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Newbie Mini Mafia XXIII - Page 4

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 03:40 GMT
#557
@shady we have like 19 hours left. Still way too early to have a vote decided. That said, as lurker champion good karma would get my vote Right now.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 03:53 GMT
#559
Go read the thread if you want to get lurker policy.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 04:12 GMT
#564
On August 10 2012 13:00 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2012 12:55 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 10 2012 12:25 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 10 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 10 2012 09:44 Axero wrote:
Since the game started and I didn't know I'd be in it I had previous plans. I've been checking the thread and still trying to feel people out, but since nothing really had anything to do with me personally, I haven't replied. (Not the best play, but again, first game )


So let me get this straight - your strategy going in to this game was to lurk until your name was mentioned, then FOS the guy who called you out for lurking?

As for your first criticism, those two statements I made were my response to YH, not actual suspicions against you, kind of just possibilities. But yes, at this point, it is my gut reaction to your actions.

In the middle of a game of DotA atm, so I'm sure this didn't answer everything you wanted. I'll respond in a bit.


Well hearing your "strategy" - you better have some damn good explanations for your play so far.


I'm getting echoes of Golbat from XXII. Similarly bad play D1, resulted in a lynch of the Vigi. Since it's a newbie game, I think we should be a little nicer on the guy. It might be better for all of us.


I obs'd XXII, and Golbat wasn't NEAR this lurky D1. Golbat was fairly active (~1.5 page filter) and didn't play as bad as you suggest. Axero on the other hand has demonstrated anti-town mentality so far. He also mentioned he'd respond to my earlier post after he was finished with his DOTA game, but never got around to it.


Got it. What I was concerned with was pushing a newbie so hard that they end up in a situation where the more they try to defend themselves, the deeper the hole gets, and inevitably it creates a situation where they become the "easy lynch".

That being said I've been watching Axero too (if you read my earlier posts). He hasn't crossed the scum threshold yet but he is something I am keeping an eye on. But I want to get a neutral read on him before I start the pressure... I don't want my read on him to be colored by the fact that I am pressuring him.


There is also a similarity between Axero and Golbat last game: saying you have things to post without posting them.
Tough to read though: as always bad play is not necessarily scummy play.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 16:19 GMT
#590
@shady
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=28#558
This question got the answer it deserved. Lurker policy has been covered: if you want my views, go look them up.
Regarding the drunk posting, please address the points I made here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=28#552
The post comparing Golbat and Axero was a contribution to an ongoing meta discussion. Not sure how that is suspicious.
Second, why make lurkiness and incoherent posting the sole criteria for how to lynch D1?

This just shows that you haven't been reading the thread carefully.

@YH
please also refer to this post regarding the drunk posts.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=28#552
Your logic is actually plausible, but only for a sober lvdr

Regarding my apparent lack of scumhunting: I was the first to make a case against Sideni, however, Dandel started grilling Sideni so I decided to back off. In my opinion, Sideni has not done a particularly good job of defending himself. The strange analogies don't mean anything and contribute to a filter that is incredibly fluffy.

Like really good pancakes.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 16:21 GMT
#591
EBWOP: ##VoteSideni
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 16:30 GMT
#594
The other person I would be willing to lynch is Axero. In multiple places his thread reading has been called into question, and here is one more:

Lvdr seems to be pointing at several people currently. About 80% of his posts this game have been on the topic of lurkers and calling lurkers out, instead of actually discussing anything that actually involves other people's posts. He has a couple, but not many.


First of all (at time of writing) I am only pointing at Sideni. Second, if you actually read my filter you'll see your 80% lurker post claim to be comical. Both claims are not only incorrect, but easily verifiable by reading.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 16:34 GMT
#597
Does the day end when a majority of votes is reached? Or will we be able to change votes up to the deadline?
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 16:52 GMT
#604
@Dandel: I thought you were doing fine Additional questioning seemed redundant and my suspicions were already clear.

@axero: Your play has been exceeding poor. If you survive lynch d1 please try to pick it up. Instead of writing your 80% accusation based on your perceptions, go back and read to gather evidence and construct a strong case.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 17:54 GMT
#614
I'm working on sideni's case and the TLDR is: No. Maybe there are some useful nuggets to uncover, but I find trying to understand Sideni very difficult.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 18:08 GMT
#616
@Sideni: Your case seems contrived at best and actively ignorant at worst.
Point 1, Mkfuba's case: You call Dandel scum based on not commenting on the case, however by this logic 6 other people should be suspicious to you. However your point that Dandel could have commented could be useful later, but right now it is a WIFOM argument.

Point 2, willingness to lynch YH: You ignore the logic behind considering lynching YH, instead making another wild WIFOM argument.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=21#415 explained by Hapa

Point 3, naming lurkers and spoiler tag placement: Early d1 there are few leads. Pointing this out does not make you scummy. The spoiler tag argument is absurd, and followed up by a WIFOM argument
Yes indeed, we can see that he thinks I'm concerned that I'm on a case, trying to draw attention from people on me ! (I'm not concerned, I'm just explaining myself)


Next, he seems to lack a basic understanding of mafia strategy:
He even says that if I die, it would only help town to get more info about the people who would bandwagon on me...
Why would a town player be happy to get information from a sacrifice of his mate !?
On the first hand, why would he ever think about that if he was town ?!


It is difficult to consistently get red flips with D1 lynches. Town does its best, but the real strategy is that by lynching someone voting patterns will be available for analysis in later rounds.

Doing so, he's again trying to get the attention off of him and Lvdr (Saying Lvdr because it all started because I was talking about Mkfuba's case).


Sideni relentlessly tunnel's a WIFOM scumteam of Dandel and me.

Regarding the lack of scumhunting... Dandel is hunting Sideni because Sideni's play has been outrageously bad/scummy.
He has also made reads on me and Axero. He hasn't been prolific, but (because I share his suspicions) I find targeting Sideni quite reasonable.

Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 18:43 GMT
#620
point 1 : As you know, we are 9 towns and there are 3 mafia. 6 of everbody talked about Mkfuba's case.
Assuming that you are mafia I would assume that mafia players wouldn't comment on the case or at least, they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen. So, my guess is that all 6 people who commented are town and lurkers could be town as well.


This is naive to the point of foolishness.

they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen.

The thing is that YourHarry, before Dandel Ion comments, DOESN'T behave like a scum !


YH offers a rebuttal to mkfuba's case.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=24#470
Maybe you missed it, but it makes your case logically inconsistent.

I want you to explain me how do I seem to lack a basic mafia strategy ? I mean, why would we sacrifice a town to get information when we can lynch someone who looks scummy ?!


YOU look scummy.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 19:49 GMT
#641
On August 11 2012 04:29 Hapahauli wrote:
To be honest, I'm shocked at how little attention that Axero is getting. He's laying low and has demonstrated some clear anti-town behavior. Some players have mentioned having suspicions of him, but no one has so much as FOS'd him.

Go with me a bit here:
If Axero was town, wouldn't he be a REALLY EASY MISLYNCH FOR MAFIA? Why has NO ONE voted for him? I'm inclined to think that his mafia buddies are covering for him!


Right now I think both Sideni and Axero are in the "are they bad or are they scummy" situation. I would argue Sideni has looked more straight up scummy, but I also remember Hapa's advice from earlier that given two players the less active one is more likely to be scum.

Just a note to add, Hapa is really trying to put suspicion on Axero and relieve pressure on Sideni with this post. Worth paying attention to later in the game when we have some flips.

It is around 3 hours to lynch?
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 20:53 GMT
#685
On August 11 2012 05:42 Promethelax wrote:
Does anyone have the votecount in their notes? I don't and don't want to go back through the thread to see where we stand if I can use that time for something useful. Like re reading Axero's posts and hitting myself in the face with a brick.


I've been lurking here thinking the same thing lol.

My vote remains on Sideni, but I'd like to throw some ideas about mkfuba out there.

First, my drunkposts painted a huge target all over me. mkfuba took that opportunity to actually write a case on me, the easiest target at the time. Reminds me of shady sands going after synyster in d 0.5.

Second, the lurkiness. He made his case and had a back-and-forth with YH. Since then he has been completely MIA.

My read is still null. His case was plausible enough at the time and he finishes with this:

As such, I accept full responsibility if a bandwagon forms on Lvdr, as at this time I firmly believe he is scum.


Doesn't seem like a scum play.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 20:59 GMT
#695
On August 11 2012 05:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
Alright I thought about it.
I think this is how I want to proceed:

We lynch lvdr.

He flips town, we lynch Sideni day 2 and probably mkfuba on day 3
He flips scum, you guys probably lynch me day 2

I'm pretty sure we get at least 1 scum with that.

I won't lie, I'd like to have Sideni out of the game as fast as I can, but we all make our sacrifices....


I don't think anyone read this post...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=28#552

With that in evidence what is the case against me?

Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 21:04 GMT
#699
@Dandel Please explain how my flip would give you so much information? It is still entirely possible that Sideni is just a bad and mkfuba had something come up. If that is true than thats gg mafia right there (3lynch+3nk=6 town down)

If I flip scum why would you be the lynch target? You are pushing the case on me, and D1 busing can't be common.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 21:07 GMT
#705
On August 10 2012 11:36 Lvdr wrote:
Also, regarding my drunk-posting: clearly they were controversial snap judgments made early on D1. In terms of content they are completely irrelevant now. However the main argument against me right now is that they 'caused confusion' and therefore I am mafia.

Instead of endlessly discussing policy, giving strong reads and attracting attention in this way gives the town something to actually analyze. Imagine going back to read the discussion after a few flips. The motives of those accusing me AND defending me would be quite informative.


Will someone please address this?
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 21:09 GMT
#707
What is the deadline
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 21:26 GMT
#733
Sideni is taking a 30 minute break. He has been under pressure the entire game, and (wifom i know) if he's town this could be quite frustrating and overwhelming.

My vote stands for now.
Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 21:44 GMT
#739
Hapa, weigh in regarding Sideni. You've said before lynching highly active players D1 is usually not successful. His recent posts seem like a genuinely desperate townie, particularly when he said
Probably my last mafia game


Lvdr
Profile Joined August 2012
United States418 Posts
August 10 2012 22:00 GMT
#746
On August 11 2012 06:54 Dandel Ion wrote:
Can we just lynch a lurker now?
Shady Sands preferrably, Axero is also acceptable

I don't think we're on the right track right now

I actually like this approach more and more. Lets quickly hash out who the best lurker to lynch would be.
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