EPTHmm...well I need to reread Risen first
I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 4
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gonzaw
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Hmm...well I need to reread Risen first | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 07:24 Risen wrote: Are we allowed to post out-of-thread information in this thread? Like, lets say I see someone posting elsewhere on another forum, but not posting here in thread... can I bring attention to that fact? We used that to catch your buddy Daniel in LIII so I don't see why not (at least no host got angry at us because of it) | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 07:27 Risen wrote: Daniel was modkilled, no idea what you're talking about O_0 Well...we got suspicious of him because of that >_> | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 07:28 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Nvm I see what you're saying. However, this is a private forum type thing and I could very well be lying about it. Here goes. Mattchew logged onto skype during all this. I thought you caught someone posting in another thread I don't know about Skype and "out of forum" stuff though  | ||
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gonzaw
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Can you edit RIsens' post before more people see it? | ||
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gonzaw
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And mine as well...? >_> | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 07:48 strongandbig wrote: gonzaw when do you not want to lynch me, srsly. How about the whole D3 of MTG Mafia? I don't get why you are so hung up on this, I haven't even "tunneled" you nor even voted for you for christ sake, but every time I talk about you you pull out the "Oh gonzaw is FoSing me of course he is" card. Seriously it makes me think you are doing that on purpose to scare me into not accusing you. It's not funny anymore and I don't know why you'd do that as town when you know I wasn't even trying to get you lynched yesterday are you going to start reading the thread soon/ i mean like idk, the fact that you keep refusing to read the setup feels to me like this game is your version of not giving a fuck - you still post a million times per second but the posts are just kind of only tangentially related to the thread. idk, i dont really see you as doing this as scum but could you please at least answer the point? the fact that you did it like four times and never commented on it even when marv and i called you scummy for it, gives me a pretty bad feeling. You mean the C9++ thingy? Yeah, I didn't the OP before posting that (but that "Is there a Sk?" questions was something from the spur of the moment I added very late). but the posts are just kind of only tangentially related to the thread. No they are not. Anyways yes I'll probably go back and read and tell people why I want you killed (damn I want to kill Mattchew just for not giving a shit either....but well his early posting seemed townie so I'm torn, I guess it's possible he was busy or something, but either way it shouldn't be ignored). There's another mafia game I'm playing (in another site) so I'll pay attention to it more these few hours (I'm elected mayor and have to lynch someone and shit), so I'll come back and post something (after reading the thread) tomorrow perhaps | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote: Eh. A no-lynch was worse than the chance that my read on Vivax was wrong. Why didn't you vote Dropbear? When I voted him he was at 5 or 6 I think. | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 04:58 Mattchew wrote: and can we get a vote count? On July 14 2012 04:57 Mattchew wrote: how much time till lynch WTF So Mattchew was active when the whole lynch discussion was going on yet he didn't do shit and didn't even bother on unvoting sciberbia? Wtf? This is just too much. I had him as townie in early game but I can't believe a town Mattchew would do something like this, unless he was somehow hospitalized right after he made that post or something. Damn, I really thought he was town wtf is going on? :/ @Risen: So you are VERY active this day, very confident, spouting whole scumteams, accusing lots of people for defending your scumread (Vivax) and generally being over-confident about it and shit. That seems like a Town VE play (when he plays badly though >_> ). But I can't shake that feeling that you are not actually playing like you said you intended to do. You said you weren't going to call people out and you would be nice, but you didn't seem too nice this last day. Your attitude didn't make me think you'd change your behaviour. Not only that, it seems way too contrasting with your behaviour at the beginning of the game (which was WAY more passive), and that reminds me of LIII where you did something very similar (you were "passive" and shit, but after being called out you started being aggressive and playing to your town meta). You are not that aggressive this time, but there are similarities in your play which make me not go fully with a "Risen is town" feel. Any explanation for this or something to say? | ||
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gonzaw
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Everytime someone tried to defend Vivax you jumped and accused them. You prevented people from even discussing Vivax being town, and basically prevented any discussion on someone other than Vivax. You forced every post you had about Vivax on everybody's throat, specially that bad PBPA case you made (I skimmed it and it seemed bad, specially when you quoted lots of his posts and didn't say anything basically). It does seem like you are over-enthusiastic townie instead of scum (because scum rarely do what you did and try to take complete control of D1 and be active as shit), but hey!, after your LIII game I won't take any chances with you, and it's possible you'll do this as scum. The only way to know for sure is to see how you are going to react after this. So Risen, what do you plan to do now? You spouted lots of "scumteams" like solstica+marv+austin+some other guys without conviction and everything was based around VIvax; so who do you think is scum now? Take your time, we have all this night phase to determine that. I just don't want to risk you being scum and doing the same thing on other townies and getting them all lynched and trying to WIFOM your way out of being suspected like you did on LIII. I'll post my thoughts on the other players, but so far I'm getting a little suspicious of talis and austin (austin not so much though), and getting the feeling keriathi is townie. However the talis and keirathi feels are connected to Dropbear mostly. If Dropbear is scum I think its likely both are town, but if Dropbear is town then talis seems suspicious but I can't really tell about keirathi. Keirathi basically defending Vivax and not wanting to vote him and sticking to Dropbear as well seemed townie. Him being around after the lynch and talk about some stuff gave me good vibes as well. It's not definitive though, but I find other people more suspicious now I'm not that sure about austin. Some of his posts (like his vote on solstice) seemed pretty scummy to me, but I kind of just took into account what I read from the point I left until now and not the rest (because of what solstice/sciberbia said I started to think he was town) so I'll reread that later to make a better read on austin. I'll post about talis and S&B in a next post | ||
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gonzaw
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Him appearing sporadically ever since, posting some irrelevant stuff and one-liners don't make me feel any good. Not only that he seemed to purposefully ignore the Vivax issue at all when he was active. Basically, he "seeemed" pro town before this post: On July 14 2012 04:39 talismania wrote: ok I'm back from experiments what's going on here Riven v Vivax and Milton and austin changed their minds is all I see skimming through. But after that his play crumbled. He spent a little time responding to Dropbear (more like responding to Dropbear's criticism though). On July 14 2012 06:00 talismania wrote: @risen I don't know what to make of the risen v vivax to be honest. I liked your case against him but I'm still stuck on dropbear. and if dropbear is scum I can't see vivax being scum either. mmm I better not be tunneling again like I did last time to HiroPro. Completely removal from the current town discussion and just tries to stay on his little own world of him FoSing Dropbear and that's it. That seemed suspicious After that he just seems to be "there"; not doing anything basically On July 14 2012 06:41 talismania wrote: Lol are you trying to see how much of this stuff you can get away with or something? This post raised some flags because how out of context it was (regarding talis' previous posts), and how sudden and weird. Marv was being a pain in the ass to me (admit it >_> ) basically since the game started so him getting pissed about it made sense. But talis never made any comment about me "going on about the setup" and shit, so what the hell does he mean when he says that? There's no context (like with marv) where I know how talis thinks about me. Wtf is "how much of this stuff you can get away with"? What stuff? This seemed very out of place. Again, there was a Vivax vs Dropbear discussion going on and him posting this instead of trying to contribute to that discussion, he comes out of nowhere with an out of place post that doesn't do shit (it seriously reminds me of what S&B is doing this game, but I'll get to that later). After that it's just a bunch of pointless one-liners about not wanting to switch and shit. Like...they don't convince me at all; we are minutes before the lynch and he only has time to post some useless oneliners. What about the informative posts he made at the beginning of the game? Where the hell are those? This change in his play make me suspicious of him. ...however if Dropbear is scum it kinds of makes me doubt this suspicion as well (since that seemed a way too risky bus, since Dropbear COULD have been lynched). ....hmm, I'm starting to think that Dropbear might have been town after all and scum didn't really care about this lynch since it was between 2 townies. But I'll leave that out in the air and not dwell too much on that, Dropbear doesn't seem too townie to me and could easily be scum, but trying to make sense of this situation is kind of hard. Oh well shit I'll make a post about S&B next (this took a while) | ||
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gonzaw
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I want to lynch this guy tomorrow. I've already posted some shit about his earlier posts (fluff and stuff) I don't like how he's accusing me, discrediting me and flinging shit at me every time he can. The worst thing is that it has only to do with setup talk. That's the only thing he's posting about me when he's accusing me, here: On July 13 2012 22:51 strongandbig wrote: "How many scum are there? Four?" "There are PMs this game right guys? PM me!" "is there an SK this game?" ... making me think you're scum here man On July 13 2012 23:05 strongandbig wrote: ......... man seriously. what are you doing. and I know what you were trying to say ("we can reverse engineer wbg's setup randomizer or something and know how many scum there are") but since we don't know the setup randomizer that's also totally pointless. On July 14 2012 00:55 strongandbig wrote: Dude just stop - WBG will not post the randomizer, he's said, so as to preserve its integrity. There is a 50% chance of there being an SK, it doesn't matter how many VTs there are. PEOPLE, WILL YOU PLEASE STOP TRYING TO GAIN INFORMATION FROM THE MAFIASCUM C9++ SETUP. THIS SETUP IS DIFFERENT AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN CHANGED. WE CANNOT GAIN ANY USEFUL INFORMATION FROM THE MAFIASCUM C9++ SETUP! As for your question I'm at work still so no deep thoughts yet - I'm inclined to give Risen the benefit of the doubt for a few days at least, since he has a good motivation to try to change his town play. Nothing on dropbear right now I'll try and reread his filter later. He only finds me suspicious because of the setup talk; and it's bullshit. Not only that but I already said he was way too overdramatic and "trying to be pro-town" with that last post of his. On July 14 2012 06:52 strongandbig wrote: of course he's not here he's in australia it's like four am like there are decent reasons to vote for him but that's not one of them i want everyone to seriously consider gonzaw for lynch tomorrow. Again I don't like these accusations he has of me (he has mentioned 0 substance on why I'm scum). What's more, I don't like this "grudge" he has about me based on my play on MTG mafia (which he still refuses to explain). That "grudge" seems fake as hell. Every time I accuse him he acts all frustrated and posts "gonzaw you are always accusing me you are posting like a toilet, etc" I already posted before that this seems fake, since there is NO indication for him to be that frustrated at me (seriously, check my filter and find any reason why he would be that frustrated, or why he would be this frustrated instead of Keirath or Dropbear whom I actually "tunneled" more than him, hell I never even voted S&B). However he always finds the time to post that when I accuse him, and he just disregards everything I say with that. That seems like an obvious attempt to reflect attention, I can't accuse him of anything since he posts "oh you are accusing me again", acts like I'm tunneling him for no reason similarly to other games, and just drops the subject Scummy as fuck. His defense didn't seem "townie" at all since he was needlessly aggressive: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=15#292 It reminded me of Risen's defense on LIII, where i accused him and he acted all offended, aggressive and mighty and call me shit and stuff (Risen was scum there). Oh wait I'm not done. I'll say that S&B FoSed Keirathi initially, and then backed off him and that seems townie. Yet he can still do it as scum so I won't take it into account (based on all the rest scummy stuff he did). On July 14 2012 04:50 strongandbig wrote: so the vast majority of krathi's filter reads pretty scummy to me still, but him calling out derpberp for calling him town puts me in enough doubt that i dont really want to nuke him yet ##unvote i was leaning townie on risen because of his trolovote on vivek, it seemed town - but now that i reread his filter there are a few things that give me pause. specifically, his "i hunt for whole scum teams" thing is pretty turr'ble - he says "it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team", which seems to be missing the point of scumhunting as a townie. i think a townie would be talking about "easy to find scum" not "easy to make cases". i also dont like how focused he is on defending himself by making a case on someone else instead of actually answering the cases against him. that said, I don't think that his inactivity makes him scummy, since he could just have lurked if he was lurky scum instead of promising future activity. at the moment i'm waiting to see a bit more from him, we have like two and a half hours left. im also leaning scum on vivek because of how he kept backing off of someone as soon as they defended themselves a little bit. theres a bunch of other people who are kinda-sorta scummy, like gonzaw for his "trolololo i didnt read the setup" herpderp, marv for me not being able to read him anyway, and austin for that stuff about him and tali i talked about earlier. for now ##vote: vivax as for solstice it's not like I think he's super townie or anything, but i'm not sold on him being scum; asking questions can imply your opinions sometimes actually wait that's a lie. i just read his filter from lvi and from noob17, and in both of those he asks questions a bunch but they feel more insightful than the ones he asks here, and he posts opinions interspersed with the questions. Plus if marv just caught a scum d1 it would mean hes probably town making my life easier (that's not true at all marv's meta is 100% to kill his teammates and we would learn nothing about him). ##unvote ##vote s0lstice umm, vivax consider yourself pressured or whatever. The tone of this post seems way too weird to me. With phrases like "trololol", the way he phrases stuff, etc don't make me think he's paying too much attention to the game or cares too much about it (if you disagree with this doesn't matter just ignore it). His reads seem way too weird as well, and he doesn't really back them up at all (his read on me, vivex, etc). His vote on solstice is very bad: i just read his filter from lvi and from noob17, and in both of those he asks questions a bunch but they feel more insightful than the ones he asks here, and he posts opinions interspersed with the questions. He's using meta ALONE about something IRRELEVANT (he asks "more insightful questions" when he's town, and he's "asking questions" here....how the hell is that relevant?) It may seem like he did this post in a rush and was just reading stuff, thinking solstice was town, then rereading his filter and thinking he was scum and didn't have time to actually say why, but I don't really buy it. I already mentioned something about him in that talis post. He then posts sporadically and not interested in any discussion or being part of them at all. On July 14 2012 06:08 strongandbig wrote: im willing to vote austin but marv what do you think about sol now? still scum but less sure than austin, or are you doubting your earlier read on him? I mean, he comes out of nowhere to manipulate marv into going against solstice again On July 14 2012 06:47 strongandbig wrote: ##unvote ##vote vivax lets do this Nice ninja-vote there that sealed Vivax's fate. Like, he seems too scummy and nothing like his play in MTG (he was more active in discussion there, his posts made more sense, he wasn't this "trollish" and he didn't just post out of nowhere with random stuff and didn't care about the current discussion, at least not when he was active). I could see him posting some stuff as town (like asking me about why I'm "not caring" about the setup, flip-flopping on his solstice read in that post seems like he was a townie changing his mind quickly, him backing off keiarth), but his attitude and content convince me otherwise. Sorry if this was long but I had a LOT of things to say about S&B | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 13:31 DropBear wrote: Oh wow how did I get so many votes? Sorry Vivax, but you did meander around a lot. I'm not keen on posting reads at night, too many WIFOM possibilities. I don't expect to be shot anyway due to the whole nearly getting lynched thing so I'll see the survivors in the morning. I'd really like you posting stuff and shit to convince me you are town (if you are). I think I'll get shot tonight (well I'm always shot N1, except when I'm playing with Ace), but even then I want to make the most accurate reads with the most possible info, so before dying town can take my words into account. Posting your thoughts on what I just posted about talis/S&B would be nice for instance. | ||
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gonzaw
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It's also a chance for other people to confirm themselves as town, or another chance to catch more scum (that way time is not wasted). I dunno....I won't start a giant argument why discussing at night is helpful though | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 14 2012 14:18 Mattchew wrote: Hey guys I'm. Little drunk right nowzzzz but I want to lynch Gonzaw tlmmore cause his shoot is so lo g but bad and he acts likes it good... Off he thinks vivid I'd scum he's dumber than anywenbeebebe I did use the "posts drunk-> is town" heuristic on Prome and S&B in MTG......but dude that doesn't really work in your favor right now. | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 15 2012 03:02 strongandbig wrote: I'm still at a loss to explain why gonzaw aggressively refused to read the thread and kept asking questions about setup, it just doesn't make sense from either a scum or town perspective. As far as I know I only asked 2 questions, the "Is there a SK?" one and the "Is this plurality lynch?" one. In the 1st one I was half-joking kind of, and was lazy to reread the OP (I put it in the post right before posting it). I knew this was like C9++ but I forgot how the SK was chosen, so maybe there was a high chance of SK or something (mind you I thought all this in like 3 seconds). I realised I derped afterwards. After that I didn't "ask questions" but post my thoughts about reverse-engineering the setup. In the 2nd one I was in a great hurry since there were only 30 minutes left and I didn't want to waste time rereading the OP at all (I had like 7 pages to read). This looks eerily similar to your "case" against Grey last game (MTG Mafia)......but to be honest you were town there so I don't even know what to think about it :/ (you tend to make "bad" cases like this apparently, which makes it hard to figure out when you do them on purpose as scum). | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 15 2012 03:17 strongandbig wrote: - I get frustrated. You post these walls of text super often and they're all accusing me. It's like I can't post anything without having to defend myself against a bad case from you. I made a wall of text accusing like 3-4 guys and I didn't even vote for you wtf are you talking about? How can you get frustrated just by having 1 guy FoS you? That's impossible. If you are town, take a deep breath, relax, put some soothing music and calm the fuck down; this anti-town "frustrated and angry" persona you have this game doesn't help anybody at all. - I don't understand how you call me "being needlessly aggressive" a scum tell. Sure, I'm being aggresive towards you, because I don't want to deal with you dominating the game again like in mtg, and I don't want every post I make to have to be about my relationship towards you. Trying to shit things up and being instantly confrontational and disruptive when accused is not a town trait (again, I posted an example of someone doing the EXACT SAME THING as scum and it worked in his favour back then, meaning it's an used scum tactic). - i don't give a fuck what you think about the "tone" of my posts. I'm fucking tired a lot during the week and I'm not going to fancy shit up for you. That doesn't help at all. How the hell do you plan on "establishing your innocence" (something you said was the most important thing townies should do, which implies you'll try to do that yourself) if don't care shit about what you post and how, and you don't give a shit about what other people think of you and flipping your shit at people? - how did I not back my reads up? My reasoning is right there. Sometimes being concise is useful, man. I could have written several paragraphs saying "vivak is scummy because he keeps accusing people then backing off of them very quickly." Instead I said it in one sentence. That's being "too" concise to the point you don't say anything interesting and make it impossible for people to figure out your intentions, specially if you vote people based on only that. It's fucking easy as scum to state a one-liner and vote someone because of that, it needs no effort whatsoever other than just briefly skimming someone's filter to find what one-liner to say. It shows lack of effort, not being "concise". Okay, I'll give it to you that it may have been a good reason to vote for him (had you expanded on it), but it doesn't tell me shit about your alignment other than that "lacks effort" bit from above - I really don't understand this part from you. This makes me think you're scum. How do you not see that "asking questions about irrelevant things" and "asking questions that could help reveal alignment" are different? And more importantly, in those other games he posted opinions whereas in this one he didn't. This point feels manufactured (and tbh I think some of the other points in here seem manufactured too. If you're town man you don't need to post a ginormous case like this every time, you can just post the things that you actually think and that actually make sense). "my attitude convinces you i'm scum" I don't even understand what this means. I guess you mean my attitude towards you this game? Well, I think I explained that above but let me be a little more clear here: I think you ruined MTG mafia because you posted obsessively, and by sheer weight of posts (as well as the fact that a lot of the players there were newbs and that half the vets were scum) you managed to bully the thread into obsessing over whoever you were suspicious of - even though your suspicions were wrong, and (I thought) obviously so. I found that really frustrating, so I'm sorry but for the next while that I play with you I'm going to call your stupid bs out as clearly as I can. Saying that in one game he was town he "asked more insightful questions" than this game doesn't mean shit if you justify it for a vote. I didn't really think he was "asking questions about irrelevant things" to be honest, and I don't know wtf you are talking about about "more insightful questions". Just by that alone it's a total bullshit reason since I don't get what "asking more insightful questions" has anything to do with anybody's alignment or how it even works (what do you consider "insightful question"?). I didn't take into account the "post opinions" thing since I didn't see the relevance either. Hmm....*sigh* okay I'll give one thing to you, I'm rereading solstice's filter and he doesn't really "post opinions". But if you are going to make an argument that justifies a vote on solstice instead of a vote on Vivax/Dropbear/someone else based on meta and his play in another game then post some reasoning and quotes from it, saying "he asks insightful questions and posts opinions, here he doesn't, ##vote: solstice" again makes me think you don't give a shit about the game, you skimmedthrough another game of his and tried to find the easiest thing to accuse him of and come up with a bullshit reason to justify your vote. Agh fuck this I can't shake that feeling from the other game and maybe you are genuinely frustrated at me with that vendetta of yours. If you are town please calm down and put more effort. Speaking of which S&B, what do you think of Mattchew, talismania and what was said before? | ||
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gonzaw
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On July 15 2012 06:07 marvellosity wrote: you asked how many scum there were earlier in the game too, and then that PM business. Reading the OP to find out what kind of lynch it is is 10x quicker than typing out the question and waiting for the response. It IS extremely annoying when you already post a shit-tonne and you include crap like that when you can just read the thread instead. I did skim the OP a little bit but didn't found that part so I made that question afterwards. After making that question and you shitting on me about it I spent like 2-3 minutes trying to figure out where it said "its majority rule" I forgot it was under "Voting rules", I thought there would be a "Voting: This follows the majority bla bla bla" section under the "Spam", "Inappropiate Posts" ,etc one >_> About the scum question I think wbg posted the "this follows the C9++ setup" thing in the OP after I read it when I signed up; and posted it in the thread after I was away and came back to start the game so I didn't notice it (I went directly to the Day 1 post ignoring the Pre-game ones). Anyways yeah I may have derped there, but is this really that important? If you guys want to discuss other things about my play that are relevant to the game then sure, but this seems pointless | ||
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