EPTOn October 17 2012 22:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
I was talking about r4 not r3
I was talking about r4 not r3
My bad
You are right, he was the decisive vote during R4. Pretty fun that he did this with his last remaining vote.
Looney Lynching Mini Mafia - Page 6
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
My bad You are right, he was the decisive vote during R4. Pretty fun that he did this with his last remaining vote. | ||
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Djodref
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Djodref
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I feel I have been totally rape-ninjaed by mementoss... @mementoss Do you find my defense too much WIFOM ? | ||
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Djodref
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I think you misunderstood me. My defense is based on the fact that it's more likely than daoud is a mislynch pushed by the mafia than a mafia player (this based on the possible strategies followed by the mafia while killing Sandro and ET). And I think that my point is valid, even if it's based on something we cannot be sure of. I thought it could incriminate you at the same time because you were pushing him. About changing my mind, mementoss post about you is quite solid, and I'm afraid right now that I was wrong. Anyway, I would appreciate more post and more content from you, regardless of your alignment. @Everyone I need to update my ranking but I want to see first how are going to contribute Kush and Hopeless today. Right now, I'm thinking at something like 1 Hiro 2 3 4 5 Daoud 6 Mementoss 7 Thrawn 8 Djodref Mementoss has really impressed me with his post about Hopeless. I cannot see anything but town motives for such a post. Nevertheless, I have thought at a Hopeless/Mementoss scumteam but I don't see it likely at all (maybe another stupid idea^^). I'll keep it in a corner of my mind if you survive for too long. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Because it was at first ON/Sandroba then Hopeless/Sandroba then ON/Sandroba By the way I don't understand why a scum Daoud would have not voted in that matchup, given his level of play. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm updating my list according to my latest feelings while reading the thread ##Vote 1-Hiro 2-Austin 3-Hopeless 4-Kush 5-Daoud 6-Mementoss 7-Thrawn 8-Djodref | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
austin is #2 on my list but right now it is due to an elimination process. I need more time to think it through because it is difficult for me to get a good read of him. I was leaning town on him but he is still tunneling mementoss, which posts have greatly improved, and it irks me a lot. But I'm not in favor of killing him right now. @everyone I really wanted to lynch Hopeless today but Mementoss defense post is really strong in my opinion. When I've made my post against him, I was convinced that Hopeless was playing us all with him playing scummy on purpose, admitting it and then laying low. I still don't like how much he wants to lynch daoud today but it is understandable, daoud looks bad enough. Much more understandable than a scum Hopeless playing scummy on purpose before facing his scum buddy ON in the semis. Quite stupid case from me... But if I want to keep being stupid, I can imagine a Mementoss/Hopeless scumteam. Very unlikely because of how much Mementoss is looking town in my eyes since D2 but I'm going to keep it for later. At this point of the game, I don't expect Thrawn or Mementoss surviving much more longer. So today I want to lynch Hiro/VE as he is my top scum read at the moment. Nobody has really commented yet my post against Hiro so far and I'm little disappointed. I want also to avoid a mislynch on Daoud. I'm also going to address the cases against me  | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Here I present what lead us to prplhz mislynch and why I think we are also risking a mislynch on daoud + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 01:00 Djodref wrote: Why we shouldn't lynch Daoud My main point here is that we have made a mistake while lynching prplhz and I'm afraid that we might do it again if we were to lynch Daoud. First I would like to compare the reasons why we want to lynch them. + Show Spoiler + I've tried to analyze the reasons which lead to the D2 prplhz's debacle. At that time, prplhz felt like the perfect lynch candidate. Mainly because of the following reasons
Now let's take a look at the reasons advanced for daoud's lynch
If you see anything thing big that I have missed, I would enjoy to discuss it. Anyway, there are some common reasons between these two and I think that some of them are just not so good. I'm not saying that they are not valid but I don't think they should carry too much weight in our scumhunt. I'm going to elaborate the push of Sandroba and the association with ON in the next spoiler. Why pushing Sandroba was not so relevant + Show Spoiler + Among us, we have been a lot to suspect Sandro during the first stages of D1: he didn't randomly advance to the finals. When you look at his filter until the following post, he looks pretty scummy. On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. I've been wanting to lynch him at this point and it was the same for Thrawn, Kush, and Daoud. I've haven't been here to witness the rise of town Sandro later on but I think it was totally ok to have wanted to lynch him at that time. We shouldn't have blamed prplhz for this and we should not blame anybody for this. After that, prplhz didn't realize his mistake fast enough and I guess that daoud wasn't even here to see the real town Sandro as he missed all the deadlines. Regarding the Daoud's defense regarding his vote, I would agree that it looks pretty bad. I don't want to give him total clearance because of this precise point but given the general level of his posts and his awareness of the game, I can imagine him as total town newbie with clumsy defense. Why the association case with ON is not so relevant + Show Spoiler + ON was a lurker. I don't know what we can guess from his few interactions with the world. The two votes he threw on me were not even useful, I don't see any purpose for them. They might have been real panic votes, maybe not. We don't know. Same, anybody could say anything about a lurker. Mafia can try to bus or to save. Town can say scummy or townie (see prplhz as an extreme example). The thing is that he was a lurker. We cannot have anything tangible from this. The final reasons to lynch Daoud + Show Spoiler + If we discard the previous reasons, here is what is left
I think these reasons are not a making a solid enough case. He could be newb scum or he could be newb town but my guts are leaning towards town when I read his filter. Especially when he has tried to improve his play during potato day. Regarding the potato, prplhz didn't pass it and it was not town in my eyes but maybe you see things differently when you have everybody on your back. One last thing. When I'm looking back at D2, I have a feeling this day was wasted. Because we had two obvious targets, we didn't think about if they were the right targets or not. Please think how easy it would be to push such mislynches when no one is thinking twice. Mafia totally got us and I bet they were enjoying nice holidays. Conclusion Daoud is looking scummy but he is not the right target. I have a strong feeling that he is in fact a newbie that is going to be mislynched. I would prefer than we not lynch him and focus on the right targets starting from tomorrow. I'm going to present them to you in my following posts. Here is my second defense from Daoud. It is based on my take of the different strategies mafia could use with the killings of Sandro and ET. I've realized that Hopeless was looking even worse while writing this post so I mention him in it. It was before I could read Mementoss post and it is not relevant regarding my reasoning. + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 20:58 Djodref wrote: First things first, regardless of daoud possible alignment, we could all agree that he is a total newbie, he doesn't know how to scumhunt nor defending himself properly and he has some weird posts. I'm also going to assume that we have 3 mafia players in this game. And here is what I've found while reading the game. These are statements made by Sandroba and ET the night where they were killed. We have straightforward posts from both of them. Let's make the assumption that daoud is a scum newbie + Show Spoiler + So there is ON, daoud and one unlucky guy in the scumteam. In this case, the killings of Sandroba and ET may have been motivated by a surviving strategy. ON has been lynched D1 and the team wants to protect daoud from a lynch. I can imagine such a strategy from the mafia scumteam, especially when things start to look bad when ON advances to the final. But imagine now that you are the last mafia, this one unlucky guy
There is only one possibility and you know it, this one unlucky guy has to be kush in this case. (This is just a joke, kush has been terribad as scum in my last newbie, no hard feelings kush <3) Let's make the assumption that daoud is a town newbie + Show Spoiler + I know it's bad but let's imagine that you are the mafia right now. You and your evil mafia partner have been noticing how easily you could push a mislynch on daoud or prplhz after their unfortunate votes on Sandroba. His last will post is just a gift from the gods to achieve your evil plans and you do not hesitate to kill this guy who would have been a pain in the ass anyway. After a wearisome D1 where one of your partner have been lynched for inactivity, you just have to post "lol, daoud and prplhz so scum, just pass the potato to each other, gg" (everybody did it, maybe some irritating guy like mementoss was trying to say something else but you weren't paying attention anyway because you were on holidays) And there you are, N2, and you discover another gift of the gods in the last will of the unfortunate ET. Kill this guy, push a mislynch on the newbie (hello Hopeless) and it's almost gg. I know there is a lot of speculation about the actions of the mafia in this post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would really appreciate some feedback on this because I don't know if I'm just wasting my time thinking about why the mafia have killed Sandro and ET. But right now, I'm pretty sure daoud would be a mislynch and I would really like to convince you so. /snip Now I would like the people wanting to lynch daoud ask themselves the following questions, assuming that daoud is scum
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
The main reason why I'm making these long posts is because I have almost nobody to interact with me. Everyday I wake up there is like 3-4 new pages of posts and I have a lot to catch up. By the time I have processed everything, there is nobody in the thread anymore, at the exception of daoud, thrawn and kush sometimes. They are the people I interact the most with (plus I know thrawn and kush meta) and that's why I think my reads on them are correct. @Kush I was expecting a case against me and you take my defense against Mementoss. Sometimes I don't understand you... I would have preferred to defend myself first and I would have loved to see your case against me but w/e. It's difficult for me to imagine a scum Kush backing off his first read and defending me. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
 I have a time for analyzing and a time for discussing, that's all. | ||
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Djodref
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Not yet, I want people to seriously consider Hiro/VE for today. I want some real discussion about it and then I'll decide if austin is better or not. I'm preparing some stuff against Hiro right now. What do you mean with your last post ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Can I have your comments about my last post + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote: Why we should lynch Hiro I consider Hiro as my second scumread behind Hopeless. I'm going to present you why I'm supportive of a Hiro lynch tomorrow. First of all, I've been suspicious of Hiro since the beginning of the game. This suspicious was maybe ill-based at the beginning but it grew stronger when I've seen him tunneling me during the majority of D1. Anyway, here are my current reasons to lynch Hiro. In my eyes, he is
Lurky + Show Spoiler + Hiro has been a difficult read for me because he doesn't post so much. I've been reading his filter a few times (don't worry it's not too long) and I would have appreciated him posting more because I cannot see his motivations clearly. Hopeless and him have roughly same sized filters but Hopeless gives at least some excuses for his lurking while it looks like Hiro drops by whenever he feels like it (like the potato episode). He also totally disregarded my calls to him to participate more. He likes to ask some pertinent questions and to give his comments when people ask him for it but he is not giving anything by himself. Not pushing nor sharing his scumreads + Show Spoiler + So far, Hiro has only shared with us two of his scumreads: prplhz and me. I didn't see any attempt from him to push my lynch while I was a semi-finalist. He turned his scumread into a null read I guess for meta reasons. While letting Sandro advance at the same time. Regarding prplhz, I agree it was more difficult to really push for his lynch. But when you look at it, Hiro has suggested that prplhz was scum D1 and then accepted it for granted after that people have made their strong stances against him on D2. This move looks really scummy to me. Moreover, we don't know whoever else could be on his scumlist. Not giving the potato immediately to prplhz + Show Spoiler + Some of you might consider this is not a big issue but I think that we lost potential information during D2 because the potato was not circulating. As his behavior didn't reflect the reason why he told us he was not giving the potato, I think he might have other motives for it. And he still didn't answer me why ! Conclusion I have been suspicious of Hiro for quite a long time and I was not sure if I was focusing on the right person. The comments he made were giving good insight on the game but I didn't notice until lately that he is in fact a little reluctant to participate. The most incriminating part is that he didn't try to push prplhz but waited for the case to be made. And he likes potato ! Would you like to lynch him today ? | ||
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Djodref
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If possible, I would like everybody reading Hiro's filter before reading this post. Don't worry, it's only 3 pages, and there is not so much content. Also I find it suspicious to have a replacement happening this late in the game, but I don't know if it's common or not. My main points against him
During D1, he has mostly talked about kush and me as his scumreads. People had to ask him questions about everything else to get him commenting about it. He was retaining info imo. The most flagrant case is that he didn't even comment nor vote my match-up against Sandroba when I had been his top scumread until the beginning of R3. He also avoided to comment a lot of match-ups. He was also very laconic regarding his change of mind about me. Moreover, he promised us a deadline post with scumreads which never come. You could always spare the time to write a one-liner... [*]Hiro has been insinuating that prplhz could be scum, without clearly pushing him. On October 13 2012 05:30 HiroPro wrote: you know what's hilarious about this? prplhz is a guy who follows vets around whenever he play and never tries to lynch them. And I'm a person who normally doesn't really care. When prplhz is acting like this, something is up. Especially when has that pissed "i'm mad and i want you to know it" tone going on. On October 13 2012 05:39 HiroPro wrote: He's trying to lynch sandroba. sandroba is a vet. do I need to spell this out for you? And right now he's mad with me. I can tell it. [*]Hiro has been holding the fucking potato. I don't see any town motivation for this and his explanations were poor. On October 15 2012 06:02 HiroPro wrote: Do you think that the potato will blow up before 24 hours? No, the chance is almost none. After that though, it's a toss up. And I intend to make sure that you are the one with the potato at 24 hours. So yes I do control the lynch. Plus he didn't want to answer at all when I called him on this point. That's why I want to lynch Hiro/VE today. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:40 thrawn2112 wrote: Do you really think this is a question that any mod would answer? I'd never ask something like this. I was asking you if you have seen late replacement in other games. Also, you did not want to modkill Lesrah during our last game when you should have done it because he was scum | ||
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Djodref
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On October 18 2012 13:54 thrawn2112 wrote: Reeeaaalllly scummy reasons to want to lynch somebody.... especially that 2nd bolded statement. How would you expect me to react ? I was almost convinced to have nailed a scum and I was sure to send him to the finals with my massive vote. And then the guy goes like, "yeah, I was playing scummy on purpose, I wanted some guy to write a case on me, this was my plan" and people believe him and he doesn't advance and I don't get to know if I was right or wrong. I thought that a scum Hopeless couldn't afford to OMGUS me with all his votes (which I was hoping for), so instead he gave me some town cred for making the case, when the purpose of his plan would have been to catch some scum. But a plan like this wouldn't make any sense for scum. So that makes him town. But I doesn't make any sense for a town player to play scum on purpose. So which one is it ? I have been torturing myself with all these questions last saturday and I wanted an answer. I didn't share this in the thread because it is just WIFOM bullshit. I've decided to give a second chance to Hopeless at the end but he didn't improve his play during D2 and now he wants to lynch daoud. So, even with Mementoss post, there is a part of me which still wants to lynch this guy. | ||
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Djodref
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Djodref
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He kept the potato because he wanted to retain some information, as he did during the majority of D1. Just look at his thread again and please check what is the proportion of posts are where he just answers to some people question in comparison of his total number of posts. | ||
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Djodref
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Djodref
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On October 18 2012 14:25 Hopeless1der wrote: I've finally gotten through Austin's case on MMT and I also reread through MMT's djodref case and his defense of me. Ultimately, I'm currently more town on MMT but unwilling to support a lynch on austin today. I read da0ud as scummy and I also don't think he's a prime candidate for any upcoming NK's, whereas Austin, MMT, VE are all significantly more likely to get taken out by scum (assuming they aren't scum themselves, duh). Lynching da0ud is a better longterm plan for town imo as it cleans out sandroba/ET's read on him and I think it will narrow our reads a lot more than say lynching MMT or Austin. Yes, its scummy to do things for information alone, but then again, why was ON lynched instead of sandroba? People (not me) felt they would be able to tell sandroba from sandroba. Can anyone in this game say the same of da0ud? I'm revising my votes so that MMT and Austin get my 6/7 spots. I don't want either lynched today because MMT has started to put down some serious effort into the thread (scum motivated or not) and Austin, while tunneling, is still known to post walls of text from time to time. There is also the fact that VE has just replaced in and has yet to properly sit down and take a good look at this game I think. 1-da0ud 2-djodref 3-kushm4sta 4-VisceraEyes 5-Thrawn2112 6-Mementoss 7-Austinmcc 8-Hopeless1der djodref is up there because in isolation, he's a scummier looking player, but I feel I'm really forcing any connections I make between him and other players. Since I want to hold off on MMT/Austin, after da0ud I'm ranking in the order of who I would care least if they were to go missing. I don't think kush or VE are going to be anywhere close to getting lynched, and I may need to move djodref around to have a better shot at da0ud. Really tired, so I'll lay out the short version of why I want da0ud before I go to sleep:
I disagree with you about daoud but I understand your motivations. I'm pretty sure he is going to be a mislynch and that we are probably going to end up in mylo because of this. Regarding all the stuff about moving people around in the list and so on, I think that's why we should better run our own majority lynch system for this round. I'm quite disappointed that nobody wanted to do it. By the way ##Vote VE | ||
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