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Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:23 GMT
#416
@ Node - Don't vote BM24, no one's going to vote for him but you and an afk Marv. Your vote is useless where it is. What do you think about my suspicions about HiroPro?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=21#401
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:24 GMT
#418
##Vote HiroPro
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:24 GMT
#420
Err shit.

##Unvote Palmar
##Vote HiroPro
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:25 GMT
#421
On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour.

Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process.

  • He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
  • What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
  • He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.


Thoughts?


That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him.


That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds.


That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day.


Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:30 GMT
#426
On September 01 2012 09:26 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour.

Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process.

  • He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
  • What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
  • He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.


Thoughts?


That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him.


That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds.


That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day.


Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.

Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer?


The thing is that it's a very unlikely "thought process" for a townie. Think about it. You make a major case against MMtoss, get 3 people to vote with you, mention nothing about it until someone calls you out for it, then all of a sudden, one magical answer solves all your suspicions? Keep in mind that HiroPro was convinced that MMtoss was scum:

Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum.


There's no way a townie would drop a read that quickly. Maybe a question or two, THEN dropping the read, but not right away.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:39 GMT
#431
I mean christ look at HiroPro's play up until now:



Before his "Case" against MMToss, he has 8 one-liner posts. He talks about abstaining voters, soft-defends me against SnB, and posts that Hopless1der is "nervous" without ever following up on it.

He then posts his "Case", and sounds confident in his read. He only has two posts before I confront him about his read: a soft defense of SnB and a little poke on MMToss, mentioning that he'll take a look at Shady's filter.

I confront him about his case and MMToss's post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=15#291
Read from this point on. Look how quickly he gives up his read.

He then posts a bunch of one-liners without making reads


a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:43 GMT
#432
Keep in mind that HiroPro has not made a read or even casted a suspicion since his case against MMToss.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:46 GMT
#433
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:48 GMT
#436
@ Hopeless - what about this do you disagree with?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=22#431

I couldn't have lined it out any better.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:52 GMT
#439
On September 01 2012 09:49 Node wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:23 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Node - Don't vote BM24, no one's going to vote for him but you and an afk Marv. Your vote is useless where it is. What do you think about my suspicions about HiroPro?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=21#401


I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case:

I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now.


There are 2 votes on HiroPro. Don't pull this shit about "5 person voteswing" or whatever - you're being misleading.

And MM is not safe. He has 3 votes on him. Are you even reading the thread?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:54 GMT
#441
On September 01 2012 09:49 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:35 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:29 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Your whole "case" literally boils down to the fact that he changed his vote after the person he pressured defended himself, which is basically what you did, putting suspicion on MMToss then retracting it when he defended himself, except you were satisfied even quicker than he was so i really don't understand why people are changing votes at all

since when is it scummy anyway to change your mind

"too easy" is meaningless what does that even mean

it's not like MMtoss defense was so stellar he couldn't have continued pushing him if it was really his scum agenda


Except Hapa never formalized his PoV on mementoss into a case or laid a vote on him. He just agreed with someone's read on Mementoss, and that's it. That's a heck of a lot weaker than making a 400 word post on him and voting.


BUt I thought the main criticism of HiroPro other than that was that his case was a summation of Hapahauli's suspicions of mementoss? Hapahauli told me himself that after reading his defense he thought MMtoss was town for that. But if HiroPro comes to the same conclusion that makes him scum? don't be stupid.


Grawww you're not reading again!!!! I thought MMtoss was town for this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=13#258

HiroPro still thought MMtoss was scummy after that post. He magically dropped his read after this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=15#293
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:55 GMT
#443
He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read!
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 00:57 GMT
#444
But if that's not going to convince you BM24, what about the other stuff? The one liners, the soft defenses, the soft-pressure against Hopeless w/out ever following it up, the lack of content, and the lack of an active scumread at this stage in the day!
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:04 GMT
#448
On September 01 2012 09:59 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:55 Hapahauli wrote:
He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read!

That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker?

He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that...


You actually buy that?

Do you think like that as a townie? Clearly not, or you would've accepted the first defense that SnB posted against you insteantly. You don't see it as strange that Hiro doesn't pressure him any more than that after posting his case? Like he insta-dropped his suspicions man.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:05 GMT
#449
On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.


Goddamnit townies don't think like that! Townies don't insta-drop cases like that!
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:13 GMT
#451
The argument presented was that HiroPro accepted MMToss's "defense" to his case (defense posted below).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=15#293

As far as I know, that's it. HiroPro accepted it, and for some reason, you and BM24 accept it at face value. However, let me tell you why this is very unlikely:

1) HiroPro went from extreme suspicion (note the wording, "MMtoss is scum"), to a dropped suspicion in one post.
2) HiroPro still should have reason to suspect MMtoss, even after MMtoss defends himself. People still fnd MMtoss suspicious, yet for some reason, HiroPro accepted the magical answer?
3) HiroPro is happy to poke and prod random townies, but barely makes an attempt to question MMtoss, who is Hiro's main scumread.

I could go on, but what more do you need here? I hope you don't actually buy Hiro's excuse.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:15 GMT
#453
Like shit, Hiro STILL isn't making an effort to scumhunt with 1 hour to the deadline. You could lynch him JUST on that!
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:15 GMT
#454
On September 01 2012 10:15 HiroPro wrote:
ARE YOU FUCKING READING ANYTHING I POST

Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:37 HiroPro wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour.

Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process.

  • He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
  • What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
  • He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.


Thoughts?


That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him.


That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds.


That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day.


Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.


Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react.").


Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 09:47 HiroPro wrote:
On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really?


Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.



I am, and I'm posting why I think you're full of shit.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:17 GMT
#456
On September 01 2012 10:16 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.


No, I don't have any strong scum reads at this point. Risen looks weird to me because he made a case on Shady and then proceeded to go lynch Palmar because he's a troll. But it's not something I'd vote him for.


LOOK AT THIS!!

He's not scumhunting! *********************************
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 01 2012 01:20 GMT
#458
I could not lay it out for you any clearer.

Here's a guy who has no active scumreads... hey remember who also had no active scumreads as mafia @ lynch deadline? That's right, you did in Newbie XX.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
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