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Djodref
France3332 Posts
 I've never played with any of you except Kush but I've watched your newbie games, I really liked them (so I wanted to join) and I liked your town meta. I think I am better at townreads than scumreads right now (debears scum -> town, shady scum -> town, sandro scum -> town, prplhz scum -> town) and I've got the same kind of feeling when I read your filter than when I've read your previous games. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 18 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: Djodref Part I: Round III Hopeless vs ON Says he doesn't like lurking and lurking is scummy. But later he defends ON for lurking saying lurking usually doesn't flip scum. Ridiculous double standards whenever its needed. In my opinion, lurking is scummy but hardcore lurking tells nothing. This is how I would explain my double standards. Gives ON an excuse for being scummy, bringing doubt on putting ON through. Too scummy to be scum. Mafia don't usually flip when they are this obvious. Saying he wants to vote hopeless over ON but wont use more than 3 votes. More lurky than scummy, another excuse. First post with a lot of effort into it is trying to advance Hopeless over ON: + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote: As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 However, he wasn't convinced enough before to use more than 3 votes, WHATS THIS, oh the situation changed, more people are voting ON than he thought. Now he decides he needs to use ALL his votes, that how convinced he is. I've explained many time why I have been using all my votes at that time. I was hoping to go to the finals against hopeless. Also you are deforming what happened during R3. Check the voting thread and you can easily see that I was the first one to vote this match-up. I think you had some confirmation bias while reading my filter  + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote: First of all, I'm disappointed that Hopeless did not advance to the final. Right now, I would like him to be lynched, at least for the confusion he is putting me through. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen today... I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 ! Concerning today's lynch, I don't have any more votes so I have basically no power to change anything. Yet I would like to use my words to convince you to lynch Sandroba over OriginalName. OriginalName I think everybody could agree that he is a total lurker. So let's look at the few things we have. His useless panic vote against is scummy as hell and his explanation for it was weak in my view because he calls me for a post I have made drunk and me backing off from this post later on. I was drunk and I've made a mistake at that time so it was natural for me to back off. But I understand it could be suspicious in another player eye so it could be a valid reason to vote me. Regarding his vote, I think a scum player would have avoided voting like this. And there it is, that's all we have from him ! I'm saying that it not enough to lynch him today. Sandroba Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter. Also, his unexplained hunch for me is a scumtell. I've been looking bad enough (and from my first post apparently) to advance until the semis but he is one of two players to have a town read on me (hello prplhz!). Moreover, he didn't bother to address this point. Regarding his last post, I was also drunken yesterday, I'm having a big hangover now, most likely I'm going to be drunk tonight again but I'm still trying to invest myself in this game. I imagine he is that disinterested right now because he is scum. If I had votes right now, I would use them to vote Sandroba. Hence, I recommend you to lynch him. "His panic vote is scummy as hell but I doubt scum would do this therefore not scum!" - Seems legit. Convincing people he is a total lurker and not mafia. Decides this is the perfect time to mention his scum read on vet sandroba. Wait what, he doesn't want to lynch ON the non vet lurker, but says Sandroba is also a lurker but its scummy for him. WTF. Seriously? Unexplained hunch is a scumtell. Doesnt explain how. His meta is different. Also doesn't explain how. I would still lynch sandroba over ON if you were giving me only the first page of his filter, which was the only info I had at the time I've made that post. He was giving reads without explanations (his hunches) and that's a scumtell for me. I wrote this post while I was having no vote to cast, in thought my reasoning was good so I have shared it with everybody. No effort put into this like the effort on hopeless to try and save ON. Hypocrite, obviously biased against sandroba. Makes his whole case up out of nothing to make it look better. He recommends we lynch sandroba. + Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote: I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? More doubt on the lynch. Part II: Wrong end of the lynch part 2: Another weak case that looks like a case just to be looking town and presenting the case. Also burns his hide just to look pro town. Part III: Im a Noobie! Guys im friendly town :+ Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote: On a side note, Daoud really looks like a newb townie. I advice him to be careful with early association cases because I also thought I got the complete scumteam on D1 of my last newbie game In a result I just have been tunneling our town MVP until my death... On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: I don't want to predict anything for this MU Also the predictions were fucking weird. Acting like he could read the future and shit, maybe its cause he knew what 2 other guys plans were. On October 12 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote: I'll check the thread when I wake up and I hope to be here for the deadline On October 12 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote: I just have caught up with the thread on my phone. First I would like to say that the predictions were a (failed) attempt to make my comments look like a starcraft MU preview. Thank you Kush for understanding me and believing in me On October 12 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless It's just that I didn't realize until late that the votes of ON on me were counting for this round. It felt like I was starting with an handicap but whatever... I don't want to get mislynched so I'll put more efforts in this game so everybody understand I can be a valuable asset for town Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon so you have to give me some more time. On October 12 2012 21:45 Djodref wrote: By the way, I'm going out for the night and I don't know if I would be able to wake up before 11am tomorrow, if you know what I mean On October 13 2012 15:43 Djodref wrote: @prplhz I would really appreciate you sharing with us all the info you have gathered with your questions here and there. I wouldn't mind if it was a long and articulate post. I'm starting to wondering if you are active in your scumhunting or just pretending to be active On October 14 2012 09:47 Djodref wrote: Ok, I see. I had a little misunderstanding here. By the way if you don't really think either is super scummy, it's too bad you didn't use your votes to make scummier people advance in the previous stages then (it's just a joke, I've seen your explanations for it)Personally, I would still vote for Sandroba if I could but I guess it depends on your level of conviction for him to be scum. On October 14 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote: LOL So is this standard to have a total lurker in every scumteam ? It's the case in all my games so far Holy fuck, Im done with all the smileys, you get the point he wants to look like harmless friendly old townie djo. His night 2 posts looked really townie. But they are easy to construct as mafia. Da0d is currently leading, and although Djo wanted nothing to do with his lynch, he isn't trying to convince anyone. He did not try to push Hiro even after he thought my hopeless post made sense. Also, he posted early out of excitment or WIFOM warning, because he knew he wasn't going to die. I think your part III is weak, this is just my posting style Djo, not as fucking townie as everyone thinks. Moving him up my list. In conclusion recap: -Hard defense on Ro3 ON vs Hopeless, uses all votes I would do it again. I still think this is my best move during this game -Hard defense on ON , trying to convince people to vote sandroba I prefer to lynch a scummy lurker (aka Sandro) than an hardcore lurker (aka ON). I don't care who is vet. Sandroba was looking bad at that time, bad enough for having a lot of votes against him. Moreover, I think a mafia player with no votes would have just shut up. I was trying to push people to lynch the guy who I thought was scum. -puttin doubt on ON lynch Didn't want to lynch an hardcore lurker. Moreover, I thought a mafia player would have not attracted attention over himself by voting at deadline. -Double standards on different lurkers, ON vs Hiro/hopeless/me early I've made my post when I voted you drunken and I wanted to vote ET instead of you at that time for not using the voting thread iirc. -weak case on prplhz, doesn't attempt to look outside prplhz and da0d even though he thinks da0d is town and has a good chance at being lynched My case against prplhz was good enough for me. I've also always said that Hiro was on my scumlist. Confirmation bias here -Trying really hard to look town and harmless, calling himself a noob and bad and smiley faces. Check my previous game and you are going to see the same meta -Isn't pushing his town read day 3 or his scum reads I'm trying to push but there is no one in the thread when I post and I have the feeling that everybody disregard my cases. -pretty much has been floating by without suspicion because of ON's panic votes. WIFOM, ON coulda been bused and coulda been used to make djo look townie. For the final touch, I'm going to quote my attacker himself On October 15 2012 20:48 Mementoss wrote: Also, I'm gunna try to shy away from the connection cases with ON. Simply for the fact that ON was the perfect bus target. He was useless, and inactive so was guaranteed to get lynched eventually and gave easy town credibility on any one voting him. It also gives scum a chance who voted him, to shift the attention off themselves by using oh he voted for ON not to move on in this matchup, SCUM SCUM. So yeah, I'll take it into account when reading filters, but I think ON was probably bussed. @Mementoss If you think I didn't address some things properly, please let me know. I liked your case against me even if some parts are not exactly correct. I would appreciate you to give me some comments on my cases for Hiro/VE. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
austinmcc -> Mementoss da0ud -> ? djodref -> VE kushm4sta -> Thrawn Hopeless1der -> daoud Thrawn2112 -> ? Mementoss -> Djodref VisceraEyes -> austin Maybe we should try to consolidate ? I think that VE is a good compromise On a serious note, I could imagine austin, daoud or me lynched today. Would you agree on that one ? I don't want daoud to be lynched and I'm town. I need more time to look at austin. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
D1/N1
D2/N2
I'm just realizing that VE wants to lynch austin. I don't know what to think about this... | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Please also notice how he handles prplhz. That's why I want a VE lynch today. Also I'll put daoud as low as possible to avoid him a lynch. Updating my list right now... ##Vote 1-VisceraEyes 2-austinmcc 3-Hopeless1der 4-kushm4sta 5-Mementoss 6-Thrawn2112 7-da0ud 8-Djodref | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
and also because it's more likely for all the others to be town. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 20:29 Mementoss wrote: i cant believe djo is making a case on VE for lurking when the player got replaced. I mean, use your head, he got replaced because he had no time to post or lost interest. @Mementoss I don't understand how the following is a case about kurking... On October 18 2012 16:59 Djodref wrote: Did you check his filter ? D1/N1
D2/N2
I'm just realizing that VE wants to lynch austin. I don't know what to think about this... Could have have some honest comments on these points ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm quite sure that ON has been bussed. Please have a look at Hiro's filter and imagine him with the intent of bussing ON. You guys are putting too much importance on the matchup Hopeless/ON. It could have just been a town/town fight for all we know. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 23:55 Mementoss wrote: also wifom thought, I know a slight majority of people wanted prplhz over da0d. But why wasn't scum squirming when there was 2 candidates and scum was one of them? Or they coulda just told da0d to make a case so everyone was like lol fuck it lynch prphlz, da0d is actually trying The main problem is that we didn't have the control of the lynch so nobody really cared. At the moment when prplhz kept the potato to try to blow ET with it was over. As I said, scum just had to go with everybody and say: "lol, pass the potato, daoud and prplhz so scummy!" and go on holidays | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
lol What I wanted to say is that everybody is focusing too much on this MU. But when you look at it, on one side, you had a guy who admitted playing scummy on purpose. Some people might believe in it, some other not. On the other side, you had an hardcore lurker with panic votes, who turned out to be a mafia. Mafia could try to bus, protect or even do nothing with the lurker. We don't know. I don't think you can get reliable info from these votes. Explanations are what matters. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 19 2012 00:13 thrawn2112 wrote: I strongly disagree with this and therefore I am suspicious of your motives behind making this post.... Ok, it's just that I'm tired of explaining myself over and over again for these votes. I'm sorry, I really don't want to get mislynched for them. So let me ask all of you what do you think about my explanations for these votes ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
What happened during the night ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
y u no give the role ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 19 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: so on a scale of one to town hes townier than you, yet you know your own alignment? I've used my list as a tool to protect the guy I'm almost sure to be a mislynch. I don't care if it doesn't reflect exactly my thoughts and knowledge about my alignments. That's why I wanted us to use a majority lynch in parallel so we don't waste our time attacking each other on how we are using our list. I know you have said that you want to lynch anyone doing that kind of stuff but I didn't sign anything with you regarding that. | ||
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