I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 7

On July 17 2012 06:05 gonzaw wrote:


Can you comment on other issues? What about solstice, S&B, Mattchew, Risen, and all the stuff that was discussed about them?
Of course who you want to lynch is a very important one
(I'd like sciberbia to answer that though, doesn't hurt anybody)

---

About talis:
Before his "plan", I actually found him kind of town. He posted that graph of posts from all his last 5 games to "check his meta", and well that seems like a lot of effort (don't know if he did it in pre-game though). Plus the tone of some of the things he said and just a little gut feeling of the way he interacted with people made me think he was town at that point (and I get a little townie feels right now, although I don't know if I should take them into account or not).

Hmm, the "plan" itself didn't seem scummy in my mind. It did spark some discussion, and to be honest I didn't really see the plan as "the most anti-town thing" in the way that I could see him posting it as town.
His "gauging reactions" is null basically.

The thing is that from that point onwards his play totally decays. He spends way too much time talking about the validity of his "plan", and spends way too much time just prodding Dropbear with the same stuff (Dropbear insta-voting Vivax).
After that he doesn't seem to care in my mind.
Responding to unrelated stuff he never follows (like telling marv about his "nice shit" on solstice, telling Risen to post his thoughts about what I said of him), having an "I don't care" attitude (when he posts thoughts about Milton and austin for instance, and the tone of his posts) and even having that attitude with his reads (like the ones in the post where he voted Dropbear) give me that feeling.

The thing about his play decaying is that it didn't seem like he'd play like that at all once the game started.
Once the game started and he started to have discussions about the setup, and the way he responded to people and stuff I had the feeling he'd keep up with that kind of play the whole game, which is why I didn't find him suspicious.
But having his play decay so fast is worrying, since it makes it seem his "townie early D1" feel was just a façade.


He seems to not care at all at the time of the lynch and after that (I've already posted about this on N1). He doesn't care about lynching Dropbear it seems, he's just there, asking some questions, blending in, doing shit and posting one-liners.

That lack of effort and care about the lynch is damning. I'm trying to think if I'm wrong and he could have done that as town but I don't see many possibilities, specially because of this:



That's the excuse he makes for his behaviour last day.
That's no excuse to not care about the lynch. If he was actually at work refreshing the thread, it only means he doesn't have time to reread stuff (thread+filters), and think too much about things.
That would actually indicate that his play should be more "reactive". As in, if he's constantly refreshing the thread, then his posts should be more of a reaction to what's posted each time he refreshes.
As in, if someone votes Vivax or Dropbear he'd try to react to that, specially if the D1 lynch is at stake and he's just playing like I said he'd be playing.
Even if he started to doubt Dropbear being scum (which he didn't show at all), at least he would have been more "anxious" and "nervous" considering the lynch wasn't decided until 3 minutes before the deadline.
Any townie would be nervous by that point, specially if they were only paying attention to the thread by refreshing it constantly and not reading filters/etc.

I can't see him doing that as town.

Not only that, but his contributions from D2 are him either:
-Just defending himself
-Shitting on Mattchew

The lack of effort is damning as hell. He doesn't even try. Hell he hasn't even posted at all for 24 hours or so I think.

I find it more and more likely that he's scum knowing he was found and just not caring anymore.
I get paranoid that he'd even act like this as town though, but hopefully is not the case.

tl;dr: Talis is scum unless I'm paranoid about him playing like shit as town.

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About solstice I'm not really sure right now since him going against Risen seems legitimate for me, if I have time before leaving I'll reread him.

There seems that a lot of people are treading to a modkill and that's not good.

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I'm leaving right at the deadline (I have to be in uni 30 minutes later), and I don't know if the flip will be "instantaneous" or not so I may not be around when tails flips, and I don't know when I'll come back (at most 3-4 hours from then, but I don't really know).

On July 17 2012 06:15 gonzaw wrote:


That's what made me a little bit paranoid, but the thing is that there is almost no indication that he was frustrated.


Take for instance a town VE going to be misslynched where he ragequits in frustration (basically every time he's town ).
He always makes an initial effort to change the lynch off him, he always tries to at least reason a little bit with the people accusing him; and if he finds his efforts futile, then he quits in frustration.

To quit in frustration it means you actually have to try to be frustrated in the first place, at least by justifying it in-game (if he's frustrated because his cat died and he sees everybody accusing him it would be another thing, but he hasn't said anything about it so I'll disregard it).

I can't see someone quitting in frustration if there is no reason to be so frustrated in the first place, and if the first thing you do is quit before even trying to change the tide of the game (i.e not getting lynched, or hoping to catch some scum even if you are) then you are not likely town at all since no townie would do that.

Also:





These don't look like posts from someone "ragequitting".
He's asking people and supposedly expecting their answers, you don't "ragequit" before you even hear them or acknowledge them.

I don't see him quitting as "frustrated" at all.....but I'm paranoid that he's busy or some shit and doesn't care or something.

Hopefully (like I said) that's not the case, and there are other tiny bits that make me think talis is scum.

On July 14 2012 12:39 gonzaw wrote:
This is just too much. I had him as townie in early game but I can't believe a town Mattchew would do something like this, unless he was somehow hospitalized right after he made that post or something.
Damn, I really thought he was town wtf is going on? :/

On July 15 2012 09:50 gonzaw wrote:
I expect some serious explanation from Mattchew. Like, I thought he was town but what you did made no fucking sense I'm contemplating lynching you just because of it (specially since you went AFK all night just to make a stupid drunk post as well).

On July 16 2012 06:28 gonzaw wrote:
I see Mattchew just came right off the bat with a case and a vote...and I don't know if I like that (I didn't see him explaining wtf he did last day).

On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:

I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something).
I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour.

On July 16 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote:
I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew.
I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it).

I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones.

On July 16 2012 11:45 gonzaw wrote:
About Mattchew:
I may agree with his case on talis (need to filter talis first), but after that he doesn't really do a good job of explaining himself (about his behaviour or why he thinks I'm scum).
I don't like how he's casting suspicion on me right now either, yet refuses to say anything about me or why he changed his town read on me.

However, I could see town Mattchew just not caring about his D1 fluke and thinking I'm shitting up the thread about it (thus making him a little bit more suspicious of me), but those reasons above don't make me confident in thinking he's town at all, specially since I know Mattchew is capable of doing that "fluke" as scum just to skate by D1, whether other people find it scummy or not (he wouldn't really care as scum).

This is why I'm torn on him, and why I wanted that explanation from him.
I would also like an explanation on what he thinks of sciberbia ever since early-D1 and why he changed his mind on me (him not responding these strike me as suspicious as well, since again I can easily see scum Mattchew just not caring about it at this point).

He had a good start that made me think he was town but some of his actions and behaviour made me doubt that (since scum Matthew could have just tried to appear pro-town on early-D1 like that)

On July 17 2012 06:55 gonzaw wrote:
Mattchew wtf those posts you make are so scummy at times. You park your vote on talis, go AFK for the rest of the day and now you show up all "confident" and still lacking words about anything else.

On July 17 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote:
Damn I dunno

Ehm...I think the time is over already, but I wouldn't like a NL but rather lynch Mattchew right now.

On July 17 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote:
Mattchew D3 lynch I say (seemed like bus and you are scummy as fuck)

On July 14 2012 13:32 gonzaw wrote:
About S&B:

I want to lynch this guy tomorrow.

...

Scummy as fuck.

..

Like, he seems too scummy and nothing like his play in MTG (he was more active in discussion there, his posts made more sense, he wasn't this "trollish" and he didn't just post out of nowhere with random stuff?and didn't care about the current discussion, at least not when he was active).

I could see him posting some stuff as town (like asking me about why I'm "not caring" about the setup, flip-flopping on his solstice read in that post seems like he was a townie changing his mind quickly, him backing off keiarth), but his attitude and content convince me otherwise.

On July 15 2012 06:10 gonzaw wrote:
Agh fuck this I can't shake that feeling from the other game and maybe you are genuinely frustrated at me with that vendetta of yours.
If you are town please calm down and put more effort.

On July 16 2012 06:28 gonzaw wrote:
Skimming the thread, I got a weird feeling of solstice going against S&B, but that's maybe because I got a change of mind about S&B and wanted to give him a little break.

On July 14 2012 07:13 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I'm getting the feeling you are town Risen, you are too invested in the game and really care about the lynch, and you are very active at it and act too "cool" around it.
Don't know what Vivax was saying about you being scum, might need to reread.

On July 14 2012 13:02 gonzaw wrote:
It does seem like you are over-enthusiastic townie instead of scum (because scum rarely do what you did and try to take complete control of D1 and be active as shit), but hey!, after your LIII game I won't take any chances with you, and it's possible you'll do this as scum.

On July 17 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote:
Mattchew D3 lynch I say (seemed like bus and you are scummy as fuck)

Risen could be, he hasn't done shit.

On June 07 2012 15:42 gonzaw wrote:
The thing is that when policy lynches haven't been enforced yet in previous games, starting to enforce them in a specific game creates a shitstorm and would most likely murder that game.

Imagine that a certain game starts, and everybody decides to policy lynch lurkers.
So you lynch your 1st lurker on D1. He would be most likely town, but no worries, you think everybody else will stop lurking by now and we solve the problem right?
Wrong, players that lurked until then will keep lurking (or being inactive for stuff from real life), and you'll keep policy lynching them throughout the game, most likely earning scum a win and making the game boring as hell.

Yes, if many games enforced a "lurkers" policy lynch, then the more time goes on the larger the probability of there being fewer and fewer lurkers in games. However that comes with the cost of maybe making each game it's implemented a total chaos, and those (specially town) that play those games want to win them, and they know that by just policy lynching lurkers that isn't achieved so there's less incentive to enforce them.

That was the "Lynch lurkers" policy, if you do the "Lynch blue claims" policy you'll do the same thing since blue claims will still start showing up (hi VE!) and you'll still end up lynching them and them flipping blue, again making the games more boring and shittier for town (or for scum if they wanted to make an epic play or something).


It's like being fat and starting to diet and exercise. You know it's good in the long run, but as soon as you start it you hate it because it ruins everything to you in the present and makes things uncomfortable.


So, is TL Mafia willing to drop weight or not? Maybe someone can spare a liposuction so we avoid this altogether >_>.

On July 16 2012 06:42 gonzaw wrote:


Yes you were, don't lie:

On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:


Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum.
Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch.

On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:


Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out.

Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort.

I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something).
I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour.



That was marv

On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote:


Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well.
What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess

On July 16 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote:


I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew.
I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it).

I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones.

On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote:


If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it).



I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then



I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that.

Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck.

Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well.

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(damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with)

On July 16 2012 11:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, I've been rereading some stuff and I drop my suspicion of austin, I just can't see him as scum at the moment.
Some of that stuff you guys (sciberbia && austin) said makes sense. Plus what I said last night (that S&B's actions did make sense with him being overly frustrated at me, plus his suspicion of solstice and shit) it's likely he's town.

Okay, 2 conundrums resolved, now onto talismania/Dropbear/solstice/Mattchew/Risen/Keirathi

Just by gut feeling without reading those cases (again, sorry really don't have the time, I'm putting lots of effort in that other mafia game....hey if you guys want you can check it out if I link it to you, you can learn one thing or two ) I get the feeling the scum are there and nowhere else.
I haven't checked Milton too much, but I get a feeling he's town, specially because of his stance on talis which he changed after people pointed out how "bad" it was (in the sense that he was only talking about meta).
His case on Dropbear seems legit, since I can't really see him heavily accusing someone that considers him almost confirmed town as scum.

So by process of elimination (sciberbia, S&B, austin, Milton), it leaves those 6, with 3-4 anti town factions (scum+SK), so I think this day will be a good one.

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About Keirathi:
I get the feeling Keirathi is town but I'm not that sure, I wouldn't mind leaving him for later.
Basically, some of what I said earlier applies, in the sense that he didn't really try to scumhunt until being called out (by marv), and those reads seemed pretty bad (specially the one on S&B). After that he spent most of his time defending himself and not really trying to scumhunt. Plus since N1 and D2 I didn't see him do anything constructive at all (hell did he even post in D2?).
His defense of Vivax could have given him town points...but I'm not sure (scum opposing a town misslynch on D1 isn't uncommon at all).

There are little things that make me think he's town (I've explained them already I think), and tiny bits of reaction he made that I don't really see him making as scum. However those reactions were basically the only thing in his filter at some points, and there was very little scumhunting in between.
Now that I look at the tone of his posts it seems townie too me though (gut feeling) so maybe he's likely town

I just noticed this:


So I guess that's the reason he wasn't active.

Hmm, I'm slightly leaning town but I'm not that sure. Just like Risen I need him to actually do something today to solidify my read on him

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I already discussed Risen (I'm waiting for him to come back), and I'll discuss Mattchew a little bit:

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About Mattchew:





I like these since they are concise and give good info. Talis plan was bad and he immediately pointed out without dragging it on. He pointed out the "root" of my accusation and basically agreed with it, even though he was one of the guys I accused (and I mentioned before I wouldn't really expect this from scum Matt, I thought he'd either ignore it or shit on it).

His next posts are good as well, I like how he's not shitting on me and reads me okay by that point (that might be a little biased though ).

He does make contributions that are indeed "concise" and improve town's atmosphere. He even goes to great length to defend Vivax from marv even before the Vivax wagon started. As well as his read on S&B.
So far (assuming S&B is town) that would be a VERY passive game for Mattchew to make as scum, in the sense that he doesn't start shitting and accusing townies left and right, but actually making sense and getting those townies to be recognized as such.

His later posts don't really seem the same way (trying to improve town), yet seem more like slightly irrelevant one-liners. Him defending Dropbear and me does seem townie though.

However, after that he makes his blunder, where he posts asking for the vote count, but doesn't do shit and keeps his vote on sciberbia.
I found this extremely scummy because he WAS active then and as a townie would have cared more about the lynch (and his vote), yet he didn't seem to care.
I find it odd as well how now Mattchew seems to avoid that issue and not give me an explanation at all (was he really busy and in a hurry or was he lurking the thread at that point?) that could completely remove my suspicion on him (well not "completely" but I would disregard it).

I don't like this drunk post at all:



Since I don't know wtf he's saying and why he thinks I'm scum.



Here he posts sober but fails to explain his behaviour last day, even though he should have read that me+marv+others found it suspicious as fuck.

From then he seemed less interested in improving town's atmosphere than early-D1. He didn't explain himself at all, and throughout all N1 didn't do shit.

I may agree with his case on talis (need to filter talis first), but after that he doesn't really do a good job of explaining himself (about his behaviour or why he thinks I'm scum).
I don't like how he's casting suspicion on me right now either, yet refuses to say anything about me or why he changed his town read on me.

However, I could see town Mattchew just not caring about his D1 fluke and thinking I'm shitting up the thread about it (thus making him a little bit more suspicious of me), but those reasons above don't make me confident in thinking he's town at all, specially since I know Mattchew is capable of doing that "fluke" as scum just to skate by D1, whether other people find it scummy or not (he wouldn't really care as scum).

This is why I'm torn on him, and why I wanted that explanation from him.
I would also like an explanation on what he thinks of sciberbia ever since early-D1 and why he changed his mind on me (him not responding these strike me as suspicious as well, since again I can easily see scum Mattchew just not caring about it at this point).

He had a good start that made me think he was town but some of his actions and behaviour made me doubt that (since scum Matthew could have just tried to appear pro-town on early-D1 like that)

---

Holy shit that was long.

Anyways, I do feel solstice+talismania are scum, and well didn't really read on Dropbear yet (or these new cases) so I'll do it shortly.

I don't really know how to decipher the talis/Dropbear situation (if one is scum, or both are scum, etc), but I'll give it a try.

For now I wouldn't oppose a talismania lynch at all by what I've skimmed (plus talismania has basically been useless all late-D1, and all D2 as well).
I don't know if maybe I'd support a solstice lynch better, or if I change my mind and find Dropbear more scummy, but we'll see once I read the thread once and for all!

Stay tuned.

On July 16 2012 11:47 gonzaw wrote:
Fuck it I doubt I'll change my mind about talismania.

##Vote: talismania

Just wanted to get the vote out there for a more "official" standing of what I said before.