• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:26
CET 21:26
KST 05:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)8Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2162 users

Newbie Mini Mafia XXI - Page 13

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 All
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-29 23:54:52
July 29 2012 23:54 GMT
#1204
Well, D2 demonstrated the power of aggressive town posts. If people are active enough to vote. After I died, I realized that one of (and ONLY one, instead of both or neither) Hapa or Calgar probably was scum, but I really expected Calgar. Hapa does a good job of thinking himself through and sticking to his meta.

False sense of security in scum, good. Obvious breadcrumb, bad. Obvious breadcrumb being completely missed by scum, utterly irrelevant, and trying to use plan Q to WIFOM breadcrumb into a case? Priceless.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 30 2012 00:30 GMT
#1206
To be fair, YH as a confirmed townie is... probably pro-scum.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 30 2012 04:16 GMT
#1223
On July 30 2012 13:13 Critter wrote:
I feel beyond noob having to ask this... but where/what was Jingle's "obvious" breadcrumb? I'm not ashamed that I missed it while following the game, but the fact that I can't find it afterwards is quite embarassing.


It was discussed during the game. Read through my filter for the post where I talked about it? Early D2.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 30 2012 04:34 GMT
#1226
On July 30 2012 13:30 Blazinghand wrote:
No problem dude! Only Calgar and I spotted it-- most people didn't till it was pointed out to them.



And you told me it was too obvious.

Which is when I started coming up with tons of contingency plans for it that had NOTHING to do with the original intent. Never show indecisiveness. Even if you backtrack all over yourself, do it aggressively. It makes you townie. Like Hapa. He stayed assertive and stayed below people's most scummy spot.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 30 2012 14:10 GMT
#1234
On July 30 2012 22:14 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2012 13:34 JingleHell wrote:
On July 30 2012 13:30 Blazinghand wrote:
No problem dude! Only Calgar and I spotted it-- most people didn't till it was pointed out to them.



And you told me it was too obvious.

Which is when I started coming up with tons of contingency plans for it that had NOTHING to do with the original intent. Never show indecisiveness. Even if you backtrack all over yourself, do it aggressively. It makes you townie. Like Hapa. He stayed assertive and stayed below people's most scummy spot.


What was the original plan behind your breadcrumb? I didn't know what to think when you mentioned you were trying to get me NK'd xD


The original plan was to RB Calgar, who I thought was shady.

The notion of "trying" to get you NKed to see if scum were after you came when I was told it was blatantly obvious by BallsinHand. Well, if it's that obvious, how can I use that?

You got to admit, from a contingency plan point of view, it was a good use. Or could have been, had it been actually noticed.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 30 2012 22:35 GMT
#1241
On July 31 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2012 23:10 JingleHell wrote:
On July 30 2012 22:14 Hapahauli wrote:
On July 30 2012 13:34 JingleHell wrote:
On July 30 2012 13:30 Blazinghand wrote:
No problem dude! Only Calgar and I spotted it-- most people didn't till it was pointed out to them.



And you told me it was too obvious.

Which is when I started coming up with tons of contingency plans for it that had NOTHING to do with the original intent. Never show indecisiveness. Even if you backtrack all over yourself, do it aggressively. It makes you townie. Like Hapa. He stayed assertive and stayed below people's most scummy spot.


What was the original plan behind your breadcrumb? I didn't know what to think when you mentioned you were trying to get me NK'd xD


The original plan was to RB Calgar, who I thought was shady.

The notion of "trying" to get you NKed to see if scum were after you came when I was told it was blatantly obvious by BallsinHand. Well, if it's that obvious, how can I use that?

You got to admit, from a contingency plan point of view, it was a good use. Or could have been, had it been actually noticed.


I thought your read (regarding me being not dead) was pretty good, and you might have gotten on the right track had you not stuck to the Me + Calgar scumteam theory. Wasn't too much a fan of the "obviousness" of the breadcrumb though - Jailer's a pretty powerful townie role, and is pretty bad to get a blue role like that shot N2.


Well, yes, like I said, I wasn't expecting people to notice it readily since I was already a prolific poster. Apparently that worked better than BH thought, but since Calgar brought it up, I decided to play that hand instead. I just overdid it a bit, instead of seeing the obvious part that I did later, where only one of you could possibly be scum, or I'd just have turned into a mislynch, since any two of the three of us could have controlled town opinion at that point in the game.

It wasn't until the Wiggles vote that I realized that, though, since both of you being scum might not have been able to turn it into a mislynch on me safely, but you certainly could have sustained the votes on YH into a mislynch and brushed it off easily for a cakewalk D3 mislynch on me.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 31 2012 01:14 GMT
#1245
On July 31 2012 10:08 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
On July 31 2012 07:35 JingleHell wrote:
On July 31 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
On July 30 2012 23:10 JingleHell wrote:
On July 30 2012 22:14 Hapahauli wrote:
On July 30 2012 13:34 JingleHell wrote:
On July 30 2012 13:30 Blazinghand wrote:
No problem dude! Only Calgar and I spotted it-- most people didn't till it was pointed out to them.



And you told me it was too obvious.

Which is when I started coming up with tons of contingency plans for it that had NOTHING to do with the original intent. Never show indecisiveness. Even if you backtrack all over yourself, do it aggressively. It makes you townie. Like Hapa. He stayed assertive and stayed below people's most scummy spot.


What was the original plan behind your breadcrumb? I didn't know what to think when you mentioned you were trying to get me NK'd xD


The original plan was to RB Calgar, who I thought was shady.

The notion of "trying" to get you NKed to see if scum were after you came when I was told it was blatantly obvious by BallsinHand. Well, if it's that obvious, how can I use that?

You got to admit, from a contingency plan point of view, it was a good use. Or could have been, had it been actually noticed.


I thought your read (regarding me being not dead) was pretty good, and you might have gotten on the right track had you not stuck to the Me + Calgar scumteam theory. Wasn't too much a fan of the "obviousness" of the breadcrumb though - Jailer's a pretty powerful townie role, and is pretty bad to get a blue role like that shot N2.


Well, yes, like I said, I wasn't expecting people to notice it readily since I was already a prolific poster. Apparently that worked better than BH thought, but since Calgar brought it up, I decided to play that hand instead. I just overdid it a bit, instead of seeing the obvious part that I did later, where only one of you could possibly be scum, or I'd just have turned into a mislynch, since any two of the three of us could have controlled town opinion at that point in the game.

It wasn't until the Wiggles vote that I realized that, though, since both of you being scum might not have been able to turn it into a mislynch on me safely, but you certainly could have sustained the votes on YH into a mislynch and brushed it off easily for a cakewalk D3 mislynch on me.


You trying to get both of them convinced me that one of them was definitely scum. I really thought it was calgar and iamperfection.
@Hapa, did you really have a train to catch day1?


As a personal stylistic choice, I assume literally every excuse for inactivity is a bald faced lie.

Only legit scum hunting and pro town play can alleviate some of this suspicion- excuses are as easily made by scum as by town, and therefore carry zero meaning whatsoever. Anyone who leans on one has something to hide.

But I'm a paranoid bastard-- don't mind me.


Yeah, like I told Obvious in the obs thread. You don't trust anyone, always be ready to pound someone else if they make a slip. Like Wiggles.

Frankly, if someone looks scummy enough that inactivity looks scummy, you probably have enough case to pressure anyways, and if they look townie enough that inactivity doesn't get questioned, they probably don't need to mention a reason unless it's going to be directly prior to deadline.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 31 2012 01:51 GMT
#1249
On July 31 2012 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:
Regardless, like most things in Mafia, Its not what's true that matters, its who you can convince and what you can prove. Whether or not he was really busy is literally irrelevant IMO.


True story. The mafia know who's who. Everyone else only knows about themselves and flips.

Best solution, never trust anybody. Never make a soft case. Even if a case is weak, make a hard sale. People seemed to think I was overly relentless early, that's actually just because if you back off from a position without a good reason, it's scummy as all hell.

Hapa, can you honestly tell me you wouldn't have had me mislynched in five minutes if I'd been similarly vocal, but with soft pressure instead of the relentless shit I did? Wishy washy, preparing busses, spreading confusion...

The only way to play active town is to be implacable. If you're really town, you should be able to explain most of your motive for actions if you get quizzed on them. That's why scum lurk a lot. Less to explain. But it does lose you the hidden benefit of having provided a town read (assuming you can stay fairly consistent).

Example - If Hapa had tried what Wiggles did, when he did, it would have turned into a last minute 50/50 OMGUS shouting match to see who got lynched. Or just a straight up success for the ploy. 50% from an OMGUS war would have been my BEST odds of living through it.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 31 2012 02:14 GMT
#1251
On July 31 2012 10:57 Probulous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 10:51 JingleHell wrote:
True story. The mafia know who's who. Everyone else only knows about themselves and flips.

Best solution, never trust anybody. Never make a soft case. Even if a case is weak, make a hard sale. People seemed to think I was overly relentless early, that's actually just because if you back off from a position without a good reason, it's scummy as all hell.

Hapa, can you honestly tell me you wouldn't have had me mislynched in five minutes if I'd been similarly vocal, but with soft pressure instead of the relentless shit I did? Wishy washy, preparing busses, spreading confusion...


I have to say I disgree here. By your own logic town don't know who is scum, so pressuring someone and then changing your mind is not a scum tell. There is a fine line between throwing around doubt with no intent to make things clear and changing your read based on responses.

Being relentless in the early game is dangerous because you can implicate townies who just don't know how to respond. In addition you create a situation where it is hard to change your read. I used to play like that, go hard, go early, never let go. But it lead to me lynching townies and letting scum hide. There is nothing wrong with strong pressure but it can be dangerous.

I find scum in the people who immediately agree with my pressure without thinking clearly, also those that don't comment on anything that is happening. It is very rare that my firt pressure target is actually scum.

Thoughts?


Well, I can kind of agree. Day 2 I really got into that stride more, D1 was just a disaster. Partly due to being relentless on slim info, but, let's face it, Obvious's direction shift on D1 sounded incredibly bad. It was actually just a careless play, but it set things into a good position for scum, happening so early D1, it prevented too much need for discussion, and created an early bandwagon.

I think, more than anything, it's just a double edged sword.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 31 2012 02:41 GMT
#1253
I can only assume people say things relatively intentionally. I look for a scum motive, and if it doesn't sound like YourHarry came up with it, I look for supporting things. Yeah, you can make a case on anyone this way, but until you have a reason not to, you probably SHOULD be looking at a case on anyone.

The second you start second guessing your reads under the assumption that it could just be strange or bad play, you've set yourself up for serious WIFOM trouble.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 31 2012 20:22 GMT
#1258
Acro, did your "B" key take a shit by some chance?
Prev 1 11 12 13 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
Swiss - Round 1
Laughngamez YouTube
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:55
FSL s9 Code A & S Championship
Freeedom43
Liquipedia
Big Gabe XPERIONCRAFT
13:00
#3
RotterdaM2947
IndyStarCraft 337
mouzHeroMarine262
Belair 48
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2947
IndyStarCraft 337
mouzHeroMarine 262
PiGStarcraft222
UpATreeSC 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 528
Larva 150
Dewaltoss 124
ZZZero.O 103
Rock 43
GoRush 10
Dota 2
Gorgc4446
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m8076
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox343
Mew2King50
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu504
Other Games
summit1g4703
Grubby4512
FrodaN4030
Beastyqt679
B2W.Neo195
XaKoH 128
ArmadaUGS114
QueenE83
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick61363
EGCTV1071
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 764
Other Games
BasetradeTV35
StarCraft 2
angryscii 28
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 32
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 31
• FirePhoenix12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• HappyZerGling63
League of Legends
• Nemesis3324
Other Games
• imaqtpie2254
• Shiphtur157
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
16h 35m
ByuN vs Percival
Percival vs Rogue
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
Classic vs Rogue
IPSL
23h 35m
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Wardi Open
1d 15h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 20h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
All Star Teams
6 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Proleague 2026-01-10
OSC Championship Season 13
Big Gabe Cup #3
Underdog Cup #3
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.