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On October 02 2012 05:33 Drazerk wrote:
and pushing non lynch targets is a pretty good thing to do as scum IMO
Well, speaking of not assuming what scum would or wouldn't do... since we're in the realm of pure, unadulterated WIFOM from the purest sense of the word, it's also good for scum to push lynch targets. Since people assume that's not scum behavior, since it can be harder to keep things straight, it lets you hide in plain sight.
Everything and nothing is scummy in Mafia.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game.
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Dude, austin is a Nigerian prince. I had no idea. My apologies, your highness.
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On October 02 2012 05:33 Drazerk wrote:
and pushing non lynch targets is a pretty good thing to do as scum IMO
Sure. That's why he can't be scum. He's not really pushing mattchew. Nobody is going to vote Mattchew based on that. He's working of a premise that feels incredibly false. He could push matt or anyone else, but instead it's this weird OMGUS where matt is pushing iamperfection because he secretly wants to push JH but doesn't want to take responsibility for it, all while seeming to take responsibility for another lynch.
If anyone disagrees with that, speak up, but I read that post as really misrepresenting Mattchew and so I write the entire thing off.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Pushing lynch candidates is easy as hell as scum. Just don't read your scum team and go for it.
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On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game.
Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so...
Fuck it. DUCK SEASON!
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On October 02 2012 05:36 ghost_403 wrote:
Dude, austin is a Nigerian prince. I had no idea. My apologies, your highness.
This is what happens when you tell me I need sigs and profiles and crap for clue purposes.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON!
Enter into the WIFOM door
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On October 02 2012 05:42 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! Enter into the WIFOM door
Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly.
I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia.
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On October 02 2012 05:47 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! Enter into the WIFOM door Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly. I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia.
Unless you're gonna flip red here and prove me wrong, there are some posts that just don't come from townies.
Not that every townie every game posts something that shows he/she's town, but sometimes they pop up. Haven't been wrong about one yet.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 02 2012 05:50 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:47 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! Enter into the WIFOM door Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly. I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia. Unless you're gonna flip red here and prove me wrong, there are some posts that just don't come from townies. Not that every townie every game posts something that shows he/she's town, but sometimes they pop up. Haven't been wrong about one yet.
I wish you look trying to find a post that makes me look town.
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On October 02 2012 05:55 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:50 austinmcc wrote:On October 02 2012 05:47 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! Enter into the WIFOM door Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly. I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia. Unless you're gonna flip red here and prove me wrong, there are some posts that just don't come from townies. Not that every townie every game posts something that shows he/she's town, but sometimes they pop up. Haven't been wrong about one yet. I wish you look trying to find a post that makes me look town.
I feel like you'd be disappointed if I did.
I don't like your instant vote on me, though, especially since I think PTP3 was one of the games where I found someone absolutely townie.
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On October 02 2012 05:50 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:47 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! Enter into the WIFOM door Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly. I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia. Unless you're gonna flip red here and prove me wrong, there are some posts that just don't come from townies. Not that every townie every game posts something that shows he/she's town, but sometimes they pop up. Haven't been wrong about one yet.
Well, I'm less worried about being flipped than I am about the possibility of flipping with people not seeing the attack on me in the correct light. Dying as a townie can be irksome, but it can say a lot about the people in the game.
In PTP3, for example, early-ish, I was after Mattchew pretty hard. I was a townie. My power had randomly redirected his vigi shot. His claim looked really awkward, but then I claimed my role, to keep him from getting lynched for the wrong reason.
If there's anything worse than townies being wrong, it's deliberately ignoring possible information.
That, however, is exactly what you're doing. Regardless of the reason, you consider my concept of someone wanting to push without seeming to lead a push as insane, impossible, or improbable. That's disregarding a conclusion that the facts can lead to, even when we've just recently discussed that due to WIFOM, every action can be scummy or not scummy.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Eurgh I need to sleep
Luck* T_T
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Why is everyone ignoring mementoss this game? Hrmmmm... Interesting. I'll add him to my list of people I'm going to have to look into.
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On October 02 2012 06:00 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:50 austinmcc wrote:On October 02 2012 05:47 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:42 Drazerk wrote:On October 02 2012 05:39 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote:
Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! Enter into the WIFOM door Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly. I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia. Unless you're gonna flip red here and prove me wrong, there are some posts that just don't come from townies. Not that every townie every game posts something that shows he/she's town, but sometimes they pop up. Haven't been wrong about one yet. Well, I'm less worried about being flipped than I am about the possibility of flipping with people not seeing the attack on me in the correct light. Dying as a townie can be irksome, but it can say a lot about the people in the game. In PTP3, for example, early-ish, I was after Mattchew pretty hard. I was a townie. My power had randomly redirected his vigi shot. His claim looked really awkward, but then I claimed my role, to keep him from getting lynched for the wrong reason. If there's anything worse than townies being wrong, it's deliberately ignoring possible information. That, however, is exactly what you're doing. Regardless of the reason, you consider my concept of someone wanting to push without seeming to lead a push as insane, impossible, or improbable. That's disregarding a conclusion that the facts can lead to, even when we've just recently discussed that due to WIFOM, every action can be scummy or not scummy.
I think you're entirely misrepresenting what's going on, THAT is why I'm dismissing it. I don't disagree that scum could want to push x but try and avoid being the prime mover on x. I DO disagree than scum can want to push x, avoid being the primer on x, and cover it up by being the prime mover on y.
The WIFOM bit just isn't convincing to me until I get disproven.
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JH, why are you spending so much time defending yourself instead of just hunting for scum? And austin, why are you taking part of this conversation? I'm trying to figure out what the two of you are actually talking about, and I can't figure it out.
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On October 02 2012 06:05 ghost_403 wrote:
JH, why are you spending so much time defending yourself instead of just hunting for scum? And austin, why are you taking part of this conversation? I'm trying to figure out what the two of you are actually talking about, and I can't figure it out.
Need something to do while I'm trying to figure out a non-JH vote.
I'm intrigued by the mementoss suggestion and rereading him.
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On October 02 2012 05:36 ghost_403 wrote:
I'm still happy trying to lynch Keirathi today. After his initial case on Mattchew, he's done more or less no analysis this game. If looking through austin's previous games doesn't yield anything interesting, I might spend a bit more time staring at Keirathi's filter and write up my thoughts on it.
Please do. And little to no analysis? I've given full reads on you, Nisani, drazerk, and JH. Not sure what else you want from me.
"He's putting in too much effort to be town" is bullshit and there is literally no way I can even argue that, though.
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Mementoss, what's your read on Keirathi?
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EPT
