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On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else.
Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie.
You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim:
On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.
However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.
So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p
So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone.
1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well
2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself.
The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning.
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On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:10 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie. You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim: On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.
However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.
So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone. 1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well 2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself. The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning. acting confident in the thread as mafia and shooting the guy in the balls who claims to have a bomb on you are two very different things. Again, yes I'm a bold mafia player in general but that? Risking everything when I'm totally fine (assuming I'm mafia) with just shooting someone else who did not claim to have a bomb on me?You now know that Z-Boson is town because he flipped town but you think anyone would have considered lynching me after his post? Even if both Boson and I survived I wouldn't even look bad because of that so there's not a single reason for me to take that gamble that could possibly lose my team (still assuming I'm mafia) the game just on the whim that I'm thinking the guy is fakeclaiming. There's just no reason to shoot Boson from a mafia perspective if I am mafia. Not a single one that isn't overshadowed by massive drawbacks even if I considered it to be a fakeclaim while there is a shitton of reasoning for shooting Boson if I'm town. Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place.
The bolded part is pretty hilarious consider this:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046
You and VE started bussing eachother very early when you were both looking pretty fine. Highly risky play is it not?
I'll drop it for the moment, but I think its important for people to know. For now I would like to get some good stuff out of you. Whats the best lynch for today and why, and do you have any other strong scum reads or cases to present?
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On September 14 2012 05:26 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:58 grush57 wrote:On September 14 2012 04:32 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 04:27 grush57 wrote:
Nice find there sloosh.
##Vote: Maverick32x
Also you guys don't get how BM plays. Why you voting Mav, its already been acknowledged that the problem of this game are posts exactly like this one. What do you think about slooshs find; Does it means SnB is scum or what If you could explain how BM plays that would be nice. The sloosh post I'm talking about is about Maverick. BM does one liners regardless and makes jokes in half his posts, just how he plays you guys aren't going to get anywhere calling that scummy  You still didn't answer the question. How does that make Mav scum? Also, look at Grav, and tell me you don't see a scum. Today is for Grav. Tomorrow is for MMToss or maybe Mav, once I finish reading his filter. I am not switching my vote to anyone but Grav, and I hope everyone here understands that and can show this scumbastard the noose.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ lets decide the lynch for tomorrow, cause thats helpful and creates discussion >_>
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On September 14 2012 05:36 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:10 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie. You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim: On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.
However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.
So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone. 1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well 2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself. The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning. acting confident in the thread as mafia and shooting the guy in the balls who claims to have a bomb on you are two very different things. Again, yes I'm a bold mafia player in general but that? Risking everything when I'm totally fine (assuming I'm mafia) with just shooting someone else who did not claim to have a bomb on me? You now know that Z-Boson is town because he flipped town but you think anyone would have considered lynching me after his post? Even if both Boson and I survived I wouldn't even look bad because of that so there's not a single reason for me to take that gamble that could possibly lose my team (still assuming I'm mafia) the game just on the whim that I'm thinking the guy is fakeclaiming. There's just no reason to shoot Boson from a mafia perspective if I am mafia. Not a single one that isn't overshadowed by massive drawbacks even if I considered it to be a fakeclaim while there is a shitton of reasoning for shooting Boson if I'm town. Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place. I think MMT's continual harping on this subject is what he's using to substitute for actual scumhunting. He knows no one is going to ever lynch you, so his mislynching efforts will never see the light of day. That being said though, I think it's better that he dies tomorrow. Today is a day for Gravan. What do you think about him?
wat? I guess trying to kill scumaverick isnt considered scum hunting. I think im harping on the subject because people are sheeping so hard this game and refuse to do any thinking for themselves. I'm just bringing out the facts that thinking toad is town because of that could very well be getting blindsided.
Also, wtf another set-up for the mislynch tomorrow.
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On September 14 2012 06:17 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 05:57 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 05:36 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:10 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie. You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim: On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.
However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.
So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone. 1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well 2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself. The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning. acting confident in the thread as mafia and shooting the guy in the balls who claims to have a bomb on you are two very different things. Again, yes I'm a bold mafia player in general but that? Risking everything when I'm totally fine (assuming I'm mafia) with just shooting someone else who did not claim to have a bomb on me? You now know that Z-Boson is town because he flipped town but you think anyone would have considered lynching me after his post? Even if both Boson and I survived I wouldn't even look bad because of that so there's not a single reason for me to take that gamble that could possibly lose my team (still assuming I'm mafia) the game just on the whim that I'm thinking the guy is fakeclaiming. There's just no reason to shoot Boson from a mafia perspective if I am mafia. Not a single one that isn't overshadowed by massive drawbacks even if I considered it to be a fakeclaim while there is a shitton of reasoning for shooting Boson if I'm town. Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place. I think MMT's continual harping on this subject is what he's using to substitute for actual scumhunting. He knows no one is going to ever lynch you, so his mislynching efforts will never see the light of day. That being said though, I think it's better that he dies tomorrow. Today is a day for Gravan. What do you think about him? wat? I guess trying to kill scumaverick isnt considered scum hunting. I think im harping on the subject because people are sheeping so hard this game and refuse to do any thinking for themselves. I'm just bringing out the facts that thinking toad is town because of that could very well be getting blindsided. Also, wtf another set-up for the mislynch tomorrow. I was referring to your harping on Toad as useless, not your harping on Mav. My read on Mav is still gray, as I haven't finished reading his filter yet.
How is creating discussion useless?
Also there are still 24.5 hours left, if you don;'t agree with the cases explain why and make a case of your own on somebody. The more discussion the better.
Also
On September 14 2012 06:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:13 slOosh wrote:On September 11 2012 01:21 Toadesstern wrote:
Let's be honest here:
I think if we lynch into one of either Forumite, S&B, BM or Z-Boson we're going to hit "not-townie" all the way. On September 14 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote:
Yeah I'd be willing to lynch anyone out of Gravan, Mementoss and Mav today (so far).
But I'm willing to sheep someone else today, for the good of town! Something is definitely out of order here. It's like you don't care who get's lynched. How did your scum reads change so drastically? I explained that like 3 times. Do you want me to quote it or are you going to search for it yourself?
On September 13 2012 19:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I said either BM or Foru are mafia later on. Something like d2, n2 or d3 I guess? So that one would be the more updated read on BM but not sure if that still holds.
It was based on the "there has to be a mafia vet" assumption and forumite flipping green (=neither red nor black) pretty much destroyed that, or at least it now has an interesting twist to it:
As far as I know we don't actually know whether we've got Assassins in this game or not. If we have some it's highly likely that BM and S&B are those Assassins because hosts don't usually give 3rd party roles to new guys because they're hard to play. If that's the case we obviously don't have a mafia within those 2.
If we don't have Assassins to begin with we probably still have a mafia within those 2.
Not sure I want to take that gamble today.
Is this your explanation? So you think BM and S&B are not scum based on some setup nonsense, or am I reading this wrong?
That being said, S&B get your ass in here and do something useful.
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EBWOP:
Also there are still 24.5 hours left, if you don;'t agree with the cases explain why and make a case of your own on somebody. The more discussion the better.
This was meant to be directed at all, not towards only ShadySands
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On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote:
I would agree with Hapa that Mattchew is almost a 100% scum read. He's done a good job of highlighting why.
But there is more than one scum. We need to move past Mattchew onto pressuring other people. A scum lynch day one puts us in an excellent position going forward. Looking at others' filters I couldn't help but notice that there still are a considerable number of people that need to participate more to help ensure a strong pro-town environment going into day 2.
Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste.
On the other hand, Gravan, MKfuba, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons.
Don't mafia usually try to at least list one fellow team mate in these things lol.
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On September 14 2012 06:41 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:23 Gravan wrote:On September 14 2012 05:22 Shady Sands wrote:Gravan's above post is anti-town defensive play at its scummy worst. In addition to my prior charges against him, now I can say he's lying as well: First off, he says I'm actively lurking. I'm not. Actively lurking would be posting heavily and having a 10 or 15 page filter without substance. I'm simply lurking. I even say it myself that my activity level is low. Second, he says I started a bandwagon on him based on Forumite's green flip. That's an oversimplification. I started the wagon on Gravan because he piled onto Forumite when the case on Forumite was all but assured, using other people's analysis as his own reasoning, in an attempt to look contributory. The fact that Forumite flipped green is just icing on the cake. Grav's trying to twist the truth here; don't fall for it. Third, the vig hit was called out because of my case on Gravan before the Day post came around. Gravan even quotes it in his post. It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green. Vig please hit Gravan or MMToss. Again, don't fall for Grav's lies. I already called for a vig hit there with evidence, so why should I clutter up the thread and repeat what I wrote? Fourth, of course I'm going to keep the heat on Gravan: he is the scummiest read I have, so shouldn't I be trying to get my top scumread lynched? -- Now, onto his defense: Grav posts a lot about how he shares a ton of characteristics with many other people. This is a non-defense. How does sharing a bunch of scummy characteristics with other people make you less likely to be a scum? Then says that people who are voting for him specifically are voting because: I think that the only reason the vote is primarily focused on me at the moment is because the bandwagon began earlier on me than it did on anyone else (started by the mafia, I have no doubt) and it is easy to point at my D1 post about Matt, as well as my general lurkiness. Hang on a second: Grav wasn't the first wagon: the wagon on MMToss started at the same time as his did. (Another lie.) Second, the other reasons are all great reasons to vote for Grav specifically: The D1 post about Matt--soft defense of someone that was later a scum caught trying to fakeclaim. The active lurkiness--both of those reasons, if you believe them, should put Grav at the top of your list of scum reads. And to those reasons which he himself admits to, we can also add the reason of lying. Lynch Grav, the actively lurking, OMGUS-ing, lying, soft-defending, scum. I am lying because you've interpreted what "actively lurking" means differently than I have? That is a difference in semantics, not lying. You keep mentioning my "lies", and how there is this apparently strong evidence towards me being scummy, but you really are not making a case.You're just pointing the finger at me, picking apart what I say, and calling it scummy. Toad then pops in, mindlessly agrees, and continues talking on to talk about a different lynch topic. On September 14 2012 05:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Toad, look at Grav and tell me how you don't see a scum. I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. Does nobody else see something wrong here? Stop playing coy. Out with it. Are you calling Toad scum?
Gravan conviently dissapears. lol
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On September 14 2012 07:08 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 06:41 slOosh wrote:On September 14 2012 06:23 Gravan wrote:On September 14 2012 05:22 Shady Sands wrote:Gravan's above post is anti-town defensive play at its scummy worst. In addition to my prior charges against him, now I can say he's lying as well: First off, he says I'm actively lurking. I'm not. Actively lurking would be posting heavily and having a 10 or 15 page filter without substance. I'm simply lurking. I even say it myself that my activity level is low. Second, he says I started a bandwagon on him based on Forumite's green flip. That's an oversimplification. I started the wagon on Gravan because he piled onto Forumite when the case on Forumite was all but assured, using other people's analysis as his own reasoning, in an attempt to look contributory. The fact that Forumite flipped green is just icing on the cake. Grav's trying to twist the truth here; don't fall for it. Third, the vig hit was called out because of my case on Gravan before the Day post came around. Gravan even quotes it in his post. It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green. Vig please hit Gravan or MMToss. Again, don't fall for Grav's lies. I already called for a vig hit there with evidence, so why should I clutter up the thread and repeat what I wrote? Fourth, of course I'm going to keep the heat on Gravan: he is the scummiest read I have, so shouldn't I be trying to get my top scumread lynched? -- Now, onto his defense: Grav posts a lot about how he shares a ton of characteristics with many other people. This is a non-defense. How does sharing a bunch of scummy characteristics with other people make you less likely to be a scum? Then says that people who are voting for him specifically are voting because: I think that the only reason the vote is primarily focused on me at the moment is because the bandwagon began earlier on me than it did on anyone else (started by the mafia, I have no doubt) and it is easy to point at my D1 post about Matt, as well as my general lurkiness. Hang on a second: Grav wasn't the first wagon: the wagon on MMToss started at the same time as his did. (Another lie.) Second, the other reasons are all great reasons to vote for Grav specifically: The D1 post about Matt--soft defense of someone that was later a scum caught trying to fakeclaim. The active lurkiness--both of those reasons, if you believe them, should put Grav at the top of your list of scum reads. Also: On September 14 2012 07:03 Mementoss wrote:On September 14 2012 06:41 slOosh wrote:On September 14 2012 06:23 Gravan wrote:On September 14 2012 05:22 Shady Sands wrote:Gravan's above post is anti-town defensive play at its scummy worst. In addition to my prior charges against him, now I can say he's lying as well: First off, he says I'm actively lurking. I'm not. Actively lurking would be posting heavily and having a 10 or 15 page filter without substance. I'm simply lurking. I even say it myself that my activity level is low. Second, he says I started a bandwagon on him based on Forumite's green flip. That's an oversimplification. I started the wagon on Gravan because he piled onto Forumite when the case on Forumite was all but assured, using other people's analysis as his own reasoning, in an attempt to look contributory. The fact that Forumite flipped green is just icing on the cake. Grav's trying to twist the truth here; don't fall for it. Third, the vig hit was called out because of my case on Gravan before the Day post came around. Gravan even quotes it in his post. It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green. Vig please hit Gravan or MMToss. Again, don't fall for Grav's lies. I already called for a vig hit there with evidence, so why should I clutter up the thread and repeat what I wrote? Fourth, of course I'm going to keep the heat on Gravan: he is the scummiest read I have, so shouldn't I be trying to get my top scumread lynched? -- Now, onto his defense: Grav posts a lot about how he shares a ton of characteristics with many other people. This is a non-defense. How does sharing a bunch of scummy characteristics with other people make you less likely to be a scum? Then says that people who are voting for him specifically are voting because: I think that the only reason the vote is primarily focused on me at the moment is because the bandwagon began earlier on me than it did on anyone else (started by the mafia, I have no doubt) and it is easy to point at my D1 post about Matt, as well as my general lurkiness. Hang on a second: Grav wasn't the first wagon: the wagon on MMToss started at the same time as his did. (Another lie.) Second, the other reasons are all great reasons to vote for Grav specifically: The D1 post about Matt--soft defense of someone that was later a scum caught trying to fakeclaim. The active lurkiness--both of those reasons, if you believe them, should put Grav at the top of your list of scum reads. And to those reasons which he himself admits to, we can also add the reason of lying. Lynch Grav, the actively lurking, OMGUS-ing, lying, soft-defending, scum. I am lying because you've interpreted what "actively lurking" means differently than I have? That is a difference in semantics, not lying. You keep mentioning my "lies", and how there is this apparently strong evidence towards me being scummy, but you really are not making a case.You're just pointing the finger at me, picking apart what I say, and calling it scummy. Toad then pops in, mindlessly agrees, and continues talking on to talk about a different lynch topic. On September 14 2012 05:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:
[quote]
Are you reading the game?
Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me?
They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill).
Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson.
Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here.
Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday.
I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far.
You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Toad, look at Grav and tell me how you don't see a scum. I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. Does nobody else see something wrong here? Stop playing coy. Out with it. Are you calling Toad scum? Gravan conviently dissapears. lol Really? I have been gone, what, a few hours? And to those reasons which he himself admits to, we can also add the reason of lying. Lynch Grav, the actively lurking, OMGUS-ing, lying, soft-defending, scum. I am lying because you've interpreted what "actively lurking" means differently than I have? That is a difference in semantics, not lying. You keep mentioning my "lies", and how there is this apparently strong evidence towards me being scummy, but you really are not making a case.You're just pointing the finger at me, picking apart what I say, and calling it scummy. Toad then pops in, mindlessly agrees, and continues talking on to talk about a different lynch topic. On September 14 2012 05:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 05:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:
Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?
Why was MKFuba killed? Are you reading the game? Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me? They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill). Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson. Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here. Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday. I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far. You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else. Toad, look at Grav and tell me how you don't see a scum. I very much think he's scum. I like my vote on Mementoss better for the moment though. If only for the reason that I no longer want to lynch Mementoss first. Does nobody else see something wrong here? Stop playing coy. Out with it. Are you calling Toad scum? I am trying to incite some discussion on the topic. I am still reading through toad's filter and I find it very difficult to get a read on him. He spends a lot of time arguing meta and boasting about how great he is at mafia, but he also appears to contribute. Really, I just want to point out that, if you guys do lynch me, when I flip green, to take a good hard look at Toad's interactions with Shady - something I am currently doing.
What do you think of my case on Maverick do you think Maverick is scum, all you said about him was using his scuminess to defend your scuminess....
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On September 14 2012 07:51 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 04:42 Gravan wrote:As a final aside, imallinson is critical of Mav's scumreads being based on lurkers, and is now voting on me on that very basis. On September 12 2012 21:12 imallinson wrote:On September 12 2012 07:50 Maverick32x wrote:
Okay.
Just read through the latest lynch... I was planning on dropping my notes but it just would look cluttered so I'm going to settle with the people that I'm REALLY sure are mafia and give my explanation for it. I am ranking them in the order of my confidence in my read.
My top 3 are tied for number 1 reads.
ShiaoPi - Scummy. Really scummy. DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- this is copied straight out of my notes that I was taking.... Honestly.. just read through his filter/posts!! There is no way this guy is town. 0. No chance. I think he voted Z-Boson because he knew it would be a throw-away vote.
Shady Sands- just scummy. Hard defends Shiao. Argues with Hapa (town). DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- So similar to the play style of ShiaoPi and there seems to be some really slight buddying occurring. He continues to live in "Matthchew" land and never seems to snap into the current thread which kind of shows me a lack of understanding. His most recent attack on Gravan to be honest is just an attempt to push an early vote while scum is being successful.
Rewok- side steps responsibility constantly. He has ONE PAGE OF FILTER. (@!#*(@!* So either awful town, or scum.
DoYouHas Mementoss- Totally uninvolved. Voted me besides it having zero impact on the game.
Scummy. His ONE saving grace is that he repped DoYouHas... the only problem with that is DoYouHas was kind of scummy.... and Mementoss is doing just about nothing to save that... Also Shady's 'coin flip' indicates that one of his options is scum... and its Mementoss.
Toadesstern- Random poker talk? Discusses roles bit. Rustles up the forumite case based off a different game. Makes an interesting accusation that either Grush OR sandy is scum… makes me think Grush is likely town and Shadey is scum based on my reads above. Defends Shady shortly after that "Or" post and soft attacks him same post indicating some sort of ambivalence about being too closely connected. DISAPPEARS when its voting time, even though he kind of was a major advocate of the Forumite lynch at the start.....
slosh- posts late. Softly attacks forumite. References past games a lot. Afks most of the game when discussions are getting active. Gets active on Forumite then gone. He references that scum's plan is likely to lay low.. which is exactly what he is doing.
So there you have it. It will take a miracle from God to get me to vote anyone but those top 3. The bottom 3 have some leverage to work with, but not much. Does anyone else find this post really off. His 'top 3 scum reads' is just a list of lurkers there isn't anything substantive to go on. By now there should be more to build a case on than 'disappearing around the vote'. Ok, this is just straight up bullshit. The reason why I'm voting you has nothing to do with you lurking. It's to do with you soft defending Matt day 1 but more this: Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:
There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy. The fact that you are lying about the case against you to make it seem less strong is just making me think you are scum even more.
What do you think of maverick and why gravan over maverick?
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On September 14 2012 20:13 Shady Sands wrote:
These are my top lynch candidates at the moment:
Gravan
Maverick
I also have a strong townread on SnB, and my previous townread on sloosh is slipping into null territory after his weak list above.
How do you have a townread on SnB let alone a STRONG townread, wtf, this guy hasn't done shit all game.
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On September 15 2012 01:59 Kreb wrote:Ok, first my vote so thats clear to the rest of you: #Vote GravanBecause - I already mentioned him in my previous post - His defense was, imo, lacking - The main voting targets are Mav and SS, which I already explained I dont wanna vote on. I'll also add to Mav that his defense was much better than Gravans (mainly this post) + Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 09:00 Maverick32x wrote:Read through the case on me- There is a LOT of tunneling going on.... Also why are people STILL bringing up Matt?? My 'soft defense' occurred prior to any confirmation that he was lying... once that was confirmed.. I switched. Simple enough. As for my "blaming the lurkers is an easy strategy"- There is something unique about those top 3 that I find is different than just 'lurking'.... there is something about the frequency of posts and the disappearance of them.... I know thats not the concrete answer you guys want, so I'll try to get some 'science' to back that feeling up. Voting me is a mistake. I am a plain boring vanilla town. I just really can't understand how ShiaoPi is not scum to more people? Okay, his 'timezone' presents as an issue to discussion.... and I'll even move past the lurking to be more specific in his posts. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:17 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? no...that kind of defeats the purpose Lets bring it ALL the way back... He is backing up Matt's encouragement for others to claim. How is this LESS scummy than me soft defending someone who I didn't know I was lying? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 15:17 ShiaoPi wrote:
No disrespect meant to you rewok, but what the fuck is a list full of null-reads supposed to do? It is on the first hand piling up the the thread like crazy and secondly it gives us 0 information...you are simply rehashing what happened in the thread so far.
That entire post can be summarized into: "I have no clue about you guys, mind helping to lynch scum?"
Seriously.....dafuq Right, Rewok's decision to do this sucks. Doesn't seem like Rewok and him are connected based off that post. I highlight this post mainly due to the relationship that is seen here. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:39 ShiaoPi wrote:
can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long.... Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:55 ShiaoPi wrote:@Ottox: thanks, have a good night and just cut it >_> @Hapa: Besides the ones that have been called out already (e.g. Ottox, goodkarma, Milton, all leaning scum for me, maybe with the exception of Ottox...) I do not really have some at the moment. Austin is way more inactive from the town-austin I know but that's a kind of weak meta argument right now. Also I am still waiting on Gravan On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Both of these posts were made prior to Ottox's (town) death. ALSO, His statement of Ottox (town), Goodkarama(scum) and Milton (personally I think town) are leaning scum... but he 'excuses' Ottox.... LIKELY because he knows that Ottox is on the chopping block. Also, as pointed out previously, it is typical for scum to post a list, and sprinkle in scum buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 16:53 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Internet is unstable as of now, dunno if it will get better. If you are concerned about my meta you should probably read TL Mafia LV instead, since dwarf fortress was a mini, but anyway. Gravan has gone to sleep apparently without doing his promised post, which is something I really don't like... Comments made about his lack of meta- these are covered up by "Internet problems" However, observations made about his meta. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 11:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP:
I just woke up and read through.
Matt flipped red as everyone (bar Ottox) expected, so I'll be talking about him first.
To be honest I thought for a while that Ottoxlol is just bad townie, but having caught up with the thread, naaah he is like 99%
red. Hopefully a vig shoots him tonight, so he's gone.
Also Gravan has finally done some contribution beyond Mattchew stuff, but I am not impressed at all. It feels like it was a
case for sake of writing a case on somebody to get off some pressure which has started on you. He should either be a town
kill at night or lynched tomorrow if it stays this way with all the points in thread already.
Ending the post with some comments on the cases we got this night so far. DYH brought up Hopeless1der as a candidate. Reading Hopeless' filter there is some merit to DYH's accusation, but I am not entirely sold on him being scum.
Hapa also brought out quite a switch from DrH/Blackmamba in opinion so I am interested in hearing his answer to it as well.
Looked a lot like his town play though so maybe he got some good explanation for it.
Also shouldn't lvdr be modkilled by now? no posts at all.
Him and lvdr are likely not connected- again, just another relationship point. Also, Hapa becomes his new target at this point. Similar to Ottox, he starts to pick up speed on targeting him. -He goes into a string of 1 liners at this point- likely due to my confrontation with him.- But then Hapa makes a decent post attacking him. On September 09 2012 12:44 Hapahauli wrote:
1) ShiaoPi has a reasonably active town-meta. ShiaoPi has no scum meta.
2) ShiaoPi is hardcore lurking this game, "internet issues" cited, but were not mentioned pre-game (odd, considering severity). His activity is very different from his 6 town games.
He certainly hasn't posted anything that makes me think he's town. Some other newer players have posts that show effort, but ShiaoPi has shown none. As far as I'm concerned, the above makes him scummy. If he'd like to defend himself and convince me otherwise, he should take the opportunity to do so.
Should I hold your hand too, or will that suffice?I don't want to post the WHOLE quote from Shiao- you can look it up, but again with an excuse of internet problems and a post pretty much just defending himself from Hapa who attacks him pretty hard.... Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 19:27 ShiaoPi wrote:
I would see Hapa as town. His reasoning was solid for most parts and I can understand his frustration with the game since he led a mislynch. Also his "selectiveness" reads to me as focusing on one read at a time which does not sound too bad with me. Got to go now though Similar with Ottox- ShiaoPi decides to absolve Hapa and declare him TOWN. oh ya... Hapa dies that night..... .... .... ..... Seems similar to the Ottox? Ottox attacks him.. Dies... Hapa attacks him... Dies... Something tells me this is more than just a bad feeling.... Get your votes off me you dummies. Vote Scum. Vote ShiaoPi.MAVERICK OUT! And this: + Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 10:18 Maverick32x wrote:Doop-de-doop, I'll look at Grav. Before I dig into filters, my gut feeling of Grav is that he has been on the side lines throughout the game and that he's a new player. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. Passive. Very passive and apologetic. This sounds like subtle fear of being 'found out' (scummy) Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Wants to blend in. Still apologizing. Pretty bad first couple posts. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling. This was my perspective as well when I played the Portal Mafia, which is making me wonder if a lot of this is kind of 'new town' sort of stuff? My perspective was "Kill everyone that is not town" I didn't care if you were 3rd party, 4th party or mafia.... if you weren't green... you needed to die. So his thought that- "Well, he's 3rd party, so we're good to lynch him" makes a lot of sense to me. He connects Ottox and Toad loosely... but I think he digs in a bit with his reads considering his post history. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this:
Matt got caught
Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter
On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU.
Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him?
2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. I ALMOST like this post. He target BM which is cool. Very straight forward, non-apologetic. The only problem is, its only because he's being called out and feels threatened. So again with the fear response. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:18 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this:
Matt got caught
Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter
On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU.
Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him?
2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. This is the worst case I've ever seen. Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where. You chose a poor person to analyze. Bm is like chezinu and incredibly hard to pin down normally. You typically have to rely on things like scumslips to catch either of them or take look at the overall effort they put into a game. Now given that. You're analysis is very lacking, and looks like cherry picking. You don't include examples or even a link to his filter to prove your case. It seems rushed and made by someone backed into a corner. If you are town you should have no reason to feel rushed, you have plenty of time to post your thoughts. First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is. I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray. As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion. I like this post actually. It speaks to me well. I also am not up to speed on the "meta" of other players... This indicates to me that he really IS a new player.. trying to find his way and get the swing of things. He wants to put his thoughts out and get something going, but seems unclear as to how to do it. Okay, as I'm going through the filters from this point to the end of his page 1- he all of a sudden starts to pick up a LOT more momentum. He is being more assertive with his claims and is getting more involved. Here are some posts. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:02 Gravan wrote:On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim. I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case. Just to make it clear I think Shady and Mav are scum I would actually like to hear what you suspect happened on N1 - who did what, from your point of view. What was the scenario? Also, unless I am missing it, did you actually make any kind of case against Shady? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote:
I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question.
Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides.
Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim? Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. It could be a mafia tactic to draw away from the discussion, or it could just be a little too much focus on outside/less relevant factors, but either way I encourage everyone to focus more on filters from this game and less on filters from other games. Also: On September 10 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:##vote: toad for mayorNo but actually, you bring up a very good point. I played in WoF and Forumite this game does remind me of his play from that game. That said, I think austin's case on z-boson is pretty good as well - he's hedging a lot, and his reasoning around the BKE vote really doesn't make much sense. So toad and austin, since both of you are pretty decent players and regardless of your own alignments are gonna be pretty good at mafia logic, what do you make of each others' cases? One last thing - I don't have all that much time so I was looking through some shorter filters. What do people think of hopeless1der? His filter can be described as - kind of a scummy waffle around the mattchew lynch - tunneling forumite Now, on the one hand I think forumite is a decent scum candidate; but seriously I don't think hopeless has talked about anything else for more than one or two lines. This is a contradiction for me from past games, where hopeless's filter has looked well-thought-out and where it's easy to get a town read on him. Also I feel like there might be a contradiction here: On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. On September 08 2012 16:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
Unless someone claims a vig shot on GK, you're supposed to be dead right now. That was worse than Mattchew's claim. insta-reaction was to throw water on bke's claim, even though he already knew a scum with a role could also deliver a factional kp. Now, I also didn't believe bke's claim, but it's not just that he didn't believe it - he discounted it with a reason that he already knew wasn't airtight. Not sure how bad of a contradiction that is but I think it is a contradiction. I do get the feeling (as I implied/made light of earlier) that Hopeless' claim was a little too absolute. I would like to hear a little more of Hopeless so that I can get a bit more of a read on him - especially since his favourite target (forumite) is in the spotlight/sights right now. Ok, this next post I think is REALLY important. Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 05:48 Gravan wrote:On September 12 2012 05:39 Forumite wrote:On September 12 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote:If you're going to respond, could you not cherry pick?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson?
Why do you want me to die?
Make an effort to explain yourself.
I don´t know, stuff you´ve done. I´m not as sure on you as on Z-boson and BM though, and sometimes I get the feeling you are more likely town. I have 80 minutes left in the game, why do you want me to spend it on making a case on you? On September 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:On September 12 2012 04:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Also, eagerly awaiting your case on mav: On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote:
I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. When I posted this I was at page 40. I'm at page 59 now. So I still have half the game to catch up on. At this point it won't change whose going to get lynched, but I still have to find out who is scum so I can be helpful day4 Mementoss is SCUM SCUM SCUM! Noone cares about Mav, so stop wasting your vote and actually put it on someone that might get lynched tonight. There are only 3 candidates: Forumite
Z-Boson
Bill MurrayPut it on one of them, or I´ll scream at vigis to kill you tonight! On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. FML You explain how all three candidates are scummy, and then vote the one with the biggest wagon. You are SCUM! too. This kind of posts only strengthens the need to vote for you, in my mind. Down to the wire, all you are doing is pointing as many fingers as you can, as aggressively as you can (in big red letters, hehe), with the bare minimum amount of evidence or effort. It seems desperate instead of simply defensive. Why not try to clear your name and answer the accusations about yourself as best you can in an attempt to lift votes off you (no matter how futile, at this late hour)? Hopeless (the first person in the game to point a serious finger at you) has even given you this opportunity on a silver platter. Yet, all you continue to do is dodge and slip around, shouting at other people and being selective in your question answering and case-making. This is something that I think he was TRYING to do early game. However, he kind of violates his own rule when he decided to turn on BM in an attempt to 'clear his name'. In fact- his quoted posts above clearly indicate that he felt he needed a counter argument... which was to point fingers to clear his name????? Other than that, he has started to contribute a lot more which I can relate to. I hate posting early in the game. It sucks. Its confusing. There are too many people talking. You have people like BM saying things like "This person is scum" and everyone just listens to them for seemingly NO reason... Now though- he is posting significantly differently than he was at the start.... Why would a scum INCREASE his posting.. when there are plenty of lurkers for him to hide amongst? He is putting himself out there in more assertive ways... This speaks more to Gravan's personality as a person.. probably awkward in groups- has to get to know people more before opening up...probably only has a few close friends.. etc etc... (Also yes, I am a therapist ha) tldr: Gravan appears to be a new player(town)- or a mafia pretending to be new.. and doing an absolutely awesome job at it. I'll add to SS too in my next post, but I got an additional town read on him too. Not 100% related to my vote so putting it in next post. - I also did, at least at first glance, Mavs case on ShiaoPi looked good, gonna read through it, but as Shiao is so far to catching up on votes im not gonna vote him anyway. - BM is still on my list of people to consider, but no votes on him = my vote goes to Gravan quite clearly.
How was Mav's defense good? He basically said why are people bringing up my scummy post from day 1. If you say something SO scummy on day 1, it doesn't magically get unscummy by day 4. He's trying to discredit things he did in the past as non relevant. Also, the way that slo0sh immediately mentioned how Mav's statement on Grav made Mav look town is really discomforting. It looks like slo0sh told him to write that about Grav looking townie, and then for him to tell the rest of the town that it makes Mav look town. Hm. I still like the Maverick lynch personally.
I don't think the BM stuff on shady really shows anything.
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On September 15 2012 02:28 Toadesstern wrote:
30 more minutes until I've got to leave. Shady Sands or Gravan?
Mav??
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On September 15 2012 02:25 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:13 Shady Sands wrote:
These are my top lynch candidates at the moment:
Gravan
Maverick
I also have a strong townread on SnB, and my previous townread on sloosh is slipping into null territory after his weak list above. How do you have a townread on SnB let alone a STRONG townread, wtf, this guy hasn't done shit all game.
Unbury
The only person I would be willing to vote other than Mav today would be SnB. Everything slo0sh said is exactly how I felt reading everything SnB said this game.
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On September 11 2012 04:07 Rewok wrote:
I've been wrong every time I voted on my own instinct and right the time I followed Toade so my vote is for Forumite.
##vote: Forumite
On September 15 2012 04:12 Rewok wrote:
We're really bad at this game this time.
Vote: Gravan
You mean your really bad at this game? God damn man
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On September 15 2012 05:12 Kreb wrote:
Mementoss/Gravan? Not considering switching?
No its too late, and Im pretty sure im voting a scum out
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On September 15 2012 05:24 Gravan wrote:
I am leaving my vote on Shady because I am not necessarily convinced of the other voting prospects. I don't want another mislynch.
If BM or Rewok came up, I would consider it - but don't think switching to Mav is necessarily any better. If he is town (I am leaning that way) then lynching him is no better than lynching myself, really.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz you know your own alignment
so voting anyone out other than yourself if your town
has better chance of killing mafia if it comes to it
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On September 15 2012 05:44 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:41 Mementoss wrote:On September 15 2012 05:24 Gravan wrote:
I am leaving my vote on Shady because I am not necessarily convinced of the other voting prospects. I don't want another mislynch.
If BM or Rewok came up, I would consider it - but don't think switching to Mav is necessarily any better. If he is town (I am leaning that way) then lynching him is no better than lynching myself, really. zzzzzzzzzzzzz you know your own alignment so voting anyone out other than yourself if your town has better chance of killing mafia if it comes to it I guess you could say that I am all in on Shady, then.
His team mates would kill him for not switching to the second most voted person, gravan is town
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Well maverick isnt getting lynched so Im going SnB. Too bad everyone voting gravan is convienently afk
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EPT
