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On September 02 2012 05:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 05:19 strongandbig wrote:
nah man
if i was scum i would have had someone proofread that giant claim post and they would've been "what's with this part that's stupid, either say the whole thing or just say you always turn up scum" can you actually address the multiple inconsistencies pointed out especially by hiro??
I mean, I did lie in that first post. Alls I can say is what I already said.
On September 02 2012 00:34 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:18 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2012 00:14 Mementoss wrote:On September 02 2012 00:01 HiroPro wrote:PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all. Yea I don't believe you. Im a bit lost, about this suspicious detective thing. Why don't you believe him can you give some clarification? Second, look at what s&b wrote. When he first claimed self-aware miller, he said that he didn't know what circumstances would cause him to return as suspicious or normal (he talked about how certain people's checks may be reliable, certain may not). However, now he's claiming that his role PM told him that he'll return suspicious when there are less than half the players remaining in this game. Yeah, I didn't explain that in my miller claim post. I was kind of confused about it myself, and I wanted to make the situation clearer; I also didn't think it was important, since for it to matter detectives would have to check me, and the whole point of telling everyone you're a miller is already putting yourself under the suspicion as if you had a detective check on you. I actually was going to just simplify it even more and tell everyone that I would always check as scum, but I ended up doing a ps at the end; I thought I should mention that I would sometimes check town because otherwise if a detective checked me too soon it could get very confusing (mixed-up sanities, assuming there are framers, etcetera).
I think that's the only actual inconsistency. It was a bad choice of me to post that in my first post. I wanted to make it clear that not all checks on me would return the same thing, and "L maybe has better DT powers than other DTs" seemed like the easiest way to say that.
I mean, what's the scum motivation for saying that? Wouldn't it be much easier as scum just to say "I always return scum to checks" because if I was scum, I would always return scum to checks? The only possible motivation for me to say that was exactly what my motivation was, to save town from wifoming itself if people actually did check me.
Other than that one point, as far as I can tell the whole case on me consists of "wtf there can't be different kinds of millers in the same game." Not much I can say about that, other than "well, there are, so deal with it."
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz where is mkfuba
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On September 02 2012 05:23 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 05:19 strongandbig wrote:
also if i was scum i would know who the scum are You'd think as town you would bring up a lynch target for today since there is only 7 hours till deadline ?
Town motivation is to find scum, with only a handful of hours left you haven't said one scum candidate today ?
Who do you think is scum
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also mementoss's case on ghost looks like the most decent case other than "there can't be more than one kind of miller" so
##vote: ghost_420
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
mementoss, anyone.
what do you think of the different types of miller (self-aware, aware)?
i'm going out again really soon so prompt responses are appreciated. I have 6 people round me wondering why i'm tippy-tappying on my laptop >.>
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On September 02 2012 05:56 strongandbig wrote:
also mementoss's case on ghost looks like the most decent case other than "there can't be more than one kind of miller" so
##vote: ghost_420
This should give anyone serious second thoughts on whether ghost is scum...
You lied man. It's day 2, discussion has been stagnant b/c all of day 2 has been taken up by this. I wish HiroPro had waited to post that until at least half the day was gone. We could have gotten some serious discussion to take place and that would give us a lot more to look at.
Now we're going to have to case I post on HiroPro right before deadline and the case against ghost, which is invalid in my mind if sab flips red. There's not that many connections left where scum could be hiding if sab turns out to be town (and if he's scum we get breathing room b/c people are dying way faster than I expected in this game)
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On September 02 2012 06:01 marvellosity wrote:
mementoss, anyone.
what do you think of the different types of miller (self-aware, aware)?
i'm going out again really soon so prompt responses are appreciated. I have 6 people round me wondering why i'm tippy-tappying on my laptop >.>
Is it a possibility? Sure. Would have been made a million times easier had Palmar not trolled and claimed in thread before dying, but whatever.
As it stands, I don't think the odds are high enough and setup speculation isn't exactly going to save sab. We can discuss this after his lynch.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
no, we discuss it before the lynch, that's the entire fucking point.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
also, this deadline is shit.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
24 hour days where euros can't participate. bleh.
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On September 02 2012 06:01 marvellosity wrote:
mementoss, anyone.
what do you think of the different types of miller (self-aware, aware)?
i'm going out again really soon so prompt responses are appreciated. I have 6 people round me wondering why i'm tippy-tappying on my laptop >.>
Im also out for the rest of the night too, please keep the discussion up, if SnB dies and the discussion stays this dead it will be a huge waste of a whole day. Basically I feel like the whole case on SnB is based on the above. Im not the host how would I know anything about the roles? I just find lynching on wifom game setup is a gamble. Even though SnB lieing seems like really scummy, he has a point, "why would he claim he can be checked as town or scum on a check" if he was scum wouldn't he just say he can only be checked as scum?
Anyways I'm actually on my way out the door so keep it active. And don't waste the whole day dwelling on the above. Look into the rest of SnB's filter to find out more for yourself if you think he is scum.
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Posting this really quick in the hopes that MMToss will be able to read it before he leaves. I always think over my posts too long before posting, and this shit happens.
@Mementoss:
What would you have said if ghost didn't say anything today except "I've got stuff to do so I won't be here today. I vote snb for <insert reasons here>."? I understand that these are two extremes, but ghost mentioned before that he was going to be afk most of Saturday, and as I see it what he's done is the best way for him to contribute if he can only be here shortly. He's given us what insight he can from the first day or so, and at the very least this gives us a lot of information to hold him to when he returns. If he decides to launch an attack on marv because of a potential SnB mislynch, he'll have to explain how he went from a slight town read to a scum read.
I feel like I know more about him than I know about you. Your first case against Shady was dropped, apparently, simply because he agreed with you about ghost. What are your current thoughts on Shady? You seemed pretty sure about his scumminess before, but a similar shared read on a third party was able to sway your view that much?
Shady is looking scummier to me. He seems particularly adamant about looking at bandwagoners, but said nothing about those who bandwagoned onto Palmar. That was the most suspicious case, as there was very little reasoning behind it and the target has actually flipped town. Who has he accused? The MMToss bandwagon: ghost, Palmar(town), BMB (town), mkfuba(town, but don't take my word for it), and HiroPro. He went so far as to say that the three of us who are still alive are a scumteam based on this unflipped bandwagon. He was so sure of our guilt when our target hasn't flipped yet, but shows no suspicion towards those on the Palmar bandwagon, a far more suspicious case. He then skips right over that bandwagon and accuses those who are voting for SnB despite there being an extremely viable reason for voting for him. It's true that both HiroPro and ghost_403 have voted for SnB, and they appear to have been his greatest suspicions D1. However, he completely ignores the ridiculous bandwagon on Palmar, who we actually know was a mislynch. There were reasons to vote for MMToss. There are reasons to vote for SnB. There were practically no reasons to vote for Palmar, and this is the bandwagon he ignores in his hunting.
##Vote Shady Sands
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On September 02 2012 06:05 marvellosity wrote:
no, we discuss it before the lynch, that's the entire fucking point.
I just discussed it. There's really nothing else to be said........
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
that's because you're bad risen. anyone else??
mementoss said what i thought about the roles: "Im not the host how would I know anything about the roles?" is it reasonable there's different types of millers?
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On September 02 2012 06:17 marvellosity wrote:
that's because you're bad risen. anyone else??
mementoss said what i thought about the roles: "Im not the host how would I know anything about the roles?" is it reasonable there's different types of millers?
Yes it's reasonable. It's even relevant, but at this point sab is the lynch b/c of his actions. It's not that he lied, it's not that he was inconsistent, it's that he did both.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
fuba, why do you talk so much and yet i find no definitive explanation on s&b?
???
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i just can't get over the lie in the first place.
it comes down to this as far as i'm concerned:
1) s&b's defence as scum - why would i lie in the first place?
2) s&b lied, with obvious scum motivations behind it.
I've said so in this game, but 1) isn't a defence. why would scum be scummy? ...
As townie, there is no reason to ever withold information or lie about anything. And on such an important issue. No, he's a scum who got caught in his own lie.
I'm going out. But to anyone who is unsure please think about this post and vote s&b.
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It's true, when I woke I was still set on going through MMToss's filter, and Shady's repeat of his bandwagon suspicions made me suspicious in turn. I would have included my thoughts on SnB in the previous post, but as I hastily explained, I took too long thinking about MMToss and Shady and wanted to try to let MMToss respond before leaving.
Regarding SnB, I don't believe there's two different kinds of millers. I'm more inclined to believe he is a traitor of some sort (from what I understand of traitors). SnB showed evidence of having different insight into the workings of how his supposed miller role worked than one would gain from the role PM that we saw from Palmar the Suspicious Detective.
I think he's scum.
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After reading through the thread, here are my thoughts.
On SnB: I would suggest the cop check him. Hunting someone off a single claim like that as opposed to actual scummy behavior is a null tell, in my opinion, especially given that this game has rules so different from a normal mafia game. Heck, I'm not even sure about how the whole "suspicious detective" and "right arm detective" mechanic is supposed to work. It could be entirely possible that SnB got a different miller subtype than what Palmar got, or that Palmar was a traitor and not a miller, or he was a townie that was set up by a Mafia Framer with delayed flip.
On Ghost: I'm glad to see a consensus forming around Ghost. His behavior today has been highly suspicious:
On September 02 2012 00:23 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey guys!
What's going on in this thread!
Today is crazy for me, so I'm going to be making one post today, and that's it.
Thoughts on NKs: I'm thinking Hapa was a town KP due to the flavor, and BMB was the scum KP. Knowing this is not particularly enlightening. I don't put any more faith in BMB's reads (or any less in Hapa's) because of this. Obviously, BMB was killed because he was acting very town. Look through his filter and use it as a town biased viewpoint. Don't ignore what dead townies have to say.
I can't believe the town let Palmar be lynched Day 1. Sure, he was useless, but seriously?
Town reads: MrZentor (unfortunately), Shady Sands (double unfortunately) and Node (WTF?????). Check out Node's previous games. In Hammer, he did basically the same thing, where he contributed next to nothing throughout all of Day 1, and he rolled Vig in that game. In this game, he was gone for most of the day, but when he came back he was opinionated and aggressive. Lurking scum would be much more apologetic.
Zentor, start using your head. And Shady, read the fucking thread.
Scum: MMToss, Risen, and S+B. I'm not convinced that's the scum team by any stretch, but those are the people in the thread I think are acting scummy. (Side note: I have no idea how many scum there are in this game at all. I'm assuming there is a team?) MMToss is a carry over from yesterday. No part of how the day played out makes me change my opinion on him. S+B, I'll comment on that at the end (new stuff in thread between when I started writing and finished writing).
As far as Risen, Node is right. We have to hold him accountable for his part in the Palmar lynch. As town, Risen is aggressive and abrasive. As scum, Risen worships chaos (See TLM LIII). This is looking a lot more like scum Risen. Pressure him today and watch what happens.
Null reads: Hiro (leaning town), Marv (leaning town), mkfuba (leaning newbie town), and hopeless1der (leaning scum). I don't have enough to really read any of these players. pre-edit: marv's interactions now with S+B are pushing me to place him more in the town category than the scum category. If S+B flips town, he goes down to scum.
Looks like S+B probably fakeclaimed miller. Ballsy play on his part. This pushes Hiro to town read, and confirms what I suspected on S+B.
##vote strongandbig
And now, I'm off! Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone.
This is all he posts. He sorts everyone into reads, then just states that he believe S&B fakeclaimed and therefore he votes. Again, a vote without justification.
Two days in a row.
He also tells town to pressure Risen over the Palmar lynch, which looks to me like scum trying to set town up for a second mislynch after stumbling on D1. Why not blame yourself, Ghost, for offering no independent analysis on why you voted MMToss?
Ghost seems intent on playing a very tight game where he offers as little of his own analysis on the people he votes for as possible. While not foolproof, this is the strongest scumtell I see in the thread. Therefore I am going to say that he's scum.
## Vote Ghost_403
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ebwop formatting
## Unvote
## Vote Ghost_403
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EPT
