D1 went well I think. We got a good amout of information that would have been useful later on.

On that note, sideni is mafia because he doesn't fit his town meta!!

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 00:56 GMT

#421

He's not llurking 0.0

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 01:08 GMT

#424

Sorry hapa im inebriated. I didn't mean for it to be taken seriously.

On policy, you have to aim at lurkers to make them come out. Ideally there are no lurkers and lynches can be based on info and reasoning.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 02:06 GMT

#434

Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 03:45 GMT

#451

I wonder if drunkenness is a scumslip?

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 04:03 GMT

#453

More plausible than yh then?

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 19:01 GMT

#483

I was writing a breakdown of Yh's town claim... then I read that it got retracted. So much for that.

Given that the claim was retracted and YH (according to him) didn't know his alignment when he made the claim we cannot really draw any conclusions based on it. Any argument would be a WIFOM from YH's point of view, but even YH didn't know what his alignment was.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 20:54 GMT

#497

I made that statement because YH's goal would go along these lines: It's a blind town read that could turn into a WIFOM town circle based on hapa's later reaction -- given that YH is town.

Otherwise Yh could be mafia trying to gain town cred by calling someone town (who he knows is town).
If both are mafia it would be quite risky because one red flip casts suspicion on the other in that case.

However they would still be providing some cover to each other.

As i said the point is moot because it was retracted and its impossible to make a WIFOM read on YH if he didn't know his role at the time.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 21:05 GMT

#503

@hapa I don't think the case you're making against iamperfection is really scummy.

link 1: iam clearly does not trust yh, especially given what happened last game. understandable.

link 2: he is looking for more information. yes he doesn't offer an opinion, but it seems like a null read, not scummy.

link3: as you said he missed the joke spoiler. null read.

link 4: confirms that he missed the spoiler mentioned in link 3 and shows a proportional amount of suspicion on me. reads town to me because mafia have no interest in encouraging me to mount a good defense.

link 5: follows his established pattern of encouraging others to put out more information and reads.

This reads as a very flimsy case and even a bit of a reach.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 21:17 GMT

#507

Let me try to make it clear what i think is most likely.

Right after his town read, YH says

I dream of catching scums by trolling.

and then

This game though, it just took one post for me to trust you.

YH's read is almost certainly not serious.

Hapa is a good enough player to immediately

@ YourHarry:
Thanks for your trust, but keep in mind that most players in-game had a strong town read on me in XXI... and we all know what happened out of that! I'll be sure to make my townie motives clear throughout the game =)

That means YH didn't catch him in a scumslip, but he isn't just cleared as town either.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 21:51 GMT

#510

Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)...

I find this passage by Sideni somewhat scummy. Sideni claims a weak command of english multiple times, but is still comfortable bandwagoning mkfuba's argument with a semantic argument. As i said last game, scum hate making their own cases, and Sideni's is pretty fluffy.

FOS Sideni

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 22:02 GMT

#513

@hapa - What do you think of my analysis of link 4 in your case?
I agree that iamperfection hasn't offered much of his own, but his play has really mirrored your own in terms of questioning many people.

@iamperfection - I encourage you to make a case of your own. While you have encouraged plenty of discussion, you haven't contributed a lot of your own analysis.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 22:09 GMT

#516

On August 10 2012 07:06 iamperfection wrote:

Show nested quote +

I aint going to fabricate a case just to defend myself.

If you have no analysis to make doesn't this make you useless to the town? The idea behind lynching lurkers is that continued activity makes it very difficult for mafia to hide. In this case you are refusing to put yourself out there; essentially that would make you a lurker.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 22:23 GMT

#519

It seems to me that mafia would want me to thrash myself into a mislynch. Essentially, leave him alone and vote for him later.

Town is afraid of mislynching and encourages a robust defense in the interest of getting more information.

It cannot be said enough that it is d1 and these reads are completely preliminary. Look it as +1 town points, but you need more than 1 to be town, or town read with low confidence.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 22:37 GMT

#522

@iamperfection - Why are you so hostile to the idea of analysis? You are also "trying to get people to talk" so why is this scummy behavior when I do the same? You clearly mailed-it-in on that case, making an OMGUS case because you're mad at me for some reason.

@everyone - What is the book on emotional players?

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 22:59 GMT

#524

I wasn't accusing Sideni of bandwaggoning. Agreeing with mkfuba's case is not what I found suspicious. The fact that it is directed against me is irrelevant.

It was the additional case Sideni provided. How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 09 2012 23:04 GMT

#525

EBWOP:

The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)...

This is the fluff.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 10 2012 02:20 GMT

#551

My question regarding emotional players is because iamperfection clearly was raging when he FOS'ed me. I assume this has happened in the past, and was curious about the trends, ie. people get mad which gets them lynched and they flip green. This is still really my first game of forum mafia, so I'm curious to see what people think.

With regard to the apparently contradicting posts I made regarding Sideni's scummy argument and bandwagoning, I should have phrased it that I wasn't accusing Sideni for bandwagoning. My intent was to draw attention to what I saw as a weak and fluffy argument. Notice the second sentence:

Agreeing with mkfuba's case is not what I found suspicious.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 10 2012 02:36 GMT

#552

Also, regarding my drunk-posting: clearly they were controversial snap judgments made early on D1. In terms of content they are completely irrelevant now. However the main argument against me right now is that they 'caused confusion' and therefore I am mafia.

Instead of endlessly discussing policy, giving strong reads and attracting attention in this way gives the town something to actually analyze. Imagine going back to read the discussion after a few flips. The motives of those accusing me AND defending me would be quite informative.

Lvdr

United States418 Posts

August 10 2012 03:09 GMT

#553

Time for some lurker rankings!

3. Shady Sands: Shady has taken umbrage with a (admittedly) confusing clarification I made and accused axero of lurking. He hasn't said anything else, but he's taken a position.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=25#499

2. Axero: Axero has appeared long enough to FOS Hapa for (rightfully) calling him a lurker. OMGUS at its finest.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&currentpage=27#535

1. goodkarma: goodkarma has given us gems like:

Here's to hoping that there won't be like 3+ lurkers this game... -_-

and

s a side-note, I'm betting we don't have many lurkers anyway. We are very fortunate to have had this game restarted, as it's given lurkers a chance to weed themselves out from playing .

... and followed it up with some quality lurkage. I declare goodkarma our lurker champion for now.