EPTI'm a total newbie (playing now in NMM XXVIII as my first game ever on a forum) but I would like to try a themed game if you don't mind
/in
Looney Lynching Mini Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm a total newbie (playing now in NMM XXVIII as my first game ever on a forum) but I would like to try a themed game if you don't mind /in | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
It's going to be a long day ^^ When does the game is suppose to start ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm already on Wednesday here  | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm just dropping by because it's my lunch break now and I've just seen the game had begun already. For those who don't know it already, I'm a French guy and I work in Korea ^^ It's my second mafia game on a forum (I've just been cop on the NMM XVIII game) so I just hope to have better reads than last time. I'm on a business trip right now so I don't have much time but I'll my best to catch up tonight. I didn't put so much thoughts in the lynch rules but it looks easy for scum to avoid a lynch imo by voting their concurents in the early stages of the championship. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I think giving ourselves rules for voting is going to give mafia an opportunity to blend in and/or to take advantages of these rules. I guess it should be ok if we just vote for the people we find scummy. Moreover, the more time we discuss about the rules we should use, the less time we have for scumhunting. It's also a golden opportunity for the mafia to look like they are participating while discussing the rules. According to this, Hiropro and Daoud have made scummy posts so far because it looks like they want to focus the discussion of the lynch rules. Also Daoud first post came off as weird in my eyes. It looks like he's going to prepare an excuse like "I didn't understand today's lynch principle" for later. @Daoud What was your motivation for your first post ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I would like to say that I don't like people who are saying they are voting this one and this one but are not using the voting thread. I don't have a clear view on their motivations. So I'm going to show them the way I would like them to follow. On October 10 2012 19:48 kushm4sta wrote: voting momentoss because he's afk and I know his reads are bad voting original because austin has contributed way more already and he's known as a good player voting dauod because of his weird joke that made no sense... alien invaders what? bad reasons? yes subject to change? definintely This is an example of what I'm not going to do. On a side note, I don't like lurkers as well. ##Vote Memento ×1 original ×1 @hopeless would you mind explaining your gut feeling? Also I've just noticed that Kush ans ET have used the voting thread | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
what I find scummy is their insistance on the lynch mechanics. Their last posts end with open questions to discuss this subject even more. It's not enough for me to cast vote on them but I have hoped it could help us to drop this discussion for once and just start scumhunting. I believe that imposing ourself some rules is going to be detrimental for us and I don't want to argue about this. I'm not sure if I have addressed your concern so do not hesitate to ask me to precise some points. Good night ! | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
ok, I couldn’t express what I was thinking when I used the word motivation. I just really want people to be consistent with their vote here and their vote on the thread. I think it would help us to see who is commiting or not to what they proclaim in the thread. At least it would greatly help me, hence my votes ^^ | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
The feeling I got from them is that they were willing to spend more time discussing the lynch mechanics. I’ve compared them to sandroba and ET and I felt like those last ones want to close the discussion. I don‘t think that I have said that discussing lynch mechanics is scummy. What I wanted to say is that we cannot afford to much time doing this. So the people asking for more insight on their views are scummy imo. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 10 2012 20:30 Mementoss wrote: Guy, I wanted you to be town, why did you have to scum slip. For those that didn't catch it, ET implies he knows that how much more votes town has compared to mafia, implying he knows how many mafia there is. Minutes later, he asks if mafia count is known. Where did he get this number in the first place? I don't think he would just make it up out of thin air. EchelonTee x1 I've voted Mementoss because of this post. I was drunk yesterday and I thought he cast a vote in the thread without using the voting thread. At this time, ET also hadn't cast his vote on Homeless and I didn't understand his formatting reasons. I would have voted him if I could. I was totally wrong (I see it now) and I'll remove this vote. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I didn't like kush calling mementoss a bad player. It doesn't promote a good atmosphere for the discussion. But it fits his meta so I'm going to give him a pass on this one. I've not revealed anything scummy in his filter except that so he doesn't deserve a vote. prplhz's filter is full of one liners and I find his town read on me very scummy. The reason he gives for it is ridiculous. I'll drop a vote on him before going to work. @kush From what I understand, your last post in the voting thread is going to be taken in account for the final votes. I was just unvoting Mementoss with this post. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I wanted the discussion to stop and I've found this very post scummy. On October 10 2012 12:28 HiroPro wrote: So do you agree with my plan or not? Any ideas of your own? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Homeless has to bring more content so I want him to advance over Mementoss, he gets my vote. Prplhz is giving a town read for something I find insignificant and I don't like his posting style so far. I hope he is going to shape up. He gets my vote. OriginalName gets my vote for lurking hardcore. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm finally back from work and I'm going to relax a little bit then catch up with the filters. If you don't mind to give me a little time, I'm planning to give my thoughts on today's MUs. But first things first, @People who voted for me I can understand that you find me scummy. I think for the most part it comes from this post On October 10 2012 19:31 Djodref wrote: I totally second Thrawn's last post. I think giving ourselves rules for voting is going to give mafia an opportunity to blend in and/or to take advantages of these rules. I guess it should be ok if we just vote for the people we find scummy. Moreover, the more time we discuss about the rules we should use, the less time we have for scumhunting. It's also a golden opportunity for the mafia to look like they are participating while discussing the rules. According to this, Hiropro and Daoud have made scummy posts so far because it looks like they want to focus the discussion of the lynch rules. Also Daoud first post came off as weird in my eyes. It looks like he's going to prepare an excuse like "I didn't understand today's lynch principle" for later. @Daoud What was your motivation for your first post ? I would like to say that at the time I've made this post, the conversation in the thread was mainly about the lynch mechanics and I really didn't like it because scumhunting didn't even start. So I've noticed this post from Hiropro On October 10 2012 12:28 HiroPro wrote: So do you agree with my plan or not? Any ideas of your own? and this post from Daoud On October 10 2012 15:30 da0ud wrote: Indeed, this was not to be taken seriously. However, I am not sure why receiving a BYE on first round would not make you more likely to be lynched in the end. I have no problem with people discussing lynch mechanics and proposing some plans (if they have time to spare for this) but I think that orientating the conversation into this direction like the post from Hiro is scummy and trying to argue over something obvious like Daoud's post is scummy as well. I would like to add that I totally knew that Daoud was my opponent but it was not a reason for letting pass this, especially after his introduction post where he looked like he misunderstood the basic principles of this game. On a side note, Daoud really looks like a newb townie. I advice him to be careful with early association cases because I also thought I got the complete scumteam on D1 of my last newbie game In a result I just have been tunneling our town MVP until my death... And one last thing before studying the MUs. @Hopeless On October 11 2012 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'll ask again since no one responded last time: WILL YOU BE AVAILABLE AROUND THE DEADLINE (YES/NO)? PLEASE SELECT ONE RESPONSE. Hopeless1der: Yes Deadline is 11am for me and I have a meeting starting at 9am which should end my business trip. So I'm either going to be in meeting or on the way back to Seoul for the deadline. In the latter case, I should be able to check the thread with my phone. Now that I have answered your question, I would really like you to answer mine: Why are so concerned by people being around at deadline or not ? What are you trying to achieve exactly ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Hopeless/Thrawn It's kind of night and day. Thrawn is active in the thread, gives good contributions and points out what is weird in other players posts. So far I have a slight town read on him. I would expect very good reasons for anyone wanting him to advance. Hopeless on the opposite has almost contributed nothing. He also seems strangely obsessed with people being around at deadline or not. Which is even stranger when you consider that it seems ok for him to unvote everything without warning just before the deadline. I'll develop later on Hopeless, hopefully with some insight from his side, but I would go as far as saying that he is my top scumread at the moment. Prediction: Hopeless advances to the Ro4 3-0 HiroPro/OriginalName At first glance this MU looks easy but it could be more interesting that it looks like. Once thing I have learned in my previous game is that obvious scum players are usually town (Kush being an exception of this rule^^). We could all agree that ON looks bad, like very very bad. Casting last minute panic votes (on me on top of that) after zero posts and not even properly explaining his motives is scummy as hell. But thinking about it, I cannot imagine any mafia player being this obvious. So I want to give him a second chance for today and see if he can make it up before the deadline. HiroPro hasn't posting that much and I didn't like his post encouraging people to share their thoughts and plans about the lynch mechanics. Right now, I would vote him over ON but I don't want to spend more than 3 votes on this (I didn't keep my 10 votes like, let's say, Hopeless). Prediction: ON advaces against my will to the Round 4 5-3 Sandroba/Kush Regarding this entertaining MU, I'd like to state first that I know Kush meta for having read some newbie games but I don't know at all Sandroba. Kush is going to look scummy whatever his alignment. Given his low aggressive level in this game, I would opt for a scummy town Kush. But he has been clustering the thread a lot and I know that it could be his strategy as a scummy scum Kush. So null read for me atm. As he is difficult to read, Kush could become a liability for us in the endgame regardless of his alignment but he could give us good insight if he is town. Anyway, I wouldn't mind him to be more pressured because he slipped very quickly last game. Sandroba is also a null read atm. I would like him to post more before and I would not hesitate to vote him rather than Kush if it looks scummy. Prediction: Kush advances to the Ro4 5-4 (not planning to vote on this MU at the moment) Djodref/EchelonTee Please feel free to ask me some precisions about my motives and posts^^ I have just skimmed through his filter because I cannot pressure him with my votes this round. If you don't mind, I'm going to concentrate on other player's filters and let you decide which one of us is advancing. Nevertheless, I've noticed 2-3 things of interest:
I don't want to predict anything for this MU Votes coming soon, hoping for a quick feedback before going to bed... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
You are saying that crazy things happen during the few hours before the deadline yet you have removed your votes at the end of the round one. I find it paradoxal because, in my opinion, the way you can protect ourselves from crazy things to happen is too stick with our votes. Unvoting at last minute is giving more opportunity for MUs to be won be the dark horse. Last round, OriginalName could have reversed some MUs because you gave him room to do it. I can see town and mafia motivations for keeping 10 votes so I'll pass you that. I can see town and mafia motivations for knowing the schedule of the player so I'll pass you that. But I don't like the way you unvoted at all and I don't explain myself the aforementioned paradox. Could you please explain yourself? And last but not least, we don't have any trace of your voting intentions in the recap at the end of the round. It really looks like you don't want to play cards on the table. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'll check the thread when I wake up and I hope to be here for the deadline I'm sure to sleep better if I vote Hopeless before going to bed Hopeless x1 | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I finally got away from the meeting ^^ I just have caught up with the thread on my phone. First I would like to say that the predictions were a (failed) attempt to make my comments look like a starcraft MU preview. Thank you Kush for understanding me and believing in me Just a quick post about the people who are going to advance:
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
It's just that I didn't realize until late that the votes of ON on me were counting for this round. It felt like I was starting with an handicap but whatever... I don't want to get mislynched so I'll put more efforts in this game so everybody understand I can be a valuable asset for town Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon so you have to give me some more time. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
You are my top scumread at the moment so I want to go full force against you. As I might no be able to vote on the last round, I don't mind to spend all my votes on you this round. I'll come up with a case against within 10 hours. ON is a scummy lurker but, in my opinion, he is more lurky than scummy. And you are still scummier than him | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Could you sum me up what you have against sandroba ? I didn't take the time to look at his filter yet because he is my opponent for this round and I guessed he was going to be scrutinized enough. By the way, what do you think about my case ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
It's not possible for me to know which one of us is going to advance. I might not be able to be here at deadline so I might not even be able to check and last minute vote. I also prefer to clearly state my intentions right now rather than creating confusion at deadline by dropping suddenly 6 votes. I want Hopeless to advance and to be lynched today, regardless if I'm advancing or not. I also want my votes to be useful. I thought it through and I think the best thing was to use all my votes right now. The side effect is that people who would prefer ON to advance (or Hopeless to be eliminated) have also to commit their votes to achieve it and I really like this as well. By the way, I'm going out for the night and I don't know if I would be able to wake up before 11am tomorrow, if you know what I mean | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm just waking up and I have a serious hangover right now. Reading the thread has made my head exploding even more... I didn't expect this at all. I was thinking that Hopeless was going to OMGus vote me and that I would end up in the final (that was another reason for me to spend all my votes at this time but I didn't want to say it at that time). @Hopeless Why are you doing this to me ? I'm going to lose my sanity sailing the dark seas of the WIFOM again... Seriously, if you are town, you are just confusing everybody with your "plan" I need more time to process everything. I'll be around for a while and I'll give my thoughts about today's lynch and hopefully more. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 ! Concerning today's lynch, I don't have any more votes so I have basically no power to change anything. Yet I would like to use my words to convince you to lynch Sandroba over OriginalName. OriginalName I think everybody could agree that he is a total lurker. So let's look at the few things we have. His useless panic vote against is scummy as hell and his explanation for it was weak in my view because he calls me for a post I have made drunk and me backing off from this post later on. I was drunk and I've made a mistake at that time so it was natural for me to back off. But I understand it could be suspicious in another player eye so it could be a valid reason to vote me. Regarding his vote, I think a scum player would have avoided voting like this. And there it is, that's all we have from him ! I'm saying that it not enough to lynch him today. Sandroba Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter. Also, his unexplained hunch for me is a scumtell. I've been looking bad enough (and from my first post apparently) to advance until the semis but he is one of two players to have a town read on me (hello prplhz!). Moreover, he didn't bother to address this point. Regarding his last post, I was also drunken yesterday, I'm having a big hangover now, most likely I'm going to be drunk tonight again but I'm still trying to invest myself in this game. I imagine he is that disinterested right now because he is scum. If I had votes right now, I would use them to vote Sandroba. Hence, I recommend you to lynch him. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:23 prplhz wrote: About Djodref and da0ud I have a strong town read on Djodref right now pretty much because of his very first post. He thinks it looks easy for scum to avoid a lynch which isn't something that scum think. It's a 96 hour day1 and they're pretty much forced to give reads on everybody, no tunneling. I think that this looks hard for scum and scum must feel a lot worse off. This is the clearest town tell in anybody for me so far. In da0ud's first post: I think this looks like a classic scum jokey wobby post. Especially the bolded part. So I have been looking at his filter and I've discovered a lot of questions and short posts, but unfortunately not a lot of content. @prplhz I would really appreciate you sharing with us all the info you have gathered with your questions here and there. I wouldn't mind if it was a long and articulate post. I'm starting to wondering if you are active in your scumhunting or just pretending to be active I also have been suspicious of HiroPro from the start because he was encouraging people to discuss about the lynch mechanics. I don't like the fact that I have been his top scumread because I know my alignment but I can understand that some of my posts look scummy and his reasons made some sense. But I really don't like the way is dropping me at all. On October 13 2012 10:19 HiroPro wrote: man. even for a checkin post, that was lame sandroba. I changed my mind on dodref. After reading his earlier game (especially the nonsense he wrote about debears), I do think he could have wrote a bad case like that as town. @HiroPro I might be a newbie and my case might be bad but I'm at least investing myself in this game. So I wouldn't mind you showing me how to make a good case because I'm not able to find any so far in your filter. I would even go as far as there is not so much content in your posts. Also, from what I understand, ON is on your scumlist, but I think we can safely assume that have more than one scum in this game. Who are your top scumreads now that you are dropping me ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Please call me Djo ^^ I'm feeling lonely in my timezone... @thrawn while you are here, what do you think about prplhz and hiro ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. You did not stand up enough to prevent me from advancing iirc. And your last post looks like a caught scum trying to disrupt the town while he still can. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
By the way, I've decided to give Hopeless a second chance: he might have played scummy on purpose. But from now on, I don't want to see any scummy thing in his filter. And if it turns out that he is town, I expect him to put a lot of effort to find the scum to compensate for the confusion I've been through because of him. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 14 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote: I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them. I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 14 2012 04:36 prplhz wrote: I'm here and kind of up to date. Someone asked for some more transparency from me so I'm going to say that I agree with EchelonTee's assessment that Hopeless1der is probably town. Yeah, I've also asked you for longer posts but I still can wait a little. Regarding Hopeless, I still have some doubts but him "breadcrumbing" his plan with the following quote and his defense of my case make some sense. On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. @Hopeless Regarding the part in bold font in the spoilered post from you, was it also a reference to your plan ? + Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 14 2012 09:28 austinmcc wrote: Oh i'm not saying they're both town or both scum. It's more just ... if we're going to kill one, and I don't really think either is super scummy, I'd rather take the safer lynch. I want a townsand around more, and I want a scumON around less, so ... I'm more willing to lynch ON. Ok, I see. I had a little misunderstanding here. By the way if you don't really think either is super scummy, it's too bad you didn't use your votes to make scummier people advance in the previous stages then (it's just a joke, I've seen your explanations for it)Personally, I would still vote for Sandroba if I could but I guess it depends on your level of conviction for him to be scum. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
So is this standard to have a total lurker in every scumteam ? It's the case in all my games so far | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 14 2012 11:20 thrawn2112 wrote: so this means there is likely scum among ET, da0ud, hopeless correct? The switch to sandroba happened pretty late so I don't it's likley that all the remaining mafia would be been bussing. imo the only possible busser candidates are kush and prp... hiro maybe too but his switch was pretty early on and a buss was not needed at that point. I still don't like the way austin gave away the majority of his votes.... i doubt he was bussing but by giving away his votes he was giving away his responsibility for the lynch so i'm a tiny bit wary of him of course that all excludes the possibility of sand being scum, but i'm getting a pretty town vibe on him purely based on my reads of his emotions before and after lynch I would also have voted for Sandroba so I feel left out | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 14 2012 11:51 kushm4sta wrote: honestly my reads are shit right. I've just been focused on people up for lynch. You are right, your read on me is shit | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Could you explain your scum read on me ? I've just skimmed through your filter and it looks like you have suddenly changed your mind. But I may have missed something because your filter is a clusterfuck ^^ | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
First of all, I would like to address your concerns regarding my votes again Hopeless at round 3, when ON was facing him. I understand that they put me at a bad position right now. At the time when I've have dumped all my votes on him, I was pretty sure he was a mafia player. In my eyes, he was the scummiest but we didn't know yet that he was playing that way on purpose (regardless of his possible alignment). As I explained earlier, I was expecting him to dump all his 9 votes on me in response (in a total mafia OMGUS way) so I believed the chances were very high to have a Hopeless/Djodref final. I thought the mafia would take this final because I don't look so good and it's easier to push a mislynch on a newbie. I was all-in and I wanted Hopeless to be lynched even if it was by risking me to be in the final. So I went out quite satisfied with my move but when I finally emerged from my drunken sleep, I was very surprised to read Hopeless answer to my case. I would have expect anything but him giving me a town read. I've spent a lot of time thinking why a scum Hopeless would do that. Before going totally nuts, I've decided to stop WIFOMing myself and to reserve my judgement for later. I'm at work right now and I don't have time to elaborate so much but I would prefer prplhz to explode with the Hot Potatoe today. I was already suspicious of prplhz before all the Sandroba vote thing but it strongly confirms it. I'm not totally sold on Daoud yet. I've had a newb townie read on him until R3. His defense is very bad but he has been consistent with his read on Sandroba. Also I don't see his last scummate (prplhz?) let him post or vote like he did. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Do you have any intent to pass the bomb to me ? I would like to burn my hide but I don't want to really hide... @daoud If you really are town, doing it this way would not help us find the scum. They would just go on holidays and wait for you to blow up ^^ The only information we would gather at the end is that you were town (but are you?). If you play the potato game, we may have more discussion and it is going to help us to find the remaining mafia players. On top of that, nobody can make sure that you are going to be lynched today. If you want to hold the potato until you explode, it's your choice, but I don't think it is a townie decision. It looks more like a caught scum behavior (retaining information for his buddies). | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
@daoud If the majority is wrong about you, you have to prove them wrong. If you are really town, you shouldn't hold onto the potato for these reasons:
That's why I see you wanting to keep the potato as a scum move. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 15 2012 13:17 Hopeless1der wrote: That gives absolutely no reasoning towards how me being last to post implies I'm scum. If you are present in the thread when the night ends, you are more likely to be the one who sent the NK. It's retarded but it could make some sense if you don't know about the blues. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
By the way I'm arguing with you about this because I would prefer prplhz to blow up rather than you. So I would appreciate you giving him back the potato if (when ) you are going to hold it.So I'm officially requesting you to give the potato to prplhz if you can because I think he is more likely to be scum than you. You both look really bad but I'm not feeling like the both of you are scum. This game would be too easy and it's usually not the case. And, in my opinion, you shouldn't care about what the majority wants if you are really town. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I would appreciate everybody to burn his hide. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
What do you think about everybody burning their hide ? I did it already but I would like everybody to do it. Honestly I'm asking you because I think you would add more weight to this idea. So far, I have a town read on you and I would be surprised if it wasn't the case for everybody. I | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 15 2012 13:02 da0ud wrote: I would pass it to Mementoss or Hopeless, as they were the last two ones to participate in the chat during the night. /snip Mem with two posts only one at 11pm (HK time) then the last one before day 2 at 2:11am (a bit too close the Day2 official post) Hopeless first and only post at 1:50am and Day 2 starts at 2.14am. So i will put Hopeless > Mementoss as i always thought Mem was scum, but Hopeless was too me the limiting factor of the night decisions to me. I will hence KEEP the potato until you ask me to pass it to where the majority (let say 5, i wont include myself) decides. @daoud Did you decide to not consider Hopeless anymore ? Would you still follow the majority, even if they don't ask you to give the bomb to Hopeless ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 15 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote: @daoud Did you decide to not consider Hopeless anymore ? Would you still follow the majority, even if they don't ask you to give the bomb to Hopeless ? oopsie, I've said Hopeless for the give he sould give the bomb to but I meant Mementoss in my previous post... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I've just read your filter and I've found more town reads than scum reads... Could you share with us your current scum reads ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
After looking at prplhz filter, I've found:
I know there is nothing much here new but I was already suspicious of prplhz and I'm sure right now that he is scum. I agree that Daoud filter doesn't look much better but, while reading it with my newb townie confirmation biased goggles, I've felt that he may have tried to find scum by looking at vote patterns and lynch mechanics rather than people posts. During R1, he aslo have been OMGUSing almost everybody who was attacking him (me for my early attack on his first posts, Sandroba for his hunch, Kush for voting him). I would expect a newb scum to be more likely to conciliate. All of this could make sense from a newbie town player which doesn't clearly know all the principles of this game (no knowledge of the blue roles for example, ninja voting, etc...). My feeling is that we definitively have a scum between the two but not that the two of them are scum. Honestly, if they were both scum, I would expect them to concede right now. I'm really more confident that prplhz is the scum out of them two. I would be happy to see them passing the potato to each other | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I would like to see you post more. It's very hard for me to have an opinion on you right now and I don't like this. I know I have not so much posts but the thread is mostly dead when I'm posting. I don't think it's the case for you guys. @Hopeless I'm not forgetting you nor forgiving you | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I have a town read on thrawn because he's promoting good discussion in the thread, he is active and he is clearly trying to find scum. I have a town read on kush from his meta. But I would like him to put more efforts on scumhunting to be sure. It's more difficult for me to read austin and ET because it's the first time for me to play with them, I'm leaning towards town for ET because I feel like he is honest in his posts. I can't see any other intention that trying to find scum, also dumping ON like he did would make no sense at all for scum. For austin, I'm also leaning towards town. I really liked his mementoss case and he looks clearly invested in the scumhunt. So, for the last scum, I'm torn between Mementoss and Hiro and I have a special option on Hopeless. Hence my previous post. I would say Mementoss right now but I've just been reading other people opinion so I need more time to think by myself. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Only two people can hide now so you should name two people you're not going to give the potato so they can hide. You could even threaten them to give them the potato if they don't By the way, I'm trying to burn my hide right now so I hope you don't want to give it to me ^^ | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 15 2012 20:48 Mementoss wrote: Also, I'm gunna try to shy away from the connection cases with ON. Simply for the fact that ON was the perfect bus target. He was useless, and inactive so was guaranteed to get lynched eventually and gave easy town credibility on any one voting him. It also gives scum a chance who voted him, to shift the attention off themselves by using oh he voted for ON not to move on in this matchup, SCUM SCUM. So yeah, I'll take it into account when reading filters, but I think ON was probably bussed. @ET Well, according to mementoss, we shouldn't look into that ON stuff anymore ^^ | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 15 2012 22:25 EchelonTee wrote: I don't care if you give me the bomb because I'm just going to give it back to you. If you hide, then I'll give it to da0ud. In fact I'd prefer you give it to me because I know exactly what I want to do with it. I do find it amusing that you're trying to threaten me or something? @ET If you are town and planning to give the potato back to him, why don't you hide ? The result is the same and you don't put yourself at risk at all. I don't understand why you would like to have the potato to give it back to him. I mean, right now, prplhz has the potato and I'm perfectly fine with it. The longer he has it, the happier I am. If I could use a hide to make him carry it longer I would. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why did you hold onto it like this if you were town ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
He should have made the potato circulating because we would have more info at our disposal like who gave the potato to who and when they use their hide or not. I also understand that he had to take one for the team sooner or later given his position but it's not like he wouldn't have got the potato back at some time. Shit, we were tunneling him so much we made him bomb suicided... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 16 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote: at least I tried to get people off the tunnelling da0d and prplhz all day and wasting the day. I tried to get people to pass the potato around so that this wouldn't happen. I may not have had time to read through everything and flesh out some big thoughts. But I was trying to tell people to get off them and pass the potato. Without the potato passing people didn't have to do anything. we let hiro do nothing we let kush do nothing and "plan" the rest of the games lynches you'd think ET who had a townie status by almost all would do something other than lolz prplhz scum and post a picture god damn. The funny thing is in a mini its more than likely all these guys are scum. so anti town. oh well, lets learn from it and have a better day 2. I will look into hiro and kush specifcally before nights end. I doubt scum will want to kill me. But just incase. I would like to add that we also let Hopeless do nothing on day2. He has been on holidays since he exposed us his brilliant plan. @Hopeless I gave you a second chance because your defense of my case made sense but I would have expected you to be less lurky and really investing yourself in this game after the brilliant plan. You doing almost nothing expect saying that prplhz and daoud were scum since then. I would appreciate you to shape up or I would have the regret to have to cote you again in the near future. @Hiro Why were you holding onto the bomb at the beginning on day2 ? And why were you active in the thread only at that time ? I want you to post MORE. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 16 2012 11:35 da0ud wrote: This is perfect non-sense hypothetical analysis. I did the same when saying scum people were not among the ones with a BYE in Day1. I am sure this was pure randomness. I have initially been considered scummy for that initial post. You should be considered less town for this last one ! I wanted to ask him why he didn't give directly the bomb to prplhz. As I've explained to you earlier, I don't see any reason why a town player would like the potato not circulating, because it retains potential information. Well, I was wrong on this because obviously, some townies like potato too much (sorry prplhz...). But this was the beginning of the day and he was like, parading with it. In my point of view, he should have started to make it circulate. That's why I want to know explanations for what his motivations were at that time because what he said about it is quite poor. On October 15 2012 06:02 HiroPro wrote: Do you think that the potato will blow up before 24 hours? No, the chance is almost none. After that though, it's a toss up. And I intend to make sure that you are the one with the potato at 24 hours. So yes I do control the lynch. I'm saying quite poor because he realizes after that he doesn't control the lynch by giving him the potato before the aforementioned 24 hours. This and his lurky habits made me suspicious of Hiro. I'm realizing I may should have kept this for a deadline post but I'll put him right now on my scum list. I have other players in mind right now but I need to work on the cases and re-read the thread first. I'll prepare everything for the deadline. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 16 2012 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote: lol here's a brief summary of the hopeless thus far: hey hopeless ur scummy yeah man i know sorry bout that lol I don't know if I could have summarized it better I would like to add "at first it was on purpose but then it was totally not on purpose" | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 16 2012 12:09 kushm4sta wrote: "Blindly" is the word you want. I will explain myself further tomorrow don't worry. Until then I welcome you to continue scumming up the thread, making my future case on you stronger. Why so OMGUS ? You better have a perfect case on thrawn and good explanations because right now I feel the need to read your filter again. And it is not a pleasant task. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm actually preparing walls and walls of text for the deadline. Nothing to do at work right now. It's not like I think I'm going to be targeted tonight. It's more for the fun of it ^^ | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 16 2012 21:04 kushm4sta wrote: @thrawn have you ever rolled scum before? Do not answer for liquid city since that game is ongoing. If you rolled scum what would you play like? austin ? Did you log on with kush account ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
But I would say I'm rather safe because I'm a newbie. I've had some time at work today so I've checked the filters and I've prepared some cases and a last will because I was bored. I wanted to post it before the deadline for the sake of the last will ^^ I also think it would give my cases more appeal because I'm on a different timezone and I feel a little left out. And people are here for the deadline so I hope there is going to be some discussion about it. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm excited and I cannot sleep so fuck it... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler + I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Why pushing Sandroba was not so relevant + Show Spoiler + Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense. Why the association case with ON is not so relevant + Show Spoiler + ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know. Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this. The final reasons to lynch Daoud + Show Spoiler + If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Conclusion Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why we should lynch Hopeless Here are the main reasons why I'm supporting an Hopeless lynch ! Hopeless is
Scummy + Show Spoiler + First of all, Hopeless admits himself that he is scummy but he has played like this on purpose until a certain point. I agree that he did that on purpose. But I'm more and more uncertain of what he was trying to achieve exactly. For reference, here is the response from Hopeless to my first case against him. + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: My responses are in red, primarily within the spoilers After this, I would have expected him to shape up his game and I have called him on it but it's not really better. Just read by yourself, it's quite short and quite obvious. He has been totally sheeping on daoud and on prplhz and he doesn't really care who to lynch between the two of them. In his own opinion Yeah I just read my own filter...I look like shit. Again. This time unintentional. I gave you a second chance but I'm buying your explanations anymore. Lurky + Show Spoiler + Once again, it's pretty obvious if you have ever read his filter. What really irks me is his low presence during D2. It looks like there was nothing interesting for him once it was quite obvious that daoud or prplhz were going to explode with the potato. On October 15 2012 10:07 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay then, prplhz hides immediately. Hiro passes to mmt. Da0ud hides. Mmt passes to prplhz. Prplhz plays hot potato with da0ud until it goes explody And this is just after being sheeping for both the cases on daoud on prplhz. He doesn't even try to give us is preference. I bet it's because any of them would do for him. Very scum like. Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + On October 15 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: The general consensus (which I agree with) is that one of da0ud or prplhz should be lynched. Personally, I think da0ud is more likely scum. The lynch mechanic itself has too much randomness to it for us to make a proper plan. At this point I have no intention of hiding. If I turn up with the potato, da0ud will be my first choice. Beyond that, I'd be looking for scummy things from other players. Things like MMT wanting us to ignore ON's flip to prove prplhz or da0ud being scum. They were both out in the first round. Other than the known information of scum flipping, it is extremely difficult to demonstrate scum motive for them when they are already safe from the lynch day1. The bulk of my read on da0ud revolves around his interaction with ON's situation. This only thing with some content that I could found from him lately... What speaks for him + Show Spoiler + I still believe he was playing scummy on purpose at the first time because there is no way to play like this if you are not doing it on purpose. But I don't know on which purpose. It doesn't make sense for scum to do this but it doesn't really make sense for town either so I don't know. But I wouldn't do this at all if my lurky scum partner was going to face me in semi-finals. Conclusion It would make no sense for him to be scum but he has such an anti-town play that I don't believe him to be town anymore. Right now, I believe he's playing a WIFOMy act ("too scummy to be scum") so I would support an Hopeless lynch. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why we should lynch Hiro I consider Hiro as my second scumread behind Hopeless. I'm going to present you why I'm supportive of a Hiro lynch tomorrow. First of all, I've been suspicious of Hiro since the beginning of the game. This suspicious was maybe ill-based at the beginning but it grew stronger when I've seen him tunneling me during the majority of D1. Anyway, here are my current reasons to lynch Hiro. In my eyes, he is
Lurky + Show Spoiler + Hiro has been a difficult read for me because he doesn't post so much. I've been reading his filter a few times (don't worry it's not too long) and I would have appreciated him posting more because I cannot see his motivations clearly. Hopeless and him have roughly same sized filters but Hopeless gives at least some excuses for his lurking while it looks like Hiro drops by whenever he feels like it (like the potato episode). He also totally disregarded my calls to him to participate more. He likes to ask some pertinent questions and to give his comments when people ask him for it but he is not giving anything by himself. Not pushing nor sharing his scumreads + Show Spoiler + So far, Hiro has only shared with us two of his scumreads: prplhz and me. I didn't see any attempt from him to push my lynch while I was a semi-finalist. He turned his scumread into a null read I guess for meta reasons. While letting Sandro advance at the same time. Regarding prplhz, I agree it was more difficult to really push for his lynch. But when you look at it, Hiro has suggested that prplhz was scum D1 and then accepted it for granted after that people have made their strong stances against him on D2. This move looks really scummy to me. Moreover, we don't know whoever else could be on his scumlist. Not giving the potato immediately to prplhz + Show Spoiler + Some of you might consider this is not a big issue but I think that we lost potential information during D2 because the potato was not circulating. As his behavior didn't reflect the reason why he told us he was not giving the potato, I think he might have other motives for it. And he still didn't answer me why ! Conclusion I have been suspicious of Hiro for quite a long time and I was not sure if I was focusing on the right person. The comments he made were giving good insight on the game but I didn't notice until lately that he is in fact a little reluctant to participate. The most incriminating part is that he didn't try to push prplhz but waited for the case to be made. And he likes potato ! | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
My Last Will If I were to die... Please lynch Hopeless and Hiro for me, Hopeless first. I'm confident that one of them is scum right now, if not both. Please listen and trust Thrawn, he is my biggest town read atm. Please don't mistrust Kush (but don't necessarily listen to him), he is my second town read Please do not lynch Daoud | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote: Got bored in hopeless1der and Djoref's filters, will look at them further tomorrow if I'm around, but I'm currently townie on da0ud but interested in his answer to the prplhz read changing, not-scummy on Hiro, and still big ol' scummy on mementoss. Nobody has answered the book club questions. Nobody has pointed out mementoss BEING useful/townie on D2, although there were posts of his that FELT useful/townie. That is quite scummy to me, as it shows someone wanting to LOOK useful/townie, without actually putting in the effort to BE so. I like to use CAPS sometimes to EMPHASIZE things. Djo, earlier you were: thinking Hopeless/mementoss, but you said you'd been reading other people's opinions. Overnight, you've now gone Hopeless/Hiro. Why do you think mementoss is not scum? Because Hopeless is back on my list and that Mementoss was trying to get people out of the prplhz/daoud situation during D2. Maybe I'm completely fooled but his posting style during D2 has greatly improved my opinion on him. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 04:39 kushm4sta wrote: Boo don't trust thrawn. A lot of your case relies on null tells like lurking. But yeah I don't think the case against Daoud is super strong. 1der and Hiro are scummy seeming nulls imo. Does anyone have meta insight into Hiro's play? Since he gave up on tunelling me earlier I haven't really noticed him. Hopeless clearly doesn't care who is going to explode on D2 and is sheeping hard but you are leaning null on him ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
 not his | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 07:58 kushm4sta wrote: If I die: first let me day I should not die. Either Austin or ET should die and if they don't something is very wrong. I read straight through about half the thread and I feel confident in my current scumreads. THRAWN Read this scum's filter. He is like one of those annoying little dogs that nips at people's heels. He has very little content of his own. Mostly what he does is wait for someone to say something kind of off then go Omg why you say that? DJODREF His scumstrat= make big posts, people will be impressed and think you are town. Look past the length and you will see his scumminess. ET That last minute ON vote ro4, do not trust that shit. Remember he is the one who brought it to everyone's attention originally. Scum may have known ON was getting modkilled and decided to take the townie points from leading the lynch instead. Also note how he had no points to spend either way ro2. He used more votes than necessary ro4 so he would not have to ve accountable for his vote ro2. His activity has been real low except for when attacked. Then he turns super sayain. He never even commented on sandroba until AFTER the lynch during the ro2. Kush out. Could you please back up your scumreads with more consistent elements ? For thrawn, I would like to see posts with clear scum motivations. In fact, I would enjoy to see a real case from you against him. For me, I usually post big posts because nobody is here when I'm posting. I don't enjoy discussing with myself that much. I would also appreciate a real case against me. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
1)Hopeless 2)Hiro 3) 4) 5) 6) 7)thrawn 8)djodref I'm not yet about the middle. I would go like austin=memento<daoud. Pretty sure that daoud is a real town newbie. I don't know anymore abouth kush. He would be 6th until the end of D2 but I want some cases and explanations from him for his scumreads to decide. Anyway what I really want today is to lynch Hopeless. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
It's interesting to get the list so people should put them in the voting thread regardless of who is going to be lynched today (according to the lists). With the parallel majority lynch (running until smthing like deadline - 1H), we decide what is the real target of the lynch today and we modify the lists in order to get the right guy lynched. I'm betting right now that it's going to be the same guy anyway. I propose a majority vote for this idea ! I'm in ! ##Vote Hopeless | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 09:50 Mementoss wrote: Nononononononononono No no more fucking scummy plans based on the lynch mechanics. Everyone do what they want. But more specifically (lol) put your top 2 as your best scum reads and explain them in detail. (cuz there is probably 2 left) than for the remaining rank them based on how townie you see them. Always put yourself last, not putting yourself last is a scum claim, don't put yourself in another position to save someone. lol I don't care I like my idea better I'm going to do what I want. But it looks like I'm already following your idea. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why is daoud at the top of your list ? If you have time, I would like to have your comments about my post : why we shouldn't daoud. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
@Hiro Where is the deadline post ? I'm quite happy with the lynch mechanics today because we are finally going to have more than one scumread from Hiro. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote: Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler + I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Why pushing Sandroba was not so relevant + Show Spoiler + Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense. Why the association case with ON is not so relevant + Show Spoiler + ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know. Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this. The final reasons to lynch Daoud + Show Spoiler + If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Conclusion Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. I have been preparing this post after prplhz tragic explosion, and I was wondering if daoud could be the scum of two like I've stated here. On October 15 2012 18:18 Djodref wrote: /snip About prplhz and daoud My feeling is that we definitively have a scum between the two but not that the two of them are scum. Honestly, if they were both scum, I would expect them to concede right now. I'm really more confident that prplhz is the scum out of them two. I would be happy to see them passing the potato to each other I've realized that we didn't think about prplhz lynch enough and thus I have considered carefully why we should lynch Daoud. At this time, I found out that he was more likely to be a mislynch than anything else, hence my night post. Unfortunately, his behavior right now at he beginning has made me doubt again. I was wondering if he could really be scum or not while re-reading the whole thread and I came to the conclusion that he is certainly a mislynch ! I'll elaborate in my next post. It's a bit WIFOMy but I think it's good | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. On October 14 2012 16:57 sandroba wrote: Just lynch da0ud, then prplhz, then you figure the rest out if the game is not over. On October 16 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote: need to lynch da0ud. tunneling is not an inherently bad thing. Another way to phrase it is "focusing on someone you think is scum and getting them lynched". Calling kush scummy for tunneling doesn't make sense. Tunneling is an inherent part of playing the game, unless you enjoy being unfocused. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie + Show Spoiler + So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie + Show Spoiler + I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now. You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway. After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post "lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays) And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg. I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. While writing this post, I've realized that people that are attacking daoud right now might be the bad guys (Hopeless and maybe kush also). And that Mementoss behavior during D2 was very much town. So I'm going to update my ranking ##Vote 1 Hopeless 2 Hiro 3 Kush 4 Austin 5 Mementoss 6 Daoud 7 Thrawn 8 Djodref Regarding my current ranking on kush, it's going to change depending on his promised elaborated cases against thrawn and me. I'm going to check Austin's filter right now. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
lol | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I totally agree with the logic of your post. I didn't think through all the mafia perspective when I've made my Hopeless case. I've noticed that it wouldn't make sense for a scum Hopeless to play scummy on purpose while he was going to meet his buddy on the semi-finals. On October 17 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote: /snip What speaks for him + Show Spoiler + I still believe he was playing scummy on purpose at the first time because there is no way to play like this if you are not doing it on purpose. But I don't know on which purpose. It doesn't make sense for scum to do this but it doesn't really make sense for town either so I don't know. But I wouldn't do this at all if my lurky scum partner was going to face me in semi-finals. Conclusion It would make no sense for him to be scum but he has such an anti-town play that I don't believe him to be town anymore. Right now, I believe he's playing a WIFOMy act ("too scummy to be scum") so I would support an Hopeless lynch. Nevertheless, if you believe he is town, please check his filter and tell me what he has achieved for town. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 21:08 thrawn2112 wrote: And look at the voting results: Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12 sandroba vs djodref 4-0 To me that very clearly suggests scum activity behind the hopeless vs ON matchup... and the two who voted for hopeless were kush/djo. I suggest everyone go and read the r3 part of the thread. I see only three possible scenarios: A) there is scum among kush/djo B) hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON I really think there is something too all this but lets please keep the discussion from reaching wifom insanity I have not been sharing all the WIFOM insanity I went through after the first time Hopeless admitted he was playing scummy on purpose. I don't want things like this to happen in the thread. Quick comments on your possible scenarios: A) I'm town, I am not sure about Kush anymore, I'm waiting for him to present real cases B) likely scenario because Hopeless was then playing scum on purpose C) Hopeless may be scum and play us an hell of a WIFOMy act but I don't see why the last scum would help him advanced over ON in this case Some comments on Hopeless being my top scumread atm: I'm either totally stupid or Hopeless is using great WIFOM against us As my reads are usually bad, I would say that I'm totally stupid. Still, I want everybody to answer the question : what Hopeless has done for the town so far ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 21:21 Mementoss wrote: My only problem now is I don't know who to lynch, but at least this is a starting point for discussion Well, I have the same problem, but I'm feeling really excited right now. There is some good discussion going on ^^ @Hopeless Please look at my second defense of Daoud, and tell me if you still want to lynch him after this. I didn't appreciate the fact that you have said that my first defense of him was piss-poor. But I'm realizing right now that I might have been totally stupid while tunneling you. Please step up and you're going to drop quickly from the top of my list. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
you have it all wrong, check the voting thread again. ET pushed ON over the edge 30 minutes before R3, you have ON advancing with hopeless1der (7) < OriginalName (11) Hope = 6 x Djo + 1 x Kush ON = Sand x 7 + Hiro x 2 + ET x 2 After that Kush bombed Hope with 5 more votes and ET countered last minute with 4 more votes on ON Final Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12 Hope = 6 x Djo + 6 x Kush ON = Sand x 7 + Hiro x 2 + ET x 6 | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Thrawn has made a mistake in his last two posts, it was supposed to be a correction for him but it is useful for everybody regarding the present discussion. My main point is that Kush wouldn't have bussed ON at all, regarding the votes | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 15 2012 12:04 Djodref wrote: Ok, I've just caught up with the thread now. First of all, I would like to address your concerns regarding my votes again Hopeless at round 3, when ON was facing him. I understand that they put me at a bad position right now. At the time when I've have dumped all my votes on him, I was pretty sure he was a mafia player. In my eyes, he was the scummiest but we didn't know yet that he was playing that way on purpose (regardless of his possible alignment). As I explained earlier, I was expecting him to dump all his 9 votes on me in response (in a total mafia OMGUS way) so I believed the chances were very high to have a Hopeless/Djodref final. I thought the mafia would take this final because I don't look so good and it's easier to push a mislynch on a newbie. I was all-in and I wanted Hopeless to be lynched even if it was by risking me to be in the final. So I went out quite satisfied with my move but when I finally emerged from my drunken sleep, I was very surprised to read Hopeless answer to my case. I would have expect anything but him giving me a town read. I've spent a lot of time thinking why a scum Hopeless would do that. Before going totally nuts, I've decided to stop WIFOMing myself and to reserve my judgement for later. I'm at work right now and I don't have time to elaborate so much but I would prefer prplhz to explode with the Hot Potatoe today. I was already suspicious of prplhz before all the Sandroba vote thing but it strongly confirms it. I'm not totally sold on Daoud yet. I've had a newb townie read on him until R3. His defense is very bad but he has been consistent with his read on Sandroba. Also I don't see his last scummate (prplhz?) let him post or vote like he did. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Did you read my latest defense of daoud ? What do you think about it ? Waiting for your case | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 17 2012 22:08 thrawn2112 wrote: I was talking about r4 not r3 My bad You are right, he was the decisive vote during R4. Pretty fun that he did this with his last remaining vote. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I feel I have been totally rape-ninjaed by mementoss... @mementoss Do you find my defense too much WIFOM ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I think you misunderstood me. My defense is based on the fact that it's more likely than daoud is a mislynch pushed by the mafia than a mafia player (this based on the possible strategies followed by the mafia while killing Sandro and ET). And I think that my point is valid, even if it's based on something we cannot be sure of. I thought it could incriminate you at the same time because you were pushing him. About changing my mind, mementoss post about you is quite solid, and I'm afraid right now that I was wrong. Anyway, I would appreciate more post and more content from you, regardless of your alignment. @Everyone I need to update my ranking but I want to see first how are going to contribute Kush and Hopeless today. Right now, I'm thinking at something like 1 Hiro 2 3 4 5 Daoud 6 Mementoss 7 Thrawn 8 Djodref Mementoss has really impressed me with his post about Hopeless. I cannot see anything but town motives for such a post. Nevertheless, I have thought at a Hopeless/Mementoss scumteam but I don't see it likely at all (maybe another stupid idea^^). I'll keep it in a corner of my mind if you survive for too long. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Because it was at first ON/Sandroba then Hopeless/Sandroba then ON/Sandroba By the way I don't understand why a scum Daoud would have not voted in that matchup, given his level of play. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm updating my list according to my latest feelings while reading the thread ##Vote 1-Hiro 2-Austin 3-Hopeless 4-Kush 5-Daoud 6-Mementoss 7-Thrawn 8-Djodref | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
austin is #2 on my list but right now it is due to an elimination process. I need more time to think it through because it is difficult for me to get a good read of him. I was leaning town on him but he is still tunneling mementoss, which posts have greatly improved, and it irks me a lot. But I'm not in favor of killing him right now. @everyone I really wanted to lynch Hopeless today but Mementoss defense post is really strong in my opinion. When I've made my post against him, I was convinced that Hopeless was playing us all with him playing scummy on purpose, admitting it and then laying low. I still don't like how much he wants to lynch daoud today but it is understandable, daoud looks bad enough. Much more understandable than a scum Hopeless playing scummy on purpose before facing his scum buddy ON in the semis. Quite stupid case from me... But if I want to keep being stupid, I can imagine a Mementoss/Hopeless scumteam. Very unlikely because of how much Mementoss is looking town in my eyes since D2 but I'm going to keep it for later. At this point of the game, I don't expect Thrawn or Mementoss surviving much more longer. So today I want to lynch Hiro/VE as he is my top scum read at the moment. Nobody has really commented yet my post against Hiro so far and I'm little disappointed. I want also to avoid a mislynch on Daoud. I'm also going to address the cases against me | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Here I present what lead us to prplhz mislynch and why I think we are also risking a mislynch on daoud + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote: Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler + I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Why pushing Sandroba was not so relevant + Show Spoiler + Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense. Why the association case with ON is not so relevant + Show Spoiler + ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know. Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this. The final reasons to lynch Daoud + Show Spoiler + If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Conclusion Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. Here is my second defense from Daoud. It is based on my take of the different strategies mafia could use with the killings of Sandro and ET. I've realized that Hopeless was looking even worse while writing this post so I mention him in it. It was before I could read Mementoss post and it is not relevant regarding my reasoning. + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote: First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts. I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie + Show Spoiler + So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie + Show Spoiler + I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now. You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway. After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post "lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays) And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg. I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. /snip Now I would like the people wanting to lynch daoud ask themselves the following questions, assuming that daoud is scum
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
The main reason why I'm making these long posts is because I have almost nobody to interact with me. Everyday I wake up there is like 3-4 new pages of posts and I have a lot to catch up. By the time I have processed everything, there is nobody in the thread anymore, at the exception of daoud, thrawn and kush sometimes. They are the people I interact the most with (plus I know thrawn and kush meta) and that's why I think my reads on them are correct. @Kush I was expecting a case against me and you take my defense against Mementoss. Sometimes I don't understand you... I would have preferred to defend myself first and I would have loved to see your case against me but w/e. It's difficult for me to imagine a scum Kush backing off his first read and defending me. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I have a time for analyzing and a time for discussing, that's all. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Not yet, I want people to seriously consider Hiro/VE for today. I want some real discussion about it and then I'll decide if austin is better or not. I'm preparing some stuff against Hiro right now. What do you mean with your last post ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Can I have your comments about my last post + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote: Why we should lynch Hiro I consider Hiro as my second scumread behind Hopeless. I'm going to present you why I'm supportive of a Hiro lynch tomorrow. First of all, I've been suspicious of Hiro since the beginning of the game. This suspicious was maybe ill-based at the beginning but it grew stronger when I've seen him tunneling me during the majority of D1. Anyway, here are my current reasons to lynch Hiro. In my eyes, he is
Lurky + Show Spoiler + Hiro has been a difficult read for me because he doesn't post so much. I've been reading his filter a few times (don't worry it's not too long) and I would have appreciated him posting more because I cannot see his motivations clearly. Hopeless and him have roughly same sized filters but Hopeless gives at least some excuses for his lurking while it looks like Hiro drops by whenever he feels like it (like the potato episode). He also totally disregarded my calls to him to participate more. He likes to ask some pertinent questions and to give his comments when people ask him for it but he is not giving anything by himself. Not pushing nor sharing his scumreads + Show Spoiler + So far, Hiro has only shared with us two of his scumreads: prplhz and me. I didn't see any attempt from him to push my lynch while I was a semi-finalist. He turned his scumread into a null read I guess for meta reasons. While letting Sandro advance at the same time. Regarding prplhz, I agree it was more difficult to really push for his lynch. But when you look at it, Hiro has suggested that prplhz was scum D1 and then accepted it for granted after that people have made their strong stances against him on D2. This move looks really scummy to me. Moreover, we don't know whoever else could be on his scumlist. Not giving the potato immediately to prplhz + Show Spoiler + Some of you might consider this is not a big issue but I think that we lost potential information during D2 because the potato was not circulating. As his behavior didn't reflect the reason why he told us he was not giving the potato, I think he might have other motives for it. And he still didn't answer me why ! Conclusion I have been suspicious of Hiro for quite a long time and I was not sure if I was focusing on the right person. The comments he made were giving good insight on the game but I didn't notice until lately that he is in fact a little reluctant to participate. The most incriminating part is that he didn't try to push prplhz but waited for the case to be made. And he likes potato ! Would you like to lynch him today ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
If possible, I would like everybody reading Hiro's filter before reading this post. Don't worry, it's only 3 pages, and there is not so much content. Also I find it suspicious to have a replacement happening this late in the game, but I don't know if it's common or not. My main points against him
During D1, he has mostly talked about kush and me as his scumreads. People had to ask him questions about everything else to get him commenting about it. He was retaining info imo. The most flagrant case is that he didn't even comment nor vote my match-up against Sandroba when I had been his top scumread until the beginning of R3. He also avoided to comment a lot of match-ups. He was also very laconic regarding his change of mind about me. Moreover, he promised us a deadline post with scumreads which never come. You could always spare the time to write a one-liner... [*]Hiro has been insinuating that prplhz could be scum, without clearly pushing him. On October 13 2012 05:30 HiroPro wrote: you know what's hilarious about this? prplhz is a guy who follows vets around whenever he play and never tries to lynch them. And I'm a person who normally doesn't really care. When prplhz is acting like this, something is up. Especially when has that pissed "i'm mad and i want you to know it" tone going on. On October 13 2012 05:39 HiroPro wrote: He's trying to lynch sandroba. sandroba is a vet. do I need to spell this out for you? And right now he's mad with me. I can tell it. [*]Hiro has been holding the fucking potato. I don't see any town motivation for this and his explanations were poor. On October 15 2012 06:02 HiroPro wrote: Do you think that the potato will blow up before 24 hours? No, the chance is almost none. After that though, it's a toss up. And I intend to make sure that you are the one with the potato at 24 hours. So yes I do control the lynch. Plus he didn't want to answer at all when I called him on this point. That's why I want to lynch Hiro/VE today. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:40 thrawn2112 wrote: Do you really think this is a question that any mod would answer? I'd never ask something like this. I was asking you if you have seen late replacement in other games. Also, you did not want to modkill Lesrah during our last game when you should have done it because he was scum | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:54 thrawn2112 wrote: Reeeaaalllly scummy reasons to want to lynch somebody.... especially that 2nd bolded statement. How would you expect me to react ? I was almost convinced to have nailed a scum and I was sure to send him to the finals with my massive vote. And then the guy goes like, "yeah, I was playing scummy on purpose, I wanted some guy to write a case on me, this was my plan" and people believe him and he doesn't advance and I don't get to know if I was right or wrong. I thought that a scum Hopeless couldn't afford to OMGUS me with all his votes (which I was hoping for), so instead he gave me some town cred for making the case, when the purpose of his plan would have been to catch some scum. But a plan like this wouldn't make any sense for scum. So that makes him town. But I doesn't make any sense for a town player to play scum on purpose. So which one is it ? I have been torturing myself with all these questions last saturday and I wanted an answer. I didn't share this in the thread because it is just WIFOM bullshit. I've decided to give a second chance to Hopeless at the end but he didn't improve his play during D2 and now he wants to lynch daoud. So, even with Mementoss post, there is a part of me which still wants to lynch this guy. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
He kept the potato because he wanted to retain some information, as he did during the majority of D1. Just look at his thread again and please check what is the proportion of posts are where he just answers to some people question in comparison of his total number of posts. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 14:25 Hopeless1der wrote: I've finally gotten through Austin's case on MMT and I also reread through MMT's djodref case and his defense of me. Ultimately, I'm currently more town on MMT but unwilling to support a lynch on austin today. I read da0ud as scummy and I also don't think he's a prime candidate for any upcoming NK's, whereas Austin, MMT, VE are all significantly more likely to get taken out by scum (assuming they aren't scum themselves, duh). Lynching da0ud is a better longterm plan for town imo as it cleans out sandroba/ET's read on him and I think it will narrow our reads a lot more than say lynching MMT or Austin. Yes, its scummy to do things for information alone, but then again, why was ON lynched instead of sandroba? People (not me) felt they would be able to tell sandroba from sandroba. Can anyone in this game say the same of da0ud? I'm revising my votes so that MMT and Austin get my 6/7 spots. I don't want either lynched today because MMT has started to put down some serious effort into the thread (scum motivated or not) and Austin, while tunneling, is still known to post walls of text from time to time. There is also the fact that VE has just replaced in and has yet to properly sit down and take a good look at this game I think. 1-da0ud 2-djodref 3-kushm4sta 4-VisceraEyes 5-Thrawn2112 6-Mementoss 7-Austinmcc 8-Hopeless1der djodref is up there because in isolation, he's a scummier looking player, but I feel I'm really forcing any connections I make between him and other players. Since I want to hold off on MMT/Austin, after da0ud I'm ranking in the order of who I would care least if they were to go missing. I don't think kush or VE are going to be anywhere close to getting lynched, and I may need to move djodref around to have a better shot at da0ud. Really tired, so I'll lay out the short version of why I want da0ud before I go to sleep:
I disagree with you about daoud but I understand your motivations. I'm pretty sure he is going to be a mislynch and that we are probably going to end up in mylo because of this. Regarding all the stuff about moving people around in the list and so on, I think that's why we should better run our own majority lynch system for this round. I'm quite disappointed that nobody wanted to do it. By the way ##Vote VE | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I've never played with any of you except Kush but I've watched your newbie games, I really liked them (so I wanted to join) and I liked your town meta. I think I am better at townreads than scumreads right now (debears scum -> town, shady scum -> town, sandro scum -> town, prplhz scum -> town) and I've got the same kind of feeling when I read your filter than when I've read your previous games. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 18 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: Djodref Part I: Round III Hopeless vs ON Says he doesn't like lurking and lurking is scummy. But later he defends ON for lurking saying lurking usually doesn't flip scum. Ridiculous double standards whenever its needed. In my opinion, lurking is scummy but hardcore lurking tells nothing. This is how I would explain my double standards. Gives ON an excuse for being scummy, bringing doubt on putting ON through. Too scummy to be scum. Mafia don't usually flip when they are this obvious. Saying he wants to vote hopeless over ON but wont use more than 3 votes. More lurky than scummy, another excuse. First post with a lot of effort into it is trying to advance Hopeless over ON: + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote: As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 However, he wasn't convinced enough before to use more than 3 votes, WHATS THIS, oh the situation changed, more people are voting ON than he thought. Now he decides he needs to use ALL his votes, that how convinced he is. I've explained many time why I have been using all my votes at that time. I was hoping to go to the finals against hopeless. Also you are deforming what happened during R3. Check the voting thread and you can easily see that I was the first one to vote this match-up. I think you had some confirmation bias while reading my filter + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote: First of all, I'm disappointed that Hopeless did not advance to the final. Right now, I would like him to be lynched, at least for the confusion he is putting me through. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen today... I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 ! Concerning today's lynch, I don't have any more votes so I have basically no power to change anything. Yet I would like to use my words to convince you to lynch Sandroba over OriginalName. OriginalName I think everybody could agree that he is a total lurker. So let's look at the few things we have. His useless panic vote against is scummy as hell and his explanation for it was weak in my view because he calls me for a post I have made drunk and me backing off from this post later on. I was drunk and I've made a mistake at that time so it was natural for me to back off. But I understand it could be suspicious in another player eye so it could be a valid reason to vote me. Regarding his vote, I think a scum player would have avoided voting like this. And there it is, that's all we have from him ! I'm saying that it not enough to lynch him today. Sandroba Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter. Also, his unexplained hunch for me is a scumtell. I've been looking bad enough (and from my first post apparently) to advance until the semis but he is one of two players to have a town read on me (hello prplhz!). Moreover, he didn't bother to address this point. Regarding his last post, I was also drunken yesterday, I'm having a big hangover now, most likely I'm going to be drunk tonight again but I'm still trying to invest myself in this game. I imagine he is that disinterested right now because he is scum. If I had votes right now, I would use them to vote Sandroba. Hence, I recommend you to lynch him. "His panic vote is scummy as hell but I doubt scum would do this therefore not scum!" - Seems legit. Convincing people he is a total lurker and not mafia. Decides this is the perfect time to mention his scum read on vet sandroba. Wait what, he doesn't want to lynch ON the non vet lurker, but says Sandroba is also a lurker but its scummy for him. WTF. Seriously? Unexplained hunch is a scumtell. Doesnt explain how. His meta is different. Also doesn't explain how. I would still lynch sandroba over ON if you were giving me only the first page of his filter, which was the only info I had at the time I've made that post. He was giving reads without explanations (his hunches) and that's a scumtell for me. I wrote this post while I was having no vote to cast, in thought my reasoning was good so I have shared it with everybody. No effort put into this like the effort on hopeless to try and save ON. Hypocrite, obviously biased against sandroba. Makes his whole case up out of nothing to make it look better. He recommends we lynch sandroba. + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote: I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? More doubt on the lynch. Part II: Wrong end of the lynch part 2: Another weak case that looks like a case just to be looking town and presenting the case. Also burns his hide just to look pro town. Part III: Im a Noobie! Guys im friendly town :+ Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote: On a side note, Daoud really looks like a newb townie. I advice him to be careful with early association cases because I also thought I got the complete scumteam on D1 of my last newbie game In a result I just have been tunneling our town MVP until my death... On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: I don't want to predict anything for this MU Also the predictions were fucking weird. Acting like he could read the future and shit, maybe its cause he knew what 2 other guys plans were. On October 12 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote: I'll check the thread when I wake up and I hope to be here for the deadline On October 12 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote: I just have caught up with the thread on my phone. First I would like to say that the predictions were a (failed) attempt to make my comments look like a starcraft MU preview. Thank you Kush for understanding me and believing in me On October 12 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless It's just that I didn't realize until late that the votes of ON on me were counting for this round. It felt like I was starting with an handicap but whatever... I don't want to get mislynched so I'll put more efforts in this game so everybody understand I can be a valuable asset for town Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon so you have to give me some more time. On October 12 2012 21:45 Djodref wrote: By the way, I'm going out for the night and I don't know if I would be able to wake up before 11am tomorrow, if you know what I mean On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote: @prplhz I would really appreciate you sharing with us all the info you have gathered with your questions here and there. I wouldn't mind if it was a long and articulate post. I'm starting to wondering if you are active in your scumhunting or just pretending to be active On October 14 2012 09:47 Djodref wrote: Ok, I see. I had a little misunderstanding here. By the way if you don't really think either is super scummy, it's too bad you didn't use your votes to make scummier people advance in the previous stages then (it's just a joke, I've seen your explanations for it)Personally, I would still vote for Sandroba if I could but I guess it depends on your level of conviction for him to be scum. On October 14 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote: LOL So is this standard to have a total lurker in every scumteam ? It's the case in all my games so far Holy fuck, Im done with all the smileys, you get the point he wants to look like harmless friendly old townie djo. His night 2 posts looked really townie. But they are easy to construct as mafia. Da0d is currently leading, and although Djo wanted nothing to do with his lynch, he isn't trying to convince anyone. He did not try to push Hiro even after he thought my hopeless post made sense. Also, he posted early out of excitment or WIFOM warning, because he knew he wasn't going to die. I think your part III is weak, this is just my posting style Djo, not as fucking townie as everyone thinks. Moving him up my list. In conclusion recap: -Hard defense on Ro3 ON vs Hopeless, uses all votes I would do it again. I still think this is my best move during this game -Hard defense on ON , trying to convince people to vote sandroba I prefer to lynch a scummy lurker (aka Sandro) than an hardcore lurker (aka ON). I don't care who is vet. Sandroba was looking bad at that time, bad enough for having a lot of votes against him. Moreover, I think a mafia player with no votes would have just shut up. I was trying to push people to lynch the guy who I thought was scum. -puttin doubt on ON lynch Didn't want to lynch an hardcore lurker. Moreover, I thought a mafia player would have not attracted attention over himself by voting at deadline. -Double standards on different lurkers, ON vs Hiro/hopeless/me early I've made my post when I voted you drunken and I wanted to vote ET instead of you at that time for not using the voting thread iirc. -weak case on prplhz, doesn't attempt to look outside prplhz and da0d even though he thinks da0d is town and has a good chance at being lynched My case against prplhz was good enough for me. I've also always said that Hiro was on my scumlist. Confirmation bias here -Trying really hard to look town and harmless, calling himself a noob and bad and smiley faces. Check my previous game and you are going to see the same meta -Isn't pushing his town read day 3 or his scum reads I'm trying to push but there is no one in the thread when I post and I have the feeling that everybody disregard my cases. -pretty much has been floating by without suspicion because of ON's panic votes. WIFOM, ON coulda been bused and coulda been used to make djo look townie. For the final touch, I'm going to quote my attacker himself On October 15 2012 20:48 Mementoss wrote: Also, I'm gunna try to shy away from the connection cases with ON. Simply for the fact that ON was the perfect bus target. He was useless, and inactive so was guaranteed to get lynched eventually and gave easy town credibility on any one voting him. It also gives scum a chance who voted him, to shift the attention off themselves by using oh he voted for ON not to move on in this matchup, SCUM SCUM. So yeah, I'll take it into account when reading filters, but I think ON was probably bussed. @Mementoss If you think I didn't address some things properly, please let me know. I liked your case against me even if some parts are not exactly correct. I would appreciate you to give me some comments on my cases for Hiro/VE. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
austinmcc -> Mementoss da0ud -> ? djodref -> VE kushm4sta -> Thrawn Hopeless1der -> daoud Thrawn2112 -> ? Mementoss -> Djodref VisceraEyes -> austin Maybe we should try to consolidate ? I think that VE is a good compromise On a serious note, I could imagine austin, daoud or me lynched today. Would you agree on that one ? I don't want daoud to be lynched and I'm town. I need more time to look at austin. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
D1/N1
D2/N2
I'm just realizing that VE wants to lynch austin. I don't know what to think about this... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Please also notice how he handles prplhz. That's why I want a VE lynch today. Also I'll put daoud as low as possible to avoid him a lynch. Updating my list right now... ##Vote 1-VisceraEyes 2-austinmcc 3-Hopeless1der 4-kushm4sta 5-Mementoss 6-Thrawn2112 7-da0ud 8-Djodref | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
and also because it's more likely for all the others to be town. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 20:29 Mementoss wrote: i cant believe djo is making a case on VE for lurking when the player got replaced. I mean, use your head, he got replaced because he had no time to post or lost interest. @Mementoss I don't understand how the following is a case about kurking... On October 18 2012 16:59 Djodref wrote: Did you check his filter ? D1/N1
D2/N2
I'm just realizing that VE wants to lynch austin. I don't know what to think about this... Could have have some honest comments on these points ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm quite sure that ON has been bussed. Please have a look at Hiro's filter and imagine him with the intent of bussing ON. You guys are putting too much importance on the matchup Hopeless/ON. It could have just been a town/town fight for all we know. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:55 Mementoss wrote: also wifom thought, I know a slight majority of people wanted prplhz over da0d. But why wasn't scum squirming when there was 2 candidates and scum was one of them? Or they coulda just told da0d to make a case so everyone was like lol fuck it lynch prphlz, da0d is actually trying The main problem is that we didn't have the control of the lynch so nobody really cared. At the moment when prplhz kept the potato to try to blow ET with it was over. As I said, scum just had to go with everybody and say: "lol, pass the potato, daoud and prplhz so scummy!" and go on holidays | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
lol What I wanted to say is that everybody is focusing too much on this MU. But when you look at it, on one side, you had a guy who admitted playing scummy on purpose. Some people might believe in it, some other not. On the other side, you had an hardcore lurker with panic votes, who turned out to be a mafia. Mafia could try to bus, protect or even do nothing with the lurker. We don't know. I don't think you can get reliable info from these votes. Explanations are what matters. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 19 2012 00:13 thrawn2112 wrote: I strongly disagree with this and therefore I am suspicious of your motives behind making this post.... Ok, it's just that I'm tired of explaining myself over and over again for these votes. I'm sorry, I really don't want to get mislynched for them. So let me ask all of you what do you think about my explanations for these votes ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
What happened during the night ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
y u no give the role ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 19 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: so on a scale of one to town hes townier than you, yet you know your own alignment? I've used my list as a tool to protect the guy I'm almost sure to be a mislynch. I don't care if it doesn't reflect exactly my thoughts and knowledge about my alignments. That's why I wanted us to use a majority lynch in parallel so we don't waste our time attacking each other on how we are using our list. I know you have said that you want to lynch anyone doing that kind of stuff but I didn't sign anything with you regarding that. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
When you look at the final vote count, you realize that you, Mementoss and Thrawn are at the end of the list. It means that you are generally acknowledged as town players. On October 19 2012 07:52 kitaman27 wrote: Day Three Update 45 austin 41 djodref 40 kushm4sta 36 hiro 33 hopeless1der 33 thrawn 32 mementoss 28 da0ud If we don't have a medic, which I doubt, the mafia is going to kill one of us tonight. Tomorrow we are likely to be in a situation with only 6 players left (4 town and 2 mafia). This situation is a mylo situation, for mislynch or lose. It means that if we mislynch again tomorrow, we are going to be 3 town and 2 mafia before the night and most likely 2 vs 2 the last day. In this case, mafia wins. Am I right, because it still could be possible for town to win if we have more potato days and be lucky this time? That's why we need absolutely to lynch one mafia member tomorrow. On the opposite, mafia has to kill the players with the most town cred (provided they are not mafia themselves) to increase their chances to lead to a mislynch. I believe you are still a potential mislynch, so I don't think that mafia is going to kill you tonight. It's the same for me by the way Right now, I believe that Mementoss, Thrawn and maybe Hopeless are the most townie like among us. I would be very surprised if one of them is not killed tonight, I'm even expecting mafia to kill Mementoss. There might be a mafia player between the 3 of them but definitively not the two of them imo (or else I have to say gg wp guys). I think we should focus our efforts to find and lynch the scum between the other people. And this time we need to consolidate because mafia can try to change the result of the vote at the deadline. I strongly believe that Hiro was scum, so I want to push a VE lynch for tomorrow. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why a medic should target you ? Look at the final vote list, you are not considered as town among us. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I must admit that, in this case, the only thing that would make sense is a djodref/daoud scumteam but you'll see that I'm town if you flip me and I still believe that daoud is town. Moreover, it would be a miracle for such a newb/newb/lurker scumteam to go that far... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Could you please check Hiro's filter and tell me what you think about these points ? D1/N1
D2/N2
The potato thing is important ! Please do not discard it ! | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:38 thrawn2112 wrote: no I don't want to lynch him because I don't like lynching replacements, especially when the replace in with like 24 hours left till lynch. As for your case, I don't think the "not giving potato to prplhz" is a good argument. Reading through his filter at that time it really looked like he had good reasons for not doing so. (He planned on giving prplhz the potato right before the 24 hour mark) Other than that the main stuff everyone (including me) has been citing as suspicious behavior was his lurking... well when he gets a replacement that makes me think he has legitimate real life reasons for his low activity. That does not point to townie or scummy... it just means he didn't have enough time to properly play the game so I can't make any judgement calls based on the fact that he was a lurker. Other than that, the posts he did make were well reasoned etc so I don't see anything damming enough to lynch his replacement. At this point my read on hiro is basically null and it's all going to be based off my read on VE from now on. Ok, here is some comments from you about my "potato" point. By the way, this 24hours thing is bullshit, nobody could have known that for sure. Now here is one other post from you from before. On October 15 2012 14:11 thrawn2112 wrote: da0 if you are town then you keeping the potato does not help town. why i think both da0 and prp are scum = they both want/agree to hold onto the potato. what town player would want the potato? no town player wants the potato unless they think they know when the potato goes kapow and nobody knows when that'll happen. why would scum want the potato? to gain town cred by pretending not to care if they have the potato. da0 you should be talking about who is scum... and you;re going to have to try harder than making crazy night action theories. That theory did make a little bit of sense but it's all circumstantial and it assumes that the mods were hovering over the thread at the exact moment the night actions were sent in Why did you change your mind ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why are you getting so angry because I want people to focus their attention on Hiro's filter ? I don't think that my points are directly directed to his inactivity. I think they stand by themselves and gather enough evidence for me to think you are mafia ! | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 17:17 Djodref wrote: Regarding austin being in 2nd position, I think he deserves it for two reasons
and also because it's more likely for all the others to be town. I was also here at the deadline and I didn't believe his claim so I didn't want to change my vote list except for preventing a mislynch on Daoud. You could have as well tried to bus austin | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
How can I push anybody if people don't really read my cases ? Anyway I'm glad you have changed your mind. For the moment, VE is quite aggressive against me but I would like him to answer my questions. @VE Where were you yesterday ? Why should an hypothetical medic target you ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
You had a town read on Hiro, you need to come with better explanations than this. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
So who do you think are the remaining mafia ? And who do you think is going to be NKed ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 11:30 Djodref wrote: Regarding Daoud defense, here is a compilation of my previous posts on the subject. I didn't get so much feedback so I'm putting them here again. You can skip it if you have already read it but I would appreciate you taking a second look at it. Here I present what lead us to prplhz mislynch and why I think we are also risking a mislynch on daoud + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote: Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler + I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Why pushing Sandroba was not so relevant + Show Spoiler + Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense. Why the association case with ON is not so relevant + Show Spoiler + ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know. Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this. The final reasons to lynch Daoud + Show Spoiler + If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Conclusion Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. Here is my second defense from Daoud. It is based on my take of the different strategies mafia could use with the killings of Sandro and ET. I've realized that Hopeless was looking even worse while writing this post so I mention him in it. It was before I could read Mementoss post and it is not relevant regarding my reasoning. + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote: First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts. I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie + Show Spoiler + So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie + Show Spoiler + I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now. You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway. After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post "lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays) And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg. I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. /snip Now I would like the people wanting to lynch daoud ask themselves the following questions, assuming that daoud is scum
Regarding daoud, do you have some answers for the questions I wanted you to ask yourself if you though he was scum ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
By the way, did you re-read Hiro's filter with my new points on it ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
If you had been given the potato at the beginning of D2, what would you have done with it ? I mean, who would you have given the potato and when ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 19 2012 21:23 kushm4sta wrote: @ djo I would have immediately given it to prpl... you are obsessed with this potato. That's the thing ! I'm just trying to make you see the problem by yourself. Hiro said he was keeping the potato because he was controlling the lynch this way. He said something about keeping it for 24 hours and then giving it to prplhz. He didn't even respect what he was saying because that was bullshit. I'm saying he was keeping the potato for the sake of keeping the potato. Because that what scum would do (or desperate townies). Prplhz said it himself, he was going to try to keep the potato long enough to convince us that he was town. I bet Hiro was doing exactly the same, holding onto the potato to show us that he was not afraid of dying. But at the end, his scum survival instincts took over. Why didn't he give it immediately to prplhz ? I would have done this, you would have done this, everybody asked him to do this. But he kept the potato, retaining info, trying to get some town cred. I could only see scum motivation for such a move. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 19 2012 21:51 Mementoss wrote: i dont understand why everyone in the thread feels the need to defend da0 at all costs First thing for me is a gut feeling. When I try to read his filter objectively, I read him as complete newbie. I cannot imagine anyone forge anything like this. The best example being him not knowing about the blue roles. Maybe the more important thing is that he is obviously playing alone. I'm pretty sure that nobody is here to explain him how to defend himself, how to look consistent, how to not ninja-vote and so on. Moreover he doesn't follow any strategy. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
If he got us fooled (I mean thrawn, kush and me), I'd say he deserves a victory... I've played the newbie card a lot in my last game because I was a cop. I think in this case you use it in an apologetic way, whether you want it or not. You don't go crazy when you got called for dick riding Thrawn and end up with someting like this+ Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 15:40 da0ud wrote: You are right I think I am not really playing the same game. More like the paranoid game indeed. lol. Don't worry there is no language barrier, it is pretty much me being dumb and that's it. I have been working in HK for 5 yrs now mostly with native english speaking people (including Aussies and Kiwis). So I don't want you to put my stupidity in me not understanding what is happening. I am probably too lazy and busy in the morning too really read very carefully and take notes. I usually catch back on the thread in the morning when there is action at work. I try to do it as fast as possible otherwise there is no one to actually share views with me. I should read slower and more carefuly. But whatever... Thank to you, Kush, and thrawn himself to make me read entirely his filter. And there is not much in there. Thrawn you go from my first town read to second scum read. Here are the three main reasons : 1) Your votes in Day1 went for prplhz (town), Sand twice (town), Djo (very town-looking, again I will re-read his filter, but he makes very good cases). He initially votes Sand in the finals and when he sees suspicions onto ON he unvotes then changes to ON. 2) this post : Too naive, almost similar to mine where i imply the last one to act was scum. Here basically he implies I have nothing to do, or not much talking to do with my scum team, so hurry up => VERY VERY SCUMMY 3) this other post : When looking at action, no one votes on him so didn't ask his mates to bus the sh!t out of him. Did not bus the sh!t out of them either cause mostly accused or voted townies. Hence is actions are the opposite of what he PRETENDS he would do if he were scum. This is too big to be true. There is more to say but i will focus on others as well. Thanks Kush for waking me up, you going down my ladder I started already in Day2. Also I've just noticed how he reacted to the potato situation. I was planning to do more or less the same stuff that prplhz did (well he didn't want to blew up ET but prplhz didn't do it at the end). I think they both wanted to keep the potato because they were both desperate and unable to prove their innocence. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Hopeless, I've almost managed to totally changed my mind about you. I'm waiting for the NK to be sure. I'll explain at the beginning of D3. So I'm begging you to change your mind about daoud. Right now, I think at 95% that he is town. He is the perfect mislynch. Please remember that obvious scum is usually town Also I would like to have you input regarding my latest points on Hiro's filter. At least, I want you to answer the following questions
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
VE is not here to address my questions nor any questions so I'm just going to say that his last post way unnecessarily aggressive. I'm sorry to bring up a very basic point but you were not promoting a good atmosphere for the discussion. I'm tunneling like this because I was convinced that Hiro was scum before you replaced him. The latest points I want people to comment on concern only Hiro's filter and not yours and are not related to lurking anymore (unlike my precedents points against Hiro). | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I don't see any way to achieve a no-lynch. We have to get this right or it's over: 2vs2 is a mafia win. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
 What about a mafia role ? If we have no claim we have to assume mafia imo. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 20 2012 08:51 kushm4sta wrote: if was a scum action why would they pardon ve and not thrawn.... If there is a role like this, and if it's a mafia role then VE is obviously scum. If we have no claim, we can assume a mafia role or the lynch mechanics... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Mementoss flipping town leads me to finally accept the fact the Hopeless is the closest to what we have from a confirmed town. I had some doubts regarding a Mementoss/Hopeless scumteam but these days are obviously over. I still don't like Hopeless filter D1 and D2 nor the fact that he wanted to lynch daoud so much but he gave good reasons for it. See in the following spoiler + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2012 14:25 Hopeless1der wrote: I've finally gotten through Austin's case on MMT and I also reread through MMT's djodref case and his defense of me. Ultimately, I'm currently more town on MMT but unwilling to support a lynch on austin today. I read da0ud as scummy and I also don't think he's a prime candidate for any upcoming NK's, whereas Austin, MMT, VE are all significantly more likely to get taken out by scum (assuming they aren't scum themselves, duh). Lynching da0ud is a better longterm plan for town imo as it cleans out sandroba/ET's read on him and I think it will narrow our reads a lot more than say lynching MMT or Austin. Yes, its scummy to do things for information alone, but then again, why was ON lynched instead of sandroba? People (not me) felt they would be able to tell sandroba from sandroba. Can anyone in this game say the same of da0ud? I'm revising my votes so that MMT and Austin get my 6/7 spots. I don't want either lynched today because MMT has started to put down some serious effort into the thread (scum motivated or not) and Austin, while tunneling, is still known to post walls of text from time to time. There is also the fact that VE has just replaced in and has yet to properly sit down and take a good look at this game I think. 1-da0ud 2-djodref 3-kushm4sta 4-VisceraEyes 5-Thrawn2112 6-Mementoss 7-Austinmcc 8-Hopeless1der djodref is up there because in isolation, he's a scummier looking player, but I feel I'm really forcing any connections I make between him and other players. Since I want to hold off on MMT/Austin, after da0ud I'm ranking in the order of who I would care least if they were to go missing. I don't think kush or VE are going to be anywhere close to getting lynched, and I may need to move djodref around to have a better shot at da0ud. Really tired, so I'll lay out the short version of why I want da0ud before I go to sleep:
Why do I think that Hopeless is a town ? First of all is this great post from Mementoss -> + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 20:53 Mementoss wrote: Why Hopeless1der is Most likely Town The Facts: 1. Original Name 2. EchelonTee 3. Sandroba 4. EchelonTee last minute vote bombs Original Name to put him into the finals The Theory: Alright, I want you to pretend you are on the scum team and think from a team planning and chatting in the obs QT while you read this. Looking at day 1 and the facts we have, I think its pretty obvious hopeless1der is town. I thought he was scummy, for his posts, but after thinking of this and unable to answer the question with any confidence I have come to the conclusion he is town. In the semi finals, Hopeless1der was set to move on to the finals over Original Name until EchelonTee last minute voted him through. Scum could not have foreseen this happening. Therefore scum wanted Hopeless1der in the finals to be against Sandroba . I think this was an attempt to get a guarenteed mislynch. It is the only situation in my mind that makes any sense whatsoever. If both Hopeless1der and Original Name were scum, the scum team would have had to make a decision, who was less of an asset to their team. Who could they afford to bus? The obvious answer to this question is Original Name. Why? Because Original Name was guarenteed to be a lynch contender for the rest of the game, and would eventually be killed. However, this was not the case, as scum clearly wanted hopeless1der through, until EchelonTee ruined their plan. Do you think if hopeless1der was scum they would send him against Sandroba hoping he could win out? Very doubtful. It woulda been the same sort of case, "well they both look scummy, not sold on either, so lets be safe and not lynch the vet Sandroba ". If you cannot make sense of this round with hopeless1der being scum, or think of logical (likely) scum motivation for sending Hopeless1der over Original Name. If it doesn't make sense, than it probably isn't true. Therefore: Hopeless1der > Hopeless Now, I need to re-read the Hopeless1der vs Original Name matchup because I think scum was trying to send hopeless1der through to save Original Name. Secondly it makes no sense for a scum player to play scummy on purpose and admit it, especially when you are going to face your lurky scum buddy in semis. I think that ON advancing to the semis would have forced the scumteam to bus him, not protecting him, but we don't know. Anyway you don't protect your scum buddy by trying to look worse than him. And at last I've found his post quality improving during D3. I would like everybody to agree on this one. Right now, I think he is our confirmed town and I hope that you think so too. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote: Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum. The problem is that we cannot afford to mislynch anymore... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm hoping daoud to come back and to start posting again. On October 19 2012 23:36 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless Hopeless, I've almost managed to totally changed my mind about you. I'm waiting for the NK to be sure. I'll explain at the beginning of D3. So I'm begging you to change your mind about daoud. Right now, I think at 95% that he is town. He is the perfect mislynch. Please remember that obvious scum is usually town Also I would like to have you input regarding my latest points on Hiro's filter. At least, I want you to answer the following questions
I'm doing all this because we have to lynch correctly and consolidate. First of all, I want us to all agree to eliminate some targets to concentrate all our efforts to the remaining possibilities. I'm quite pissed off that we cannot lynch VE today and the lynch mechanics are clearly mafia favored. So we have to get it right ! I'm ok to discuss daoud before deciding if we really eliminate him from the possible targets or not. I hope he can come here to speak for himself. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
The main problem is that the votes are hidden. We must vote in the thread accordingly when we send our vote PM. It's pretty obvious that the mafia is going to lie about where they place their votes, this way they can easily achieve a mislynch. Because of the mylo situation and because of the lynch mechanics, it is absolutely primordial for us to consolidate. That's why I want people to discuss and decide the following points first
If you think I'm wrong about some points, please let me know. The most important thing to me is for all of us to be on the same page. We have to come out with a common plan. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Right now, I'm leaning towards you or thrawn mafia with VE. I need you to participate in an efficient way. I don't want to get to much into scumhunting discussion right now because I want us to make up a plan first. Obviously, the whole "do whatever you want with your lists" D3 lead to a debacle. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I didn't realize than you could use your friend vote on yourself. I have to think about how we can use it. I'm confident that we could get everyone agreeing that you are most likely (like 95%) town. I have to read the whole thread again... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
But I'm concerned about the extra friends vote it gives to VE... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why we should all us our friend vote on ourselves I've given some further thoughts about it, especially how mafia could try to abuse the lynch mechanics and deadline voting, and I think we must use our friend vote on ourselves. First of all, I think that we are at mylo, with 4 town and 2 mafia, unfortunately no medic and no way to have a no-lynch. I'm pretty that mafia is just one mislynch away from victory and they don't care if they have to reveal to do so. VE being pardoned is a good example of this in my opinion. For me, it basically confirms that he is mafia. Given the lynch mechanics, we must stack all our votes to one of the remaining mafia players. Now I'm going to develop and explain why we must also use our friend vote on ourselves. Let's assume that we found one mafia player player and everybody agrees to lynch him. It's going to take some time for sure. But we can do it ^^ Let's also say that someone (I'm going to call him Hopeless later on for more clarity ) says publicly that he is not going to use his friend vote on himself because he doesn't need to so he is going to use it for other purposes.If the 2 mafia players stack their votes early on Hopeless, he is going to be the first one to reach 2 votes against him. Then even if we found the remaining mafia player and vote him with the results of 4 votes against him, they can try to last minute friend him, reducing the amount of votes to 2. If I'm right, in this case, Hopeless gets lynched and we lose. I think it is going to be difficult to react to last minute friend voting (by switching all town votes against the other mafia), and impossible if the other mafia is VE. If everybody use the friend vote on himself, the maximum vote count that mafia can reach with hidden stacking is going to be 1 and we have to counter it with all town votes against a mafia player. This way, even if they try to last minute friend the lynch target, town is still going to achieve a total of 2 votes against him. Conclusion We must absolutely consolidate our vote and use friend vote on ourselves. If we do so, giving a "free" friend vote to VE is not going to matter. Please tell me if you think that I'm wrong. ##Vote Friend Djodref | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
What do you think about Hopeless being almost a confirmed townie ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 20 2012 12:05 da0ud wrote: One thing on the lynch mecanics : could VE get lynched if no one uses their foe votes? We would all be in negative. Do you think mafia is not going to use their votes ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 20 2012 12:05 da0ud wrote: One thing on the lynch mecanics : could VE get lynched if no one uses their foe votes? We would all be in negative. Seriously guys, this is a perfect example why I think daoud is town. I admit that playing the newbie could be a strategy to survive but there is a limit to what you could be able to forge... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Sorry guys, I got to go | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 20 2012 12:05 da0ud wrote: One thing on the lynch mecanics : could VE get lynched if no one uses their foe votes? We would all be in negative. The mafia is going to put some townie at 1 or at 2 in any case... Seriously if you are pretending to not understand you deserve your victory... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
If VE was not pardoned today but Thrawn, would you lynch him and why ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Don't you realize that you might have 2 votes from the mafia already stacked on you ? Or is it just that you don't care ? PS: same for you daoud | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
My scumteam right now would be a Hiro-VE/Kush. I found the interactions between them weird. Hiro's side He starts the game by focusing onto kush and me+ Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 08:54 HiroPro wrote: Hey Djodref, I'd like a proper response to the question I asked you earlier. Not a repetition of what you've already said, I want a clear stance. I'm voting for kush over prp. kush doesn't seem to have much interest in finding scum - his votes are for people who he thinks are "bad", which is pretty much just abdicating any responsibility for scumhunting. The one vote that he does try to give some reasoning for is nonsense and in itself a contradiction since kush himself is not attempting to find scum - he's content to make one weak read and pick 2 other people for reasons unrelated to finding scum. kushm4sta x1 On October 11 2012 10:58 HiroPro wrote: Adding another vote onto kush, I want him advancing. Then he forgets about him as soon as sandroba advances against him (with no effort from Hiro to push him further+ Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 11:00 JingleHell wrote: Ro8 Final Score + Show Spoiler [Vote Usage] + Votes Used/Remaining Memen: sand 2x, ET 1x, 5 remain Hiro: djo 1x, 7 Remain Austin: N/A 9 Remain Thrawn: sand 1x, 6 Remain Sand: ON 1x, 7 Remain prp: hopeless 1x, 8 Remain ON: djo 2x, 8 Remain da0: djo 1x, 9 Remain djo: hopeless 1x, 6 Remain hopeless: ON 1x, 9 Remain kush: Unvote, 7 Remain ET: kush 2x, 6 Remain Kush side Kush stances regarding Hiro and VE are not consistent at all. It looked like he avoided to talk about him during the game and gives contradictory statements. He first starts to be suspicious of Hiro but makes no efforts for sending him further. On October 12 2012 09:55 kushm4sta wrote: I'm going to remove my votes from hiro and hopeless (my vote doesn't change those mu anyway) and dump them on ET. Then the following spoiler is a collection of Kush stances regarding Hiro. + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 04:39 kushm4sta wrote: Boo don't trust thrawn. A lot of your case relies on null tells like lurking. But yeah I don't think the case against Daoud is super strong. 1der and Hiro are scummy seeming nulls imo. Does anyone have meta insight into Hiro's play? Since he gave up on tunelling me earlier I haven't really noticed him. On October 17 2012 06:42 kushm4sta wrote: Massive time dump thread read progress note: Memetoss and hiropro and looking really town. Note: do not be fooled into thinking djodref is town from his long ass post. A lot of newbie scums do this as something safe and easy they can do to make them look town. He's being nice, too nice. It's as if thrawn pointed the cheeriness of his meta d1 and since then he has gone into super happy friendly mode. On October 17 2012 09:07 kushm4sta wrote: Read his filter and tell me that's not town. He's really open with his intentions and his current state of mind. =>seriously? He is very focused on finding scum. He pursues leads he believes in. His posts just seem really honest and sincere. And here regarding VE. + Show Spoiler + On October 19 2012 19:39 kushm4sta wrote: I would lynch ve. Not sure if he's scum but if he is that would feel really good so it's worth it. On October 19 2012 21:48 kushm4sta wrote: you did not actively push any of those lynches. The only possibilities were me, austin, djo, and dao. And none of those lynches.but Austin looked.good to me. Today you don't even like any of those lynches. This inidicates who I'm willing to lynch and who I'm not.at this point. ve thrawn mementoss 1der djo dao And today his list has changed with no explanations.. On October 21 2012 02:15 kushm4sta wrote: thrawn then daoud is what I'm thinking now I guess. I'm not totally against a consolidation on thrawn today but I want first kush to explain in details all these posts. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 21 2012 08:01 VisceraEyes wrote: phoneposting. Will post when I get home tonight. Can't promise sobriety, though. lol I did look over Da0 and Thrawn. I'm more convinced of a Da0 lynch and less convinced of a Thrawn lynch after rereading, but can lynch either one. I just prefer Da0. Still not interested in a Dj lynch. @VE You have to bring godlike arguments to convince me that da0ud is scum. I understand why, as a mafia player, you would like to push for a da0ud's lynch as he is , in my eyes, the easiest mislynch possible ever. This post has then just reinforced my conviction that you are indeed mafia. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
@VE Why don't you also cast your friend vote ? I'm curious to see who you are going to choose | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
What about deadline also ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
This day lasts 48 hours so it makes the deadline monday morning at 8am for me. I'll wake up before to check the thread and see if anything went crazy like last time. I guess it makes it at 7am for you in Hong Kong. If you don't think you can wake up for the deadline, you absolutely have to vote now. By the way, I'm going to send my PM to the hosts right now. It looks like we can only consolidate on thrawn so... Foe Thrawn I'm not going to put it in the voting thread but I'll pm it right away ! | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I've felt so much pressure... Like thrawn "why do you buddy me so hard?" or kush "why you think you are not gonna die" austin case was perfect, the only bad thing was his gut feeling... Hopeless you did catch a scum with your scum trap ^^ | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Sorry... | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Also thank you thrawn for the meta warning, I've started to put smileys everywhere after that I was not sure how to play it during D1 but after that I found my "story" and I stuck to it | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 22 2012 08:44 kushm4sta wrote: my new scumhunting strategy: make a list of suspected town and scum reverse it gg scum. lol kush <3 thank you for defending me ! | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I was expecting something benefiting the mafia D4 | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I was sure to get lynched after Mementoss case and I think that I've slipped a little in my posts before I went to bed. Also I believe that the timezones really helped me during this game because I didn't have to interact so much directly with you. I could spend some time to prepare my "reads" posts and nobody could really call me about it. For example, I was lurking around at the deadline when Hopeless/ON was about to end but Hopeless was looking very town and I didn't want to come in the thread and get back my votes. I'm really surprised that you went as far as to count the number of smiles I put in my posts :O Thanks to Hiro and VE for their support ! They prevented me from doing really stupid things | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
The potato thing was hilarious | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Even with the 4 town votes against a mafia member, 2 last minute friend votes would have lower the count to 2. So at the end, we have 2 people with a total of 2 votes. I thought that the first one (ie the townie) would have been lynched in this case. That's why I told everybody to friend himself. But is my reasoning right ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
| ||
| ||
