EPTMad Men Mafia - Page 7
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Broodking/Synstyr (Zentor/Glasse) are how I view it. Two main options and two outside possibilities. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
The problem with 'my game', sweetie, is that I need people like you to co-operate in order to for it to work  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
 ). So perhaps you can understand my arrogance in wanting town just to sheep me with my current record.However. I might be outrageously arrogant, but much more than this, I want to win. So we cannot afford a mislynch today because of the difficulties I'm having with the final scum means town might need another. With this said, Hopeless1der and all other townies reading, I will actually present the case against JingleHell. That way, if you don't vote with me, I can legtimiately blame whoever doesn't vote for me without losing the game for town, rather than the possibly legitimate excuse that 'marv was an asshole and didn't give a reason'. JingleHell I mostly want to focus on the interactions between him and VE, but I will also touch on the interactions to do with talis/zeph and possibly Erandorr too. To set the scene, JingleHell went hard after Erandorr pretty hard at the beginning of the game. He later dropped the read practically completely, owing to the mason conversation he had with talismania. Think about this for a moment before we continue. Jingle was totally convinced Erandorr was scum (check his filter page 1-2) and was convinced otherwise by talismania. Just want to get the background out there first. The fail bus on VisceraEyes Starting at the end, page 85, with part of his interactions with me: On August 14 2012 03:10 JingleHell wrote: It must be very convincing to mention my filter when you clearly haven't read it. Handy to make a case out of nothing. I don't know what the hell you're thinking, but if you want to make ME look scummy, you'll have to try harder to push through a mislynch on me. I wanted VE days ago. He somehow got Erandorr through instead. This was after Talis explained point by point why he thought the case against Talis was weaker than it looked, and sold me on it. That was one of the things that also convinced me on Talis. All this information is readily available. You know, in my filter, which will also explain every other thing you're waiting to bring up as "evidence" against me. Aside from the absurd ranting against me, the general idea is that he's shouting at me because I didn't appreciate how much he wanted a VE lynch days ago. Let's have a look at how badly he wanted it. Incoming are some quotes with Jingle's thoughts on VE. On August 07 2012 03:33 JingleHell wrote: Frankly, if I was going to call alignment based purely off of the case/countercase etc between you [talis] and VE, it would look like two townies beating each other to death with WIFOM. At the moment, opinion is VE/talis town. Check. Carry on. On August 07 2012 03:06 JingleHell wrote: Well, I don't know how many total masons there are, but we may well have some in reserve, and trying to WIFOM the host seems silly anyways. That said, at least part of the case against VE seems to rely on meta, which is mostly vague references. I've seen a few things that make me question his motive for individual statements (don't remember off the top of my head) but overall his play has seemed consistent without being calculated. A lot of it seems to be semantics rather than motivation, and (given some mistakes I've made reading people that way before) I'd prefer to avoid making it all about that. Overall, I really prefer the stuff that started crawling around under the rock I already looked under. Since we don't have any living confirmed townies, I'd prefer to avoid trying to prove innocence, and instead try to prove guilt. Establishing innocence is difficult at best, and an easy way to distract the town, so I'd rather keep an eye out for people making statements that require foreknowledge or have no town motive. The case against VE is 'vague meta', 'semantics', VE's play seems 'consistent without being calculated', and it's not about motivation. No scumread yet. BUT HOLY SHIT LOOK AT HIS NEXT MENTION OF VE On August 07 2012 23:00 JingleHell wrote: Going after Hassy at this point almost feels like it would be lynching for information. I can't understand the motivation of his play from any perspective, with his utterly nonexistent posting. Right now, I'd probably be willing to get behind lynches on either VE, Dropula, or (if he doesn't explain his somewhat insane last post in the thread) Eran. :OOOOOOOOOO to reiterate this :OOOOOOOOOO VE- townread townread case is weak case is weak SCUM. Hello?? On August 08 2012 02:06 JingleHell wrote: I've got to say, right now VE is pretty much the number one scumread. Most damning of all, the whole rolefishing thing on Talis. It was really bizarre timing to ask, but if the host actually made roles and names line up (which doesn't seem to be the case), that would just be kind of dumb, making it the core of a case doesn't fly. And then certain things don't line up. Townies don't need to "establish" their innocence, that just happens through proper behavior. Along with everything else, you've pretty much topped my reads for the day. He's morphed into JingleHell's #1 scumread. Excellent. Explanations in the quote above? VE is scum because of the rolefishing thing, and that he said he wanted to establish his innocence, 'along with everything else'. Naturally we're not treated to everything else. This is some seriously weak sauce for calling someone your #1 scumread. JingleHell goes nuts at Broodking: On August 08 2012 02:25 JingleHell wrote: You know what? I'm about fucking sick of this stupid shit. If I had the gall to mention in the thread that I've just finished my newbie games, I bet you people would rip me to shreds over trying to use it as a crutch, but any time someone doesn't like something I say or do, they bring it up. Fuck off. If you want to defend the guy who's been kinda crazy for a while now, that's your call, but don't tell me where to vote. If someone claims scum every single game, even when they're not, does that mean they're never scum? No. It just means they have useful meta for when they play as scum. Anyways, I have my reasons for my vote. I could reiterate what a dozen other people have said, or I could just reference some of the bigger stuff. Seems easier. He 'has his reasons'. He could reiterate what other people have said... but he doesn't even bother. He references 'some of the bigger stuff'. The only thing he referenced so far is rolefishing and VE wanting to prove his innocence. But remember - VE #1 scumread for Jingle. Let's see what happens next. On August 10 2012 01:47 JingleHell wrote: Ok, so I still think VE has a fair shot of flipping scum, but I'd like to propose an alternative to vote. Dropula. So. After JingleHell hasn't pushed VE in any way whatsoever, he now provides an alternative in CountDropula. Why isn't Jingle pushing VE, like AT ALL? On August 10 2012 08:08 JingleHell wrote: I still think he's a strong lynch candidate, for the same reasons I did already, with a mislynch he helped push added on top of it. However, I think that if people aren't interested in VE, CD is also a great target. Nope, absolutely refuses to push VE in any way. This is simply a terrible, terrible bus. VE goes from being a townread with a weak case on him, to being JingleHell's #1 scumread, with barely any explanation. Jingle then does not push for a VE lynch in any way, and instead seeks alternatives in Dropula. This is clear scum play. Inconsistences with talismania and redchecks I made it clear earlier how JingleHell viewed talis as a pretty strong townread after talismania 'convinced' Jingle off Erandorr in their mason chat. Anyhoo, now we have an outed red-check on talismania. Just as a point of reference - I came in to the game thinking talismania was town, and even though there was a redcheck on him, I showed no inclination to lynch talismania whatsoever. That's your comparison, folks. On August 10 2012 13:36 JingleHell wrote: You know, as much as I really never got a scum vibe off you [talis], and as much as your argument here is making sense (with at least quick glimpses at filter for activity), even if we assume miller, having a red check alive at MYLO/LYLO is terrible for reaching critical consensus when the scum numbers are coming so close to townie. I don't want to lynch for information, and I don't want to screw up our odds. But I still want to trust my town read on you. If you can sway enough people on a lynch I'd prefer to get behind, I'll swap my vote up. If you're wrong, we take it as scum confirmation and off you instead. I gave a lot of reasons for my town read on you, and I'm sure that scummy people with an agenda will be targeting me after today's lynch no matter how it goes, since I believe you, so I might as well follow my gut. According to Jingle, talis's arguments makes sense. He reiterates his town-read. But he's setting the scene for voting for talis if necessary - "having a red check alive at MYLO/LYLO is terrible for reaching critical consensus when the scum numbers are coming so close to townie." Most pertinent is what I've bolded, though. Although talis has been pushing VE, which if we recall, JINGLE SUPPOSEDLY COMPLETELY AGREES WITH, Jingle is telling talis that HE has to sway people on another lynch, otherwise he's scum. Why isn't JINGLE defending his townread (talis) and pushing the main scumread of them both, VisceraEyes? On August 11 2012 00:48 JingleHell wrote: Actually, like I already said, unless he presents a truly strong target, like a perfect case, we should still kill him. Unless he's able to prove himself to be worth the gamble of potentially having alive at MYLO/LYLO when he's been redchecked, he's a liability. Jingle basically abandons his town-read on talis in favour of believing the red-check. Weak play from someone we all know is monumentally opinionated and does not back down from their reads. At this stage CD comes out as DT with a redcheck on Zephirdd. On August 11 2012 06:11 JingleHell wrote: I'm not taking my vote off a confirmed redcheck. Even Talis is helping confirm Xsebt. I'm going conspiracy theorist on CD/Lazer scum trying to sneak some crazy shit past us to push a lynch on Zeph right now. I don't believe there's a second DT, this shit seems too crazy to me. At this point Jingle is happily voting to kill his strong town-read, talismania. Note the bold... and then part of a post I quoted just a moment ago: On August 10 2012 13:36 JingleHell wrote: I don't want to lynch for information :OOOOO Finally, Lazer has 'confirmed' CD with his rolename. So we have Xsebt and CD in IDENTICAL positions where each has a townie confirming them (toad / lazer) and each has a redcheck. In both situations the DT is either telling the truth, or he's outing himself and his townie. On August 11 2012 06:17 JingleHell wrote: I know. And it sounds fucking crazy, but so does the setup people are suggesting we have here. Let's face it though, CD also sounds crazy. The only thing making me think it's plausible is the fact that you'd never agree to something insane like that, and you'd probably bus any idiot who ran it behind your back. If there's two DTs, it could explain the seeming excess of Millers, though. We really need to figure out what to do about this. It starts increasing the odds Talis really is a miller, to me, but you know how bad I hate letting a redcheck live. It's a sign of how sold I was on Talis's townieness that I'm even entertaining the notion of not lynching him. So we have TWO redchecks. But it seems Jingle still actually wants to lynch talis and is barely entertaining the thought of Zephirdd. He's entertaining the notion of not lynching talis? You mean... Jingle may take his vote off his townread? Why isn't he all over Zeph like hotcakes?? No, Jingle only votes for Zeph after I lead the voting stream and a bunch of other people vote for him as well. Just wow. Overall: Jingle is dong a poorly executed bus on VE where his townread becomes a scumread with little explanation. He does not push VE, and instead seeks outs (goes after CD instead). He has a townread on talis but is happy to lynch on the redcheck despite his read, and despite inconstencies I have pointed out. He is reluctant to vote for the other redcheck, Zeph, until pushed into it despite the fact he should have been all over it like a rash. I point out what I viewed as an inconsistency with VE back on page 85. Jingle goes nuts at me, and it is now clear why. JingleHell is scum, and we must lynch him today. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 15 2012 23:31 JingleHell wrote: If you want to convince me you're town, go for someone who's actually scummy, or at least make a case against me that doesn't ignore the majority of my filter. I don't give a shit what you think of me. The case speaks for itself. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
You're out of your depth, kid. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 15 2012 23:39 JingleHell wrote: You know what? Go fuck yourself, I'm not taking this shit from anyone who thinks calling me "kid" makes their case stronger. Me calling you kid has nothing to do with my case. It stands for itself. Again, I referenced your logs with talismania re: Erandorr. Learn to read. Anyway, not gonna get into mudslinging. Town, you can see my case for yourselves. You can see scum Jingle squirming like a little bitch. Let's do this. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I sincerely hope scum wins. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 16 2012 17:06 Hier wrote: I'll be honest, I wasn't sold on the JH lynch. Marv's case wasn't helping either; I think he misinterpreted some of JH's quotes. His overall case wasn't all that strong; he just pointed out that JH's opinion changes from time to time as people post more stuff. ... what did I misrepresent, in any way? And you obviously don't understand how changes of opinions are made and presented matters quite heavily. -_- | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 16 2012 15:58 BroodKingEXE wrote: lol then vote for him in the voting thread not me! But seriously how can you tell everyone to vote for JH while voting for me at the same time? because Zentor is by some margin the worst townie ever to play on TL Mafia? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 16 2012 19:03 marvellosity wrote: because Zentor is by some margin the worst townie ever to play on TL Mafia? just because this is a little excessive without explanation - Zentor KNOWS he's being trolly and useless, he's capable of being otherwise, but for some reason decides being trolly and useless is the best way to help everyone else enjoy the game. ... | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
What has Jingle done this cycle? OMGUS'd me, swore at me, called my case bad without trying to refute ANY of it, made some point about his logs showing he hadn't read my case, and what? In short, Jingle has done nothing this cycle that even remotely suggests he is trying to win this game for town. NOTHING. I clearly want to win this game for town. C'mon. Vote JingleHell. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
you are SO pro-town dude it hurts. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I can't remember where I saw it but I also saw Jingle reference at some point that he had to go back through his own filter because he'd forgotten what he said. That's much more likely scum than town. | ||
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