GSL Open Mini Mafia II - Page 2

On September 28 2012 17:45 ShiaoPi wrote:


First off: way too early for connection stuff, get a red flip (or any flip in that regard) first and then we get link people, but that is not necessarily a scumtrait

What I did not like was this post:



While I am also of the opinion that the hammer-vote has significantly more impact in this game, there is no reason to give out "warnings" since every player should read the thread and be active anyway, looked a bit like giving potential scum more time.

Also the various nitpicking stuff. As I said it is basically things which can be interpreted as scummy but are not necessarily so.


Now on to the stuff that happened while I was busy.
First off I don't want to lynch ottox today. You might say he is scummy for not defending himself and going after other people instead, I believe it to be more a towntrait to continue scumhunting, while being under pressure by yourself. Neither do I want to lynch thrawn or austin. Now who do I want to lynch?
I got several candidates at the moment:
First off Sinensis.

It feels like his cases and suspicions are kind of forced. There was not much of a basis on his suspicions towards austin (imo) and the current target thrawn would read as null-townish to me at the moment. While he has been an active person the real amount of contribution was kind of low, I also did not like the way he kept theorizing about Boxer or not Boxer-stuff when it was not really relevant at all.

Next up phagga:

His votepost really struck me as odd.
He accuses ottox of not playing like a townie should (scumhunting, establishing own innocence) while ottox' defense was precisely scumhunting on his own terms. While it may not be that good at establishing townieness, I think it to be town to look for scum instead of defending yourself all the time.

Last but not least iamperfection should really be stepping it up.
While he did the first vote of the game, it was with rather poor reasoning imo and he has largely gone back to lurking. What are your reads at the moment iamperfection? Still want to lynch thrawn?

I'll be heading out again, but be back before I sleep. Laters!

On September 28 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote:
I think thrawn is town, no way scum would let him go like this.

On September 29 2012 00:24 ShiaoPi wrote:
Anybody here?

On September 29 2012 05:47 austinmcc wrote:

Anyone that's not one of us three fine fellow OR BLAZINGHAND around?

On September 29 2012 05:57 austinmcc wrote:

Thoughts on phagga? Those would be the pressing ones.

Followed by:

On September 29 2012 21:56 phagga wrote:


At that quoted point I was not thinking much anymore. My decision to hammer thrawn was already made earlier.

Let's go back 15 hours. On Friday morning I read the thread with the new various posts of ottoxlol. I had seen one of his defenses following my case the night before, now there even more. I came to the conclusion that he probably was not scum, and decided to take my vote from him in the next possible. At the same time, i got suspicious of Thrawn. However, I had a busy workday and found almost no time to read through filters and make a post.

At lunch I made my unvote post (unvoted ottoxlol). I continued reading through thrawns stuff, looked at in context of the thread, made notes and prepared a post. At some Point ShiaoPi called me out and then voted me. However, I did not want to throw an unfinished post out there so I just kept ignoring it for the time being and worked on my case.

Now, my biggest problem was that I was unsure how to deal with the situation. I wanted to hear more of thrawn, but feared he might get hammered shortly if i voted him (3 were voting him at the time). When I was pondering what to do, snb voted him, increasing the vote count to 4, and then I knew what to do. I posted my case and gave him until deadline -1 to show up in the thread and talk about the cases that came up. At that point I was unsure how the day would end. I was willing to hammer thrawn if necessary, but would have agreed with a no-lynch if he made a good defense.

bluelightz voted for me, but I needed to go home to my family, so I posted some stuff from my mobile on the train, trying to discuss the various accusations against me.

Later in the thread, thrawn comes in, resignated. Now, I just want to make one thing clear: Had thrawn not shown up at pretty much the last minute, I would have hammered him there already. However, when he arrived, I wanted to give him the chance to prove his innocence. His posts show that he either has not read the whole thread or completely disagrees with some stuff I wrote. I keep having a scummy read on him.

Now the situation starts to change. Austin increases the pressure on me and encourages thrawn to read my filter and vote on me, if approriate. Thrawn votes, I'm 1 vote away from getting hammered. At this point I realize that a no-lynch is the worst option. Why?

Normally a nolynch is a good option if town can not agree on a lynch target and spreads their votes over 3 or 4 targets, or if the primary lynch target turns out to be incredible townie at last moment. both was not the case here. Although I started getting my doubts about thrawn, I knew that if I did not hammer him, with the information available, I would regret letting him live the next day as he still looked scummy in my opinion. Also, we have two groups, one piling votes on me, the other piling votes on thrawn. With a nolynch, I feared we would be in the exact same situation next day, arguing about me and thrawn and not get anything else done. So about 30 minutes before deadline I decided to hammer him.

then it was just waiting to see if new information came available that might be useful later. This is why I waited until about 3 minutes before deadline to hammer him when I had the feeling nothing useful would come anymore.

I just want to make one thing absolutely clear. The case on thrawn did not come from one moment to the other. It built up in my mind over the whole day. However, I thought it was not important to let town know I was working on a possible case, so I never wrote anything about it. This is why my case was perceived as a drastic change of mind, while in reality the whole process lasted several hours. Why did I not inform you earlier? Well, I'm reading Vers analysis on Mafia XXX, and one thing that stands out is "keep town on a need to know basis". I thought town does not need to know I'm working on this case until it is finished. That was obviously wrong. Instead I let town know of other useless stuff in the beginning of the game (see bluelightz case on me). Looks like I still have to work on that one.

If you have questions, ask away. I don't know yet when I will be online again, weekends are family time and it is very unpredictable for me to say when I will be online again, but hopefully I will make to the start of the new day.

On September 29 2012 22:14 Ottoxlol wrote:
@austin



Then why didnt you unvote me? This post feels like you really don't care about it, but if we did you can point to this post later.

Also I feel like your vote on phagga stood out from everyone else's, I just can't grasp it what decided that you won't lynch thrawn, you had both pinned as scummy but as far as your posts go I see you having more problems with thrawn then phagga.
Could you tell me what made you decide that phagga is the better vote? And why didnt you push for phagga?

@iamperfection
You are here in the thread a lot, but doesnt participate in the discussion, why is that?

@Bluelightz
Who will you vote tomorrow? I feel like your case on phagga was one of the weakest and you did not seem interested in pushing for him or getting more from your other scumread Sinensis.

On September 30 2012 11:49 Sinensis wrote:
Okay I'm caught up. First thoughts: austinmcc would have been my lynch candidate today if scum hadn't whacked him last night. For one, I was convinced thrawn was scum and I was convinced austinmcc was his scum buddy and that's what this was about:



Well none of that matters now so I'm back at square one as far as reads go. For everyone's notepads: based on what I have read, I would not have changed my vote from thrawn even if I had been in the thread. He did a bad job making himself look like town.

---

@iamperfection: You didn't even mention my name day 1, now I'm at the top of your reads day 2 just because I had to go to work? What made you change your mind about phagga? You never said?

On September 30 2012 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
okay I am up again time to get things rolling.
GG austin

With austin's flip we have some more information regarding the setup.
If anyone has been roleblocked this night, claim please, like immediately.
The setups are already narrowed down to 2 of the possible ones, while it may be a bit futile to discuss too much setup, it helps to know the exact one. If there is no roleblock I think we can assume the boxer/doc setup.


Now towards the stuff I said just before.
Phagga has been looking better in my opinion because of his long explanatory posts. At first they looked incredibly out of character but as he seems to be consistent within them, I am kind of backing down a bit on him now.
Looking at the replacement thread it seems as if SnB is going to be replaced, as soon as the replacement is in game please give out reads and thoughts as soon as possible since SnB's lack of activity hurts the ability to read him.


@Sinensis:
You seriously would have attempted a lynch on austin today? Please give me some details in how you came to the read of a thrawn/austin-scumteam during day 1. What did you make of the fact that austin would have had to be bussing in order to make your read work.
I also want to get a damn good explanation how you go from this gem here: + Show Spoiler + towards your scumread on austin you just spewed out...here for reference again: + Show Spoiler +

Oh wait there is no explanation since you are scum, figures I guess. ##vote: Sinensis


@Iamperfection:
you say your best way to prove your innocence is to hunt scum. Then fucking do so instead of saying "wow those mia guys are bad --->scum".
I would be interested in why you think sinensis is scum, also flesh out your thoughts on SnB pleae instead of just saying he ain't around.

On September 29 2012 01:20 strongandbig wrote:
Okay so I retread Otto and thrawn's filters again.
I want to think otto is scum because I feel like "getting pissed because the case against you is bad or badly expressed" is usually a scum tell. Scum get mad because "they don't deserve to find me like that"
Townies get mad because "why won't they listen to me they're just being stubborn or having confirmation bias" but that usually only comes after they make a defense.
So fos for that on Otto.

But the thing is the rest of his filter doesn't feel scummy to me. He stuck with his suspicion of me but didn't over exaggerate it when I was posting weird and shitty stuff. And his stuff on the random lynch seemed retarded and purposely obtuse but when I retread it assuming he actually thought a random lynch meant "everyone randomize their vote" it is actually consistent.

In summary: Otto you need to post more and I don't like your reaction to pressure but at this point I don't want to lynch you.


So here's who I do want to lynch - thrawn.

This was the first time I read his filter all the way through, and I noticed two trends - lack of follow through and jumping reads. Look at his attacks on me and on Otto. He asks me about shiaopi and I just completely blow him off on account of not actually having read his post. But the thing is, he didn't push me on it except for a side comment at some point, because he'd moved on to Otto. Then he jumps to sinensis without actually explaining why his read on Otto changed, except that people were jumping off of Otto at that point.

So I think we should lunch thrawn.

I don't think we should no lynch. Unless I'm doing the math wrong, all that buys us is another no lunch. Yes that gives us extra time, but it also pretty much lets scum hand pick who is alive at lylo, it's not worth it.

So ##vote: thrawn2112

On September 30 2012 13:50 ShiaoPi wrote:
WHERE IS EVERYONE ELSE????

ugh...I hate my timezone for mafiagames.

On September 29 2012 22:14 Ottoxlol wrote:
@austin



Then why didnt you unvote me? This post feels like you really don't care about it, but if we did you can point to this post later.

Also I feel like your vote on phagga stood out from everyone else's, I just can't grasp it what decided that you won't lynch thrawn, you had both pinned as scummy but as far as your posts go I see you having more problems with thrawn then phagga.
Could you tell me what made you decide that phagga is the better vote? And why didnt you push for phagga?

@iamperfection
You are here in the thread a lot, but doesnt participate in the discussion, why is that?

@Bluelightz
Who will you vote tomorrow? I feel like your case on phagga was one of the weakest and you did not seem interested in pushing for him or getting more from your other scumread Sinensis.

On September 30 2012 22:35 strongandbig wrote:
Oh wait - discussion question - do we cut phagga some slack for the fact that it took so long for thrawn to get hammered? I feel like its very risky for scum to let one of their members get to l-1 like that and that if he was scum then thrawn would have been hammered sooner - unless both scum were already on thrawn.

On October 01 2012 06:40 Ottoxlol wrote:
i rly dont have time to read the whole thread atm, but if someone else counterclaim, lynch him or phagga first then the other, if no one that would make phagga confirmed town if I am right

On October 01 2012 22:13 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Sinensis:
I am making a huge deal out of the fact that what you posted day 1 and what you posted this day do not add up. It's clearly contradictory to say at first that the case on austin was only to get discussion and then to switch it around to have him as high scum read after he flips. It is a breakdown in logic. You have not left any hint of your suspicions on austin during day 1 and then he would have been a priority day 2?

Also in regards to austins switch. It was not having any effect in regards to the lynch. take a look at this votecount:



It was obvious that phagga would not get lynched. There is no reason for a hypothetical scum-austin to switch onto phagga since the hammervote would still remain with phagga and he would obviously not lynch himself. I saw the switch much more as an means to get more discussion going. From the moment where only austin and phagga had not voted it was clear that phagga was not going to die this cycle. It would have been incredibly stupid as a scum-austin to bank on the possibility of someone else than phagga switching his vote and go all-in in order to save a hypothetical scum-thrawn. I know that it is WIFOMy but still the point remains that the chance of phagga getting lynched at the point of the switch were close to 0.

Seeing you now questioning my motives seems funny to me, since I know I am town (herpa derpa). So no, my vote will not move for now.

Where the fuck is everyone else btw?
Can anyone give some more reads/thoughts out?

On October 01 2012 22:32 ShiaoPi wrote:
That's the point with those 3 they are basically all lurkers for the purposes of today. I already said that I think ottox looks townish to me (at least he did day 1) but his absence is annoying. bluelightz is more or less a null-read right now. There is not much to make off and I am trying to get some answers from him (see my last post) in order to get a read on him. I also already voiced some concern on SnB, but with the general inactivity-fest this has become he (sadly) does not stand out....

On October 01 2012 22:38 ShiaoPi wrote:
So you would be willing to let Sinensis go off the hook now?