long periods of afking into an early lynch. What happened to ON? Previously you thought he was the best lynch: Right now I'm thinking that this holiday was merely a convenient excuse. And yeah I don't want to lynch ON for reasons I have already stated and mods have yelled at me for bringing up. Sandroba x1 Not like my 1 vote even matters though. kush your 1 vote matters to me man | ||
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On October 14 2012 00:53 kushm4sta wrote: MEMENTOSS hypothetically ON could be replaced right? Wouldn't that solve the problem? Yeah it would, but the hosts don't seem to keen on it so Im not sure. | ||
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On October 14 2012 02:16 austinmcc wrote: My current stance is that the voting is being blown out of proportion, lol. Nobody standing up for ON in the earlier rounds. Even a wee bit. That gives me a gut feeling that he's town. I would have expected SOME attempt to try and keep him from passing on. So I'm a wee bit townie on him. Sandroba ... blech. I hate the idea of lynching more veteran players D1. Some of his comments this morning looked townie though, although some looked misguided. Like his stuff on how anyone who cares about town should be using all their votes...that says NOTHING. Anyone who cares about scum is probably using all THEIR votes too. I haven't played with him enough though to know whether he's super careful about choosing his words and what thoughts he puts into thread. He's making it sound like he doesn't allow the thread to see much of his thoughts/thought process, and if that's true, then throwaway statements like that are a little odd. Between then two, I'm not STRONGLY scummy on either. I'm probably voting ON? IF he hangs on doing nearly nothing, it's difficult to get a read on him. Getting a read on a replacement player can sometimes be iffy, and in this case, we've had such a long first day that it's ... probably tougher? Instead of replacing in after 48 or 72 hours or whatever, replacement would come in 96 hours after this game started. I don't want to add a new player into the mix at that point, so unless I'm very convinced of Sandroba's scumminess, I'm dropping like...3 votes on ON or something. You, thrawn, are welcome to three of my votes. As is kush, who is either town or is doing a great job of adopting a completely different style of play for this game. Plus, GZA > RZA. 3 of my votes are for each of you two to use, so long as, in the post in which you tell me how to use them, you give thread a scumread and a townread (and a tiny bit of reasoning) on someone who was safe after the first or second round. THIS is what bugs me, your not strongly scummy on either YET you have 9 votes left? HMMM, I guess you shoulda used your votes to get who you thought was scum to the finals. You don't even give a shit. | ||
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On October 14 2012 03:23 austinmcc wrote: Yes, I should have used my votes in a different way early on. Some of this is due to changing my mind on Djodref. Some is due to focusing on Aperture. Some is due to early laziness. Do you actually believe I don't give a shit? Or do you only think that THIS particular thing points towards me giving a shit? that particular thing makes me think you were indifferent to who actually go lynched today. You were around but not using your votes, aka implying you were happy with who advanced. Now that the finals are set, you say I find neither scummy. | ||
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Austin you make some good associative tells with me and ON, but the fact is I was wrong. Townies are more likely to be wrong because they don't know everything like scum does. Also, it woulda been really easy for me to just throw all my votes on sandroba because I had been expressing my thoughts that he was scum in round 2 and it woulda followed. I decided I wasn't confident enough to lynch him and lynched the safer target ON. Also, that last part of your post about you thinking I'm scum every game is funny because its so true. | ||
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The more time you have the potato, the greater chance you have of lynching yourself. You know your alignment and if you are town this is bad. That stuff being said I need to re-read the filters cause I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start, | ||
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On October 15 2012 20:55 kushm4sta wrote: No prpl that wasn't the deal. We gave you the potato because we think you are scum, not because we trust your opinion. You keep it until you convince us otherwise. The only person town can agree for you to give it to is daoud. If you give it to some town you are only prolonging this game because we will lynch the fuck out of you first chance we get. No kush stop shutting down discussion. If hes town why the fuck would he hold on to an explosive potato. | ||
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I would MUCH rather lynch d0ad over prplhz. If you actually read prplhz filter he looks pretty town ignoring the fact he really thought sandroba was scum. But guess what? Townies are wrong most of the time. They don't have the information like scum. They can't manufacturer reads based on this information. That looks like what da0d has been doing all game, picking people to make cases on and manufacturing them after the fact. Also, to everyone saying lolz da0d/ prplhz pass between eachother. (kush) I want a detailed post on why you think they are both scum. Including stuff that doesn't have to do with ON flipping scum. Also think if you had the potato and you knew you were town. Why the fuck would you listen to anyone else or hold the potato because someone told you to? Holding the potato as town makes no sense. Holding the potato as scum, makes more sense to get town cred. Telling people what they have do with the potato without a good reason, or they will be lynched is complete scum motivation. If I had the potato, I would not hold that thing a second longer than I had to, and would be putting it on my top scum read, not someone elses. Why? You know your own alignment and no one elses. You can only trust yourself at that point. | ||
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People. Go re-read kush. | ||
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On October 15 2012 23:02 da0ud wrote: If I get the potato, my plan is as is : - Get the majority of active people at this time to agree on who between prplz or mementoss should get the potato next. - If one hides, the other one automatically gets it. - If both hide, I will keep it and explode with it, while town will become a huge winner exposing them both. omg, that third point if your town is horrid. Just because you die that means your reads are correct? | ||
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On October 15 2012 22:26 thrawn2112 wrote: In the case that da0 gets lynched and he flips green then this post may be of importance later: I don't like the way prplhz and memtoss have defended each other in the last couple pages Does this change your view of me from the last page? And it was funny how right after I defend prplhz he ninja defends me, and then subsequently makes a plan to throw the potatoe at ET without explanation. If you could pick one person to be scum that doesn't include me prplhz or da0d. Who would it be? (only asking your because your my top town read atm) @prplhz Do you think ET is town? If so, don't pass to ET the greater the time in towns hands the potato is the greater chance of dead town. If you think ET is scum, how do you explain ETs last minute ninja semi final vote to put ON into the finals over hopeless. | ||
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Also look for people who didn't vote ON in the early rounds, but bussed him in the finals. | ||
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On October 15 2012 23:49 thrawn2112 wrote: Idk that will require some reading. But there has been this voice in the back of my head telling me to be suspicious of austin. There's a subtle difference in his meta this game from his meta in the 2 recent games I've seen him play town. In this game he spent a much longer time being lurkish before posting walls of text and I had to specifically call him out to get him to do so. He's also been doing weird shit like asking "if you r scum" hypotheticals... in those other games I saw him jnust being way more straight forward in general. And he only put down a single vote in round 1, then he put down 3 votes for ON in r4 and left the rest of his votes up to me and kush. At the time when he made that offer kush looked like he was for sure going to vote sand and I was on the fence but leaning sand. That's 6 of his votes, or 60% of his D1 actions we cant really account for. I still don't understand how anyone would want to give away their votes. Other than those things I've gotten a very townish vibe off of him but those things have been in the back of my mind all game. Nice we have the same hunch. I will try to put something cohesive together after work. Read this if your interested in scum austin: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174 | ||
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Things that still make me think hes town. He's not trying to push the case on me so that the lynch targets extend from him and da0d to him da0d and me. | ||
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On October 15 2012 16:10 da0ud wrote: Let me put some of my thoughts on Mementoss down : 1) My first scum read on him was by looking at the way he could have tried to hide his action by being the one voting on the most people after round one and two. 4 different people including Sand who was town (two votes) and kush as well who is the one is consider the towniest currently. He has been changing his attitude : voting kush in the first round and then not following it by voting sand in second round. Or voting Djo in first round and then switching it up by going for ET in round two. 2) in the finals he did probably hide his votes by putting them on ON when San was leading 20-0. Changing his mind later on and putting votes on Sand when ON was catching up would have looked too very odd. 3) He has never been attacking directly ON, kind of defending him on posts and saying San is scummier. Sounds like a defaults choice, when ON is afk and lead 20-0. 4) All of mementoss argumentation is otherwise based on saying he is town because he used his votes earlier, he am concerned some people kept some votes and are powerful in the finals. Good way to hide the fact he actually doesn't affect anything in the vote. He is really hiding behind the fact he makes no difference in the voting decisions. => this previous post is the climax ! I figure I should defend this so I don't get mis-lynched as some people are actually thinking this "case" is right. Espeically since many people are getting tunnel syndrome and planning the lynch 3 days in advance. 1. Being wrong about sand doesnt make me scum. Changing my mind doesn't make me scum. If you actually bothered to read the thread I explained why my thoughts changed. 2. Now you are just stretching it. It was 20-0 and I changed it to 20-5, and this makes me scum? It certainly doesn't give me town cred but I don't see how it makes me scum. 3. I didn't attack ON. How could you actually have a case against someone with 4 posts? How could you be confident that someone was scum with that little content? It was lurking scum, but it could have jsut as easily been busy town. I explained my vote on ON. It was because it was the safer lynch and I wasn't confident enough to lynch sandroba that day. If you think that reason is scummy, well I guess you think Thrawn is scummy for having the same reason as me. On October 14 2012 09:59 thrawn2112 wrote: I think I want to lynch ON... my conviction in my sand read isn't strong enough to vote him, a vet, over a complete null read. 4. I didn't say I was town because I used my votes earlier. I said people should stop lurking with their votes How didn't my votes make a difference? I used my votes to get my best scum reads atm advance. Other than that you just quote me 10 times and don't explain why any of its scummy. Really? Your going to use my time zone as a fact that I'm scum. Damn your grabbing So yeah. Basically, this case doesn't really prove why I could be scum at all and is pretty garbage (mainly just takes quotes out of context without any explanation to why they make me scummy). The best point in this case is my interactions with ON, which I call him null. I don't ever defend him explicitely to the point where I try to change peoples mind about him, cause honestly like I stated many times. He was null, he was lurking hard. Anyone that KNEW he was scum, is probably scum. | ||
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On October 16 2012 05:20 prplhz wrote: it doesn't actually bother me that much i still want to give the potato to you wat y | ||
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On October 16 2012 05:28 prplhz wrote: kinda sucks that i could lose the game by going for EchelonTee i just don't want to get lynched in the first two days for my third town game in a row You can't even explain your reasoning for going for him. | ||
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On October 16 2012 05:50 EchelonTee wrote: wat he's pushing hiro and myself, not pushing you = you think he's more town? yeah but hes not pushing easy target. I didn't say I thought he was town any more though. He seems very scum based on his potato holdage and trying to kill you. I was just saying that second point, that kinda made him seem townie. | ||
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On October 16 2012 06:03 austinmcc wrote: ET, if prplhz is town, who are your top 2 scumreads and why, given their play this game? prplhz, if ET is town, who are your top 2 scumreads and why, given their play this game? mementoss, I'd ask you the same question but you don't seem to REALLY have scumreads. We'll just go with, if prplhz is town, who are your top 2 scumreads and why, given their play this game? More mementoss stuff? Why, certainly! Please take a look at his D2 posting, and then some questions about his play to generate discussion can be conveniently found below! Here's him talking about his scumreads, or my scumreads, or your scumreads, during D2: It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in to talk about these two and call them scum. Instead, I will drop in, NOT call them scum, and not give any kind of read on them. Instead, I will re-read filters. Keep that in mind, that passage highlighted in red, as we take a look at what Mementoss got out of rereading filters. "If you actually read prplhz filter he looks pretty town ignoring the fact he really thought sandroba was scum" Specifics? Negatory. Just that his filter looks towny. "what da0d has been doing all game, picking people to make cases on and manufacturing them after the fact." Specifics? Negatory. Just that da0ud has been doing this thing that mementoss thinks is scummy. Specifics? Negatory. If you could pick a person to be scum that's not a top candidate, oh thrawnykins, my bestest most toppity-toppest townread, who would it be? **Note: Mementoss just getting information from everyone, taking the pulse of the thread, despite basically having no reads on the table himself except a generic comment that da0ud's filter looks scummy** More "Hey guys, let's all do this" without doing it himself? Did Mementoss do this? What did he conclude? When he re-read filters, which, remember, he was going to do, what did he find? Ah. "We have the same hunch." I will put something together later. Again, no specifics. Maybe I'm scummy? Maybe I'm not? Maybe he just thinks I might be scummy? For...reasons!? prplhz now scummy because he's trying to kill ET. Despite his whole D1 filter looking townie to mementoss earlier. Also, mementoss takes back thinking prplhz is town, but...there are things that still make him think prplhz is town. LET'S PLAY BOOK CLUB. PLEASE READ THE ASSIGNED MATERIAL AND ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS: (1) What are mementoss's scum reads? There appears to be one on me, but I don't know why. There appears to be one on da0ud, that he doesn't talk about much and never explained with any length or particularity. There appears to be one on prplhz, as well as a town read on prplhz. (2) What is mementoss doing today? He's chiming in a decent bit. He's asking some questions. He's asking everyone to go do x and y, but it doesn't appear that HE has done x and y. Boo. Boo on that. (3) Does that behavior correspond with Mementoss's scum play? (4) I have been on the receiving end of a case from mementoss, when mementoss thought I was scum - + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 05:32 Mementoss wrote: My thoughts on Austinmcc: When I think of everyone in the game the person that sticks out most to me as scum is austinmcc. I realize that most of these points were explained by austin, but any decent scum player can explain things after the fact of doing them. So I figured id sum up my thoughts in this post. 1. Goes from not thinking Keirthia is not scummy, to super scummy in less than 2 hours apart. He doesn't call Keirathi scummy however, he just finds it weird, even though the way austinmcc is posting it seems like he thinks he caught keirathi in a lie. Doesn't vote for him. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 01:09 austinmcc wrote: The good start bit is relative to other recent games. It may seem dead, but, comparatively, this game started much quicker. So you don't see Keirathi's early play as scummy, you find it poorly executed town play. I didn't find it scummy and asked Drazerk whether he actually does, which was not a rhetorical question (The other ones, sure, but the final question to Drazerk is for realsies). You even want "more explanation" from Drazerk in the future, which is what I wanted because I didn't see Keirathi's entrance as third party. I know that Drazerk gave some comments on why an uninvested survivor would give up so easily, but look at his actual vote:The vote lays out survivor/third party/idiot. What makes Drazerk sure it's the first two and not the third? I'm wondering why, if it can be any of the three, he's so focused on the third party options. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but Drazerk and third party have a history in themed games, and want to know why he's zoning in on third party options rather than what would appear to be bad townie. It's not that I can't see what Drazerk is saying, but I want to know where that option for Keirathi's play went. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. 2. Keeps implying finding keirathi but is too scared to actually place a vote on him, even after complaining about people not consolidating on the votes. Wouldn't austin want to place a vote on keirathi and start pushing him now?? Nope. No fucks were given by austin about keirathis lynch. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote: Alright, done some rereading. My number 1 concern at this point is the number of side squabbles and useless votes that we've got. Previous votecount had 6 people with votes, and I think we're still about as spread out as we were before. Stuff like: Drazerk/snb very interested in each other. Both voting each other, in part, based on what seems to be "He should understand my play better." I don't want to lynch either of them today, and telling me that some other player should understand you better doesn't make me want to lynch that other guy. The votes feel entirely wasted. ghost's vote is wasted. Votes keirathi for trying too hard, never engages anyone else who's talking about keirathi. nisani201 still has a vote on Drazerk for Drazerk's initial response to Keirathi. Followed by very little else and Can't single people out for not contributing, but those votes look like they've been made without any attempt to convince anyone else, and they don't feel like they're serving a purpose. JH, how is PTP3 pushing you to play this way? Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote: Those jumps are based on what you did in the meantime. Here's my initial post: I didn't see your unvote for weak reasons as scummy. Drazerk had just posted that it was third party or idiot, I didn't find it to be telling at all because the reasoning behind the vote in the first place didn't seem strong. Then after that post, you give your explanation and justification. THAT is what I feel is scummy, reminds me of scum. I'm not concerned about you unvoting based on some weak comments from matt (What drazerk mentioned and what I didn't find scummy), I'm concerned about you based on your later explanation where you claim to have wanted discussion and opinions yet unvote before any of that ever appears. Right now, I'm scummy on you. I'm not going to lead a crusade to lynch you because the way you explained a plan reminds of what a scum player in another game did, however. For now I'm looking elsewhere for today's lynch, and I'm watching you. I'm alright with the way you discussed Ghost when talking to Gonzaw, I don't think someone can get a free pass for a terrible vote and then not pushing it at all. If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? 3. The vote on imperfection when mattchew told him to. It wasn't serious, but yet he has been withholding voting keirathi all day but can vote iamperfection, I know it was a joke, but it was an odd post, lumping nisani ghost and iamperfection into one boat. Maybe to confuse people into bandwagoning on another? Clearly you could differentiate between them. Austin never bothered to comment on iamperfections rockband meta even though we just finished that game a week ago and he was in it. Avoiding the fact? Wants to limit the discussion on Iamperfection? Hell he didn't even mention him at all before this joke post. 4. After pointing out keirathis scumminess all day, austin sheeps under gonzaws wing and votes jinglehell for weak reasoning, and then unvotes him for even weaker reasoning which struck me again as not giving a fuck who was lynched. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 02:14 austinmcc wrote: I don't think that ghost is hiding something (The hiro posts are odd but not...hiding something? A connection to look at if either flips), and I agree that Keirathi is missing part of why ghost voted for him. But dropping a vote on someone, walking away, and never engaging the thread when there's active discussion on your vote is not a thing I like. With most of us pretty inactive, it doesn't stick out as much as it would under different circumstances, but it's still not town conduct. Nisani and iamperfection both just look similar to me. I don't have experience playing with nisani, and their play is so similar this game that I'm not overly confident in choosing between them, and I find it unlikely both would be scum. I'd rather vote elsewhere and then see how nisani and iamperfection differentiate themselves over time. ##Vote: JingleHell Thinking about thishas me convinced. If he really feels like he played poorly in PTP3, then the solution is to address the "poorly" part of that, rather than the "played" part. Being non-participatory isn't a better route. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote: Huwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? This just can't be a scum post. Congrats on being town. ##Unvote + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:17 austinmcc wrote: No, you think scumJH could actually be making that argument? 4. Town reads on Mattchew and Gonzaw. Explained to the max. This just gives me the wrong feeling and reminds me of Palmar from rockband to a bigger extreme. I know he was asked to do this, but the extent he did it, espeically on day 1 town reads. It seems like he actually knows their alignments. This time coulda been spent scum hunting, or provoking some sort of discussion. No one was even thinking of voting either of these two atm, so why give a huge town read on them? Who are you convincing? Who does this help for day 1? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:26 austinmcc wrote: On Mattchew, it's a couple of his posts. In particular, this one: I'd just mentioned not liking drazerk/snb being so focused on each other:The fact that Mattchew was similarly critical gives me a townie feel. Drazerk's questions the last couple of pages have been good. I hope he would be playing the same way regardless of my comment or matt's comment, I don't think they influenced him, but he and snb being so focused on each other wasn't really helping town based on the reasoning they were providing. His iamperfection question to me felt townie. It's...an odd way to phrase something as scum? Like, you can just say "What is your read?" or "Would you vote iamperfection?" Instead he asks why I'm not voting with him, just an odd little bit of creativity. scumMatt from what I'm seen is either disinterested or...claims scum. Creative questions don't fit the bill for either of those. He's continued to pursue iamperfection, in a noticeably different way than the early voters that I've been critical of. Whereas ghost/nisani just left the thread, and iamperfection stayed focused on ghost, Mattchew has been actively commenting on other matters, has been asking questions to others, has been trying to get iamperfection lynched. It stands out so differently from behavior that I'm finding scummy in others. The gonzaw read is weaker, but the way he returned to thread feels like he was being gonzaw-y. Spammy, finding lots of little stuff, talking about it. In particular, things like this:I like finding odd interactions or posts. This was one of those...interesting finds. Not necessarily scummy, but worth noting. He noted it, explained why he was interested, and then went further later in the post to vote JH after adding in some other stuff. I like that he pulled out a weird interaction, didn't completely disregard it, didn't blast anyone for it, but used it to look further at someone. He asked this which was a good question and something I was going to ask until I saw he'd already done so. He also comes off townie in the way he addresses mementoss here: As I read it, he's concerned with mementoss's post on me. Instead of straight-up saying that, or directly confronting mementoss, he just sort of asks this minor question. What are you doing with it now? It shows me that he's trying to piece things together, that he's actively thinking about alignments. He could have burst in with "this post makes me feel weird," but he doesn't, and dangling that question out without giving a full read comes of townie to me. 5. Finally votes keirathi!! But with only 45 minutes till lynch deadline.... Why?! WHY?! When he has clearly been on him and thought he was scum all day he waits till 45 minutes left to try and lynch him. I'll tell you why, because Iamperfection his teamate the godfather the jack of all trades glados was about to die. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote: Okay, finally seeing some differentiation in some of our early voters. Right now I'm liking ghost's recent outburst and he replaces nisani as the towniest of the three. I actually really like this point:I was so focused on Keirathi's explanations for his mattchew vote that I overlooked this. It does seem off that the contrived case to get discussion going would have more work put into it, and some reliance on meta, when compared to keirathi's actual vote. Especially when players who have played with nisani said he seems townie based off past games. For some reason it makes this post hang in my mind: Keirathi notes that he went way back into Mattchew's games to be complete, for the case that was intended to generate discussion. Keirathi notes that he spends a lot of time in filters even as scum. But now it's just 5 minutes: I'm assuming keirathi didn't time himself, but this + the explanation of the mattchew case/vote + things like this + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 01:10 Keirathi wrote: The difference is there's less than 1/4 of the day left, and JH hadn't done much at all so far besides making excuses as to why he isn't playing to his town meta. ##Vote: Keirathi 6. Heres the cheery on top, Austin at the first of this quote says hes considering me active scum team. He spends the whole post on me, just defending himself. He never touches any scum motivation when writing about me. The purpose of this post was not to get people to think im scum, it was to put himself in the clear. At the end of his post he contradicts the start of his post and says im not getting a strong scum read on him. + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 03:45 austinmcc wrote: Concerning Mementoss Gonzaw, he and keirathi are sort of right up there with each other for the people I'm considering for active scum. It's a couple little things: (1) His comments on me feel slightly forcedI can't see what Drazerk is saying. I think the game is getting off to a good start. I don't explain why the unvote isn't scummy well enough for mementoss's liking. I lack logic. I am trying to make Drazerk look bad. I addres some of those points here: See GSL Open II for slow start, which I'd just been killed in. See Drazerk's vote for an option that Keirathi was an "idiot," yet he never really addressed why he was dismissing that option and finding Keirathi to be third party. At least not that I've seen. Note also that in this post I say I didn't find Keirathi's conduct scummy. I say this. I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. (2) By the time mementoss posts this, I was finding Keirathi scummy because of the EXPLANATION that he was giving for his mattchew vote/unvote:+ Show Spoiler + I look further into Keirathi On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. On October 01 2012 05:03 austinmcc wrote: There's just a little disconnect there between wanting discussion and being happy to discuss Mattchew with others and then "why do I need someone else's opinion on my case." Like...if your case was meant as a tool to get discussion, then it doesn't matter much what mattchew says or how he responds, because your primary concern is discussion and not his alignment. His response gives you a starting point for MORE discussion, asking people how they feel about his response, etc. Scummy motivation? Just look at your explanation, that you wanted to stop setup speculation and move into something else, generate discussion, because it would help town. RAWR, i am keirathi, the hero who saved town from a slow game, scum would never do that, feed me your town cred! Ymmv, but I'm pretty clearly focused on Keirathi's explanations for the entire thing, not the ease at which he unvoted, which is what I was initially defending/not finding scummy:I'm not concerned with the vote/unvote in the posts that have happened between mementoss's case and this, I'm concerned with Keirathi's explanation for the whole Mattchew shebang, that he wanted opinions yet stopped before he got them, and then stated he didn't need anyone else's opinion. So I don't get mementoss's post: we may just disagree that I completely switched stances. Which is fine. I said I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. After looking at his explanation further, I did. I'm probably splitting hairs in trying to separate the vote/unvote from the explanation, but that's because I still don't find the vote/unvote with ease scummy, but I DO find the explanation scummy. They point in different ways for me. But the bolded part here gets stuck in my head. I don't see any post concerning me "flip flopping." I don't see a comment in his initial vote on me about that. I don't see a comment at any point while I'm going back and forth with Keirathi about me flip flopping. This is the first time I see it, and I have no idea what it's referencing. This is ODD. It gives off scummy vibes, because it indicates that mementoss misremembers what he was calling me out for (not focused on actually calling me out, more focused on just making a case), or, the more paranoid option, that this is part of some planned attack and there's a post that should have come, calling me a flip-flopper, but never did. Neither option gives me a townie feeling. (3) Then he's got this post as well:That post does read weird, because he's reading it seriously. Like I said to keirathi, + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:12 austinmcc wrote: Found Mattchew's question to be real but posed in a silly way (What is your read on iamperfection?). Gave him a real answer, but started with a silly beginning. On October 02 2012 04:34 austinmcc wrote: Oh, no. It was meant as a silly response and vote, not that I'm finding him more scummy than the others. That question isn't "Why am I voting iamperfection? Let me tell you!" It was "Why am I joining you in voting for iamperfection when these other two look almost the same?" Not actually hopping on the wagon. Mattchew's question looked silly. I gave a silly answer. I am sometimes silly in thread. But mementoss pulls this up later: Read my vote/unvote. I'm not sheeping onto iamperfection because Mattchew asks me to. I vote him as a JOKE, unvote him, and then ask why I should be lynching iamperfection over ghost/nisani, and why I find the three to be similar. I do not know how this is interpreted as me jumping on a wagon. If I were jumping on a wagon, I wouldn't unvote and ask why I was lynching one instead of the other two. I was joking and then seriously asking mattchew why he was on iamperfection over others. Again, it's this weird disconnect where mementoss doesn't quite seem to be reading my responses. Or he just dislikes my responses but never really voices that when they come out. I misread him in Rock Band as scum when he was town, and I'm not getting as strong a scum read here, but flip flop posts that don't actually exist, not really reading my posts but continuing to just poke at me don't result in a townie feel. This quip stuck out to me as well, just as very interesting: (Mementoss, why is Gonzaw the N1 kill? I'd like to see your reasoning behind this statement) Beyond that, I agree with all three of these:I remember him being around a good bit, I remember some posts of his, but I'm not sure that I would if he didn't attack me. He kind of blended in, and there were some major points (Mattchew trying to drum up iamperfection lynch, the JH discussion, the ghost/keirathi bit at the end) where he's just not seeming concerned. But yet he didn't move off of iamperfection, and attacked him early, and also responded to keirathi about iamperfection's meta. A lot of his posts on me just confuse me. They don't give me a townie vibe, but he's picking up on things that I would probably pick up on as well. The joke-vote looks really odd when it's just text and I didn't put a disclaimer as to what I was doing. But it feels like he's detached from actually pushing me, just like he was detached from pushing iamperfection. And that "flip-flopping" comment...I can't figure out where that comes from. Am I being overly paranoid thinking there was some sequence of posts he thought he'd made? I'm still more sold on Keirathi as the active scum. But mementoss is my secondary candidate, and if I'm being purely speculative, one of the people I could most see being third party. It's the only way I can really rectify my read based on his general play AND the fact that he voted for scum. So I want to keep an eye on him even though he voted iamperfection. 7. Is aware he plays scummy on day 1, but has no motivation to change it. This is really just an excuse for acting scummy while being scum. I gotta go now. But that is all I have. Austin has had some townie posts in his filter I will admit, but the strange way he goes about things makes me think he is scum. His contradictions that he doesn't think are contradictions make me think he is scum. (5) Did Mementoss go re-read filters? If so...WHAT DID HE FIND? My answers? Of course! + Show Spoiler + (1) I don't really see any! (2) It looks like he's participating, but really he's not. He's just chiming in with "helpful thoughts" and never actually taking any action on those himself. (3) Based on the QT from SNNM8, Mementoss wants to know reads and where he can push, when to push, etc. This feels like him gathering information, getting everyone to give thoughts so he can see where to push. (4) No way! Look at that post (and some earlier ones I can dig up or you can dig up). I'm scummy for specific reasons. There are quotes. There are specific behaviors. There's a cohesive reason why my play is scummy, what i've done is scummy, and it's detailed. This game, not only are we not seeing that, but he's NOT specific with his scumreads at all. They're very amorphous, like he doesn't want to be held to anything. (5) It doesn't really appear so! He never seems to reference anything he found, although he does TALK about filters, he gives no real indication that he knows what's in them. Is it your goal to make a case against me every game? Also I did read the filters I couldn't find anything really that damming. 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Part I: Guys I am town On October 10 2012 12:18 austinmcc wrote: Gonna drop in to start being a good little paranoid townie. I could easily see there being a role in the game that can influence lynches. Vote stealing, doublevoting, or a mechanic that interacts with lynches in some other way. I don't want to go with any kind of plan that relies on the slimmest possible margin, and would rather us have a little wiggle room to ensure that things proceed as we want them to. This post itself rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed like a bit of a constructed way to enter the thread. And austin had to let us know he was town. On October 11 2012 08:21 austinmcc wrote: I also do not want to get lynched, and I am town. I view starting one step closer to lynch as a "disadvantage." Yes, it's kind of weird phrasing, but townies don't want to get lynched either. I don't read that as really pointing one way or the other, whereas I read his comment about wanting to lynch seeds 10, 11, and 12 because they might have rigged the bracket that we have been told by mods was random as a townie thing. It shows...unhealthy paranoia about things that cannot be true? Guys just making sure you knew I was town (plz dont advance me) Part 2: Apathetic Voting: The only vote austin uses before the final round is djo. He than complains that neither of the people in the final are scummy to him. This is complete scum motivation. Basing the finals on other people, when he himself didn't use his votes to push his reads to the next round. Also, it leaves him with the most power at the end. + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 03:23 austinmcc wrote: Yes, I should have used my votes in a different way early on. Some of this is due to changing my mind on Djodref. Some is due to focusing on Aperture. Some is due to early laziness. Do you actually believe I don't give a shit? Or do you only think that THIS particular thing points towards me giving a shit? Here is his excuse. For those of you that forgot, austinmcc was a lurker pretty hard for his town meta for the first 48 hours, and only came out to play when thrawn called him out. His giving away votes scandal was only because I called him out on being apathetic and a greedy power loving bitch in the finals. Did he give them to his town reads? Or did he give them to people he THOUGHT would be convinced to vote sandoba and take the responsibility off his back? Part 3: Fearmongering and putting little whispers of doubt on the ON lynch: Here is a bunch of little paragraphs that austin sneaks in his walls of text to spread doubt on the ON lynch, to see if anyone will bite and switch to sandroba. + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 10:01 austinmcc wrote: Yeah. A couple (1) ON on D1 and D2 got ALL the votes in his matchups. Nobody voted me. Nobody voted HiroPro. It's one part of the bracket where we've got very little information, and I'm worried that there's been NO pushback against him. It even worries me that nobody's really saying that, if he's scum and he's uncommunicative so they're cutting him loose, at least scum should be saying "Hey guys, nobody is voting against him, maybe he's not scum?" Or...that's what I'm thinking. Based on that, I want to push Hopeless1der just on principle, to see what happens and because it feels unlikely ON is scum if you look PURELY at the voting on D1 and D2. But when I look through his filter...I don't get a scumread off of it. I'm not working with much, but the constant asking about who will be around at deadline feels like an actual concern, rather than an act. Hopeless asks mementoss for mementoss's read on Hopeless's D1 unvotes, mildly townie (Calling attention to it, having someone scrutinize you voluntarily). The unvote in part to not throw away votes I'm mildly townie on as well. So...I actually don't really like that matchup at all. I'll send ON through because I'm more worried about him based on votes and speculation rather than what he's done. Hopeless1der's whole look scummy to catch scum thing is ... null to me, but some of his other stuff is mildly townie to me. I don't want to just leave it at that and not interact with the matchup though, so I figure I'll ask Hopeless1der about some people he hasn't mentioned too much. See how quick and thoroughly he answers, see who he picks and why. It's a variety of answers and reasons - no vote, vote kush even though I think he's town because x, vote prplhz because I think he's scum. I like that. snip + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 10:06 austinmcc wrote: snip I just can't shake the feeling that ON doesn't feel like he's got a scum team behind him. But none of the other players are flashing SCUM SCUM SCUM to me. One reason I think we need to look back at people who are already safe. We may not know the lynch mechanic for D2, but everyone will be back on the table (probably?). + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 10:14 austinmcc wrote: I want to draw a distinction based on hopeless having more posts/activity, more to be held accountable for, but . . . I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction between the two? For some reason I'm only thinking about ON that way, because whereas hopeless has been pushed somewhat for being scummy, ON has been heavily pushed for being absent. I'm like searching for other tools to try and get a read on ON, even if they're just speculation. ^^scurred here im the first to vote ON + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 02:16 austinmcc wrote: Nobody standing up for ON in the earlier rounds. Even a wee bit. That gives me a gut feeling that he's town. I would have expected SOME attempt to try and keep him from passing on. So I'm a wee bit townie on him. snip + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 04:08 austinmcc wrote: Last round was late enough that people were finally going to fight for him anyway. It was the first two rounds that I'm really looking at for ON, where Hiro and I got free passes and nobody blinked. A scumbuddy could have just said, "ON feels like an easy mislynch" and dropped a couple votes in R1 or R2, but once we were in R3 both sides were getting more votes and more discussion, so there was less of an opportunity for someone to save him without doing much at all. Plus, at some point, he was going to get more discussion and more arguments in support at him, so I'd rather focus on the early days as far as the whole nobody fighting for him bit. snip In alot of these posts he also says things liek I think im voting ON?? And is very wishy washy about the whole thing, giving himself reasons to vote either. He wants an out if he doesn't end up deciding to bus. Part 4 Hypocrite: Calls me out for not making any cases only has made a case on me twice this game extra tunnel. Part 5 Meta: Sarcastic Joke post = austin scum meta On October 14 2012 11:24 austinmcc wrote: You dropped 6 votes right at deadline. 4 would have put him through. The extra 2 votes, if you've got a 3 man scumteam, represent you and your other scumbuddy's anger at ON for not being around. gg, ET scum. Aperature: On October 02 2012 01:43 austinmcc wrote: Oh noes, I forgot. ##Vote: iamperfection Sorry about that. ##Unvote Read this game plz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174 He seems to be lurking at strategic times where the town is in a Lull. Isn't trying to get it going and only comes back in after discussion comes up. Perfectly happy to let discussion die. Was happy to let the day 2 go into tunnel d0ad prplhz say nothign else mode like Kush. He isn't agressively pushing reads and not as active as usual town. Just tunnelling me. Don't bother defending this austin I know you are more than capable of bullshitting your way to people as scum. The thing that irks me the most and makes me think he is scum is his apathetic voting patterns day 1, lurking patterns, and fear mongering/spreading doubt about ON lynch/ leaving his options open in final to vote either way for a majority of the last round. Parts 4 and 5 are just extras lol. This is not OMGUS, I have been hinting that austin has been on the scummy side since halfway through day 1. austin is scum | ||
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Because I know I'm town and if the potato is coming to me im hiding cause I know my alignment. Also im from PEI I know how to handle potatoes. | ||
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On October 16 2012 10:07 kushm4sta wrote: yeah sorry prplz i feel like shit. but then again maybe you keep getting lynched early as town because you act scummy as fuck? Daoud and memetoss next is what I'm thinking now. didnt you learn anything from day 2? | ||
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On October 16 2012 08:23 austinmcc wrote: gg prplhz. This is still not contributing anything useful... at least I tried to get people off the tunnelling da0d and prplhz all day and wasting the day. I tried to get people to pass the potato around so that this wouldn't happen. I may not have had time to read through everything and flesh out some big thoughts. But I was trying to tell people to get off them and pass the potato. Without the potato passing people didn't have to do anything. we let hiro do nothing we let kush do nothing and "plan" the rest of the games lynches you'd think ET who had a townie status by almost all would do something other than lolz prplhz scum and post a picture god damn. The funny thing is in a mini its more than likely all these guys are scum. so anti town. oh well, lets learn from it and have a better day 2. I will look into hiro and kush specifcally before nights end. I doubt scum will want to kill me. But just incase. | ||
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On October 16 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote: need to lynch da0ud. tunneling is not an inherently bad thing. Another way to phrase it is "focusing on someone you think is scum and getting them lynched". Calling kush scummy for tunneling doesn't make sense. Tunneling is an inherent part of playing the game, unless you enjoy being unfocused. This is stupid. Anyone who thinks this is legit is stupid.Our tunnel vision on mainly two players and planned future lynches caused discussion. Basically if you want to do this your basing all your lynches 90% on day 1 material. ET's day 1 voting actions look very town. However, his attitude/posting this game has not been town at all. I was thinking why ET as scum would put all his votes onto hopeless right at deadline to put ON into the finals as scum. The only reasons I can think of are the following. a) Scum ET looking for town credit being sneaky as shit b) Scum ET/saving Scum hopeless to bus scum ON | ||
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Got bored in hopeless1der and Djoref's filters, will look at them further tomorrow if I'm around, but I'm currently townie on da0ud but interested in his answer to the prplhz read changing, not-scummy on Hiro, and still big ol' scummy on mementoss. Nobody has answered the book club questions. Nobody has pointed out mementoss BEING useful/townie on D2, although there were posts of his that FELT useful/townie. That is quite scummy to me, as it shows someone wanting to LOOK useful/townie, without actually putting in the effort to BE so. I like to use CAPS sometimes to EMPHASIZE things. Djo, earlier you were:[QUOTE]On October 15 2012 19:54 Djodref wrote: I've checked the filters again, with the assumption that one of prplhz and daoud is scum and that we have exactly 3 scums this game. [/QUOTE] I for sure wasn't super useful but I was trying to push people into doing something instead of sitting around holding a potato thinking we solved the game day 1. read my filter. I didn't pull out the most amazing scum reads ever but here are the basics of what I was trying to get said/done by others -stop tunneling prplhz da0d -pass the potato to your top scum read ASAP if your town, don't follow what others say use your own best scum read -town read on prplhz -ON was most likely bussed. Try to do analysis based off ON and something else. - ON connection to find scum more likely this "[QUOTE]On October 15 2012 23:39 Mementoss wrote: One more quick note, if your looking for scum with associations to the ON flip, look for people who were confident ON would flip scum. No townie could be confident ON would flip scum because ON had 2 posts, and was inactive. It was a complete guess/safe lynch. Also look for people who didn't vote ON in the early rounds, but bussed him in the finals.[/QUOTE]" -defending myself -case on austin Should I have been a lot more agressive with people passing the potato and getting off tunnelling prplhz and daod? Yes. Did I? Nope. Why not? I only had short bursts of time in the thread, and honestly I didn't have any good scum reads at the time. | ||
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On October 17 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote: Got bored in hopeless1der and Djoref's filters, will look at them further tomorrow if I'm around, but I'm currently townie on da0ud but interested in his answer to the prplhz read changing, not-scummy on Hiro, and still big ol' scummy on mementoss. Nobody has answered the book club questions. Nobody has pointed out mementoss BEING useful/townie on D2, although there were posts of his that FELT useful/townie. That is quite scummy to me, as it shows someone wanting to LOOK useful/townie, without actually putting in the effort to BE so. I like to use CAPS sometimes to EMPHASIZE things. I for sure wasn't super useful but I was trying to push people into doing something instead of sitting around holding a potato thinking we solved the game day 1. read my filter. I didn't pull out the most amazing scum reads ever but here are the basics of what I was trying to get said/done by others -stop tunneling prplhz da0d -pass the potato to your top scum read ASAP if your town, don't follow what others say use your own best scum read -town read on prplhz -ON was most likely bussed. Try to do analysis based off ON and something else. - ON connection to find scum more likely this " On October 15 2012 23:39 Mementoss wrote: "One more quick note, if your looking for scum with associations to the ON flip, look for people who were confident ON would flip scum. No townie could be confident ON would flip scum because ON had 2 posts, and was inactive. It was a complete guess/safe lynch. Also look for people who didn't vote ON in the early rounds, but bussed him in the finals. -defending myself -case on austin Should I have been a lot more agressive with people passing the potato and getting off tunnelling prplhz and daod? Yes. Did I? Nope. Why not? I only had short bursts of time in the thread, and honestly I didn't have any good scum reads at the time. | ||
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On October 17 2012 07:39 kushm4sta wrote: haha if mmt thinks you are scum you are almost definitely town. hai now I caught 66% of the scum team day 1 in aperture gym time now Hiro Hopeless austin kush, can't all be scum. I like the above djos points on da0d at the moment. I will have to re-assess my case on Austin based on his more recent actions, scum austin does a decent job at looking town though. Short version in my noodle before gym and nights end. Hopeless's faking scum thing made no sense to me had me thinking he was scum for a while and then his lurking all of day 2 makes him look worse. Kush's day 1 play seemed townie, but his day 2 play had scum motivation all over it. Shutting down discussion while being active in the thread, and planning the lynch for the next day. Also making an anti-town potato plan. Hiro is lurking hard I don't remember what he did day 1 to be honest will have to revisit how he voted. Didn't do anything day 2 other than hold the potato way too long day 2, to start day 2 off on a lulll and shut down discussion, than ultimately pass it to a planning. Austins more recent posting seems to be getting everyone active and trying to pick up a town that lost a shit load of momentum, im willing to consider he may be town, but this guy is tricky. I think we have better more secure lynches tomorrow though because hes a good asset to the town, and there are people that seem to be more likely to flip scum. This was all in like 10 minutes so if I fucked anythng up my bad. | ||
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On October 17 2012 09:42 Djodref wrote: Regarding today's mechanics, I think we should run our majority lynch in parallel. It's interesting to get the list so people should put them in the voting thread regardless of who is going to be lynched today (according to the lists). With the parallel majority lynch (running until smthing like deadline - 1H), we decide what is the real target of the lynch today and we modify the lists in order to get the right guy lynched. I'm betting right now that it's going to be the same guy anyway. I propose a majority vote for this idea ! I'm in ! ##Vote Hopeless Nononononononononono No no more fucking scummy plans based on the lynch mechanics. Everyone do what they want. But more specifically (lol) put your top 2 as your best scum reads and explain them in detail. (cuz there is probably 2 left) than for the remaining rank them based on how townie you see them. Always put yourself last, not putting yourself last is a scum claim, don't put yourself in another position to save someone. | ||
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Why Hopeless1der is Most likely Town The Facts: 1. Original Name 2. EchelonTee 3. Sandroba 4. EchelonTee last minute vote bombs Original Name to put him into the finals The Theory: Alright, I want you to pretend you are on the scum team and think from a team planning and chatting in the obs QT while you read this. Looking at day 1 and the facts we have, I think its pretty obvious hopeless1der is town. I thought he was scummy, for his posts, but after thinking of this and unable to answer the question with any confidence I have come to the conclusion he is town. In the semi finals, Hopeless1der was set to move on to the finals over Original Name until EchelonTee last minute voted him through. Scum could not have foreseen this happening. Therefore scum wanted Hopeless1der in the finals to be against Sandroba . I think this was an attempt to get a guarenteed mislynch. It is the only situation in my mind that makes any sense whatsoever. If both Hopeless1der and Original Name were scum, the scum team would have had to make a decision, who was less of an asset to their team. Who could they afford to bus? The obvious answer to this question is Original Name. Why? Because Original Name was guarenteed to be a lynch contender for the rest of the game, and would eventually be killed. However, this was not the case, as scum clearly wanted hopeless1der through, until EchelonTee ruined their plan. Do you think if hopeless1der was scum they would send him against Sandroba hoping he could win out? Very doubtful. It woulda been the same sort of case, "well they both look scummy, not sold on either, so lets be safe and not lynch the vet Sandroba ". If you cannot make sense of this round with hopeless1der being scum, or think of logical (likely) scum motivation for sending Hopeless1der over Original Name. If it doesn't make sense, than it probably isn't true. Therefore: Hopeless1der > Hopeless Now, I need to re-read the Hopeless1der vs Original Name matchup because I think scum was trying to send hopeless1der through to save Original Name. | ||
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On October 17 2012 15:49 da0ud wrote: Update : 1) Thrawn 2) Hopeless 3) Mementoss 4) Austin 5) Hiro 6) Djo 7) Kush 8) Da0ud With my most recent conclusion, this list looks horribly scummy. 1) 2nd best town read 2) 1st best town read 3) Confirmed Town (from my perspective) Not sure if really really wrong/bad, or scum trying really hard to push a mislynch. | ||
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On October 17 2012 21:02 thrawn2112 wrote: that's very interesting i'm going to read through the ON vs hopeless stuff so correct me if i'm getting this wrong but the logic works out to be like this: ON is scum. Sand is town. Scum don't want a scum in the finals. That;s why hopleess was originally set to advance instead of ON. We know this because it was ET who pushed ON into the finals, and ET is town. If hopeless and ON were both scum, then scum should have been bussing ON because he would have been the less detrimental loss. It would have made no sense for scum to push a scum hopeless into finals rather than a scum ON. Therefore the scum plan was to move hopeless (who is town) into the finals? Yes this is the correct less pretty TLDR of my post. lol | ||
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On October 17 2012 21:16 Djodref wrote: @Mementoss I totally agree with the logic of your post. I didn't think through all the mafia perspective when I've made my Hopeless case. I've noticed that it wouldn't make sense for a scum Hopeless to play scummy on purpose while he was going to meet his buddy on the semi-finals. Nevertheless, if you believe he is town, please check his filter and tell me what he has achieved for town. it doesn't matter what he achieved for town it doesn't matter if hes town or anti town anti-town day 3 is not good basis for a day 3 lynch WIFOM: + Show Spoiler + Do you think 66% of the scum team would be in the top 3 lurkers list? Possible, but not usually the case in my experience I would like him to try and step it up hard with some cases plz | ||
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We can't tell if hopeless vs ON was townies voting hopeless through and scum "letting" is happen by being apathetic to vote against it or if it was scum pushing hopeless through voting to save ON. Remember hopeless was one of the bigger cases of day 1, made by a confirmed townie (ET). So using purely vote analysis is oversimplifying things and too wifom. Stop oversimplifying, remember day 2? So guys go back to making real cases from real analysis. Use the voting wifom as a weak support, and not the main point. The main case on prplhz was voting sandroba and look how that turned out. As far as I'm concerned im going to be looking at everyone except myself and hopeless for scum. Don't forget to analyse night 1 day 2 night 2 and day 3 (pre/post hopeless town post) to find scum. Don't limit yourself to only 25% of the information. | ||
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On October 17 2012 22:32 Djodref wrote: Did anybody read my defense of daoud ? I feel I have been totally rape-ninjaed by mementoss... @mementoss Do you find my defense too much WIFOM ? Sandroba was killed because of his vet status ET was killed both because of his very townie status and vet status Scum kills are mostly to people with town cred or vet status (really good scum hunting) I don't see what this has to do with da0ds alignment. If they killed Sandroba and ET for a specific reason it would be more likely to protect da0d from tunneling vets, than to incriminate him, an easy mislynch if he was town because hes easy to make a case on anyways they didn't need any extra leverage. This is too WIFOM, you can't know or prove either way unless your mafia. @Thrawn: Im interested in the reasoning behind your changes in the top 3, could you explain them for me. On October 17 2012 13:39 thrawn2112 wrote: 1 austin 2 hiro 3 da0ud 4 hopeless1der 5 mementoss 6 Djodref 7 kushm4sta 8 thrawn2112 On October 17 2012 16:01 thrawn2112 wrote: 1 da0ud 2 austin 3 hiro 4 hopeless1der 5 mementoss 6 Djodref 7 kushm4sta 8 thrawn2112 | ||
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1 da0ud 2 austin 3 hiro 4. kushm4sta 5 djodref 6 Thrawn2112 7 Hopeless1der 8 mementoss | ||
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austin case on mmt >>>> mmt case on austin we need lists from austin, kush, hiro,da0d asap. | ||
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On October 18 2012 01:29 kushm4sta wrote: I put my list up already It does pretty much 1 thrawn 2 djo 3 austin 4 dao 5 1der 6 hiro 7 memetoss somtehing liek that how in the fuck can you have a town read that good on hiro | ||
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On October 18 2012 02:03 kushm4sta wrote: he had a really town d1 then his activity died down a lot. low activity isn't a scumtell though. sadly your right, but you made me do all the searching myself o-o. day 1 hiro looking town: + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 05:19 HiroPro wrote: The contradiction is that you accused daoud of this " He is not approaching the bracket as an opportunity to catch scum", when in fact you yourself were using the bracket to pick players who you thought were worse to advance, not those who you thought were scum. I'd still like a response to this please. austin was someone you considered good and he directly refuted one of your points so I'm wondering why you didn't try to convince him otherwise, if you didn't accept his view: I'm voting for Djodref over ET. Partly because I'm getting a town read on ET (the thoughts that he's sharing seem good and I liked the way he reacted to Mementoss's accusation). But also because of the way that he's posting: his posts seem manufactured to me. Especially the one above where he seems to be calling predictions for each matchup needlessly - it's not something that I see a townie really being interested in, but it is something that I think a new mafia player would consider a "contribution" and include just for the sake of making a bigger post. Djodref x1 On October 13 2012 04:26 HiroPro wrote: We're not lynching hopeless. His plan looks silly but it looks like a townie plan - bring attention onto yourself needlessly (not something scum would do) and try to make some attempt at advancing discussion. Djodref's case on Hopeless honestly isn't very good. Except for the part about not scumhunting, he doesn't explain why any of those things are more likely to be done by scum and the whole thing about the kush/prplhz voting honestly looks like a complete misread. Not sure if town djodref would make a case like this, I'll need to read through his earlier game. OriginalName x2 On October 13 2012 04:59 HiroPro wrote: Because lynching sandroba on d1 is dumb. And he's done nothing to make me think he's scum. On October 13 2012 05:01 HiroPro wrote: Nothing. But I think hopeless is probably town. And ON is basically useless. On October 14 2012 09:52 HiroPro wrote: im here. We should lynch ON. I can see sandroba getting frustrated like that as town and I honestly don't think the other stuff that people are bringing up is all that great. From what I've seen sandroba is a pretty temperamental guy and not someone prone to explaining stuff when he doesn't feel like it. And when you have someone who is not posting at all it's better to kill them over someone who can absolutely be useful if they're town. OriginalName x5 | ||
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On October 18 2012 02:27 austinmcc wrote: Alright. I have seen reasons from kush, hopeless1der, and djodref as to why mementoss is town. You guys are all wrong. I'll get to that. Here are a couple introductory points: (1) Sandroba said nothing about mementoss beyond this point. In response to me asking what his top two scum reads were if prplhz was town, ET wrote: ET said nothing about mementoss after this point. Moreover, the main reason he appears unsure of mementoss is that prplhz/mmt mafia team wouldn't be defending each other so hard. prplhz flipped town, that reason is out the window. So, point 1 is that both NKs have stated that they believed mementoss to be scummy, under the flips we've had (ET had him scummy if prplhz flipped town, which happened). They shared that read. Moreover, this partially explains why I'm not dead, if you think I should have died last night. I have come out with strong suspicions of mementoss. Both of them mentioned him as scummy, but sandroba didn't go into detail and ET didn't really update that read after prplhz flipped. They are great players to take out if mementoss is scum, because when you look over their filters, you don't get a clear "This NKed person found mementoss scummy" train of thought. If I die, the strongest read I've had is mementoss, and so he's much more in the spotlight. (2) mementoss is a solid player from what I've seen. He played quite well in Aperture, we needed to take him out N1 as scum. In this game, IF mementoss were town, I would expect scum to go "Sandroba scummy on mementoss" and "ET scummy on mementoss" and "Austin and da0ud wrote cases on mementoss" and try to push mementoss. If mementoss were town, someone would be sheeping me, because getting a lynch on a strong townie as scum is great, it saves you a NK. Instead, we're arguing over whether to lynch da0ud? me? Again, IF mementoss were town this game, there's a real nice avenue for scum to push for his lynch. They haven't done so. ET and Sandroba both NKed, ET and Sandroba both scummy on this guy, yet scum isn't using that to push a mislynch. mementoss slightly less likely to be town based on that. This concludes the NK/dead folks' reads portion of crap I'm going to say right now. I kinda feel honoured that you planned out your night kills so much to try and further incriminate me/strengthen your own case so you could lynch me. "In this game, IF mementoss were town, I would expect scum to go "Sandroba scummy on mementoss" and "ET scummy on mementoss" and "Austin and da0ud wrote cases on mementoss" and try to push mementoss" How ironic of you to state your own plan IE (what you are currently doing) in the post that was supposed to make me look scummy. | ||
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Ausin, do you realize that in in 3 days you have made 3 separate cases on me? Some of the points say that I don't scum hunt. yet you yourself are not scum hunting, you are putting 3 cases on me, you never hunted for scum outside my filter. You know what takes away from scum hunting? Defending yourself every active day. I guess when I get home I will not be getting into analysis I will be taking all day reading your wall of text and the rest of the day trying to actually reply to it. Austin do everyone a favour and make a case on someone else. Unless your tunnelling me so hard, that you actually think I am both (assuming 2 left) remaining scum members? How is what your doing town? also I can see a huge bold point at the bottom that I can answer right now. Getting people off of what I think is a mislynch/ creating discussion, is a pretty good asset to town imo. austin da0d? | ||
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Would scumaustin put himself completely out there all game knowing I was town, what would he do after I flipped? All this just to get me mislynched? Austin please put up some analysis about your 2nd scum read, so I can have some substance to have a slightly unbiased day 3 look at you. | ||
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On October 18 2012 03:17 thrawn2112 wrote: i don't think an austin/da0 scum team is possible why, austin has been defending da0 constantly, and da0 has had austin as a scum read, but it was always 3rd or 4th on his list, never a contender to be lynched in da0s regards, common thing to do with scum mates. | ||
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No one has any idea of your opinions basically other than me being scum | ||
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On October 18 2012 04:04 austinmcc wrote: That is untrue. I have opinions on da0ud and hopeless1der at least that are clear, I think i've been clear with my thoughts on HiroPro as well. I will do some listing, but ... the list is stupid. We need to lynch 1 scum. We win the game when we lynch scum, and we get NOTHING for putting everyone in order of towniest to scummiest. Look at what listing did earlier today, people are changing their lists, getting called out for changing lists, blah blah blah. The lists and how they change are easy pickings for the thread to get full of crap. Thrawn, I need to finish something up quick for work and then I'll post on djodref. No we need to lynch 2 scum | ||
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On October 18 2012 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote: But what still doesn't make sense about is that I can't justify to myself ever being willing to share any of my votes... but there was a TON of hesitation about sandroba vs ON so I can see you taking that risk with your votes. Austin I decided to work out what my new list would be, in a hypothetical scenario where I decide you're town. It comes out looking like this: 1 mementoss 2 Djodref 3 hiro 4 da0ud 5 austin 6 kushm4sta 7 hopeless1der 8 thrawn That would be my new list of most scum to most town. Mementoss gets the first place because your case against him is very convincing. I'll have to go through his filter again myself but every time you've made a memtoss case I've found it convincing. Of course that list would have to be adjusted based on what everyone else is doing, because we are in fact listing our top choices for lynch instead of our top scumreads. But anyways what do you think about djodref? I think that if you're town, then the remaining scum are probably within mem, djo, hiro. Da0 is a guy like kush said, I don't have strong convictions about. My gut read tells me that his scumhunting has extremely newbie townie traits but on the other hand I don't want to ignore the reads of ET and sand. This post rubs me the complete wrong way by the way. Its basically saying if austin is town I think mementoss is scum. Which doesn't make any fucking sense. It's like thrawn is trying to buddy up and being on both sides of arguably 2 louder people in the game. | ||
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On October 18 2012 04:34 thrawn2112 wrote: how does it not make sense? if one of the people who i've been mostly suspicious of (austin) is making a case against you.... do you not see how that would make me change my mind about his cases if I decide he's town? if you want to call me scum go for it but please do me the courtesy of saying more than it "rubs you the wrong way" It rubs me the wrong way because being town does not make cases right, it makes it sound like you eliminating the possibility that both me and austin are town. It gives you an out to switch to me, if austin flips town or the other way around. I just don't see the point of posting that hypothetical, its based on way too much connections. Anyways I have no idea if you are scum, because I haven't been through your filter lately. Now I have to deal with this austin stuff to try to somehow figure out his alignment. | ||
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1) He could be tunnelling me so hard as town because he really thinks I'm scum. Its not scum to be wrong. Alot of his points in his case are good. A lot of points in his case are bad. (NK speculation and dangerous townie espeically forced) 2) He could be using this over aggressiveness as a way to defend himself as scum. But why? Why would he go about it this way? Why would he spend all that time and effort to make a third case about me? Is my mis-lynch THAT important to him as scum? Does this make sense? -> My mis-lynch would bring negative attention back to austin the next day, espeically being high on everyones list, and the fact people already brought up some WIFOM shit y r u not dead yet? -> Wouldn't it be easier for scum austin to go with the flow with the rest of the town and withdraw his read on me and consider me town post hopeless post along with most people. Espeically someone he considers a "dangerous townie". -> He couldn't push da0d the easiest target because of his defense on him all game, but there are definetly easier targets, aka "Hiropro" pre replacement. -> His case, it seems far far far too agressive for scum austin. Compare his case on me this game to his case against me in aperature which he was scum: + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 03:45 austinmcc wrote: Concerning Mementoss Gonzaw, he and keirathi are sort of right up there with each other for the people I'm considering for active scum. It's a couple little things: (1) His comments on me feel slightly forcedI can't see what Drazerk is saying. I think the game is getting off to a good start. I don't explain why the unvote isn't scummy well enough for mementoss's liking. I lack logic. I am trying to make Drazerk look bad. I addres some of those points here: See GSL Open II for slow start, which I'd just been killed in. See Drazerk's vote for an option that Keirathi was an "idiot," yet he never really addressed why he was dismissing that option and finding Keirathi to be third party. At least not that I've seen. Note also that in this post I say I didn't find Keirathi's conduct scummy. I say this. I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. (2) By the time mementoss posts this, I was finding Keirathi scummy because of the EXPLANATION that he was giving for his mattchew vote/unvote:+ Show Spoiler + I look further into Keirathi On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. On October 01 2012 05:03 austinmcc wrote: There's just a little disconnect there between wanting discussion and being happy to discuss Mattchew with others and then "why do I need someone else's opinion on my case." Like...if your case was meant as a tool to get discussion, then it doesn't matter much what mattchew says or how he responds, because your primary concern is discussion and not his alignment. His response gives you a starting point for MORE discussion, asking people how they feel about his response, etc. Scummy motivation? Just look at your explanation, that you wanted to stop setup speculation and move into something else, generate discussion, because it would help town. RAWR, i am keirathi, the hero who saved town from a slow game, scum would never do that, feed me your town cred! Ymmv, but I'm pretty clearly focused on Keirathi's explanations for the entire thing, not the ease at which he unvoted, which is what I was initially defending/not finding scummy:I'm not concerned with the vote/unvote in the posts that have happened between mementoss's case and this, I'm concerned with Keirathi's explanation for the whole Mattchew shebang, that he wanted opinions yet stopped before he got them, and then stated he didn't need anyone else's opinion. So I don't get mementoss's post: we may just disagree that I completely switched stances. Which is fine. I said I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. After looking at his explanation further, I did. I'm probably splitting hairs in trying to separate the vote/unvote from the explanation, but that's because I still don't find the vote/unvote with ease scummy, but I DO find the explanation scummy. They point in different ways for me. But the bolded part here gets stuck in my head. I don't see any post concerning me "flip flopping." I don't see a comment in his initial vote on me about that. I don't see a comment at any point while I'm going back and forth with Keirathi about me flip flopping. This is the first time I see it, and I have no idea what it's referencing. This is ODD. It gives off scummy vibes, because it indicates that mementoss misremembers what he was calling me out for (not focused on actually calling me out, more focused on just making a case), or, the more paranoid option, that this is part of some planned attack and there's a post that should have come, calling me a flip-flopper, but never did. Neither option gives me a townie feeling. (3) Then he's got this post as well:That post does read weird, because he's reading it seriously. Like I said to keirathi, + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:12 austinmcc wrote: Found Mattchew's question to be real but posed in a silly way (What is your read on iamperfection?). Gave him a real answer, but started with a silly beginning. On October 02 2012 04:34 austinmcc wrote: Oh, no. It was meant as a silly response and vote, not that I'm finding him more scummy than the others. That question isn't "Why am I voting iamperfection? Let me tell you!" It was "Why am I joining you in voting for iamperfection when these other two look almost the same?" Not actually hopping on the wagon. Mattchew's question looked silly. I gave a silly answer. I am sometimes silly in thread. But mementoss pulls this up later: Read my vote/unvote. I'm not sheeping onto iamperfection because Mattchew asks me to. I vote him as a JOKE, unvote him, and then ask why I should be lynching iamperfection over ghost/nisani, and why I find the three to be similar. I do not know how this is interpreted as me jumping on a wagon. If I were jumping on a wagon, I wouldn't unvote and ask why I was lynching one instead of the other two. I was joking and then seriously asking mattchew why he was on iamperfection over others. Again, it's this weird disconnect where mementoss doesn't quite seem to be reading my responses. Or he just dislikes my responses but never really voices that when they come out. I misread him in Rock Band as scum when he was town, and I'm not getting as strong a scum read here, but flip flop posts that don't actually exist, not really reading my posts but continuing to just poke at me don't result in a townie feel. This quip stuck out to me as well, just as very interesting: (Mementoss, why is Gonzaw the N1 kill? I'd like to see your reasoning behind this statement) Beyond that, I agree with all three of these:I remember him being around a good bit, I remember some posts of his, but I'm not sure that I would if he didn't attack me. He kind of blended in, and there were some major points (Mattchew trying to drum up iamperfection lynch, the JH discussion, the ghost/keirathi bit at the end) where he's just not seeming concerned. But yet he didn't move off of iamperfection, and attacked him early, and also responded to keirathi about iamperfection's meta. A lot of his posts on me just confuse me. They don't give me a townie vibe, but he's picking up on things that I would probably pick up on as well. The joke-vote looks really odd when it's just text and I didn't put a disclaimer as to what I was doing. But it feels like he's detached from actually pushing me, just like he was detached from pushing iamperfection. And that "flip-flopping" comment...I can't figure out where that comes from. Am I being overly paranoid thinking there was some sequence of posts he thought he'd made? I'm still more sold on Keirathi as the active scum. But mementoss is my secondary candidate, and if I'm being purely speculative, one of the people I could most see being third party. It's the only way I can really rectify my read based on his general play AND the fact that he voted for scum. So I want to keep an eye on him even though he voted iamperfection. -> Read austin in the QT of that game, he was careful, calculated. Hell he was conservative. Reading the QT the mentality of his tunneling against me, it feels different. Did he do this on purpose as scum? Risky as fuck, espeically being a man down already. Also the way harder route. IRC: On October 12 2012 08:56 HiroPro wrote: Aperture IRC Logs: + Show Spoiler [day1] + [14:38] <austinmcc> test test 01[14:41] <@HiroPro> sup [14:42] <austinmcc> not much, responding to keirathi i guess [14:43] <austinmcc> don't terribly want to drop a vote on him right now, i usually vote pretty late, but I think his explanation has holes to poke at 01[14:43] <@HiroPro> yea [14:43] <austinmcc> everything so different from this alignment 01[14:43] <@HiroPro> but it's like really nitpicking [14:43] <austinmcc> it is, but i've actually done it before [14:44] <austinmcc> i caught talismania in a game where he suggested some plan to get everyone active and then fumbled with the reasons he wanted to do that 01[14:44] <@HiroPro> eh do what you think is right for you I guess 01[14:44] <@HiroPro> s&b man 01[14:44] <@HiroPro> that guy could be third party 01[14:44] <@HiroPro> gonzaw looks kinda weird also [14:45] <austinmcc> snb was REALLY inactive in GSL 2 [14:45] <austinmcc> was travelling or something, i'm unsure how active he is 01[14:45] <@HiroPro> yea, but like drazerk's point is valid 01[14:45] <@HiroPro> s&b has played so many games with drazerk [14:45] <austinmcc> yeah 01[14:45] <@HiroPro> he knows by now that draz will hunt for third parties [14:45] <austinmcc> bah, drazerk doesn't hunt for third parties, drazerk hunts for HIMSELF. Always rolling third party 01[14:46] <@HiroPro> lol true [14:46] <austinmcc> it seems like we've got too much KP for a third party [14:46] <austinmcc> actually, i have nothing to base that on 01[14:46] <@HiroPro> nah i don't think so. everyone in town will have a role [14:47] <austinmcc> gonzaw said he was busy for a few days, snb may be busy, got a couple lurkers [14:47] <austinmcc> trying to think who poses the biggest threat 01[14:47] <@HiroPro> "Hiro goes on my town list because no anti-town faction would be dumb enough to say that. 01[14:47] <@HiroPro> " 01[14:47] <@HiroPro> rofl 01[14:47] <@HiroPro> i feel good [14:47] <austinmcc> haha [14:48] <austinmcc> i haven't played with town drazerk in a real game i don't think [14:48] <austinmcc> nor with nisani [14:48] <austinmcc> nor much with ghost 01[14:48] <@HiroPro> i played with town draz in bastard 2 01[14:48] <@HiroPro> nisani was town also in that game, ghost 3rd party 01[14:48] <@HiroPro> might want to check it out if you have time since it's a very heavy themed game also [14:48] <austinmcc> okay, I'll reread that over the week [14:49] <austinmcc> i read it as it was played, but i'll refresh [14:50] <austinmcc> Dunno if Jingle will be tunnely this game or will try to help out 01[14:50] <@HiroPro> well i'm not too familiar with him, but if ptp3 is anything to go by, he's not a threat at all [14:51] <austinmcc> yeah. That can't be his normal play though [14:51] <austinmcc> he's been in a few newbies, and I think he was standoffish in a couple but not all 01[14:51] <@HiroPro> i remember someone coming into the ban list thread to complain about him while the game was ongoing 01[14:51] <@HiroPro> might have been shady 01[14:52] <@HiroPro> if gonzaw has time he can be dangerous 01[14:52] <@HiroPro> no one will listen to him, but draz picks up on things 01[14:52] <@HiroPro> ghost and s&b can be decent 01[14:53] <@HiroPro> mementoss too i guess 1[14:54] <@HiroPro> matt is really up and down, dunno what he's going to be like this game [14:54] <austinmcc> yeah, i was remembering shady and jingle sniping at each other in the one game [14:54] <austinmcc> hmmm [14:54] <austinmcc> i agree on gonzaw [14:54] <austinmcc> i guess we see how this game feels, but he's someone to take out before he can spam [14:54] <austinmcc> although he also seems to get off track sometime and just clog up thread 01[14:54] <@HiroPro> thing is right now the game is kinda dead [14:54] <austinmcc> if snb's super inactive i'm not overly worried about him 01[14:55] <@HiroPro> gonzaw is a good guy to correct that [14:55] <austinmcc> yeah [15:46] <austinmcc> ooooh [15:46] <austinmcc> looks like we might get PTP3 JingleHell 03[15:47] * iamperfection (webchat@69.177.214.63) has joined #makemoneyfast [15:47] <iamperfection> sup [15:49] <austinmcc> nothing, just scummin' it up [15:50] <iamperfection> what you think of my role seems like nerve gas will be the most usefull 01[16:25] <@HiroPro> ok i think i'll goad gonzaw into jumping on JIngle again 01[16:25] <@HiroPro> if he does that, the thread will turn into crap 01[16:26] <@HiroPro> perfection your role, uh, nerve gas is useful yeah, if we think we have a vig definetely use the 500 watt button and also stack it with austin's ability 01[16:26] <@HiroPro> that way they'll likely die instantly 01[16:44] <@HiroPro> what the hell lol 01[16:44] <@HiroPro> jinglehell actually dropped that just on 1 statement I made? 01[16:44] <@HiroPro> hrm 01[16:45] <@HiroPro> and i didn't even provide any quotes or games ol + Show Spoiler [Night 1] + [21:11] <austinmcc> check check 1 2 [21:11] <austinmcc> i don't have very long, but i can hop in here for a bit 01[21:12] <@HiroPro> hey 01[21:13] <@HiroPro> wait so what exactly where you trying to say with the mattchew thing? 01[21:13] <@HiroPro> i didn't really get it [21:13] <austinmcc> yeah yeah, it came out wrong [21:13] <austinmcc> ugh [21:13] <austinmcc> even in QT i misspeak sometimes [21:13] <austinmcc> so [21:13] <austinmcc> my role has an anti-bus driving property [21:13] <austinmcc> if i hit a bussed player, BOTH bussed players get shot [21:13] <austinmcc> so we know there's a bus driver somewhere [21:14] <austinmcc> if we think it's just bus driver and not other protective roles, and that a bus driver would bus mattchew to protect him [21:14] <austinmcc> then me shooting mattchew makes the most sense [21:14] <austinmcc> hit 2 targets [21:14] <austinmcc> but i think that we can't rely on no protective roles [21:14] <austinmcc> and we can't rely on a protective mattchew bus 01[21:15] <@HiroPro> hm, so what exactly do you want to do? [21:19] <austinmcc> i think we can leave mattchew up [21:19] <austinmcc> sorry, trying to also get back into another game, was so focused on this game today [21:19] <austinmcc> i think we can leave gonzaw up tonight [21:19] <austinmcc> i think we can leave mattchew up tonight [21:20] <austinmcc> i'm down with a memntoss kill\ [21:20] <austinmcc> killing Crossfire is a waste. snb is a waste (but could be fun for sheer oddness). JH is a waste. Nisani is a waste. That's 6 people entirely out if you count us out 01[21:20] <@HiroPro> drazerk is pointless. [21:20] <austinmcc> leaves ghost, mattchew, gonzaw, drazerk, keirathi, mementoss [21:21] <austinmcc> i agree with drazerk, and there are some suspicions on him as well [21:21] <austinmcc> so ghost, mattchew, gonzaw, keirathi, mementoss [21:21] <austinmcc> i don't think we should shoot ghost [21:21] <austinmcc> or gonzaw or matt [21:21] <austinmcc> i kind of come down to keirathi or mementoss [21:21] <austinmcc> for the actual factional KP 01[21:21] <@HiroPro> definetely prefer shooting mementoss 01[21:22] <@HiroPro> keirathi has actual suspicion on him and is kind of zoned in on nisani [21:22] <austinmcc> agree as well [21:22] <austinmcc> we're all good on factional then. And I don't think mementoss seems like a good protect target or anything tonight [21:23] <austinmcc> as for my shot, i've never actually been lynched, so I think I can avoid it [21:23] <austinmcc> at least for tomorrow 01[21:23] <@HiroPro> ok we need that [21:23] <austinmcc> so we need someone we want to kill next night 01[21:23] <@HiroPro> the burn then right [21:23] <austinmcc> i don't think we can possibly aim at someone being bussed [21:23] <austinmcc> it's just a .5 KP shot [21:23] <austinmcc> so i can fire 2x on one guy 01[21:23] <@HiroPro> no but it's free right? 01[21:23] <@HiroPro> you can use it twice in one night? [21:24] <austinmcc> ach night you may target a player and fire .5 silent kp at them (target will not be notified they were hit or protected from a hit). If the target is bussed with another player, both players will take the .5 kp because portals don't care about bullets. 01[21:24] <@HiroPro> yea you can't save that shot 01[21:24] <@HiroPro> you need to fire 0.5 each night [21:24] <austinmcc> yeah, but it won't kill until tomorrow [21:24] <austinmcc> so we've got to slightly think ahead [21:24] <austinmcc> i could want mattchew or gonzaw gone after 2 days maybe 01[21:24] <@HiroPro> yes [21:24] <austinmcc> i'm also slightly worried about some of the oblivious town players 01[21:25] <@HiroPro> well i think i can manipulate gonzaw [21:25] <austinmcc> JH is super duper towny to me but maybe not to others 01[21:25] <@HiroPro> doesn't matter if he is townie or not [21:25] <austinmcc> and Crossfire looks townie to me, if i'm viewing things objectively [21:25] <austinmcc> well, it matters late [21:25] <austinmcc> you're our best chance for endgame [21:25] <austinmcc> and you're set up well [21:25] <austinmcc> but if it's you and the two of them left 1[21:25] <@HiroPro> jh is so irritating and obssesed with himself that townies will suspect him [21:25] <austinmcc> i'd be lynching you in a heartbeat [21:26] <austinmcc> because they're so silly and towny. Everyone else might feel otherwise though and want to lynch JH for being JH 01[21:26] <@HiroPro> i'm going to go into endgame with crossfire and drazerk [21:26] <austinmcc> lol [21:26] <austinmcc> i wouldn't be surprised to see someone take drazerk out before then 01[21:26] <@HiroPro> yea it's possible [21:26] <austinmcc> or at the very least someone can bring up lynching him for the good of endgame 01[21:26] <@HiroPro> fine i'll take gonzaw and jingle lol 01[21:26] <@HiroPro> i'm not scared of gonzaw 01[21:27] <@HiroPro> matt might still be able to figure me out [21:27] <austinmcc> i'll be interested to read the thread if you guys are the final 3... 01[21:27] <@HiroPro> oh man that shit would be awesome lol [21:27] <austinmcc> i'm not overly scared about gonzaw either, but he's more threatening right now than someone like snb 01[21:28] <@HiroPro> yea s&b will get lynched 01[21:28] <@HiroPro> the guy has no thread presence 01[21:28] <@HiroPro> he came in today close to the lynch and all he said was drazerk is scum 01[21:28] <@HiroPro> didn't say a word about perfection 01[21:28] <@HiroPro> that kind of stuff will seem really scummy [21:28] <austinmcc> yeah [21:29] <austinmcc> he's been entirely missing the last couple games i've played with him, while he was at CERN or coming back 01[21:29] <@HiroPro> nisani can be lynched too i think [21:30] <austinmcc> i think nisani, snb, drazerk, JH without me on the vote, and even maybe ghost/keirathi can be lynched [21:31] <austinmcc> gonzaw has some neat little suspicions on ghost, but i don't know that they'll catch. Keirathi had that comment about iamperfection looking townie off meta [21:31] <austinmcc> which added to his other stuff makes him feel lynchable [21:31] <austinmcc> also, gonzaw and ghost seem to find him scummy, and iamperfection's flip shouldn't make him seem more townie, even if they don't care about his iamperfection read 01[21:31] <@HiroPro> yes 1[21:32] <@HiroPro> so who's the burn target? matt? crossfire? gonzaw? i'm leaning to matt 01[21:33] <@HiroPro> actually the frame might be even more important 01[21:33] <@HiroPro> if I can just try to figure out who the cop would target 01[21:34] <@HiroPro> probably nisani/s&b/drazerk right? 01[21:34] <@HiroPro> well you and kei are possibilities too 01[21:34] <@HiroPro> but my frame only makes people look guilty, not inno [21:35] <austinmcc> i don't see a cop checking snb N1 [21:35] <austinmcc> I could see cop checking nisani, drazerk, me, kei 01[21:36] <@HiroPro> we need to breadcrumb hunt 01[21:36] <@HiroPro> ugh it's so tiresome lol [21:37] <austinmcc> i don't even know how you'd crumb in this game [21:37] <austinmcc> i guess you can crumb the equivalent of your role in a normal 01[21:37] <@HiroPro> they'll do names 01[21:37] <@HiroPro> or yea equivalents 01[21:37] <@HiroPro> names of people [21:37] <austinmcc> like if I crumb some portal word [21:38] <austinmcc> nobody knows what that would be 01[21:38] <@HiroPro> names of people [21:38] <austinmcc> but yeah, crumbing targets and equivalents [21:38] <austinmcc> also, i'm guessing there are a lot of roles [21:38] <austinmcc> everyone loved aperture for the roles 01[21:38] <@HiroPro> yea def and we have no rber left lol [21:38] <austinmcc> people will be so disappointed if they join Aperture 2 and get no role 01[21:38] <@HiroPro> yep 01[21:38] <@HiroPro> i bet there's one troll green though 01[21:39] <@HiroPro> like the lemon thing 01[21:39] <@HiroPro> or the one that got a report of who was going to die at night at the daypost [21:40] <austinmcc> i'm going to shoot matt i think [21:40] <austinmcc> either matt or snb/crossfire [21:40] <austinmcc> if one of those two die [21:40] <austinmcc> i can claim vig or something, weeding out lurkers [21:40] <austinmcc> or weeding out people we don't want in endgame 01[21:40] <@HiroPro> you can't claim vig, we only have 1 kp itll be too obvious 01[21:41] <@HiroPro> oh wait 01[21:41] <@HiroPro> yes you can [21:41] <austinmcc> yeah 01[21:41] <@HiroPro> but its not a good idea [21:41] <austinmcc> i held my shot N1 [21:41] <austinmcc> or 01[21:41] <@HiroPro> like role!=alignment [21:41] <austinmcc> i couldn't shoot til x [21:41] <austinmcc> yeah [21:41] <austinmcc> but [21:41] <austinmcc> how you use the role can show alignment [21:41] <austinmcc> why would scum weed out a lurker [21:41] <austinmcc> that town didn't want to take to endgame, but probably wasn't going to lynch [21:41] <austinmcc> why wouldn't scum kill a stronger town player [21:42] <austinmcc> i only like those as kill options because I think they provide a strong argument that the use of the role is townie 01[21:42] <@HiroPro> not crossfire 01[21:42] <@HiroPro> people would lynch you if you claimed that 01[21:42] <@HiroPro> cause he voted for perfection [21:42] <austinmcc> yeah, true. only gonzaw suspicious of him [21:42] <austinmcc> remember he didn't know it was plurality [21:43] <austinmcc> so gonzaw's right, even though silly, about crossfire's vote not being a great towntell 01[21:43] <@HiroPro> no but someone will go, "that's a sign of him not having teammates to tell" 01[21:43] <@HiroPro> which is true 01[21:43] <@HiroPro> like if your teammate is up for lynch 01[21:43] <@HiroPro> you're going to know the damn voting rules [21:43] <austinmcc> yeah [21:43] <austinmcc> okay so [21:43] <austinmcc> mattchew or snb [21:44] <austinmcc> mattchew gets rid of townie. mattchew might be protected. mattchew might also be bussed [21:44] <austinmcc> actually, i don't care AT ALL about bussing 01[21:44] <@HiroPro> wait your thing will have flavor dude i just realized [21:44] <austinmcc> because i only do .5 kp. Horribly unlikely i'd be able to finish the person off 01[21:44] <@HiroPro> like if someone cross checks with aperture 1 01[21:44] <@HiroPro> they'll think you're scum [21:44] <austinmcc> sure [21:44] <austinmcc> sure [21:44] <austinmcc> well, less sure there [21:45] <austinmcc> i can claim to be a converted sentry gun [21:45] <austinmcc> or whatever else 01[21:45] <@HiroPro> -_- [21:45] <austinmcc> like...i can either claim a slightly different name [21:45] <austinmcc> converted sentry [21:45] <austinmcc> huggably soft sentry gun 01[21:45] <@HiroPro> that sounds so dumb lol [21:45] <austinmcc> renegade sentry gun [21:45] <austinmcc> this is how my mind thinks lol [21:46] <austinmcc> or claim like...sentry gun remote [21:46] <austinmcc> i dunno 01[21:47] <@HiroPro> wait so we have 12 people right 01[21:47] <@HiroPro> 11 after tonight [21:47] <austinmcc> yeah [21:47] <austinmcc> asked grey in QT about kill flavors 01[21:47] <@HiroPro> how many mislynches do we need? [21:47] <austinmcc> if it just says "x got shot" and not "x got shot by a sentry turret" then kill flavor won't matter [21:47] <austinmcc> even like "riddled full of holes" is fine 01[21:47] <@HiroPro> yea [21:47] <austinmcc> assuming no protects and no vigis 01[21:48] <@HiroPro> if your thing is flame [21:48] <austinmcc> 11 tomorrow, mislynch 1 to 10, 8 with NKs, mislynch to 7, 6 with NK, mislynch to 5, game ends that night [21:48] <austinmcc> my thing is bullets [21:48] <austinmcc> i'm an infinite bullet sentry turret 01[21:48] <@HiroPro> oh ok [21:48] <austinmcc> so that's 3 mislynches [21:48] <austinmcc> to win 01[21:48] <@HiroPro> 3 mislynches? [21:48] <austinmcc> assuming no third party [21:48] <austinmcc> no vigis [21:48] <austinmcc> no protects [21:48] <austinmcc> no nothings 01[21:48] <@HiroPro> and we need 2 of your kills or 1? 01[21:49] <@HiroPro> 1 right? [21:49] <austinmcc> 1 kill [21:49] <austinmcc> the second kill would take us to 3 players left with 2 of us being scum, so we'd win whether i get that kill or not 01[21:49] <@HiroPro> i don't think we can get 3 mislynches if you shoot s&b [21:49] <austinmcc> if I die before that last night [21:49] <austinmcc> then we'd need 4 i think [21:49] <austinmcc> okay [21:49] <austinmcc> i'm good shooting mattchew [21:49] <austinmcc> that's true that we're going to need good mislynch targets 01[21:50] <@HiroPro> yea [21:50] <austinmcc> and i guess it frees up tomorrow night's factional for anyone who comes out too strong 01[21:50] <@HiroPro> yes 1[21:51] <@HiroPro> and ill carry out the kill on memen 01[21:51] <@HiroPro> my role might be an issue later on... cause i won't know what i show up as visiting 01[21:52] <@HiroPro> cause i copy the visits of the person who i visit lol 01[21:52] <@HiroPro> but it does give me their alignment so i should still use it [21:54] <austinmcc> yeah. as long as you don't use it on me you'll come off town to DT checks. the only risk is...what. someone rolechecking the person you target and getting back your role [21:54] <austinmcc> then, if things go late, you might get tripped up if a roleclaim was forced [21:55] <austinmcc> even if you had a fakeclaim name, you couldn't really show you'd done anythign to anyone [21:55] <austinmcc> that's so far out there that it isn't worth orrying about though [21:55] <austinmcc> okay so [21:55] <austinmcc> kill mementoss [21:55] <austinmcc> .5 KP mattchew [21:55] <austinmcc> i'll write a case on mementoss tomorrow [21:55] <austinmcc> and some other normal night stuff -> The case on me that game was planned, and this time, it has been gradual and you could tell he thought I was scummy throughout. http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FmyTwBWuTQ3H Austin was scared of me in the QT. Austin does not feel scared. Austin did not take the easy route out. Fuck me. I am sure Austin is town? Nope. Am I comfortable lynching him anymore? Nope. SHeit. 1 da0ud 2 djodref 3 hiro 4.austin 5 kushm4sta 6 Thrawn2112 7 Hopeless1der 8 mementoss | ||
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kush has some super scummy posts day 1 trying to get 1der through hard and sandroba lynched, but he was the hammer on ON. kush was super scummy all of day 2. But kush defended me before it was cool (pre hopeless post) why would he do that as scum? Kush also pointed out hiros play day 1 looks townie, which it does. Kush pushing the hardest target, thrawn with little to no support and actually made a case on him. Overall, I think hes town, and might have got caught on the wrong end of that day 1 ON stuff. | ||
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On October 18 2012 05:08 kushm4sta wrote: I had good reasons to vote 1der over ON and I would do it again next game given the same circumstance. He was gonna get modkilled probably I thought, so I saw no sense in lynching him. 1der was a scum read and ON was null. I prefer to lynch scum over null. yeah it was similar to my thought process as well, then I realized I didn't want to lynch sandroba so the only option was ON | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:12 austinmcc wrote: As far as I know, that's actually a lie. I swear there's another game where I accuse him of being scummy, but it turns out when I go look through them that I'm not always scummy on him. Im pretty sure its every game but than you think im town later, PTP you thoguth I was scum. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:35 austinmcc wrote: VE, when you catch up or do something, I'd like your thoughts on the following: (1) Why sandroba N1? (2) Why ET N2? (3) Do those NKs tell you anything about the identities of the remaining mafia? (4) Mementoss or Mementoss or Mementoss? holy fuck man are you this wifom every game? THIS is the weakest part of your case BY FAR, actually it adds nothing, it takes away from your case on me, why are you referencing it. Do you not realize im a night 3 kill almost every game? | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:33 austinmcc wrote: That is somewhat true. I have seen scum drop votes on players who aren't really legitimate lynch candidates and walk away, or just halfheartedly push those targets. This is not that, however. Sandroba found mementoss scummy as of his last comment on him. ET did as well. Thrawn notes that if I'm town, then I have good, real points on mementoss. da0ud also wrote a case on mementoss. You can say that's just a "believable tunnel target," but at some point it looks like a "believable tunnel target" because the guy looks scummy. Nor would I characterize my play concerning mementoss as "apathetic." You think I don't care who gets lynched? You think I don't care if mementoss gets lynched? guy guess who else they both found scummy da0d. if da0d flips scum your next, forget the meta. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:48 austinmcc wrote: [/spoiler]bunch of peeps: da0ud scum da0ud scum da0ud scum. austinmcc: here is why I don't think da0ud is scum. kush: Right off the top of my head I KNOW that I've posted on other suspects, and other subjects. I know that you know this, because you specifically interacted with me about da0ud and found my posts convincing. I'm unsure yet whether you're trying to discredit me or actually think that I haven't been involved in other discussions, despite...having discussions with me. [spoilers]There may be some subjects about which I am apathetic (listmaking) but, beyond mementoss, I've been pretty clearly concerned with: da0ud why those NKs the R3 ON/hopeless1der matchup guy give your number 2 scum read and why, ive only asked you 50 times. | ||
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Djodref Part I: Round III Hopeless vs ON On October 11 2012 00:44 Djodref wrote: I'm going to bed now and I'm going to wake up few hours before the first round deadline. I would like to say that I don't like people who are saying they are voting this one and this one but are not using the voting thread. I don't have a clear view on their motivations. So I'm going to show them the way I would like them to follow. This is an example of what I'm not going to do. On a side note, I don't like lurkers as well. ##Vote Memento ×1 original ×1 @hopeless would you mind explaining your gut feeling? Also I've just noticed that Kush ans ET have used the voting thread Says he doesn't like lurking and lurking is scummy. But later he defends ON for lurking saying lurking usually doesn't flip scum. Ridiculous double standards whenever its needed. On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: Day 1 Round 2 Preview HiroPro/OriginalName At first glance this MU looks easy but it could be more interesting that it looks like. Once thing I have learned in my previous game is that obvious scum players are usually town (Kush being an exception of this rule^^). We could all agree that ON looks bad, like very very bad. Casting last minute panic votes (on me on top of that) after zero posts and not even properly explaining his motives is scummy as hell. But thinking about it, I cannot imagine any mafia player being this obvious. So I want to give him a second chance for today and see if he can make it up before the deadline. HiroPro hasn't posting that much and I didn't like his post encouraging people to share their thoughts and plans about the lynch mechanics. Right now, I would vote him over ON but I don't want to spend more than 3 votes on this (I didn't keep my 10 votes like, let's say, Hopeless). Prediction: ON advaces against my will to the Round 4 5-3 snip Gives ON an excuse for being scummy, bringing doubt on putting ON through. Too scummy to be scum. Mafia don't usually flip when they are this obvious. Saying he wants to vote hopeless over ON but wont use more than 3 votes. On October 12 2012 11:33 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless You are my top scumread at the moment so I want to go full force against you. As I might no be able to vote on the last round, I don't mind to spend all my votes on you this round. I'll come up with a case against within 10 hours. ON is a scummy lurker but, in my opinion, he is more lurky than scummy. And you are still scummier than him  More lurky than scummy, another excuse. First post with a lot of effort into it is trying to advance Hopeless over ON: + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote: As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 However, he wasn't convinced enough before to use more than 3 votes, WHATS THIS, oh the situation changed, more people are voting ON than he thought. Now he decides he needs to use ALL his votes, that how convinced he is. + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote: First of all, I'm disappointed that Hopeless did not advance to the final. Right now, I would like him to be lynched, at least for the confusion he is putting me through. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen today... I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 ! Concerning today's lynch, I don't have any more votes so I have basically no power to change anything. Yet I would like to use my words to convince you to lynch Sandroba over OriginalName. OriginalName I think everybody could agree that he is a total lurker. So let's look at the few things we have. His useless panic vote against is scummy as hell and his explanation for it was weak in my view because he calls me for a post I have made drunk and me backing off from this post later on. I was drunk and I've made a mistake at that time so it was natural for me to back off. But I understand it could be suspicious in another player eye so it could be a valid reason to vote me. Regarding his vote, I think a scum player would have avoided voting like this. And there it is, that's all we have from him ! I'm saying that it not enough to lynch him today. Sandroba Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter. Also, his unexplained hunch for me is a scumtell. I've been looking bad enough (and from my first post apparently) to advance until the semis but he is one of two players to have a town read on me (hello prplhz!). Moreover, he didn't bother to address this point. Regarding his last post, I was also drunken yesterday, I'm having a big hangover now, most likely I'm going to be drunk tonight again but I'm still trying to invest myself in this game. I imagine he is that disinterested right now because he is scum. If I had votes right now, I would use them to vote Sandroba. Hence, I recommend you to lynch him. "His panic vote is scummy as hell but I doubt scum would do this therefore not scum!" - Seems legit. Convincing people he is a total lurker and not mafia. Decides this is the perfect time to mention his scum read on vet sandroba. Wait what, he doesn't want to lynch ON the non vet lurker, but says Sandroba is also a lurker but its scummy for him. WTF. Seriously? Unexplained hunch is a scumtell. Doesnt explain how. His meta is different. Also doesn't explain how. No effort put into this like the effort on hopeless to try and save ON. Hypocrite, obviously biased against sandroba. Makes his whole case up out of nothing to make it look better. He recommends we lynch sandroba. + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote: I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? More doubt on the lynch. Part II: Wrong end of the lynch part 2: On October 15 2012 18:18 Djodref wrote: I would like to elaborate on why we should attempt to lynch prplhz. After looking at prplhz filter, I've found:
I know there is nothing much here new but I was already suspicious of prplhz and I'm sure right now that he is scum. I agree that Daoud filter doesn't look much better but, while reading it with my newb townie confirmation biased goggles, I've felt that he may have tried to find scum by looking at vote patterns and lynch mechanics rather than people posts. During R1, he aslo have been OMGUSing almost everybody who was attacking him (me for my early attack on his first posts, Sandroba for his hunch, Kush for voting him). I would expect a newb scum to be more likely to conciliate. All of this could make sense from a newbie town player which doesn't clearly know all the principles of this game (no knowledge of the blue roles for example, ninja voting, etc...). My feeling is that we definitively have a scum between the two but not that the two of them are scum. Honestly, if they were both scum, I would expect them to concede right now. I'm really more confident that prplhz is the scum out of them two. I would be happy to see them passing the potato to each other  Another weak case that looks like a case just to be looking town and presenting the case. Also burns his hide just to look pro town. Part III: Im a Noobie! Guys im friendly town :+ Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote: On a side note, Daoud really looks like a newb townie. I advice him to be careful with early association cases because I also thought I got the complete scumteam on D1 of my last newbie game In a result I just have been tunneling our town MVP until my death... On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: I don't want to predict anything for this MU Also the predictions were fucking weird. Acting like he could read the future and shit, maybe its cause he knew what 2 other guys plans were. On October 12 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote: I'll check the thread when I wake up and I hope to be here for the deadline On October 12 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote: I just have caught up with the thread on my phone. First I would like to say that the predictions were a (failed) attempt to make my comments look like a starcraft MU preview. Thank you Kush for understanding me and believing in me On October 12 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless It's just that I didn't realize until late that the votes of ON on me were counting for this round. It felt like I was starting with an handicap but whatever... I don't want to get mislynched so I'll put more efforts in this game so everybody understand I can be a valuable asset for town Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon so you have to give me some more time. On October 12 2012 21:45 Djodref wrote: By the way, I'm going out for the night and I don't know if I would be able to wake up before 11am tomorrow, if you know what I mean On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote: @prplhz I would really appreciate you sharing with us all the info you have gathered with your questions here and there. I wouldn't mind if it was a long and articulate post. I'm starting to wondering if you are active in your scumhunting or just pretending to be active On October 14 2012 09:47 Djodref wrote: Ok, I see. I had a little misunderstanding here. By the way if you don't really think either is super scummy, it's too bad you didn't use your votes to make scummier people advance in the previous stages then (it's just a joke, I've seen your explanations for it)Personally, I would still vote for Sandroba if I could but I guess it depends on your level of conviction for him to be scum. On October 14 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote: LOL So is this standard to have a total lurker in every scumteam ? It's the case in all my games so far Holy fuck, Im done with all the smileys, you get the point he wants to look like harmless friendly old townie djo. On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote: @HiroPro I might be a newbie and my case might be bad but I'm at least investing myself in this game. So I wouldn't mind you showing me how to make a good case because I'm not able to find any so far in your filter. I would even go as far as there is not so much content in your posts. Also, from what I understand, ON is on your scumlist, but I think we can safely assume that have more than one scum in this game. Who are your top scumreads now that you are dropping me ? On October 16 2012 23:05 Djodref wrote: Honestly, I don't know. I hope to be on their tracks But I would say I'm rather safe because I'm a newbie. I've had some time at work today so I've checked the filters and I've prepared some cases and a last will because I was bored. I wanted to post it before the deadline for the sake of the last will ^^ I also think it would give my cases more appeal because I'm on a different timezone and I feel a little left out. And people are here for the deadline so I hope there is going to be some discussion about it. His night 2 posts looked really townie. But they are easy to construct as mafia. Da0d is currently leading, and although Djo wanted nothing to do with his lynch, he isn't trying to convince anyone. He did not try to push Hiro even after he thought my hopeless post made sense. Also, he posted early out of excitment or WIFOM warning, because he knew he wasn't going to die. Djo, not as fucking townie as everyone thinks. Moving him up my list. In conclusion recap: -Hard defense on Ro3 ON vs Hopeless, uses all votes -Hard defense on ON , trying to convince people to vote sandroba -puttin doubt on ON lynch -Double standards on different lurkers, ON vs Hiro/hopeless/me early -weak case on prplhz, doesn't attempt to look outside prplhz and da0d even though he thinks da0d is town and has a good chance at being lynched -Trying really hard to look town and harmless, calling himself a noob and bad and smiley faces. -Isn't pushing his town read day 3 or his scum reads -pretty much has been floating by without suspicion because of ON's panic votes. WIFOM, ON coulda been bused and coulda been used to make djo look townie. | ||
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On October 18 2012 07:07 austinmcc wrote: I'm pretty sure I'm right up there. That does not concern me, at least not right now. Why would I go through the effort of using your meta to figure our your crazy tunneling alignment as scum, if I could just lynch you and get you off my back. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Page 69.... GET IT AHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH | ||
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I dont think kush gets it | ||
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On October 18 2012 07:58 austinmcc wrote: I'm not convinced I would have ended up being lynched. For anyone keeping track, townie mementoss makes cases, like the one on djoref. Townie mementoss doesn't do nothing. A mementoss who only starts looking townie after getting called out by multiple players and tunneled by one is less likely to be ACTUAL town than one who starts off looking like townie mementoss from D1. Wait, why the fuck haven't you made your list yet? Or ever answered my question about your #2 read? Holding your list is super anti-town Put one down now. You can change it later. Holding it only shows your trying to fuck with the end results. | ||
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On October 18 2012 08:11 austinmcc wrote: Why is holding one's list anti-town? Mine most likely looks something like this, but I'm not entirely sure and I'd like to see VE in here and get some thoughts from him/on him. You Potentially kush given recent developments? hiro/VE(?) / djoref thrawn/hopeless da0ud me But, seriously, why is holding one's list anti-town? I find it interesting you'd say that. 1- easier to sheep others list 2- holds back discussion or questions based on your list 3- mafia can do the math and strategically place players in areas that benefit them | ||
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On October 18 2012 08:16 austinmcc wrote: You've been very quick to say that x or y is anti-town, but not so quick to explain why that is so. Cause Its pretty obvious | ||
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On October 18 2012 20:52 thrawn2112 wrote: I was going through filters and this post caught my eye: This post, regardless of his alignment, tells us that mementoss was of the opinion that ON is not going to be replaced. In other words, mementoss thought that ON was going to be modkilled. Why as town, would you want to vote for somebody who is going to be modkilled? It serves no purpose, unless you think the opposing candidate is town... which mementoss didn't. So it makes absolutely no sense for town mementoss to vote for ON, if he thinks that Sand is scummy (which he did) and if he thinks ON will be modkilled. Why would scum mementoss want to vote for ON, who he thinks is going to be modkilled? To gain towncred after the flip. Mementoss actually gives a close description of what I'm talking about here: Here's a recap of what I'm trying to say: Mementoss though sandroba was scummy. Mementoss thought ON was a null read. Mementoss thought ON was going to be modkilled. Mementoss votes for the null read who he thinks will be modkilled, instead of using his vote on the guy he thought was scummy? I never said I expected him to be modkilled, I just said the hosts weren't keen on replacing. AKA it wasn't happeneing in day1/night1. Who would expect a modkill with a replacement list that already has 2 people in it? Im sure I probably implied it was possible, but why would you as town want to rely on host actions that are impossible to speculate about or ask about. I was just playing the game expecting no host interactions. | ||
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On October 18 2012 21:01 thrawn2112 wrote: that's just my read of your thoughts behind that post. and I don't see how "not replaced" doesn't equal "modkilled" so wtf else would have been possible no action at all? | ||
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On October 18 2012 22:07 Djodref wrote: @Mementoss I don't understand how the following is a case about kurking... Could have have some honest comments on these points ? I musta missed that, but I still don't think hes in my top 3 people of lynching today. I already stated why I thought his day 1 looked townie. I thought when you re-brought him up you brought up lurking again | ||
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On October 18 2012 22:19 thrawn2112 wrote: time for an austin question mementoss, pretend that you are an outside observer of this game. pretend that you think mementoss is confirmed scum. who do you think his scum buddy would be? oh great an austin question. If it was me looking in and I was thinking mementoss is confirmed scum I would say his partner would be scum austin in a masterfully beatiful QT collab. But less masterful maybe mementoss/kush might make sense? | ||
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On October 18 2012 21:58 thrawn2112 wrote: kush talk about your #1 austin pick plz bump this needs to be answered | ||
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On October 18 2012 23:40 thrawn2112 wrote: sigh.... I am having doubts about my kush town read. Go read his D1 filter paying special attention to when he talks about hopeless, ON, and sand. His biggest reaction to anything that happened was when people started voting for ON... like he just completely freaks out about it. basically everything he says about ON during d1 is some kind of defense. Also, he layed down those 6 votes for hopeless in the ON vs hopeless MU. I know everyone is giving him lots of town points for being the person who basically hammered (not correct use of the word but you know what I mean) ON...... but scum kush LOVES to buss. It is literally his favorite fucking thing to do as scum. Go look at newbie xxvii where he spent basically the entire last half of the game bussing jacob. Kush also didn't do jack shit during D2. He just made a post every now and then letting us know the game was won and we should lynch prplhz/da0. My read of him in D3 is that he is being dumber than what I expect from him and he's being more of an asshole which are both qualities of scum kush. I know it's a shitty time to bring up a kush case but I have the feeling that a lot of people (including me) haven't actually read kush's filter because they've just written him off as town because of meta reasons. I already mentioned this. But then I thought as scum why would he change his mind about me after re-read and defend me and then take up a case on you without any support. Also, I can't wrap my mind around that d0ad list. It looks so ass backwards. While reading this post I kinda got the feeling you wanna lynch into kush/djo for the hopeless ro3 shenanigans? | ||
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On October 18 2012 23:43 austinmcc wrote: I'm kind of confused about this here. These are two names that jump out at you? There are legitimate reasons you could connect them. VE defends mementoss hard when popping into thread VE likes mementoss's case on djoref And probably other things you could find if you went deeper, that's just the last couple pages. But you're proposing them as a scumteam because they jump out at you? What exactly does that mean? To expand on this, what in the serious fuck thrawn? You went through list eliminating people you thought were town, and you didn't eliminate me and hiro. But earlier why did you say this: On October 18 2012 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin's case against mementoss is quite good. However recently mementoss has been townie as hell. I'd like to see more discussion about djo because recently there's been several things pointed out about him, and we've basically been ignoring him all game. Actually, better question thrawn. Why haven't you taken a serious stance all day? You just been flopping around commenting on everything and not taking a hard stance to push. | ||
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I know a slight majority of people wanted prplhz over da0d. But why wasn't scum squirming when there was 2 candidates and scum was one of them? Or they coulda just told da0d to make a case so everyone was like lol fuck it lynch prphlz, da0d is actually trying | ||
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Read this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372945¤tpage=62#1233 Answer this question: Do you agree with it? Yes or No / little explanation why. If yes: I want a detailed opinion on Kush and Djo supported by their filter | ||
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More VE homework: What do you think of my backing off of austin based on this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372945¤tpage=67#1339 Answer this question: Do you agree with it? Does it change your view on austins alignment? Why/Why not? | ||
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On October 18 2012 23:59 thrawn2112 wrote: I like flopping, I don't care if it makes me look bad, I'll point out anything that looks suspicious regardless of how many people I end up talking about and I'll take a hard stance once I'm convinced I'm right. Is it the most townie way to play? No but I care less about how townie I look and more about figuring out who's scum. D1 was pretty stupid because all we learned was that ON is scum and hopeless is prob town, and D2 was spent going "lolz prp/da0 are last two scum." So we haven't exactly had the most pro-town atmosphere in which to make solid reads. D1: Yeah I guess lynching scum is stupid........ /sarcasm | ||
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On October 17 2012 05:33 austinmcc wrote: Spammin' it up since nobody else is posting. I'll be around for the next 40 minutes or so, partially checking this while finishing up work. Then I'm gone for most of the evening. ET. I would like to hear some updated...general thoughts on the game. D1 you had some nice comments about how un-theme-ing themed games generally helped town, some praise for sandroba's comments on how to scumhunt, some other generic thoughts like: We now know that scum let ON get into the final round, and let him get lynched. Therefore, they were NOT running good interference really, although they got sandroba close to being lynched. What does that tell you, in general, about the rest of the scumteam this game? Are they inexperienced? Do they just not like VE, so they wanted to get ON killed in order to not deal with VE replacing in? Did they run so much interference and influence so many lynches in the first 2 rounds that they simply ran out of gas and couldn't influence R3 and R4 enough? I'd like you to comment on mementoss a little. Yes, you have posted on him. And linked back to those comments. prplhz flipped town, so according to your post yesterday mementoss was then one of top scumreads. Is this still the case? What was the towniest thing mementoss did D2? Do you agree with mementoss's case on me? Also, I'd like your thoughts on the N1 kill. Sandroba made it to R4. He wasn't considered the towniest townie on townie town. Yet he was the first townie to be offed. Why? Does the choice of the N1 kill tell you anything about the scum team? On October 18 2012 03:35 austinmcc wrote: Mostly agree. I even deleted a post calling everyone out because of your post. I could not understand this morning why everyone acted like this was some new thing that had just been discovered. It was why ET was probably town. I asked Hiro a question about it earlier, because he said something that made me think he didn't udnerstand what had happened last second with hopeless/ON/ET. It felt as if that bit was common knowledge already, and I, of course thinking you're scum, couldn't understand why this was neat that you'd gone and found this information. Either it hadn't been discussed as much as I thought it had, or people need to read the thread harder. Right now, because of the hopeless1der/ON vote, I do not think hopeless1der is scum. I've already said that, and I also noted some bits of his D1 filter that I found townie. This is a pretty big contradiction from austin. Saying what I said about the hopeless situation was common knowledge, yet austin himself didn't seem to think that way earlier when he says "its pretty obvious scum let ON make the finals". No thats not what I said happened. I said the opposite. Scum was actively trying to NOT let ON make the finals and then confirmed town ET ruined their day.' Austin?? Am I reading this wrong? | ||
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On October 19 2012 02:02 kushm4sta wrote: What the fuck is this shit I'm reading?? I have a lot of things to address. First: Thrawn you were scum in LC right? It's over now. first u should answer why Austin is your number #1 | ||
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If anything its against da0d because both that died said lynch da0d. Or against me because as austin mentioned they said I was slightly scummy to them. | ||
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how did the votes change so drastically | ||
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OFF AUSTIN | ||
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On October 19 2012 07:59 Hopeless1der wrote: by my count, its a 5-vote swing from austin to kush guess I can't change it and lol yeah vet claim doesn't mean anything and can never be proved so we would always be wondering was my meta analysis right? | ||
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if austin flips town, Im maybe still the night kill | ||
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thanks for listening to me. goes for wings and beer and comes back to fail. This answers nothing. | ||
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On October 19 2012 08:14 thrawn2112 wrote: if you're town then stfu for being afk till like 10 minutes before lynch not sure if srs I did the most all day and told you not to lynch austin I cant leave the thread I need to baby sit it? | ||
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On October 19 2012 08:16 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah pretty srs -_- | ||
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On October 19 2012 08:41 Djodref wrote: The problem is that tomorrow is mylo really fuck the other problem would be not listening to me | ||
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On October 19 2012 07:35 Djodref wrote: 1-VisceraEyes 2-austinmcc 3-Hopeless1der 4-kushm4sta 5-Mementoss 6-Thrawn2112 7-Djodref 8-da0ud On October 19 2012 07:37 thrawn2112 wrote: 1 austin 2 djodref 3 kushm4sta 4 mementoss 5 hopeless1der 6 thrawn 7 hiro 8 da0ud lol sorry mods this is the real one for now I want a fucking explanation | ||
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On October 19 2012 09:41 thrawn2112 wrote: maybe if you use nice words or maybe you could just read anything I've written about da0 lately and figure out why I did it its pretty much a scum claim | ||
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On October 19 2012 10:01 Djodref wrote: I've always stated that I firmly believe that daoud is a potential mislynch so on a scale of one to town hes townier than you, yet you know your own alignment? | ||
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On October 19 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote: mmt have you had a chance to see austin's new tunnel? no I haven't but im hoping it is the same as my brand new hunch | ||
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I can't be at the thread at ALL times. I said why Austin was town. IWASRIGHT. I actively tried to push other people. People that coulda died which woulda gave us ANY information. -da0d (people are still gunna wonder about day 2 and ET sandroba last words) -Djo/kush (ro3 hopeless matchup and seemed generally scummy) -what did we learn about austin, well I learned something other than me being right, but its not time to disclose it, I hope others noticed | ||
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On October 19 2012 20:35 Djodref wrote: @Mementoss Regarding daoud, do you have some answers for the questions I wanted you to ask yourself if you though he was scum ? Let me say one thing, "There are bigger fish to fry". If it is mylo tomorrow and the no-lynch is possible do it. You have so many scummy things but a lot of your posts come off as concerned townie. | ||
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On October 19 2012 21:22 kushm4sta wrote: memtoss the lynch was totally your fault... I was the only one actually in the thread yesterday trying to push a lynch. @mementoss Who do you think we should have lynched yesterday. YOU WERE FUCKING NO WHERE DUDE! Cool you said Austin was a bad lynch, but there was no fucking alternative. New scumtheory: VE Memetoss scumteam. Thoughts town? also memetoss answer that question up there. On October 19 2012 20:52 Mementoss wrote: I guess the key to this game is distinguishing scum from really stupid. I was in the thread all day up till the last hours up to the lynch. THERE WAS ALTERNATIVES. Djo Da0d Kush Hiro/VE | ||
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On October 19 2012 22:16 Djodref wrote: First thing for me is a gut feeling. When I try to read his filter objectively, I read him as complete newbie. I cannot imagine anyone forge anything like this. The best example being him not knowing about the blue roles. Maybe the more important thing is that he is obviously playing alone. I'm pretty sure that nobody is here to explain him how to defend himself, how to look consistent, how to not ninja-vote and so on. Moreover he doesn't follow any strategy. What about the newbie strategy where you are scum and you convince everyone your too newb so no one kills you strategy | ||
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On October 20 2012 01:02 kushm4sta wrote: Thrawn are you in favor of a VE lynch? Is anyone against it? no you kill thrawn tomorrow. | ||
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On October 20 2012 01:26 VisceraEyes wrote: WTF? VE, I hope your are town, or this place is fucked. lol. Carry the town when im gone. | ||
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On October 20 2012 01:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Didn't you hear Dao? It wouldn't make sense for scum to kill you 'toss. -.- See you postgame bra I really would like to see your input, detailed cases on your top 2 eads. Why oh why did you not listen to my austintown. lol man if your scum just claim now plz | ||
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On October 20 2012 01:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I wasn't here. But honestly, I wouldn't have listened if I were...the facts just seemed to point to austin scum. Like, I've played wtih austin before, obviously. He's into WIFOM and all that regardless of alignment, but his case on you was like terribly bad and the way he reacted to no one listening seemed like scummy grasping. When is the night over? 6 hours I think | ||
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On October 20 2012 01:52 Hopeless1der wrote: When are you going to be gone MMT? Im an alcoholic lol drinking for the 4th night in a row. 4 more hours till going out for food and beer. Slow at work and have a bit of time at home too. Will definitly make sure to bust out the best death post of my abilities. Probably 2 parts. | ||
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On October 20 2012 02:22 kushm4sta wrote: Why do you describe it as the biggest gamble possible? It's a gamble but so is any lynch. Why is it th biggest gamble possible? everyone else has talked. you have posts upon posts to analyse. yet you want to lynch A REPLACEMENT, based on the pre replacement filter.Who has 1 page of filter because he obviously needed to be REPLACED. Reaplacing is hard, VE had to read 70 pages before he could contribute. There is a chance hes scum, but do you want to lynch him on the 4 posts he has made>? Also Hiros day 1 was extremely town looking. | ||
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On October 20 2012 02:37 kushm4sta wrote: let's not overstate hiros d1 please. I read his past games and that could be scumhiro. To me VEs scumreads seem weird. First Austin who isn't weird but it was wrong. Now dao and djodref? Why.the focus on people who are clearly the newbs? Compund that to the fact that he wasn't here at all to help me push Austin. Not the greatest lynch but the biggest gamble either imo. give ur current thrawn thoughts plz | ||
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On October 20 2012 02:41 Hopeless1der wrote: @MMT I went looking and can't seem to figure out what has you so convinced. Hopefully your death post fixes that. @djodref I think a lot of your case on Hiro can be swept under a rug of "inactive, got replaced" which leaves me Null on a lot of things like his reluctance to give reads or his willingness to discuss lynch mechanics. It is suspicious, but not enough for me to chase his lynch. I would have gotten upset as well if I was VE because you're ignoring the fact that Hiro isn't in this game anymore, VE is. As for da0ud, I'm not as eager to lynch him now that we're at MYLO. I can see the newbie side of things, but I really dislike that train of thought because you can't hold him accountable for anything he does. If I see scummy things, I'll push him for it. I'm damn near certain that one of kush/thrawn is scum, so we'll see where this nk takes us and I'll go from there. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | ||
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On October 20 2012 02:46 kushm4sta wrote: mmt, when did you do this? To never told us not to lynch Austin until 5 minutes before. In fact, during that day you were just making a bunch of posts making Austin took scummy, even though he wasn't at the top of your.list. im not linking you to it, I showed where he was town in a huge post and tried to ask people if it made sense to convince them, | ||
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My Last Words Alright guys, face it, there is no reason why I should be alive tomorrow.Thats why I need to write the best damn death post I can so town can win this thing. Please reference this tomorrow. I see a lot of confusion in town, no one knows who or where to lynch. Well the best place to start looking is in thrawns filter. You may be saying Thrawn? That guy is soh town. I have to admit, hes pretty good at being active and writing town posts. But there is no motivation behind them other than to look townie. Lets dig deeper. Thrawn2112 As I just said, thrawn is very good at making town looking posts, but if you look at his game as a whole and not just post by post. You will see what I mean for his scumminess. Lets start at part 1. Part I : Go with the Flow: Thrawn is doing a great job of commenting on everything, changing his scum reads cosntantly and provoking discussion that he doesn't care about. He looked very town day 1 in his posts, but his stories start to fall apart day 2 and day 3 was a train wreck for him. There is clear motivation to confuse the town by never solidifying a scum read and persuing it. As well as asking questions on things he doesn't follow up on just to look townie. His flip floppyness is absurd, as town you want to find and kill mafia, Thrawn just wants to talk about who might be mafia. Lets examine this. Lets take a look at Thrawns thoughts and actions throughout the game, there is just too much posts to be quoting all this but I will quote the important contradictions after I do a brief summary. Day 1: -suspicious ET -case on prplhz -case on sandroba End result: Votes and lynches ON over sandroba Night 1: -scum lies with ET da0d and hopeless Day 2: -case on da0d -wants to circle with da0d prplhz potato End result: Doesn't push people the explode da0d happily lets prplhz blow himself up Night 2: -retracts case on da0d -kush/austin suspicion Day 3: -implies kush/djo is where he thinsk scum is -da0d as number #1 pick after retracting case on night 2 -implies he thinks djo is scum after mementoss case -doesn't want da0 lynched now -kush scummy -kush/djo again -Austin #1 based on vote sharing, when he already asked austin about it he said it was "belieable" never pushed austin all day -da0d put #8 pick townier than thrawn himself. End Result: Austin is lynched and da0d is moved from #1 scum read to #1 town read. He waits a long time after saying he thinks da0 is lynched to change him way down, and yell at people for lynching da0d. Results in a last minute lynch on austin when he never explicitly said why he thought austin was scum other than, seems not like town meta with no support. Wtf happened to DJO KUSH? HMMM wtf. Here are some clear contradictions: + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote: ON vs Hopeless If they were separated I'd probably vote for both of them to advance. ON because he's the biggest lurker, and his voting antics have just been completely anti-town and he doesn't seem to know/care about it. For hopeless, I like the case djodref made against him. + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote: As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 Very wishy washy and this is that all might important matchup and he wants hopeless to advance. On October 13 2012 04:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Right now I'm not wanting to lynch djo or hopeless. I do want to lynch sandroba, but I'm not sure about ON. At this point I think a policy lynch could be in order. So I want it to be sandroba vs ON, with sandroba getting lynched. or wait now he changed his mind, still wants sandroba his best scum read lynched, Not sure about ON, goes on to say not sure about ON 100 times before saying meh bus time and votes him On October 14 2012 16:51 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah the bolded part just screams noob mafia Ok you voted for sandroba because: "One first thing on my vote against San is at the time as default choice between two people I found scummy." but here are the most recent cases of you talking about either of them: So please show me where you found ON scummy. In fact it seems like you weren't "thinking" ON was scum... your reason for voting him was always policy related: Oh and I'm not really convinced about memtoss.... I don't buy that he was bussing ON. His votes for ON came at a time when a bus would have been extremely stupid or extremely clever and I doubt he's capable of either. I think he was the first person to actually vote ON. Maybe a scum memtoss would have figured that sand is getting lynched no matter what but I doubt he'd have taken that risk. Case on da0d + Show Spoiler + On October 15 2012 06:44 thrawn2112 wrote: i'm very confident on da0 being scum, and i think it's somewhat likely prplhz is too so that doesn't leave much room for other scumreads. Also ON voted djo so there's that... Only reason I have to suspect djo is because he didn't actually have a vote in the last round so we have no real way of determining his "true motives".... and his last intentions were to vote for sand. His last reads were prp and hiro and I'd liek to know the explanations for those as well as what he thinks about da0 very confident + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 15:13 thrawn2112 wrote: There's a lot in the tone and motive of da0's posts that make me think he is scum, but I'm having a hard time differentiating that from what might just be language barrier problems, or general first time noobishness. Here are some examples. They include just general weirdness, hints of insincerity, and chiming in with agreement whenever people defend him. + Show Spoiler + On October 10 2012 13:24 da0ud wrote: Hi again guys ! Happy to be here with ya all ! I am french leaving in HK and pretty bored at work currently so this game will have my full attention. This is my first MAFIA game on a chat thread, but I have played a lot with real friends in real life. So it should be pretty cool. One first guess on the voting system is that people who are already given a BYE from first round are at a disadvantage (cause they have one less chance to be out) and on top of that they are higher seeded hence at a second disadvantage in case of 0-0 tie. Pretty unfair isn't it. I guess it must have been a master plan from the Alien Invaders who put themselves all as the lowest seeded people. I would put focus on eliminating players number 10, 11 and 12 this round if possible. What do you guys think ? At least i am trying to put a lead on who is what.... Daoud. On October 11 2012 14:38 da0ud wrote: Well, as he was the only one really supporting me, he could easily get my trust and getting me to follow his lead on who to vote against, etc. If he was mafia, then that would be another bullet for the mafia team (ie : getting a townie to follow their voting pattern). Maybe what i say doesn't make sense, but : * Let say we are 9 townies, 3 mafia. * One of the mafia supports the "weird" guy (who is the only one who reads the theme of the game :D) * Let's assume this guy is now 40% following the conviction of the manipulator. * Town is now made of 3.4 mafia vs 8.6 townies, and the plague is spreading. But I am not that dumb (or am I ?), I'll make decisions by myself. The alien invaders "joke" is just..... idk. Later on he said it was an attempt to get discussion moving but I do not see how he could expect anyone to take that idea seriously. Then he talks about "mini scum"..... just wtf once again. Da0 what were you talking about with mini scum? Another point against him is that he laid down 9 votes on sandroba. That's already been addressed by people on both sides of the da0 debate but it still stands as a fact. He talked about his vote for sand and here was my initial take on his post: + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 16:51 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah the bolded part just screams noob mafia Ok you voted for sandroba because: "One first thing on my vote against San is at the time as default choice between two people I found scummy." but here are the most recent cases of you talking about either of them: So please show me where you found ON scummy. In fact it seems like you weren't "thinking" ON was scum... your reason for voting him was always policy related: Oh and I'm not really convinced about memtoss.... I don't buy that he was bussing ON. His votes for ON came at a time when a bus would have been extremely stupid or extremely clever and I doubt he's capable of either. I think he was the first person to actually vote ON. Maybe a scum memtoss would have figured that sand is getting lynched no matter what but I doubt he'd have taken that risk. Also, he was who Sandroba most wanted us to kill, and from I can tell it's the same deal with ET. Both of those guys are dead. Sandroba's lst words about da0 were: The only reason why I think he could be town is because his scumhunting posts show a lot of townie paranoia. Like a lot. And this being his first game that would make sense for him to be overly paranoid. And he has shown pretty consistent suspicion of memtoss but eh, scum or town would do that. So for now he's gonna stay at number 3 spot,on my list and will possibly move up higher because I'm not confident that he's scum but there is so much against him (his posts seem forced, he was sandroba's and et's lynch choice, he voted 9 for sandroba)that it'd be dumb to let it slide. Also I think a do0 flip would be extremely useful. As for austin.... bleh. I've played 1 game with him (town austin) and I've obsed a couple of his town games and he just seemed so much more straightforward and useful than he's being in this game. His word count is still really high but his post just seem way fluffier than what I'd come to expect from him. Also I still can't get over the vote sharing thing from D1. I can not understand how any town player would do that.... first of all that means that you don't trust your own judgement which I don't think that'd be the case with a town austin, and it also means that you have almost confirmed town reads in the people you're giving the votes to. He did it on D1... could he really have been so sure that kush and I were town at that point? Also, at the time he made the offer I believe kush was strongly in favor of lynching sandroba, and I was on the fence but I'd been the main person pushing sand's case all game. I am not convinced that town austin would have shared votes like that. As for hiro, he got the 2 spot on my list basically because of process of elimination. I don't have the slightest town read on him, nor do I have the slightest scum read. That is very worrying and in the past when there's a player that I'm not really concerned with because they are off the radar, big surprise they end up being scum. I'll look through his filter next. Retracts case on da0d after night 2: Makes da0d his number 1 scum read for his list On October 18 2012 01:20 thrawn2112 wrote: 1 da0ud 2 austin 3 hiro 4 Djodref 5 mementoss 6 kushm4sta 7 hopeless1der 8 thrawn2112 kush lets discuss da0 + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2012 13:38 thrawn2112 wrote: no I don't want to lynch him because I don't like lynching replacements, especially when the replace in with like 24 hours left till lynch. As for your case, I don't think the "not giving potato to prplhz" is a good argument. Reading through his filter at that time it really looked like he had good reasons for not doing so. (He planned on giving prplhz the potato right before the 24 hour mark) Other than that the main stuff everyone (including me) has been citing as suspicious behavior was his lurking... well when he gets a replacement that makes me think he has legitimate real life reasons for his low activity. That does not point to townie or scummy... it just means he didn't have enough time to properly play the game so I can't make any judgement calls based on the fact that he was a lurker. Other than that, the posts he did make were well reasoned etc so I don't see anything damming enough to lynch his replacement. At this point my read on hiro is basically null and it's all going to be based off my read on VE from now on. Reaons not to lynch Ve Again VE townie no interest in him On October 19 2012 07:23 thrawn2112 wrote: 1 austin 2 kushm4sta 3 djodref 4 mementoss 5 hopeless1der 6 thrawn 7 VE 8 da0ud 1.5 hours later On October 19 2012 08:46 thrawn2112 wrote: i say we lynch djod then probably VE The flip floppiness on the ultimate reason he lynched austin. BTW TONS of scum motivation for taking out town austin, esepcailly after the blue claim. Asks austin about the vote sharing and this is his response On October 18 2012 03:37 thrawn2112 wrote: because I don't think that scum austin would defend scum da0 so hard @austin that is a very believable response Than here is where he decides austin needs to die. On October 19 2012 05:24 thrawn2112 wrote: austin I think it's time for you to answer for your vote sharing. may god have mercy upon your soul 1 austin 2 djodref 3 mementoss 4 kushm4sta 5 hopeless1der 6 thrawn 7 hiro 8 da0ud list is obviously adjusted so that da0 and the replacement won't get lynched There is a couple more instances of this but the austin one is the most fucking damning. In conclusion THRAWN is too fucking scared to ever hard commit to who he thinks is scum ALL game. This is scum motivated because it throws around too many suspects and he since he doesnt hard commit to his reads, ever or pushes them, he can just switch whenever it is nessecary to push scum agenda. AKA killing austin the good town player, whenever he was wanting to lynch djo and kush and even da0 at the beginning of the day. Here is what thrawns response was too all his shit flip flopping and never committing to anything. On October 18 2012 23:59 thrawn2112 wrote: I like flopping, I don't care if it makes me look bad, I'll point out anything that looks suspicious regardless of how many people I end up talking about and I'll take a hard stance once I'm convinced I'm right. Is it the most townie way to play? No but I care less about how townie I look and more about figuring out who's scum. D1 was pretty stupid because all we learned was that ON is scum and hopeless is prob town, and D2 was spent going "lolz prp/da0 are last two scum." So we haven't exactly had the most pro-town atmosphere in which to make solid reads. I think its fairly obvious he doesnt give 2 shits about finding scum, and only trying to look town. He doesn't push hsi scum reads or really care at all if anyone agrees with him. He changes his mind about his scum read less than 24 hours later FREQUENTLY. How can you have a hard scum read on da0d and then think hes fucking #1 town? THIS JUST DOESNT Happen in town mentality, without proper justification!!!!! Part 2: If Austin is town, mementoss is scum Did Thrawn just fucking forget about this post? He wants to lynch Djo and VE now, but remember what he said he thought if austin flipped town? On October 18 2012 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote: But what still doesn't make sense about is that I can't justify to myself ever being willing to share any of my votes... but there was a TON of hesitation about sandroba vs ON so I can see you taking that risk with your votes. Austin I decided to work out what my new list would be, in a hypothetical scenario where I decide you're town. It comes out looking like this: 1 mementoss 2 Djodref 3 hiro 4 da0ud 5 austin 6 kushm4sta 7 hopeless1der 8 thrawn That would be my new list of most scum to most town. Mementoss gets the first place because your case against him is very convincing. I'll have to go through his filter again myself but every time you've made a memtoss case I've found it convincing. Of course that list would have to be adjusted based on what everyone else is doing, because we are in fact listing our top choices for lynch instead of our top scumreads. But anyways what do you think about djodref? I think that if you're town, then the remaining scum are probably within mem, djo, hiro. Da0 is a guy like kush said, I don't have strong convictions about. My gut read tells me that his scumhunting has extremely newbie townie traits but on the other hand I don't want to ignore the reads of ET and sand. This post rubbed me wrong extremely when I read it. It espeically makes him look scum now that austin is confirmed town. He was trying to set up a mislynch if he changed his mind on austin being town, or if austin flipped town. The list makes 0 sense anyways, I made the case on djo how can I be 1 and djo be 2? He says all of austins cases have been convincing on me, YET he has never mentioned them, or commented on them before this. He never fucking says I think mementoss looks scumm cause of this case austin made. This post alone is worth lynching thrawn from. There is no town motivation for this, I can even imagine how you could think this logic up as town. He also says he doesn't have strong convictions about da0d yet its the only case he has made since day 2, and only the third case of the game. Part III Another Weird post/ angry defense against kush: On October 18 2012 22:37 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin what are your thoughts about the possibility of a mementoss/hiro scumteam? When I look at the final brackets and color in who I am sure of as town, after looking at it those are just the two names that jump out at me. This is after thrawn said I was townie looking as hell, yet these names stand out to him after colouring in his town readS? Why wasn't I a town read after he called me townie as hell. Here is thrawn showing frustration for anyone putting any pressure on him all game. On October 18 2012 21:13 thrawn2112 wrote: If you're going to admit to ignoring everything I say then you may as well claim scum... you can't possibly be 100% convinced that I'm scum so either go ahead and claim scum or stop acting like scum kush. + Show Spoiler + And yes your post did serve as a wake up call. I've had kinda a shitty game and I haven't been taking it too seriously, especially after the D1 flip. I think yesterday or so was the first time I've been truly sober since the game's started. On October 18 2012 21:23 thrawn2112 wrote: When I said I'm going to ignore you I was talking about your case against me.. I see no reason to bother myself with it. Oh and the passive aggressive name dropping shit is annoying too but no reason to comment on that either. In conclusion: I would lynch thrawn tommorrow in all my power. Him lynching austin is the straw that broke the scums back. He was consistently flip flopping his words all day 3 and yet lynches austin, after having much more consistent reasoning to lynch djo all day. He went from da0 scum to da0 townier than himself. His inconsistnecies throughout the game, espeically day 3 have been ridiculous. His unwillingness to commit to any scum reads or try to push them is scum motivated so he can switch off to whaetever benefits his team. Everyone re-read day 3 and see how actively useless thrawn was to deciding/pushign a scum lynch. All he did was ask questions, sit back and change his mind 5 times. Bonus: I might not get a chance to go through it, but thrawn has been defending da0d since day 1 and quickly backed off the case he made on him. Could DEFINTILY be his partner. He softly defends him in a lot of ways hopefully I can show. | ||
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In order of most likely to be scum with thrawn 1. da0d - soft defenses of him spread all out (easy to find) -makes a case and quickyl backs off - hard defense on him to lyunch town austin 2.kush -possibility of bussing -thrawn has had a random town read on kush all game and casually mentions him as a scum option but always quickly disregards 3. VE Hiro -Defends VE hiro hard day 3 -says lets lynch in order of djo than VE. Of couse is djo is town game is over 4. Hopeless -100% agrees with my logic -has super town read on him -I doubt this case but I coulda been wrong about this and fucked up the game . Certainly hope this isnt the case Dont take my word for the 2nd scum read, lynch scum thrawn and figure it out from there. | ||
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Fuck the mechanic tomorrrow, push all out for scum reads. EVEN if you think VE is scum don't lynch him tomorrow lynch his team mate, lynching him off basically nothing is FAR FAR FAR too risky. | ||
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On October 20 2012 04:13 thrawn2112 wrote: Hey kush. Scum team -- v e and mementos. Look how mementos is like GUys IM gONNa BE NK'd. So fake and forced. If not scum then most arrogant post I've ever seen. V e is scum for reasons This confirms my thoughts about thrawn. I am loving this reaction. Scum leaving me alive is suicide unless they want to put doubt on my opinions. | ||
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On October 20 2012 04:15 Mementoss wrote: Maybe if I talk about how im the NK alot they will leave me alive, and I can be part of killing scum. Also it will narrow down the field giving me a good shot | ||
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On October 22 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote: gg. very well played Djodref, I'm impressed. I agree you played well. I made a case on you, but than every post you seemed like town afterwards. All I can say is everyone part of that austin lynch that was town omfg after that I was just on full tilt mode. | ||
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On October 22 2012 08:10 thrawn2112 wrote: lol kush i was actually scared that you were gonna lynch me all game, i knew i was off my meta and i was just waiting for you to pick up on it (still shouldn't have gotten lynched just for that tho) why did you lynch austin | ||
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On October 22 2012 08:13 thrawn2112 wrote: i actually think lynching ON fucked us over. we started D2 with almost the same info we had during D1 except with a bunch of extra "who bussed ON" wifom if we would have mislynched at least we would have gotten better reads on people there was no reason day 2 not to lynch into djo/kush after we made the assumption hopeless was town | ||
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On October 22 2012 08:14 Mementoss wrote: there was no reason day 3 not to lynch into djo/kush after we made the assumption hopeless was town | ||
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On October 22 2012 08:14 thrawn2112 wrote: i was completely prepared to save him but he said that his vote sharing was part of a plan to attract a mafia nk and I thought that was the most ridiculous thing i'd ever heard too bad I wasn't back like 10 minutes earlier, maybe it woulda been differnet | ||
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On October 22 2012 08:16 thrawn2112 wrote: lol mementoss plz stop gloating about losing, i don't want to get angry lol i already mad | ||
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On October 22 2012 09:36 austinmcc wrote: I did the same smiley counting thing D1, lol. Also saw all the "Hi all!"s in his newbie posts and that made his posting this game make more sense. Boooooooooooo. Sorry for being so wonky about my role, I still haven't gotten out of getting caught up in being blue and need to work on that. I still don't have a great handle on wtf happened D3, between some of the votes I got and why nobody changed votes. And yes, big thanks to the hosts. The format felt fun, and things ran smoothly. Very enjoyable game setup. yeah man to be honest town team was a bit stacked, too bad you used all your resources to tunnel me  and that all of day 2 everyone was like yeah fuck it lol. | ||
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On October 22 2012 09:45 thrawn2112 wrote: lol 45 min after night post but to be fair, with my filter there is bound to be a post where I get it right my problem this game was that I was in various states of intoxication all game long, and I couldn't remember my suspicions from one high to the next  man honestly you looked town but I couldn't understand why you didn't try to lynch or do anything with your suspicions other than state them and change them the same day lol. I guess I would say play more focused and confident. Also I was drinking for a majority of this game as well. | ||
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On October 22 2012 09:52 thrawn2112 wrote: what kush said about my meta is true... normally i am more focused/coherent/whatever. this game i honestly didn't have a good idea of what was going on therefore i didn't really have any lynches I wanted to push. it was like i was pretending to be town or something, i'm not exactly sure what happened. yeah that is what i couldnt stop myself from seeing after day 3 | ||
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On October 23 2012 00:35 thrawn2112 wrote: austin i did not think yuo were town. i thought out of all the people who could be lynched you were least town anyways it didnt help that kush and i were the only ones willing to talk to you that entire day i was just dissapointed because you wanted to lynch into djo/kush or implied it for the whole day, and then your like wow that case on djo is good. Than you go back to lynching austin for vote sharing more or less. | ||
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