EPTSorry Bluelightz for being relatively inactive. It was hard to find motivation to keep playing when the whole town was basically lurking
Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia - Page 4
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Sorry Bluelightz for being relatively inactive. It was hard to find motivation to keep playing when the whole town was basically lurking | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
GG everyone! | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 19 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: DYH: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/gts8a2CDre3 as you will be able to tell I couldn't tell at all who was scum :/ I accused everyone except for Mord at some point... What he said. We discussed it a lot after I died, and I could literally make a case on all 5 people at that point. E: Also a bit of a series of unfortunate events. I actually had ##protect marvellosity typed out night1, but at the last second I changed it to sciberbia because I convinced myself that marv was scum and scib was the clear second choice. However, that meant that I couldn't prot scib n2 now, when I was 99% sure he was going to be the one killed. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I just convinced myself at the last second that he wasn't town. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
slOosh wrote: Keir is definitely more quiet than usual meta, but I think its probably because this game is so stagnant and it feeds off itself. Yea, I feel pretty bad about that, but you hit the nail on the head. My lack of motivation kept me from posting more to get conversation running, and the lack of conversation killed my motivation. Catch-22, and I feel pretty terrible for it. Also: rofl at protecting scum n2 and n3  n2 was basically just a throwaway protect because I was pretty damn sure that scib was going to be hit, and I was pretty sure I wasn't going to want to protect slOosh n3. The n3 protect was because I started thinking CL was mafia (because lets admit it, he had a lot of extremely scummy plays), and DYH was pushing him the hardest. In hindsight, I should have been more suspicious of DYH's "Oh yea Keir, good point I agree. ##vote risk". I dunno, my reads weren't really that great and like I said, at the end I honestly had no clue who the actual scum was because no one had done anything to appear especially townie, and everyone had things that could be construed as scum motivated. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 19 2012 03:37 DoYouHas wrote: Something that I realized might give me away later was the final vote count from day 1. In a situation where votes are on 2 main candidates, mafia almost always split their vote between them. In this case it was only slightly less likely because prplhz was scum so all scum 'might' have piled onto Forumite. Marv and I actually talked about that specifically after I died (and I believe he talked to VE about it to). We were all of the opinion that all 3 piling onto Forumite to save prplhz wouldn't have been a terrible play, because TL Mafia meta in general is that "scum never does obviously bad things". E: for reference: + Show Spoiler [IRC Chat] + [08/16][16:49:25] <marvellosity> Dwarf is annoying me [08/16][16:49:51] <marvellosity> i dislike not knowing the answer :< [08/16][16:49:57] <Laggy> its been annoying me since i made terrible saves and let the two active people get lynched [08/16][16:49:58] <Laggy> err [08/16][16:50:00] <Laggy> NKd [08/16][16:50:11] <Laggy> two active townies* [08/16][16:50:12] <marvellosity> haha [08/16][16:50:19] <marvellosity> your day 1 save [08/16][16:50:20] <marvellosity> was not a bad one [08/16][16:50:25] <marvellosity> just meant it fucked your day 2 save [08/16][16:50:32] <Laggy> aye [08/16][16:51:15] <marvellosity> games like that make it obvious why i get NKd, i mean i'm a reasonable scumhunter, nothing that glam... but i don't let towns go inactive [08/16][16:51:23] <Laggy> i kind of wish i did save you though [08/16][16:51:23] <marvellosity> fuck that shit [08/16][16:51:27] <Laggy> and then wasted my n2 save [08/16][16:51:31] <Laggy> then saved scib n3 [08/16][16:51:34] <Laggy> would have been epic [08/16][16:51:39] <marvellosity> hehe [08/16][16:51:40] <marvellosity> yeah  [08/16][16:51:50] <marvellosity> but like [08/16][16:51:58] <marvellosity> scib came across townier than me day 1, so what can you do [08/16][16:52:02] <Laggy> yea [08/16][16:52:06] <Laggy> hard to make that choice [08/16][16:52:26] <marvellosity> mm [08/16][16:52:32] <marvellosity> especially when you had some suspicions of me [08/16][16:52:34] <marvellosity> if you look back on it [08/16][16:52:36] <Laggy> like i said, if you *WERE* townie, you were pretty obviously going to be the n1 hit [08/16][16:52:37] <marvellosity> you can't blame yourself [08/16][16:52:52] <marvellosity> mm [08/16][16:53:01] <Laggy> i mean, scib might have been more townie than you, but i don't imagine any scum fancies trying to get you lynched [08/16][16:53:08] <marvellosity> no [08/16][16:53:23] <marvellosity> good luck to the one who tries [08/16][16:53:25] <Laggy> and you were already voting prpl [08/16][16:53:31] <marvellosity> mm [08/16][16:53:35] <Laggy> so it made sense from their pov to kill you [08/16][16:53:36] <marvellosity> in hindsight [08/16][16:53:37] <marvellosity> yea [08/16][16:53:40] <marvellosity> with my vote on scum [08/16][16:53:43] <marvellosity> someone who keeps town active [08/16][16:53:47] <marvellosity> who the fuck else are you going to vote [08/16][16:53:52] <Laggy> aye [08/16][16:53:55] <marvellosity> *NK [08/16][16:53:59] <marvellosity> but that info isnt in the thread at the time [08/16][16:54:18] <marvellosity> the day 1 votecount is seriously boggling me [08/16][16:54:27] <marvellosity> if DYH isn't scum, scum went all-in on Forumite [08/16][16:54:32] <Laggy> yea :o [08/16][16:54:48] <marvellosity> more and more [08/16][16:54:50] <marvellosity> i think [08/16][16:54:57] <marvellosity> that's not actually a bad play like everyone thinks it is [08/16][16:55:09] <Laggy> right, because everyone assumes you wouldn't do it [08/16][16:55:15] <marvellosity> yes [08/16][16:55:31] <marvellosity> and it's taken until now for it to become even remotely clear it's a possibility [08/16][16:55:45] <Laggy> meta is clouding people's judgement [08/16][16:55:59] <Laggy> mafia meta, not individual meta [08/16][16:56:06] <marvellosity> yeah. [08/16][16:56:20] <marvellosity> like [08/16][16:56:29] <marvellosity> if 3 people pile on to scum [08/16][16:56:40] <marvellosity> how are town supposed to determine the difference between the scum and the other townies?? [08/16][16:56:49] <marvellosity> if there's 2 on and 3 on, what's the difference [08/16][16:57:10] <marvellosity> *if 3 scum pile on to a candidate [08/16][16:57:17] <Laggy> yea [08/16][16:57:30] <Laggy> i think you have to look at their other arguments to make sense of t heir vote [08/16][16:57:39] <marvellosity> mm [08/16][16:57:46] <Laggy> not just the vote count itself [08/16][16:57:46] <marvellosity> it's why DYH's vote on risk was so weak [08/16][16:57:51] <marvellosity> but so was sloosh's [08/16][16:57:57] <marvellosity> this is why [08/16][16:57:58] <Laggy> and mine, to be fair [08/16][16:57:59] <marvellosity> townies [08/16][16:58:01] <marvellosity> need to not play [08/16][16:58:03] <marvellosity> fucking scummily [08/16][16:58:26] <marvellosity> that's at least as important as benig able to find scum imo [08/16][16:58:29] <Laggy> yea [08/16][16:58:36] <Laggy> risk really did fucking NOTHING [08/16][16:58:42] <Laggy> and then gets pissed when people call him scum [08/16][16:58:42] <marvellosity> meh [08/16][16:58:54] <marvellosity> i think i have more exposure to him [08/16][16:58:55] <marvellosity> remember day 1 [08/16][16:59:01] <marvellosity> when i made the "people who don't care" post [08/16][16:59:05] <Laggy> yea [08/16][16:59:09] <marvellosity> it was prplhz/CL, not prplhz/CL/risk [08/16][16:59:10] <Laggy> and it was just prpl and CL [08/16][16:59:12] <marvellosity> mm [08/16][16:59:23] <marvellosity> like [08/16][16:59:28] <marvellosity> I thought his case on CL was a huge towntell [08/16][16:59:36] <marvellosity> but i don't blame you at all for not seeing the same [08/16][17:00:23] <Laggy> it reminded me of mattchew in I Can't Believe [08/16][17:00:30] <Laggy> how he was just sheeping all of scib's cases [08/16][17:00:43] <Laggy> well, making a case on the same person [08/16][17:00:49] <marvellosity> yea don't do that [08/16][17:00:52] <marvellosity> i used to do that [08/16][17:00:59] <marvellosity> like [08/16][17:01:13] <marvellosity> "person A did x and person A was scum, person B is doing x so person B is scum" [08/16][17:01:22] <marvellosity> it's monumentally misleading [08/16][17:01:28] <Laggy> yea i know [08/16][17:01:34] <marvellosity> took me ages to learn it [08/16][17:01:44] <marvellosity> made quite a few mistakes like that [08/16][17:02:24] <Laggy> the one thing that made me actually second guess myself about risk was [08/16][17:02:34] <Laggy> reading through his late-game filter in bureacracy [08/16][17:02:42] <Laggy> he actually started trying [08/16][17:02:46] <Laggy> once he was under suspicion [08/16][17:03:03] <Laggy> in this game he just got angry [08/16][17:03:11] <marvellosity> hm [08/16][17:03:15] <marvellosity> i don't think that's much of a tell [08/16][17:03:31] <marvellosity> the trick with risk [08/16][17:03:35] <marvellosity> and it's superhard [08/16][17:03:46] <marvellosity> is to work out if he's at all invested even when it seems like he isn't [08/16][17:04:21] <Laggy> maybe [08/16][17:04:31] <Laggy> hard to judge that having never played with them though [08/16][17:04:34] <Laggy> or even know what to look for [08/16][17:04:35] <marvellosity> yup [08/16][17:04:37] <marvellosity> yup [08/16][17:04:46] <marvellosity> dunno if you saw in QT [08/16][17:04:56] <marvellosity> where i said that the risk lynch made me suspicious of DYH/sloosh [08/16][17:05:06] <marvellosity> i.e. the two players who DO know what risk can be like. [08/16][17:05:36] <Laggy> yea [08/16][17:05:37] <Laggy> i saw [08/16][17:05:44] <marvellosity> yea [08/16][17:05:45] <marvellosity> that was why [08/16][17:06:15] <marvellosity> do you know who voted prplhz day 2 that dind't day 1 by any chance? [08/16][17:06:49] <Laggy> i deleted my notes that had my vote-count [08/16][17:06:55] <Laggy> i can check though [08/16][17:07:34] <marvellosity> only if it's not too much effort [08/16][17:09:22] <Laggy> D1: DYH, you, me, forumite, risk.... D2: CL, Keirathi, sciberbia, sloosh, DYH, Mordanis, ShiaoPi [08/16][17:10:08] <Laggy> so scib, CL, sloosh, mord, shaopi all new...risk not on the vote that time [08/16][17:10:12] <marvellosity> mm [08/16][17:10:30] <marvellosity> ugh [08/16][17:10:52] <Laggy> yea doesnt help much [08/16][17:11:11] <Laggy> 4 of the 5 people who switched at still alive :p [08/16][17:11:44] <marvellosity> the interesting thing is where the tipping point is [08/16][17:11:54] <marvellosity> unfortunately that requieres rereading the thread [08/16][17:12:05] <marvellosity> i.e. where prplhz was a clear candidate for death [08/16][17:12:26] <Laggy> well risk voted prplhz like a few hours after the day started [08/16][17:12:45] <Laggy> then unvoted, and CL voted prpl [08/16][17:13:00] <Laggy> then DYH made his case on CL and 3'ish people voted for CL [08/16][17:13:13] <Laggy> then scib made the counter case, and I started the voting back on prpl [08/16][17:14:12] <marvellosity> so if DYH is scum, it's likely CL is town [08/16][17:14:30] <Laggy> fair assumption [08/16][17:14:38] <Laggy> it was a pretty big case that was meant to get him lynched [08/16][17:14:50] <Laggy> although DYH did give it up *kind* of easily [08/16][17:15:03] <Laggy> but scib is pretty convincing, so I dunno for sure [08/16][17:15:31] <Laggy> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15798886 DYH case [08/16][17:15:56] <marvellosity> thing is [08/16][17:16:01] <marvellosity> it's a really strong point he makes [08/16][17:16:03] <marvellosity> on the sheeping [08/16][17:16:23] <Laggy> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15811636 scib's follow-up that gets everyone back onto prpl [08/16][17:17:29] <marvellosity> yea [08/16][17:17:33] <marvellosity> it's why i've been confused on CL [08/16][17:17:38] <marvellosity> scib makes some good points in his defence [08/16][17:17:42] <Laggy> yea [08/16][17:19:43] <Laggy> sometimes i felt like scib and I were sharing a brain in this game :o [08/16][17:19:56] <Laggy> he would always say exactly what I was thinking [08/16][17:26:16] <marvellosity> VE thinks all 3 were on foru day 1 [08/16][17:26:43] <Laggy> its quite possible [08/16][17:27:33] <marvellosity> [23:23:55] <VisceraEyes> So they were probably all on Forumite [08/16][17:27:34] <marvellosity> [23:23:57] <VisceraEyes> Is my guess [08/16][17:27:34] <marvellosity> [23:24:04] <marvellosity> hmm [08/16][17:27:34] <marvellosity> [23:24:08] <VisceraEyes> Mislynch right? [08/16][17:27:34] <marvellosity> [23:24:10] <VisceraEyes> Forumite town? [08/16][17:27:34] <marvellosity> [23:24:16] <marvellosity> yea [08/16][17:27:36] <marvellosity> [23:24:21] <VisceraEyes> Then yeah [08/16][17:27:38] <marvellosity> [23:24:32] <VisceraEyes> They piled on Forumite to save prplhz [08/16][17:27:40] <marvellosity> [23:24:41] <VisceraEyes> Occams bro [08/16][17:30:23] <Laggy> prplhz was leading with 6 votes to 4 on Forumite...then Hiro unvoted prpl and switched to Forumite, and ShiaoPi unvoted Mord and switched to Forumite [08/16][17:30:29] <Laggy> then the Mord/CL thing [08/16][17:30:34] <Laggy> made it 7/5 [08/16][17:30:53] <Laggy> err wait [08/16][17:31:40] <marvellosity> fuck me [08/16][17:31:41] <marvellosity> what was hiro doing [08/16][17:31:42] <marvellosity> god damnit [08/16][17:32:11] <Laggy> 6-3 when Hiro switched, which made it 5-4..then shiaopi made it 5-5 [08/16][17:32:19] <Laggy> yea, no clue [08/16][17:32:25] <marvellosity> 5-4 [08/16][17:32:33] <marvellosity> ugh [08/16][17:33:17] <marvellosity> that CL thing [08/16][17:33:20] <marvellosity> is fucking everything up [08/16][17:33:29] <Laggy> haha [08/16][17:33:48] <Laggy> its so fucking dumb for either alignment [08/16][17:34:15] <Laggy> that its hard to get a read on it [08/16][17:34:15] <marvellosity> the fact we're discussing it [08/16][17:34:18] <marvellosity> gives you the scum motivation for it [08/16][17:35:17] <Laggy> yea, its easy to say "oh scum would never be that bad and call attention to himself" like scib said [08/16][17:35:38] <Laggy> but if you know everyone is going to dismiss it because its so dumb, then you could pull it off [08/16][17:35:44] <Laggy> WIFOM at its finest [08/16][17:35:49] <marvellosity> yes [08/16][17:35:52] <marvellosity> in LIII [08/16][17:36:05] <marvellosity> Risen last-minute voteswitched between two candidates [08/16][17:36:12] <marvellosity> causing the 2nd candidate to get lynched not the first [08/16][17:36:18] <marvellosity> both candidates were town [08/16][17:36:20] <marvellosity> Risen was scum [08/16][17:36:38] <Laggy> haha [08/16][17:36:47] <marvellosity> yeah [08/16][17:36:49] <Laggy> yea someone mentioned that [08/16][17:37:33] <Laggy> i want to play scum [08/16][17:37:38] <Laggy> and just do all the most obvious things [08/16][17:37:45] <Laggy> and see how long it takes me to get lynched [08/16][17:37:54] <Laggy> might not work since i'm a relative newbie though [08/16][17:38:00] <marvellosity> haha yea :p [08/16][17:38:04] <marvellosity> VE thinks CL is town [08/16][17:38:05] <Laggy> and people wouldn't be expecting me to not be dumb [08/16][17:38:07] <marvellosity> didn't buy into scib's defence [08/16][17:38:08] <marvellosity> er [08/16][17:38:10] <marvellosity> CL is scum [08/16][17:38:41] <Laggy> reading its filter, its really, really easy to make a case for him being scum [08/16][17:38:45] <Laggy> his filter* [08/16][17:39:30] <marvellosity> yes [08/16][17:39:31] <marvellosity> super ez, [08/16][17:39:54] <Laggy> his WIFOM posts about the NKs really boggled me too [08/16][17:41:44] <marvellosity> so if we take away the mindboggling stuff [08/16][17:41:46] <marvellosity> we're still left [08/16][17:41:49] <marvellosity> with his bizarrre sheeping [08/16][17:41:52] <marvellosity> and his total about turn on prplhz [08/16][17:41:54] <marvellosity> right? [08/16][17:41:59] <Laggy> yes [08/16][17:42:05] <marvellosity> i mean [08/16][17:42:07] <marvellosity> that's FACTS [08/16][17:42:27] <marvellosity> like [08/16][17:42:35] <marvellosity> his job was to save prplhz day 1 and bus him day 2 [08/16][17:44:10] <Laggy> and he didn't vote for risk on d3, he left his vote on Mordanis P.S. sorry CL we were a bit harsh on you | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 19 2012 07:46 sciberbia wrote: Because I don't know why scum would have wanted me dead if sloosh was also town. Like I'd have just been leading town in all the wrong directions if I were alive D3 and sloosh was town. And they definitely risked a doc save to kill me. It's hard to say this game because slOosh was scum, but in a hypothetical situation in which you were town *AND* sloosh was town at the end of day2, I really see no reason to kill slOosh over you. You were active, pushing reads, defending cases, and generally taking control over the thread. Scum can't afford someone with that much presence to stay alive, even if he has been off on his reads a bit. You would have eventually gotten it right, and had enough town cred to follow through with it, whereas sloosh might not have. E: Holy run-on sentence, batman. | ||
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