EPTRockband Mini Mafia - Page 4
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Mementoss
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Oh I thought I read it was mafia/2 rounded up was kp. Well I think its safe to assume there is no SK. Unless mafia hit the SK last night and he was night immune and SK hit BH. | ||
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On September 18 2012 16:34 Ange777 wrote: Good morning guys!  Catching up now ...The smilely face opener, looking to look innocent, consistent with Ange777 scum meta. Probably won't make sense to any of you but I co-hosted Ange777 first game which she was scum and she opened similar, obviously she played a lot different otherwise cause didnt understand the game as much. Analysis here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332805¤tpage=27#539 The amount of people calling Ange777 town for effort in day 1 is ridiculous. You can put in as much effort as scum as town. And I don't see Ange really doing that much to be honest. Mostly all of her filter is questions. Asking questions is good, but town motivation for asking questions is to make a follow up read and assessment of the answer, scum motivation for asking questions is because 1) its easy 2) it shows your reading the thread and 3) you can incriminate other people with the proper use of a question. No point in me quoting it, but look through the filter, there is more questions than actual analysis or statements. So Ange is really just posting the questions without using the questions to further the analysis. Here is anges first display of scum hunting, the first attempt of the prphlz case: On September 19 2012 04:37 Ange777 wrote: @prplhz: Where is your scum hunting? You have failed to give a reason as for why you'd like to lynch me. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 01:08 prplhz wrote: I don't really know. Contrary to popular beliefs, being the centre of attention for a little while doesn't entail a plentitude of scum reads. I guess I want to kill Ange777 but I don't really know why. The day is young though. I'm curious about your austinmcc read I felt that this post was pretty townie it seems like he's putting some thought into the game about my alignment. What you think? You seem to be pretty sure of him being scum and I was too until that post so I'm wondering what changed my mind but didn't change yours. You have shut down any discussion regarding Palmar's alignment. On September 19 2012 01:23 prplhz wrote: HiroPro we're not lynching Palmar on day1 on anything other than a scum claim end of story. I'm sure you can see why so find something else to do with your time. You have given another wonderful green townie list. On September 19 2012 02:16 prplhz wrote: Okay guys, I'm going to post a townie list! Green for emphasis! prplhz Blazinghand Palmar iamperfection Hapahauli Mementoss Gonna go read more filters. And you have successfully jumped on marv's bandwaggon. On September 19 2012 02:26 prplhz wrote: hapa too good ##Vote marvellosity Which by the way seems to be based on a ridiculous reason. He had his suspicions about Hiro because of the lack of content not because of suspicious content. So what's wrong with considering Hiro's statement? Instead of finding scum by yourself you have others do the work for you. That's scum motivation. ##Vote: prplhz 1st point is a soft form of OMGUS. You voted me? No explanation? Its not townie like, but no where angie explains why it makes him scum. 2nd point not wanting to lynch palmar day 1 is a pretty common opinion, but for some reason it makes prplhz scum. Again no explanation of scum motives. 3rd point townie list, no explanation why she thinks its scumm 4th point voting marv, no explanation why she thinks its scummy again. This is the only indication ange thinks prplhz is scum, Instead of finding scum by yourself you have others do the work for you. That's scum motivation. But its not really a thought out or extended explanation and again it was said by a lot of people earlier. So overall, she took a target who was already under heat and summed up what everyone in the thread already pointed out, but never explained why she thought it was scummy. Ange's second attempt at finding scum. But wait, its the same.... guy. What. She's basically shovelling the same shit over again. What is the point of doing this as town? Who are you trying to convince really? Prplhz was already the leader by 3 votes at this point, and you aren't bringing anything new to the table. The only motivation of doing this seems to me is scum motivation. Again, easy to fucking write up, trying to hard push the mislynch and no one will say anything because its the popular wagon atm, she doesn't want to have to make bad ties with anyone else this early in the game. Its fucking safe. She knows prplhz is going to get lynched, she doesn't want to make a case on someone else and stand out and possibly piss them off so they make another case on her. There is no reason to remake the case again on the leader of votes as town. There are 2-3 scum or a SK in this game, try hunting elsewhere, bring up new people. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote: [prplhz I still want to lynch prplhz. Despite his recent contributions (giving us his town reads and making a case on marv), I am convinced that he is scum. Yes, he has 2 pages of filter within 1 day cycle which is unlike his scum play in GSL Open. But let's have a closer look at the posts he has made in these 2 pages: Starting post fluff. Complains about people who try to give him information about mkfuba07. Sometimes we get to catch a glimpse of his "scum-hunting" or "prodding": After being called out by several players for his lack of contribution he defends himself: The defense in itself is perfectly fine but what lacks is again an effort in scum-hunting. This is the first time that prplhz comments on other players and gives us a read. While town reads are definitely useful in the process of elimination, a clear scum read is far more preferable and accurate. And yes, being the center of attention does not naturally leave you with tons of scum reads but there must be players which have acted suspiciously. Being up for a lynch yourself will always be an easier situation to judge the people making the cases on you as you know your alignment. Judging players accusing other players has 2 unknown quantities and therefore getting a good scum read out of it should be more difficult. Nice excuse for not reading the thread. Why wouldn't someone read the thread closely? Bullshit is not always just bullshit, it can have town motivation or scum motivation. Is it because you are scum and already know the alignments? There are a lot of useless posts in his filter like: Now let's get to the part where he actually decides to contribute by making cases: So here we have his explanation on why he wants to lynch marv. Basically I see 3 points: 1) Marv promised more thinky posts while posting less in general. But while he definitely has been a more lurky marv than usual he has not fulfilled his promise for thinky posts. While I have to agree that we have not seen much of the new thinky-style marv, it's not like he wasn't to be seen at all. This is a well written and unlike the usual one-liner marv post with a lot of thinking. Yes, there haven't been other posts like this one following it up but soon afterwards was the Palmar/Marv war, it's only reasonable to assume that during a heated discussion you won't write text-wall posts. I am still hoping for the thinky-marv to pop up again now that he seems to have calmed down again but for now, I can't take this argument as a scum indicator. If this continues to go on after day 1 I will reconsider this point again but not now. prplhz' other arguments for scum marv: 2) Town marv would never be convinced by HiroPro's argument. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 01:11 HiroPro wrote: Look at goodkarma's posts and what I've already said about him. Look at the voting in the thread. We have like 6 or 7 candidates each with one vote. That's a recipe for town disaster. And then look at what Palmar comes in and does - he throws three completely new candidates into the mix and doesn't give any real reason for them being scum. He's not trying to actually lead town onto a successful lynch, he's just trying to cause chaos. Why not? I don't like Palmar's style of just giving away all his reads without any single explanation other than to take his word for it. (But apparentely no one else is annoyed by this fact besides me.) I am perfectly fine with discussing new lynch targets but I need to know why someone proposes them to be lynched. 3) The OMGUS vote was due to scum marv being caught. I really dislike OMGUS votes. Because they can be basically everything from town motivated to scum motivated or just plain stupid. And the other problem is you usually can't prove it, the OMGUS voter can simply hide behind the OMGUS motivation. Yes, the OMGUS vote makes marv scummy but it is not enough to convince me into lynching him. This following part makes me really wonder why people are not suspicious of prplhz: So when is it "later"? How do you want to convince us into lynching your allegedly top scum read when you yourself have reservations you are not willing to share with us? prplhz' two pages filter contains a lot of fluff and useless stuff. He has not made much effort in scum-hunting, just some occasionally prodding. He gives himself excuses for not reading the thread closely. His case on marv is really weak. And he is already back-paddling from said case. Scum. I will probably check Palmar's filter once more later, furthermore I want to know where the lurkers like austin, Bluelightz, mkfuba07 and HiroPro have gone. Stop lurking and get in the game. I could go over each point again but read this case and tell me it seems like ange is trying hard to find scum or just pulling posts out of the filter and making commentary. Honestly if you spun this exact case the right way, it could be made against half the people in the game. Its not about scum motivation or scummy behaviour again, its based on what ange sees as non town like behaviour, or I wouldnt play like this as town behaviour. Pointing out things like fluff and town reads is all find and dandy, but why does it make him scum. "I agree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him." I found this pretty ironic, as 75% of anges filter is questions, and barely any are used to be analysed or actually assessed. They are just for the sake of being active and being townie. Town usually has a purpose in their mind behind the questions, scum already knows the answers and questions for them are just to look townie. On September 20 2012 04:39 Ange777 wrote: Can someone please link me to the latest case against austin? If I remember correctly marv started the case but retracted part of it due to the recent improved posting of austin. This is pretty ironic as well, as anges whole case on prplhz is that he is too lazy to hunt scum himself and is trying to get people to do the work for him. On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote: Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin. SNIP Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post? Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum. This defense on austin is very weird and stuck out to me as soon as I read it. Just because you get more active, doesn't eliminate the fact that you have a post that was scummy. The fact that he posted a poor explanation to start can't make him more townie, it means he wasn't being honest and writing from his mind. He was writing to prove his innocence rather than just state what he was doing. If he couldn't do it the first time it means he had to actively think about his defense, something a town player posting openly wouldn't do. The fact that I think austinmcc is still scummy isn't helping out ange at all. This poor logic and jumble of words defending austin is really scummy to me. It feels forced. Marv also pointed this out and anges second explanation is just as logically flawed as the first. On September 20 2012 05:40 Ange777 wrote: @iamperfectino: What's this? @marv: My point is that giving a weak explanation fits a town player who should not be scared of being accused as scum. Being town there is no need to write your posts carefully which could lead to a weak first explanation before a satisfying second one. I see your point of view but I don't agree with it. On September 20 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote: Why are you ninja voting iamperfection??? Only scum would say this. Solely Trying to incriminate iamprefection with the question, when the answer was fucking obvious to anyone and everyone. The conflicting claims when one of them was obviously fake. And it wasn't a ninja vote since there is no voting thread and it was in plain sight. Then there is the trying so hard to be emotional and surprised. Like honestly most of us were surprised, but ange is letting everyone KNOW how surprised she was. Why is this? Cause she already knew the result beforehand. On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote: Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote: Seriously? On September 20 2012 06:04 Ange777 wrote: Claiming mason is so easy and you really waited till the last few minutes to do it? On September 20 2012 06:44 Ange777 wrote: I'll read fuba tomorrow. Off to bed now. This isn't much but I think it was obvious that ange77 was going to make another case on the easy player, fuba. Most liekly mashing everything that was already mentioned in the thread all in one neat quote post. CONTRIIBUTINGGG. On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote: Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. Finally people are starting to take a closer look at palmar? What is this. People were mentioning palmars posts for a good part of day 1. This sentence is just trying to make yourself look good for mentioning you were "suspecting" palmar at one point. Ange saying there is no town motivation for iamperfections play is just ridiculous and its actually the opposite. Ange is trying to incriminate him and put together a case against someone she doesn't find dangerous. Someone that won't come back and call her out. Someone that won't attempt to call her on her shit. Town motivation for switching votes, you thought the claim was fake and ridiculous so you changed your vote to who you thought was scum. Any reasonable town in the thread WOULD make this switch. Scum motivation for making this switch? There is none, why would scum want to last minute switch onto a townie? Why would scum want to out themselves by doing this? He could have easily pretended not to be in the thread. TLDR; 1) People calling ange town for effort and contributing, when ange was never in danger, no reason for this. 2) Ange looks like contributing, but actually just 2 cases on the case that was already made, by people in the thread, actually just asking a ton of questions without a purpose behind the questions 3) Cases don't provide reason why actions are scummy. Seems to be targetting the easiest players, the players that won't come back at her and call her scum, prplhz, >mkfuba > iamperfection. 4) Flawed logic towards austinmcc and iamperfection, to try and paint their alignment the way she wants. Austinmcc defense that makes no sense, Aggressive on iamperfection for voting a scummy action and saying its scum motivation when in no way it is. 5) The smiley face opener 6) Go read you lazy fucker Ange777 the secret it out you are scum ##Vote:Ange777 I also think Austinmcc is still scum, more thoughts on that later hopefully. | ||
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##Vote: Ange777 | ||
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On September 21 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote: As do I, although I will note that I find it interesting that you and marv are heavily discussing Bluelightz past play and his prplhz case (I agree that it feels like overkill). What i found most odd was the way he switched off mementoss for reasons entirely unrelated to his case. I'm a big fan of multiple players having different reasoning and both arriving on scummy, although I'm still more at concerned about bluelightz than outright scummy. I do wish he'd make good on his requests for questions and actually answer them. As to ange, one level deeper down the rabbit hole is "Ange was around those couple minutes at deadline but not posting in thread because she was busy in scum QT jumping up and down at lucking out and hitting a mason." If we flip her, and she flips scum, it's an interesting time period to look around for absences, although she pops out because of her questioning and then disappearance more than the absence itself. I'd be interested in Palmar's thoughts on ange. She was in prplhz's "scummy" range, along with hiropro, who seems to be palmar's lynch preference for today. Palmar was that one of prplhz's reads you were alright with? If so, do you want to share reasoning? Austinmcc doing ange777 the favour with the soft defense here. A bunch of fluff with such a weird way of talking about ange, no solid view on her at all. Waiting for palmars thoughts on her before he gives his own. God damn your scum. Also, trying to bring back up the bluelightz discussion as soon as ange777 votes come and someone asks his feelings on her, deflection much? Give us a solid fucking read with your answers unless your scum, then keep playing this way. | ||
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On September 21 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote: I'm still going through this all myself, but Mementoss: whether Ange flips scum or not, I found the fact that austin went back to examine the actually happenings right around the lynch as quite a townie thing to do. Scum look for dirt and do work etc but only town want to work out exactly the reactions on the lynch. What do you tihnk about this? I haven't completely looked through his filter, but the way I generally do this is, I get a gut feeling, then I check the out the filter to see if it matches my thoughts. I gotta go over it when I have time. There is so much shit in there I dont think 1 town looking post will make him seem town but we will see. | ||
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On September 21 2012 00:21 Blazinghand wrote: Day 2 will INCLUDE a marv vs palmar fight. | ||
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Enough excuses I actually want to hear your opinion on why Ange would be a bad lynch/ why you think she is town. Obviously when she gets back her response will give us more insight and information. Who would be your second best scum read after Marv? HiroPro? What is your evidence/thoughts against Hiropro | ||
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Filters (pages): Marv 11 Hapa 8 BH 7 Me +everyone else <= 4 Looking through his filter, a lot of it is just unnecessary. The only people I can really trust right now in this game is myself and Hapa. Hapa when you come back I would like a detailed explanation on your thoughts of Marv vs Palmar situation. | ||
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Marv is responsible for approximately 25% of the thread. 0.0 | ||
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On September 22 2012 00:27 austinmcc wrote: I don't know if you're trying to or not, but this keeps clogging up the thread. The majority of his posts have not included reasoning. You've got a lot of posts calling him out on that. We see the lack of reasoning; you can stop. Nobody is sitting in thread saying Palmar has done a great job of letting us see where he's getting his calls from. Nobody is sheeping his reads either. I still don't know what to make of Palmar, but 10 more discussions of how he's not giving full-throated reads isn't going to do anything for anyone. Moreover, some of those reads DO have reasoning, but earlier in thread - I know iam was covered in his first reads, I believe he may have given reasoning for hiro at some point (not entirely sure there). There's no NEED for reasoning on hapa, and little need for anything on mementoss. I agree with austin, and I've already somewhat mentioned it or implied it to Marv in the thread. If palmar posts in this game you can guarentee a one liner from marv right after. Its ironic because those one liners are even less useful than what palmar is posting, they only can stir up shit and clog up the thread. Everyone can read marv, those one liners aren't going to convince anyone that doesn't think palmar is scum to think think he is. I don't know how you don't understand this concept. | ||
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Marv vs Palmar | ||
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On September 21 2012 05:59 Blazinghand wrote: Bluelightz isn't scummy, he's Bluelightz. If you attack him, be prepared for non-responsiveness and random shitty defense posts at the last minute, whether he's town or scum. Iamperfection is active and aggressive enough that I no longer consider him a top scumread. I've seen him play poorly before as town so this is reasonable to say. My current list of people I'll be pressuring going into D1 if I'm alive (which I probably will be, unless something weird happens): HiroPro Mkfuba07 Ange777 Palmar The first two because they're scum, the second two because they should be good scumhunters, better than they are this game Also marv like ange and plam peace Here is one of the last things BH said. Not the most revealing but I will put it here as a reminder. | ||
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On September 22 2012 02:46 Hapahauli wrote: In fact, I'm really surprised no one has been bringing up posts by Ange on the subject of Palmar. There's much more, but the point is, Ange has been passively throwing suspicion at Palmar all game. She has constantly been doing this. If you think Ange is scum, it's incredibly unlikely that Palmar is scum. Scumbuddies just don't do this to each other. I would disagree, I think if anything this makes it more likely that ange and palmar would be scum together. Ange has been throwing suspicion at Palmar all game, without doing a fucking thing a bout it. Thats a main point of my case on her, appearing useful through these points and questions, but really not having a purpose behind any of them, is scum motivation. They don't need a purpose they have the answers. Can you honestly say that these things ange said affected Palmar in any way whatsoever>? | ||
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What would scum motivation be for Palmar giving his town read on me and explaining it (to an extent) in day 1/night 1. I was probably the 3rd most likely to be lynched day 1, and I was probably a major point of discussion day 2 as a lynch possibility, mainly through the thoughts of Austinmcc and Hapa (Possibly ange). | ||
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On September 22 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote: if you don't want to listen to me, listen to syllogism How is this out of context quote relevant to anything lol, its someones opinion on meta. | ||
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On September 07 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote: I will tell you why your post was not formed in the manner of the most intelligent, prplhz, my good sir. Scum marvellosity sees something dodgy that Risen has written, and aggressively pursues scum Risen for it. He won't let it go and in fact makes scum Risen look worse and worse with each passing post. Having made scum Risen look awful to the thread, to the point where everyone is piling on to him, scum marvellosity decides to remove any credit he might have for the flip by unvoting him without much reason. Therefore scum marvellosity's masterplan is to get scum Risen lynched completely unnecessarily and give himself no credit for it. scum marvellosity is a fucking genius. Replace Risen with Palmar and apply the bolded parts for Day1/Night1 and Day 2? Does this sound right to you? | ||
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