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@da0ud
When you look at the final vote count, you realize that you, Mementoss and Thrawn are at the end of the list. It means that you are generally acknowledged as town players.
On October 19 2012 07:52 kitaman27 wrote:
Day Three Update
45 austin
41 djodref
40 kushm4sta
36 hiro
33 hopeless1der
33 thrawn
32 mementoss
28 da0ud
If we don't have a medic, which I doubt, the mafia is going to kill one of us tonight. Tomorrow we are likely to be in a situation with only 6 players left (4 town and 2 mafia). This situation is a mylo situation, for mislynch or lose.
It means that if we mislynch again tomorrow, we are going to be 3 town and 2 mafia before the night and most likely 2 vs 2 the last day. In this case, mafia wins. Am I right, because it still could be possible for town to win if we have more potato days and be lucky this time?
That's why we need absolutely to lynch one mafia member tomorrow. On the opposite, mafia has to kill the players with the most town cred (provided they are not mafia themselves) to increase their chances to lead to a mislynch.
I believe you are still a potential mislynch, so I don't think that mafia is going to kill you tonight. It's the same for me by the way 
Right now, I believe that Mementoss, Thrawn and maybe Hopeless are the most townie like among us. I would be very surprised if one of them is not killed tonight, I'm even expecting mafia to kill Mementoss. There might be a mafia player between the 3 of them but definitively not the two of them imo (or else I have to say gg wp guys).
I think we should focus our efforts to find and lynch the scum between the other people. And this time we need to consolidate because mafia can try to change the result of the vote at the deadline.
I strongly believe that Hiro was scum, so I want to push a VE lynch for tomorrow.
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@VE
Why a medic should target you ?
Look at the final vote list, you are not considered as town among us.
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EBWOP: Where were you by the way ?
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And one more time, the list thing doesn't mean anything. I've tried to rank my reads the best I could all day long but at the end, it is just a tool to get the lynch the way we wanted (i.e thrawn and me). I wanted daoud not to be mislynched, even by putting myself at risk (I'm putting myself second on the list by doing that), do you think a mafia player would do this ?
I must admit that, in this case, the only thing that would make sense is a djodref/daoud scumteam but you'll see that I'm town if you flip me and I still believe that daoud is town.
Moreover, it would be a miracle for such a newb/newb/lurker scumteam to go that far...
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I have a feeling that nobody looks at my filter for my cases, only for finding stupid things I've said to attack me...
Could you please check Hiro's filter and tell me what you think about these points ?
D1/N1
- talkative about the lynch mechanics but a lot less about the match-ups in general
- kush and me on his radar then drops us (not even commenting my matchup against sandro)
- gives his thoughts but mainly when people ask him for it, retaining info in general
- too decisive to be true regarding his ON votes (R3 and R4) => he was bussing him
- cast scummy shadow on prplhz for voting Sandro before we know this one is going to turn town
D2/N2
- holds the potato for a bad reason => retaining info
- not giving scumreads at the execption of prplhz (even if I get back on his radar)
- disregards me and my questions
- promise scumreads and disappear
The potato thing is important ! Please do not discard it !
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@thrawn
On October 18 2012 13:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
no I don't want to lynch him because I don't like lynching replacements, especially when the replace in with like 24 hours left till lynch.
As for your case, I don't think the "not giving potato to prplhz" is a good argument. Reading through his filter at that time it really looked like he had good reasons for not doing so. (He planned on giving prplhz the potato right before the 24 hour mark) Other than that the main stuff everyone (including me) has been citing as suspicious behavior was his lurking... well when he gets a replacement that makes me think he has legitimate real life reasons for his low activity. That does not point to townie or scummy... it just means he didn't have enough time to properly play the game so I can't make any judgement calls based on the fact that he was a lurker. Other than that, the posts he did make were well reasoned etc so I don't see anything damming enough to lynch his replacement. At this point my read on hiro is basically null and it's all going to be based off my read on VE from now on.
Ok, here is some comments from you about my "potato" point. By the way, this 24hours thing is bullshit, nobody could have known that for sure.
Now here is one other post from you from before.
On October 15 2012 14:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
da0 if you are town then you keeping the potato does not help town.
why i think both da0 and prp are scum = they both want/agree to hold onto the potato. what town player would want the potato? no town player wants the potato unless they think they know when the potato goes kapow and nobody knows when that'll happen. why would scum want the potato? to gain town cred by pretending not to care if they have the potato.
da0 you should be talking about who is scum... and you;re going to have to try harder than making crazy night action theories. That theory did make a little bit of sense but it's all circumstantial and it assumes that the mods were hovering over the thread at the exact moment the night actions were sent in
Why did you change your mind ?
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@VE
Why are you getting so angry because I want people to focus their attention on Hiro's filter ?
I don't think that my points are directly directed to his inactivity. I think they stand by themselves and gather enough evidence for me to think you are mafia !
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Also regarding austin being on 2#, here are my explanations for it
On October 18 2012 17:17 Djodref wrote:Regarding austin being in 2nd position, I think he deserves it for two reasons - his washy-washy case against me (I'm looking scum but I'm town on a gut feeling)
- him hard-tunneling mementoss when the latter one has showed pro-town play lately
and also because it's more likely for all the others to be town.
I was also here at the deadline and I didn't believe his claim so I didn't want to change my vote list except for preventing a mislynch on Daoud. You could have as well tried to bus austin 
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This game is so frustrating sometimes...
How can I push anybody if people don't really read my cases ?
Anyway I'm glad you have changed your mind. For the moment, VE is quite aggressive against me but I would like him to answer my questions.
@VE
Where were you yesterday ?
Why should an hypothetical medic target you ?
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@Kush
You had a town read on Hiro, you need to come with better explanations than this.
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Seriously kush, if you are town, you cannot afford to play like this anymore because I believe that we are going to be a mislynch away from defeat. And right now, you could be a perfect mislynch (or a perfect lynch I don't know anymore after all the austin stuff).
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What are you thoughts about the potato ?
So who do you think are the remaining mafia ?
And who do you think is going to be NKed ?
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@Mementoss
On October 18 2012 11:30 Djodref wrote:Regarding Daoud defense, here is a compilation of my previous posts on the subject. I didn't get so much feedback so I'm putting them here again. You can skip it if you have already read it but I would appreciate you taking a second look at it. Here I present what lead us to prplhz mislynch and why I think we are also risking a mislynch on daoud + Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote:
Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud
My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler +I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons - Questionable post quality
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then backing off
- Attempt to get town credit for his last minute "save"
- Association with ON
- Holding onto the potato (scum players are known to like potato)
- Wanting to blow ET with his potato
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Pushing Sandroba lynch, then having a very poor defense for his actions
- Association with ON
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote:
I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum.
This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense.
ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know.
Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this.
If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left - OMGUSing, using weird logic to find scum
- Wanting for the majority to decide what to do with his potato (he didn't get to hold the potato at all but w/e)
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. Here is my second defense from Daoud. It is based on my take of the different strategies mafia could use with the killings of Sandro and ET. I've realized that Hopeless was looking even worse while writing this post so I mention him in it. It was before I could read Mementoss post and it is not relevant regarding my reasoning. + Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote:First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts. I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:57 sandroba wrote:
Just lynch da0ud, then prplhz, then you figure the rest out if the game is not over. Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote:
need to lynch da0ud.
tunneling is not an inherently bad thing. Another way to phrase it is "focusing on someone you think is scum and getting them lynched". Calling kush scummy for tunneling doesn't make sense. Tunneling is an inherent part of playing the game, unless you enjoy being unfocused. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie+ Show Spoiler +So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy - Do you really think that protecting daoud is a good strategy ? Maybe you should just bus him hard...
- Do you allow him to go in OMGUS mode on Sandroba, after a "hunch" ?
- On top of that, do you let him cast 9 ninja votes on Sandroba, without posting at all during R4 ?
- Don't you tell him to just shut up because every defensive post he does makes him look even worse ?
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now.
You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway.
After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post
"lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays)
And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg.
I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. /snip Now I would like the people wanting to lynch daoud ask themselves the following questions, assuming that daoud is scum - What is doing his scumbuddy in the mafiaQT ? Because obviously he is not trying to help him...
- Why daoud did not use his 9 votes at all during the match-up between Hopeless and ON ? If I remember correctly, ON was set to advance for a long time before kush decided to vote bomb Hopeless. I cannot imagine a scum newb like daoud not trying to save his partner.
Regarding daoud, do you have some answers for the questions I wanted you to ask yourself if you though he was scum ?
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Obviously he doesn't care who is going to be lynched because he is scum.
By the way, did you re-read Hiro's filter with my new points on it ?
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@Kush
If you had been given the potato at the beginning of D2, what would you have done with it ?
I mean, who would you have given the potato and when ?
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On October 19 2012 21:23 kushm4sta wrote:
@ djo I would have immediately given it to prpl... you are obsessed with this potato.
That's the thing !
I'm just trying to make you see the problem by yourself.
Hiro said he was keeping the potato because he was controlling the lynch this way. He said something about keeping it for 24 hours and then giving it to prplhz. He didn't even respect what he was saying because that was bullshit.
I'm saying he was keeping the potato for the sake of keeping the potato. Because that what scum would do (or desperate townies). Prplhz said it himself, he was going to try to keep the potato long enough to convince us that he was town.
I bet Hiro was doing exactly the same, holding onto the potato to show us that he was not afraid of dying.
But at the end, his scum survival instincts took over.
Why didn't he give it immediately to prplhz ? I would have done this, you would have done this, everybody asked him to do this. But he kept the potato, retaining info, trying to get some town cred.
I could only see scum motivation for such a move.
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On October 19 2012 21:51 Mementoss wrote:
i dont understand why everyone in the thread feels the need to defend da0 at all costs
First thing for me is a gut feeling. When I try to read his filter objectively, I read him as complete newbie.
I cannot imagine anyone forge anything like this. The best example being him not knowing about the blue roles.
Maybe the more important thing is that he is obviously playing alone. I'm pretty sure that nobody is here to explain him how to defend himself, how to look consistent, how to not ninja-vote and so on. Moreover he doesn't follow any strategy.
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I've just read his filter once more and I don't think this level of newbieness could be forged.
If he got us fooled (I mean thrawn, kush and me), I'd say he deserves a victory...
I've played the newbie card a lot in my last game because I was a cop. I think in this case you use it in an apologetic way, whether you want it or not. You don't go crazy when you got called for dick riding Thrawn and end up with someting like this+ Show Spoiler +On October 17 2012 15:40 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 13:10 kushm4sta wrote:On October 17 2012 12:34 da0ud wrote:
I was actually pretty sure Thrawn would get killed, as he has been the most consistent at behaving town. On top of that he is a good player (in my modest opinion) so I thought it would have been a big hit to us in fighting for who are the real scumies left.
Are we playing the same game?? Why is thrawn so town? Because he doesn't act retardedly? That's enough to make you town now? Read his filter. He has contributed nothing. His only case was a bad one on SANDROBA, confirmed town, which he went back on extremely easily. Frankly I am baffled by this thrawn dickride. I want you to explain. If you do not explain adequately I will support your lynch. gogo. Keep in mind this: the people who seem the scummiest probably aren't scum. That is because they don't care about stopping themselves from looking scummy. They are just going to act however they want to act. Scum, however, will go out of their way to act town.
@daoud explain your thrawn dickride You are right I think I am not really playing the same game. More like the paranoid game indeed. lol. Don't worry there is no language barrier, it is pretty much me being dumb and that's it. I have been working in HK for 5 yrs now mostly with native english speaking people (including Aussies and Kiwis). So I don't want you to put my stupidity in me not understanding what is happening. I am probably too lazy and busy in the morning too really read very carefully and take notes. I usually catch back on the thread in the morning when there is action at work. I try to do it as fast as possible otherwise there is no one to actually share views with me. I should read slower and more carefuly. But whatever... Thank to you, Kush, and thrawn himself to make me read entirely his filter. And there is not much in there. Thrawn you go from my first town read to second scum read. Here are the three main reasons : 1) Your votes in Day1 went for prplhz (town), Sand twice (town), Djo (very town-looking, again I will re-read his filter, but he makes very good cases). He initially votes Sand in the finals and when he sees suspicions onto ON he unvotes then changes to ON. 2) this post : Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 11:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
guys hurry up with the night actions I'm eager to learn about the new lynch mechanics Too naive, almost similar to mine where i imply the last one to act was scum. Here basically he implies I have nothing to do, or not much talking to do with my scum team, so hurry up => VERY VERY SCUMMY3) this other post : Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 21:11 thrawn2112 wrote:On October 16 2012 21:04 kushm4sta wrote:
@thrawn have you ever rolled scum before? Do not answer for liquid city since that game is ongoing.
If you rolled scum what would you play like? no I haven't (unless you count sk) so I have no idea. I'd either ask my mafia bros for advice the entire time or I'd just tell them to bus the shit out of me D1. or I might bus the shit out of them the whole game. When looking at action, no one votes on him so didn't ask his mates to bus the sh!t out of him. Did not bus the sh!t out of them either cause mostly accused or voted townies. Hence is actions are the opposite of what he PRETENDS he would do if he were scum.This is too big to be true. There is more to say but i will focus on others as well. Thanks Kush for waking me up, you going down my ladder I started already in Day2.
Also I've just noticed how he reacted to the potato situation. I was planning to do more or less the same stuff that prplhz did (well he didn't want to blew up ET but prplhz didn't do it at the end).
I think they both wanted to keep the potato because they were both desperate and unable to prove their innocence.
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@Hopeless
Hopeless, I've almost managed to totally changed my mind about you. I'm waiting for the NK to be sure. I'll explain at the beginning of D3.
So I'm begging you to change your mind about daoud. Right now, I think at 95% that he is town. He is the perfect mislynch.
Please remember that obvious scum is usually town
Also I would like to have you input regarding my latest points on Hiro's filter.
At least, I want you to answer the following questions
- What do you think is saying daoud's partner in the mafia QT ?
- What do you think about this post+ Show Spoiler +
On October 12 2012 16:59 da0ud wrote:
H1 vs ON :
It bothers me as well that ON doesnt seem to care very much and has posted only a few messages. Most of them being useless (like his phone being dead for 24hrs, the panic votes). Since then nothing has been posted and I agree that it seems odd for someone from town not to participate in the lynching process as it is its only real way of finding scum. I would expect even more a townie to participate if he is still on for lynching.
It makes sense for mafia not to worry about advancing if his accomplices do manage to save him at any future round.
H1 posts seems pretty coherent i am maybe too newbie to have a good read out of it. I haven't played no game with any of you in the past, and i actually don't really want to because i want to make myself an opinion out of your posts and not ur behaviour in other games.
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Ok guys, I was hoping to discuss with more people tonight but I need to get some sleep.
VE is not here to address my questions nor any questions so I'm just going to say that his last post way unnecessarily aggressive. I'm sorry to bring up a very basic point but you were not promoting a good atmosphere for the discussion.
I'm tunneling like this because I was convinced that Hiro was scum before you replaced him. The latest points I want people to comment on concern only Hiro's filter and not yours and are not related to lurking anymore (unlike my precedents points against Hiro).
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EPT
