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austinmcc:
I'll ignore his 1st post since it has nothing worthwhile in it.
On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw?
Big fluffy post. Like talis said, he seems to "add" something to the "talis' plan is bad" discussion....but he doesn't add much at all.
Saying it will clog up the thread is not news, and Mattchew and others said what was wrong with the plan before.
The worst thing is he makes a great deal out of it by basing his whole post on that part.
I say basing his "whole" post because his 2nd paragraph is like the biggest pile of fluff ever. Did you really need to post so much just to ask "What do you guys think of gonzaw's scum play?" or something?
Like...your whole post could be reduced to "tali's plan is bad and I want to know how you guys catch gonzaw as scum", which means your post is SOLELY filler, and as you can see that statement alone doesn't contribute anything about the game either.
Really...that post is pretty bad.
On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote:Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan
(for those who care) marvellosityOn July 12 2012 08:54 marvellosity wrote:On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). nonext On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over)
I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons.
Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense.
Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan!
People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. austinmccOn July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning.Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Talis, underlined portions of Marv's posts are what I interpret as his reactions to your plan. Underlined portions of mine are my reaction that I wrote. Two things. One, Show nested quote +He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all.
this. If you think I'm just "expanding on" marv, that IS adding something. Otherwise Marv's initial "no" is it, and EVERYONE who disagreed is just "expanding on no." Two, here WAS new content, specific scenarios that I noted your plan could lead to, which I think are bad and weren't mentioned by others: - someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion
- we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning
The first scenario is bad because a really good plan is going to end up "follow this or get lynched." Look at the pick your power games, liar game, etc. With your plan, we'd have to derail the thread from scumhunting and have a policy discussion later in the game about whether someone who didn't follow "the plan," didn't post 3 suspicions, was scummy or just wasn't suspicious of 3 people. Not posting 3 cases wouldn't be alignment-indicative, so we couldn't just lynch them. There'd have to be discussion of that, which would gunk up the thread. That's the full thought process behind that point. As to the second point I made, having players*3 cases in the thread could lead us to a situation where we were lynching based on case quantity and not case quality. Oh, 70% of people are suspicious of X, so we lynch him. Even if he was most people's third choice, and we had a few folks highly suspicious of Y. Ta da. Overall, I think your plan is bad if you want us to follow, and still bad if you want to gauge reactions to it. You got responses from a little more than half the thread, which is alright, but you need a plan that SOME people want if you're going to actually generate "discussion." You got reactions, but not actual discussion. People weren't weighing the pros and cons of the plan, people were just saying no to it. That doesn't get you the sort of interactions that I want to draw conclusions from, because nobody gains town OR scum points for being the 5th or 6th person to pooh pooh a plan that nobody likes.
I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote:
I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:
I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:25 Risen wrote:
I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this"
I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts.
Talking about bad posts.
That 1st part is absolutely unnecessary. He keeps talking about tali's plan and tali's accusation of him, but why?
Talis said that austin was suspicious because he didn't add much about his criticism of his plan before.....so why did he feel the need to explain everything about how bad that plan is after being called out?
Talis didn't tell him "you are suspicious because you can't find reasons why my plan is bad", so why did he spend like 4 paragraphs and a wall of text to explain so?
Even more importantly....why does it matter? How could heavily debating why tali's plan was bad (even after 90% had already stated why) be any helpful at all? It just clutters things up and makes your post look big, and of course it just makes it so you appear active and contributing when you haven't done shit until then.
The 2nd part is equally bad:
I'm more interested in Risen though
He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said.
WTF!!??
So the player you find most interesting is one you think is town?
Also I don't get it, he seems to accuse Risen of many things, but then says he thinks he's town, but then he keeps accusing Risen. That seems very inconsistent, what does he actually think of Risen?
If he thought Risen was town...why waste his post on posting his thoughts on someone he thinks is town? Why not ignore it and post about someone he thinks is scum?
As you can see...later he never posts anything at all about who he thinks is scum, nothing. Just like S&B's accusation of austin, austin accuses Risen but never mentions him later (albeit he didn't have that many posts).
That seems fishy as fuck.
Strong&Big
On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote:Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET.
Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] +The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that.
NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you.+ Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy.
I fully agree with Mattchew here:
On July 12 2012 22:39 Mattchew wrote:
Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak.
S&B gets very defensive at being called "active lurker", and says he wants to "establish his innocence" but he's not doing anything like that at all.
Check the next posts in his filter, it's just him bickering against marv about the "balance" issue (that has nothing to do with the game).
The next thing he does is make half-assed accusations he never seems to follow through:
On July 12 2012 23:35 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 22:39 Mattchew wrote:
Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak.
Sorry bro, but that's kind of the nature of the game I guess - any post could be made either by scum or by town? Do you have any suggestions as to how to be more townie? Meanwhile, I feel like there's something to be read in Gonzaw's post about Derpbear - I'm just not sure what. Dropbera accuses Gonzaw of tryharding overmuch, when he's just Gonzawing - then Gonzaw attacks him in a way that I'm pretty sure either exaggerates or straight up mischaracterizes dropper's tiny filter. hmmmmmmmmmmm...... I'll think some more about this later tonight. Gonzaw, have you and DropBurp ever played together before?
On July 13 2012 01:54 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote:On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote:Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan
(for those who care) marvellosityOn July 12 2012 08:54 marvellosity wrote:On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). nonext On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over)
I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons.
Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense.
Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan!
People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. austinmccOn July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning.Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Talis, underlined portions of Marv's posts are what I interpret as his reactions to your plan. Underlined portions of mine are my reaction that I wrote. Two things. One, He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all.
this. If you think I'm just "expanding on" marv, that IS adding something. Otherwise Marv's initial "no" is it, and EVERYONE who disagreed is just "expanding on no." Two, here WAS new content, specific scenarios that I noted your plan could lead to, which I think are bad and weren't mentioned by others: - someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion
- we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning
The first scenario is bad because a really good plan is going to end up "follow this or get lynched." Look at the pick your power games, liar game, etc. With your plan, we'd have to derail the thread from scumhunting and have a policy discussion later in the game about whether someone who didn't follow "the plan," didn't post 3 suspicions, was scummy or just wasn't suspicious of 3 people. Not posting 3 cases wouldn't be alignment-indicative, so we couldn't just lynch them. There'd have to be discussion of that, which would gunk up the thread. That's the full thought process behind that point. As to the second point I made, having players*3 cases in the thread could lead us to a situation where we were lynching based on case quantity and not case quality. Oh, 70% of people are suspicious of X, so we lynch him. Even if he was most people's third choice, and we had a few folks highly suspicious of Y. Ta da. Overall, I think your plan is bad if you want us to follow, and still bad if you want to gauge reactions to it. You got responses from a little more than half the thread, which is alright, but you need a plan that SOME people want if you're going to actually generate "discussion." You got reactions, but not actual discussion. People weren't weighing the pros and cons of the plan, people were just saying no to it. That doesn't get you the sort of interactions that I want to draw conclusions from, because nobody gains town OR scum points for being the 5th or 6th person to pooh pooh a plan that nobody likes.
I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote:
I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:
I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. On July 12 2012 15:25 Risen wrote:
I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this"
I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts. I'm getting some seriously bad vibes from the first half of this post - it seems like there's way too much detail responding to Talis's "you copied marv" thing, when one or two sentences would do. (and when I'm telling you you put too much detail into a post, you've got a problem.) Then you jump back into actually arguing about whether or not the plan is a good idea, which even tali has moved on from.
I don't see a vote, I don't see him trying to get other people's thoughts on them, and most importantly I don't really see him as actually interested in pressuring those people...he just seems to softly accuse them and nothing else.
For instance take his austin "accusation".....does he think austin is scum or not? Like...what does he conclude?
He just calls him out on something, but we don't know if he's accusing him or pressuring him or whatever, since he doesn't follow up on it later at all.
For claiming he's trying to "establishing his innocence" he's doing a very bad job, he makes a fluffy post about "balance" and about "keeping an eye on marv", then keeps cluttering up the thread with that "balance" issue, then makes half-assed accusations against me+austin.
Keirathi:
On July 12 2012 08:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +sciberbia wrote:
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
I'm not convinced that masons, millers, or roleblockers should claim, but I've never played in a setup quite like this before and I haven't thought much about it. I'll read up on the issue and see if I agree with you guys.
Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance. That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one. As far as claims, I myself haven't played in a game where masons/roleblockers claimed, so I'll have to look into it, but I agree with the points made about RB'ers so far, so that at least makes sense. An unclaimed miller causes more confusion than its worth though, and I can't really think of a situation in which a miller wouldn't want to claim.
This post seems a very "I'm trying to contribute here!" one. Spends WAY too much time talking about lurkers and policies, and doesn't even take any interesting stance in the mason/RBer issue (i.e if he had an interesting stance it would be actually a contribution). He just spouts some fluffy stuff about them that only serves to make his post bigger
solstice called him out as "verbose" (which was right):
On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote:
Keirathi, assuming you are still around...
why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said.
Yet he keeps doing the same thing. He's still "verbose", and his post doesn't contribute shit at all. He says "I'm verbose because of something irrelevant" and "Rehash of what other people said".
Not only that, he acknowledges himself that he's rehashing what other people said....yet that doesn't prevent him from posting it and doesn't prevent him from trying to find something else to contribute.
His other posts don't call too much attention, yet then he comes out of nowhere with this:
On July 13 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing:+ Show Spoiler +since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time? It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways?
...????
This is so out of place it's not funny. Like, Vivax had 2 votes on him and a case against him, some other FoSes were flowing around (marv on S&B at first, then Vivax on Mattchew, etc); yet when Kei posts he thinks it's more useful to discuss tali's plan again?
Not only that, but discuss something so pointless and irrelevant like tali's "motive" for making the plan because it was "half-assed" or some shit?
Like....he completely ignored everything else in the thread, wtf?
Now here's my dilemma:
Who the fuck do I vote? I want all 3 dead 
Hmm, I think austin+Keirath are more likely scum than S&B, but I guess Keiarth could be just noob and plays like this because he's noob, so lets go with this.
##Vote: austinmcc
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EBWOP:
Well fuck, "Keirathi" is centered but the others 2 are not >_>
Disregard that, I just forgot to center the 1st two, it's not that Keirath is more scum than those 2 or anything 
Anyways I'm spent, you guys discuss all you want now. You can't say "things are going slow" now though
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On July 13 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:
Still reading, but one thing on austin:
"He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said."
Here, as I read it, he was summarizing what Risen had said and pointing out how wishy washy it was. He was not giving his own view on Risen.
This makes a pretty big difference.
I don't remember Risen saying something like that (that Dropbear is likely town)
In fact if you look at this paragraph:
Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts.
It seems more like him encouraging Risen to contribute more than actually (for instance the bolded bits). That makes me think he actually said he thought Risen was town.
Even if he didn't explicitly say it, that last paragraph and his whole "accusation" of Risen still is weird as hell. He accuses Risen of posting some "fluff" and "not trusting his reads", but then he gives him advice and posts some weird stuff like "dunno, being wrong as a townie is plenty forgivable".
What the hell is that? And how does it help town hunt scum this game?
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On July 13 2012 06:07 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 05:46 gonzaw wrote:austinmcc:I'll ignore his 1st post since it has nothing worthwhile in it. On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Big fluffy post. Like talis said, he seems to "add" something to the "talis' plan is bad" discussion....but he doesn't add much at all. Saying it will clog up the thread is not news, and Mattchew and others said what was wrong with the plan before. The worst thing is he makes a great deal out of it by basing his whole post on that part. I say basing his "whole" post because his 2nd paragraph is like the biggest pile of fluff ever. Did you really need to post so much just to ask "What do you guys think of gonzaw's scum play?" or something? Like...your whole post could be reduced to "tali's plan is bad and I want to know how you guys catch gonzaw as scum", which means your post is SOLELY filler, and as you can see that statement alone doesn't contribute anything about the game either. Really...that post is pretty bad. On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote:On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote:Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan
(for those who care) marvellosityOn July 12 2012 08:54 marvellosity wrote:On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). nonext On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over)
I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons.
Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense.
Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan!
People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. austinmccOn July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning.Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Talis, underlined portions of Marv's posts are what I interpret as his reactions to your plan. Underlined portions of mine are my reaction that I wrote. Two things. One, He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all.
this. If you think I'm just "expanding on" marv, that IS adding something. Otherwise Marv's initial "no" is it, and EVERYONE who disagreed is just "expanding on no." Two, here WAS new content, specific scenarios that I noted your plan could lead to, which I think are bad and weren't mentioned by others: - someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion
- we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning
The first scenario is bad because a really good plan is going to end up "follow this or get lynched." Look at the pick your power games, liar game, etc. With your plan, we'd have to derail the thread from scumhunting and have a policy discussion later in the game about whether someone who didn't follow "the plan," didn't post 3 suspicions, was scummy or just wasn't suspicious of 3 people. Not posting 3 cases wouldn't be alignment-indicative, so we couldn't just lynch them. There'd have to be discussion of that, which would gunk up the thread. That's the full thought process behind that point. As to the second point I made, having players*3 cases in the thread could lead us to a situation where we were lynching based on case quantity and not case quality. Oh, 70% of people are suspicious of X, so we lynch him. Even if he was most people's third choice, and we had a few folks highly suspicious of Y. Ta da. Overall, I think your plan is bad if you want us to follow, and still bad if you want to gauge reactions to it. You got responses from a little more than half the thread, which is alright, but you need a plan that SOME people want if you're going to actually generate "discussion." You got reactions, but not actual discussion. People weren't weighing the pros and cons of the plan, people were just saying no to it. That doesn't get you the sort of interactions that I want to draw conclusions from, because nobody gains town OR scum points for being the 5th or 6th person to pooh pooh a plan that nobody likes.
I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote:
I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:
I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. On July 12 2012 15:25 Risen wrote:
I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this"
I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts. Talking about bad posts. That 1st part is absolutely unnecessary. He keeps talking about tali's plan and tali's accusation of him, but why? Talis said that austin was suspicious because he didn't add much about his criticism of his plan before.....so why did he feel the need to explain everything about how bad that plan is after being called out?Talis didn't tell him "you are suspicious because you can't find reasons why my plan is bad", so why did he spend like 4 paragraphs and a wall of text to explain so? Even more importantly....why does it matter? How could heavily debating why tali's plan was bad (even after 90% had already stated why) be any helpful at all? It just clutters things up and makes your post look big, and of course it just makes it so you appear active and contributing when you haven't done shit until then. The 2nd part is equally bad: I'm more interested in Risen though He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. WTF!!?? So the player you find most interesting is one you think is town? Also I don't get it, he seems to accuse Risen of many things, but then says he thinks he's town, but then he keeps accusing Risen. That seems very inconsistent, what does he actually think of Risen? If he thought Risen was town...why waste his post on posting his thoughts on someone he thinks is town? Why not ignore it and post about someone he thinks is scum? As you can see...later he never posts anything at all about who he thinks is scum, nothing. Just like S&B's accusation of austin, austin accuses Risen but never mentions him later (albeit he didn't have that many posts). That seems fishy as fuck.
Strong&BigOn July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote:Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET.
Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] +The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that.
NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you.+ Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. I fully agree with Mattchew here: On July 12 2012 22:39 Mattchew wrote:
Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak. S&B gets very defensive at being called "active lurker", and says he wants to "establish his innocence" but he's not doing anything like that at all. Check the next posts in his filter, it's just him bickering against marv about the "balance" issue (that has nothing to do with the game). The next thing he does is make half-assed accusations he never seems to follow through: On July 12 2012 23:35 strongandbig wrote:On July 12 2012 22:39 Mattchew wrote:
Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak.
Sorry bro, but that's kind of the nature of the game I guess - any post could be made either by scum or by town? Do you have any suggestions as to how to be more townie? Meanwhile, I feel like there's something to be read in Gonzaw's post about Derpbear - I'm just not sure what. Dropbera accuses Gonzaw of tryharding overmuch, when he's just Gonzawing - then Gonzaw attacks him in a way that I'm pretty sure either exaggerates or straight up mischaracterizes dropper's tiny filter. hmmmmmmmmmmm...... I'll think some more about this later tonight. Gonzaw, have you and DropBurp ever played together before? On July 13 2012 01:54 strongandbig wrote:On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote:On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote:Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan
(for those who care) marvellosityOn July 12 2012 08:54 marvellosity wrote:On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). nonext On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over)
I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons.
Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense.
Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan!
People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. austinmccOn July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning.Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Talis, underlined portions of Marv's posts are what I interpret as his reactions to your plan. Underlined portions of mine are my reaction that I wrote. Two things. One, He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all.
this. If you think I'm just "expanding on" marv, that IS adding something. Otherwise Marv's initial "no" is it, and EVERYONE who disagreed is just "expanding on no." Two, here WAS new content, specific scenarios that I noted your plan could lead to, which I think are bad and weren't mentioned by others: - someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion
- we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning
The first scenario is bad because a really good plan is going to end up "follow this or get lynched." Look at the pick your power games, liar game, etc. With your plan, we'd have to derail the thread from scumhunting and have a policy discussion later in the game about whether someone who didn't follow "the plan," didn't post 3 suspicions, was scummy or just wasn't suspicious of 3 people. Not posting 3 cases wouldn't be alignment-indicative, so we couldn't just lynch them. There'd have to be discussion of that, which would gunk up the thread. That's the full thought process behind that point. As to the second point I made, having players*3 cases in the thread could lead us to a situation where we were lynching based on case quantity and not case quality. Oh, 70% of people are suspicious of X, so we lynch him. Even if he was most people's third choice, and we had a few folks highly suspicious of Y. Ta da. Overall, I think your plan is bad if you want us to follow, and still bad if you want to gauge reactions to it. You got responses from a little more than half the thread, which is alright, but you need a plan that SOME people want if you're going to actually generate "discussion." You got reactions, but not actual discussion. People weren't weighing the pros and cons of the plan, people were just saying no to it. That doesn't get you the sort of interactions that I want to draw conclusions from, because nobody gains town OR scum points for being the 5th or 6th person to pooh pooh a plan that nobody likes.
I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote:
I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:
I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. On July 12 2012 15:25 Risen wrote:
I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this"
I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts. I'm getting some seriously bad vibes from the first half of this post - it seems like there's way too much detail responding to Talis's "you copied marv" thing, when one or two sentences would do. (and when I'm telling you you put too much detail into a post, you've got a problem.) Then you jump back into actually arguing about whether or not the plan is a good idea, which even tali has moved on from. I don't see a vote, I don't see him trying to get other people's thoughts on them, and most importantly I don't really see him as actually interested in pressuring those people...he just seems to softly accuse them and nothing else. For instance take his austin "accusation".....does he think austin is scum or not? Like...what does he conclude? He just calls him out on something, but we don't know if he's accusing him or pressuring him or whatever, since he doesn't follow up on it later at all. For claiming he's trying to "establishing his innocence" he's doing a very bad job, he makes a fluffy post about "balance" and about "keeping an eye on marv", then keeps cluttering up the thread with that "balance" issue, then makes half-assed accusations against me+austin.
Keirathi: On July 12 2012 08:19 Keirathi wrote:sciberbia wrote:
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
I'm not convinced that masons, millers, or roleblockers should claim, but I've never played in a setup quite like this before and I haven't thought much about it. I'll read up on the issue and see if I agree with you guys.
Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance. That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one. As far as claims, I myself haven't played in a game where masons/roleblockers claimed, so I'll have to look into it, but I agree with the points made about RB'ers so far, so that at least makes sense. An unclaimed miller causes more confusion than its worth though, and I can't really think of a situation in which a miller wouldn't want to claim. This post seems a very "I'm trying to contribute here!" one. Spends WAY too much time talking about lurkers and policies, and doesn't even take any interesting stance in the mason/RBer issue (i.e if he had an interesting stance it would be actually a contribution). He just spouts some fluffy stuff about them that only serves to make his post bigger solstice called him out as "verbose" (which was right): On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote:On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote:
Keirathi, assuming you are still around...
why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said. Yet he keeps doing the same thing. He's still "verbose", and his post doesn't contribute shit at all. He says "I'm verbose because of something irrelevant" and "Rehash of what other people said". Not only that, he acknowledges himself that he's rehashing what other people said....yet that doesn't prevent him from posting it and doesn't prevent him from trying to find something else to contribute. His other posts don't call too much attention, yet then he comes out of nowhere with this: On July 13 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote:On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing:+ Show Spoiler +since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time? It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways? ...???? This is so out of place it's not funny. Like, Vivax had 2 votes on him and a case against him, some other FoSes were flowing around (marv on S&B at first, then Vivax on Mattchew, etc); yet when Kei posts he thinks it's more useful to discuss tali's plan again? Not only that, but discuss something so pointless and irrelevant like tali's "motive" for making the plan because it was "half-assed" or some shit? Like....he completely ignored everything else in the thread, wtf?
Now here's my dilemma:Who the fuck do I vote? I want all 3 dead Hmm, I think austin+Keirath are more likely scum than S&B, but I guess Keiarth could be just noob and plays like this because he's noob, so lets go with this. ##Vote: austinmcc Gee how did I guess Gonzaw was gonna post a ginormous wall of text calling me scum again. It's like, if Gonzaw doesn't call you scum, you're not doing things right. If you think that defending yourself against minor accusations is a scum tell then you haven't learned from the right scum sensei. Good scum want to ignore anything that calls attention to their minor inconsistencies or other problems with their play. It's townies who want to make sure they address little things like "active lurking" accusations. As well as whatever the fuck you're accusing me of here. So I guess your points are that I "defended myself too much" and "didn't back up my reads?" Dude did you not just play a game with me? I almost never vote during the first 24 hours of the day. The vote is a tool for pressuring people, not just something you use to announce who you think is scum. And what's wrong with me pointing out things that I find scummy? It's like the first half of the first day, I don't know enough about anyone yet to be sure they're scum. Yeah, I think austin's post was scummy; I think Marv's post was scummy. That doesn't mean I think we should lynch them, it means they should freaking explain yourselves or whatever. Christ gonzaw you're frustrating. And you say I "cluttered up the thread with the balance shit" - do you notice that every time I mentioned it I said "it doesn't matter" and "we should be focusing on whether we think what Marv said was scummy"? Because I only kept talking about it because he was accusing me of being scum because I said it. Yeah so Gonzaw you want me to vote for someone? Well tough fuckin' titties. I think it's interesting that Marv found that inconsistency with Vixen or whoever he is; but it's not conclusive by any means. Right now I actually agree with you that austin is the most likely scum; like I said in the post you quoted, he went way more in detail than he needed to in responding to the thing about copying other people, and he also tried to reopen the discussion of tali's shitty plan thing. But I'm not ready to vote on it yet. I want to see how he responds to your ridiculous wall of text.
...relax dude. Wtf?
Are you going to act like this every time you are accused? Damn you are worse than Greymist.
Sorry, but this "defense" is you just acting all angry and "annoyed" at me (could serve to clutter things up, but you could do it as town too), so I'll just disregard it.
If you want to "establish your innocence" then get to it. You don't need to have 100% accurate reads 1 hour into D1 to establish your innocence.
On July 13 2012 07:05 Mattchew wrote:
Gonzaw I strongly (pun intended) believe the strong is town and I do not want to lynch him today. He says stupid stuff, like "Sorry bro, but that's kind of the nature of the game I guess - any post could be made either by scum or by town? " but he also posts about his gut reads, which while they can be faked, I don't think he did. I think gut reads are very townie
Weren't you the one that found his post suspicious? :/
Why are you backing off? Why the change of heart?
On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote:Lets kill talis, Keirathi or scib Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) Show nested quote +Obviously, we should be lynching every day until we have good reason not to. I will push to get my scumreads lynched, but I will prefer any lynch to a No-Lynch.
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
as he has not pushed a single read yet
I don't agree about killing talis nor sciberbia.
About talismania:
Talis' plan was "bad" but that alone doesn't make him scum. When he posted he seemed to interact with people in a genuine way I think. The way he was discussing the RB deal and shit made me think he was town, mostly because he was eager to discuss it and interact with me/others.
I think he seems townie for now, so I wouldn't want him lynched D1.
About sciberbia:
He did "push" some reads here:
On July 12 2012 13:31 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote:
marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so).
gonzaw asked for some thoughts on Risen, strongandbig, and Mattchew. Obviously there is not much to go on yet, but here are my thoughts so far: risen+ Show Spoiler +I am a bit suspicious of risen1)s0Lstice mentioned risen's conscious change in meta, which could make a lot of sense for someone playing as scum. It's a perfect defense to any meta arguments made against him: he can say he is actively trying to change the way he plays town. 2)Risen's overall tone is amiable and pleasant, which can be indicative of scum trying to be well-liked. I expect a more firm, objective, analytic tone from townies. See these posts: On July 12 2012 07:56 Risen wrote:
Welcome to ICBINTMM in which Risen does not post in caps or call anyone an idiot THE ENTIRE GAME. Stay tuned to see if this actually happens...... On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:
It's cool. It's nothing compared to what I handled from igrok my last game. Anywho, I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. On July 12 2012 10:41 Risen wrote:
I'm down to call people out on their stupidity, I'm just not going to be so aggressive about it. So just take anywhere I'd call someone an idiot, a horrible host, a bad person, a failure at life, etc and replace it with kinder, gentler words. I think... On July 12 2012 10:42 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: This shift isn't to appease anyone. I'm only doing it b/c past experience has shown that calling out idiots on their horrible play leads to them being reinforced in their opinions. So now I'll try to be gentle, kind Risen and guide them like sheeple. On July 12 2012 11:26 Risen wrote:I've heard worse plans On July 12 2012 12:39 Risen wrote:
Holy shit I used a smiley face... Of course it is also plausible that risen is townie and just trying to have some fun. 3) For me, the most suspicious thing in Risen's filter is his address @gonzaw: On July 12 2012 09:49 Risen wrote:
Any particular reason you're trying to push something on people with a low post count in thread so early? Didn't even know lurking was possible at this point. So you're either an extremely eager townie or scum looking for easy targets to push early. As gonzaw pointed out, this is some shoddy scumhunting. First of all, "looking for easy targets to push early" isn't very convincing mafia motivation for gonzaw's posts. But more importantly, Risen is condescending towards gonzaw but then concludes that gonzaw is either eager townie or scum. Risen doesn't actually say anything worthwhile at all in this post. One townie point in Risen's filter: On July 12 2012 10:41 Risen wrote:
I'm down to call people out on their stupidity, I'm just not going to be so aggressive about it. So just take anywhere I'd call someone an idiot, a horrible host, a bad person, a failure at life, etc and replace it with kinder, gentler words. I think... On July 12 2012 10:42 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: This shift isn't to appease anyone. I'm only doing it b/c past experience has shown that calling out idiots on their horrible play leads to them being reinforced in their opinions. So now I'll try to be gentle, kind Risen and guide them like sheeple. His 1-minute EBWOP shows that he is unafraid and didn't put all too much thought into either of these posts. I see this as indicative of a townie. There are all my thoughts on Risen. I'm keeping my eye on him. On July 12 2012 07:33 strongandbig wrote:
sup bros
i am currently watching Le Closer in french in my hotel room.
Scum y'all best get ready to get motherfucking interrogated I'm not going to find him scummy off this one post. If anything, I think he is townie because I think a scum strongandbig would be more likely to pause his movie and go make a decent post or two than a townie strongandbig who isn't as worried.
I don't have a significant read on anything in his filter right now. His first post doesn't strike me as scummy.
Also, I am a little bit suspicious of marv+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over)
I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons.
Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense.
Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan!
People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Talis proposed a slightly idealistic, impractical, and unnecessary plan. I think this was clear to everybody. But Marv not only takes the time to criticize talis's ideas, but also says that he'd like to lynch talis. A good, townie marv should say something like "Talis proposed a 'nonsense' plan. I think this is evidence that he is mafia because X, Y, and Z. Therefore I would like to lynch him." But marv doesn't say why he thinks talis is scummy. In fact marv doesn't even say that talis is scummy, just that he would like to lynch talis for his "never-ending bullshit". @marv Do you really think talis is scummy? If so, why?
They seemed genuine to me.
I get a gut town read on him, the way he posts and responded to my question and stuff made me think that.
Also this:
On July 12 2012 15:44 sciberbia wrote:
on Risen
I'm no longer suspicious of Risen. His recent posting reads townie to me. The last 3 posts have been direct responses with response times of 4 minutes, 4 minutes, and 3 minutes. Additionally, the substance of these 3 posts is somewhat controversial and could catch him some flak (having no reads, wanting to make connections first, thinking dropbear is suspicious). It would take guts as scum to make such posts so quickly. Risen gives me the feeling he is completely unafraid, even though gonzaw and I previously voiced suspicions of him. So now I'm thinking townie on him.
The way he backed off Risen doesn't make me really think he's scum. "Noob" scum rarely back off people and thoroughly explain why (unless of course they are scumbuddies).
Why are you voting him Mattchew? What about all those guys I listed in my previous post? (Risen/Dropbear/Milkton/Kei/austin)
Do you think sciberbia is more likely scum than any of them?
What do you think of austin?
|
@marv+Mattchew: I'd like both of your opinions on austin+Keirath+those guys I posted about.
I can't see anybody other than those 6 being scum for the moment (Milkton's last post doesn't strike me as scummy, so he could be town perhaps), so I think we should focus our attention on them for today's lynch
Of course I won't "force" you to do anything (if you think someone else is scum), but at least pay some attention to those guys and if you trust my reads pay even MORE attention to them and post your thoughts
(this applies to everybody too).
|
I still don't get wtf austin is doing
On July 13 2012 06:04 austinmcc wrote:Milton's post is fluffy but as people keep noting every time he comes up, he said he'd be gone for 12-24 hours before the game started: Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 17:31 Miltonkram wrote:
Eh, screw it. I'll /in this game if people don't mind me being a little inactive for the first 12-24 hours. The players in this game look too good to pass up. No read on him yet.
Here were my earlier thoughts on Risen: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote:I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote:
I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote:
I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:25 Risen wrote:
I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this"
I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts. Hasn't really been activity since then, so my read is roughly the same. I don't like that a lot of his filter is about how he's going to play this game, with the rest being non-reads and his statement that he doesn't like to make reads early. I still don't know what to make of the statement about not liking to make reads early. It doesn't fully correspond with past games. I said I'd go back and look, and I did. SSB:+ Show Spoiler +On July 03 2012 04:26 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 04:15 kingdedede wrote:On July 03 2012 04:09 iGrok wrote:
It's all about how difficult it is to lynch them. There are a lot of things that are -1kp in this game. Cutting everyone down from 3 to 2.5 is very nice for us because then it only takes 2 actions to kill them instead of 3 (or two lynches) Ah, that makes a lot more sense. It's all about the vig shots. While scum kp is also 1, the chance of scum shooting someone who just got lynched is pretty small: why would they bother shooting someone who got lynched (aka: looks scummy)? However, it allows us to vig shoot someone who was lynched and not waste 2 lynches on it. Bringing down everybody's stock sounds like a good idea. How can you be agreeing with this? iGrok you've hosted this before I feel like your giant cred post at the very beginning was an attempt to make everyone confirm you as town right off the bat, but as someone coming in late to the party I think your behavior is very scummy and I don't think someone who knew how this game worked would suggest your plan. We should be minimizing town stock loss. What do you mean "if the scum don't follow us it's clear who they are". Yeah no shit, this plan works out perfect for them why wouldn't "they" follow it. The more I think about it the more I KNOW you wouldn't post some stupid idea like this as town. Add to this your removal of two people from the item position list? What the heck man. All you've done by removing two people from the item list is make it so mafia has a better chance of getting an item. Want to minimize mafia chance of item while maximizing town chance so we're not double stacking? Then have us go down the list in numerical order and say that's left, bottom left, center, etc. Same for left, center, right on the position discussion. I'm going to be voting iGrok for lynch at this point. On July 03 2012 06:13 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 06:13 Cephiro wrote:On July 03 2012 05:59 Risen wrote:
Exactly WHAT does standing on the same platform tell us? It tells us NOTHING. 1) It gives us insight on iGrok's thoughts. (He made a very neutral/safe choice, punishing everyone or no-one, not grouping people yet, which he however IS doing in his item picks/sit-outs. He also gave a valid reasoning, it may not necessarily be the optimal choice, but I haven't seen anyone else give a better idea yet.) 2) The reactions of the players on iGrok's choices. (For example, you insist on not going left with everyone, which you haven't given a valid reason for. Or talismania willing to sit-out, even though there is no risk of a fight [Stock loss] if people follow the plan.) So tell me, have a better idea? For now all I am seeing is that you are saying you are not going to follow the plan. (Which you say is because this gives us no information, which is false.) And in your latest posts you were thinking of dividing by the list. (Which doesn't give us any information at all.) I can say it's not much, but it's better than nothing, and we need something to get the scumhunting started. If you're still going to go against the plan without either a) Giving a better idea or b) Giving proper reasoning, then you're certainly not looking good in my eyes. Found the other scum. Two total? Easy game. On July 03 2012 07:02 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 07:00 iGrok wrote:On July 03 2012 06:54 Risen wrote:On July 03 2012 06:50 Cephiro wrote:
Because you're clearly smarter than me, would you care to explain more in-detail why do you consider that both factions losing percentually the same amount of stock out of their total, thus the ratio staying the same, is worse off for town?
If I understood right, you'd rather do a 3-2-3 split. Assuming there are 2 scum, best case scenario is if both scum end up in the middle and a tornado hits them both. Chances of this happening is (1/3)*(1/4)*(1/7) ~ 1,18%
Worst case scenario is that it hits three townies: (1/3)*(3/4)*(5/7)*(2/3) ~ 11,19%
The chance of worst case scenario happening for town is almost 10 times higher than scum, if my math is not wrong.
Can you explain me why your plan is better?
Especially as iGrok's plan only has a 33% chance of anyone taking damage, and if it happens, we all take damage in an equal ratio.
End ratio isn't equal. Someone else posted on this. Stand where you want to stand people, don't be directed. No information comes from all of us standing on a single square. Damage outweighs benefits imo. Think that sums well. NO, HE POSTED THAT THE END RATIOS ARE EQUAL. QUIT BEING OBTUSE. Don't post in big caps. I was wrong on that, cool. Fact remains we have a smaller buffer. No need to shout. I'm almost 100% iGrok is scum. He doesn't get heated like this usually. Within the first day of SSB, he's decided two players are scum. However, his Cephiro read DOES match up with what he said this game, that he likes connection cases, because he finds Cephiro scummy based on his finding iGrok scummy On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us? I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. On April 22 2012 03:39 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 03:31 slOosh wrote:
Hey layabout I think Risen is acting really off. Agree / disagree? Oh hey look, easy wagon member #1 On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote:
Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time.
I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim.
Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess.
I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel.
##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:16 gonzaw wrote:Risen:I'd like to lynch Risen and I'll tell you why On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote:On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote:How are you feeling VE? Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew? we need Risen to rise and get posting we need ghost 403 to de-cloak we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence we need Janaan to get out of bed we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven *we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit we need layabout to stop with the puns lead us to victory Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us. To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan. This post is wishy washy as hell. First he starts by being unnecessary apologetic when laya called him out. He posts a very wishy washy statement like "from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy". Really? That's not the town Risen I know of. The town Risen I know of would instantly find people scummy and try to create discussion. Town Risen wouldn't stay neutral and spout wishy washy shit like "I'm not sure who's scummy". Then he keeps trying to appear more "innocent" and neutral by saying things like "I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting". Then the rest of the post is fluff about Mementos' plan. He doesn't seem to have a solid stance on the matter (says things like "I don't like directing blues, though I realize this game has special stuff going on") yet he just keeps talking about it. Also, please note the tone of his post. It seems neutral, but most of all it's not aggressive at all. It seems submisive. Layabout called him out and he seems afraid and posts only because he was called out. Also take notice of the bolded "Posting lots is pro-town" bit, I'll use it later. On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy. I hate lurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1. Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless He just barely comments on the marvel issue, but doesn't really take any stances. He keeps up with his "I still don't think anybody is scummy" excuse to avoid taking stances on people. He also doesn't comment on other things happening in the thread, like VE's "case" on me, or my case against VE, or the Paqman/Mattchew issue, nothing. Again, note the bolded bit too. On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us? I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. Now here's the kicker. Here he goes against layabout and votes him, and his reason is "I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me"... ...really? I already said how this seems like Toad's play from LI. He ignores current discussion, he avoids taking a stance on the current events, and instead decides to FoS someone completely irrelevant for shitty reasons, and keeps his vote there. This vote only disrupts town because he fails to justify it and derails current discussions. Not only that, but it makes it so he can "justify" his vote and just leave it there, so he can fake trying to contribute. But there's another important thing to take into account: Notice how aggressive he's become against layabout.Why did the tone of his post and his behaviour change so much? In that first post he sounded afraid. Laya called him out and he sounded submissive against him, he was the opposite of aggressive. He posted trying to please laya, had a very neutral tone, was wishy-washy and didn't take any stances. Yet now that layabout points out Risen being suspicious, he flips and goes all crazy against him? Really? I don't buy that change of behaviour, it's inconsisent, it's way too sudden and doesn't make sense with the way he was posting before. Hey, remember that bolded bits I was mentioning before? Here: Posting lots is pro-town He says that posting a lot is pro-town, yet he's not following his own advice and is barely posting!So really people, Risen is scum because: - He barely posts at all even though he said posting a lot is pro-town and people should be encouraged to do it
- Starts off wishy washy as hell, sounds very submissive and afraid of being called out, ignores current discussions and doesn't take stances on them, posts uninteresting fluff about directing blues while not even taking a solid stance on the matter
- Makes a very flimsy vote on layabout and doesn't justify it at all
- Has a very sudden change of behaviour. He becomes aggressive very quickly while his previous behaviour was the opposite of that
- He doesn't play like when he does as town at all. As town he posts without fear or hesitation, he actively calls people out and tries whatever he can to get some discussion going. As town he posts more and pushes people more, as town he doesn't park a vote on someone irrelevant for irrelevant reasons and remains hidden for the rest of the day
So people, let's lynch Risen
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Risen What kind of stupid shit is this? By request of jubjub Pac I'll respond. Wishy washy? What the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game? How the hell could ANYONE have true feelings of someone being scum that early on. You can have policies that guide you, such as kill every idiot you see, like anyone on VE or lynch lurkers like BM, but you can't possibly have feelings of people being scummy that early on. Only people who are atrocious at this game would take that point seriously. Oh look, we have pac taking it seriously. I'm so shocked. You say this posting looks like Toad from LI? Awesome. I'm not Toad. Also, where do you get me being SUBMISSIVE to layabout. The guy was playing like an idiot and I called him out on it. If you count me apologizing for cursing as being "submissive" then you need to get your head checked. How can you go from me voting layabout to trying to get approval from him. Stupidity at it's finest. BUT Pac wants me to address this piece of shit case so lets keep going. On to your little bullets. 1) I've been busy as all hell, but I've been trying to come in and read and post instead of lurk. Screw it, I should have just lurked. You're right, posting in the thread is anti-town. My bad, I was wrong. I'll stop posting. 2) Not taking a solid stance? I SAID DONT DIRECT BLUES. IT IS BAD. How much more solid does it get? What do I have to do to make it more solid? 3) A flimsy vote on layabout? You right... because votes before a day has passed in the game are going to be super solid. Oh wait. They're not. Only an idiot or scum would try and say something like this. I'm leaning idiot because at least your vote isn't with the derps on VE. 4) I like how you call me passive and then point number 4 is saying I'm being too aggressive. This case is air tight guys, let's all get on the Risen choo choo. Right Janaan? 5) People don't have lives my b I always forget about that. I wasn't supposed to head back to Vegas until next weekend and when I signed up for this game it didn't matter anyways. It took two years to start, though, and I've only been able to read the thread from my phone. Now I'm able to type on a keyboard and tear this horrid case to shreds. I'll sum this case for all you dolts voting on me. Risen isn't playing like his town play usually is (but lets not link any of Risen's filters and quote anything from previous games, lets just SAY that's how it is and pray people don't actually check his filters.) Wow. Slam dunk case Paq, glad I took the time to respond to it. Why are you on me again? I don't have much time, I'm driving back to Flagstaff very shortly. I'm going to cut all this nonsense short and post cases against every person on VE. They're all idiots and/or scum who should be killed. Risen was scum this game, threw around a good number of votes in thread but not as many actual reads as above. Again, focused heavily on connections like who was voting for VE or who found him scummy after the "Risen is scum" idea was proposed On March 23 2012 06:01 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:54 Acrofales wrote:
Okay seriously WTF. I know I'm new to this game, but voting me for that reason alone makes no sense. In fact, it seems quite a scum move to cast suspicion on people right at the start of the game.
Or am I going overboard and it's just a way of getting people to post at the start of the game? Either way, I'm watching you and risk.nuke. Voting off the bat seems fishy. Everything about this post screams emotional overreaction to being voted with something that is clearly not a serious vote. Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 02:23 Acrofales wrote:On March 22 2012 01:50 DoYouHas wrote:Acrofales reads exactly like newb scum to me from his first posts. His first post reads as already being defensive to me: On March 21 2012 18:51 Acrofales wrote:Hi everybody! Well, Curu hasn't said I cannot speculate about Petyr's win condition. Remember that this is idle speculation, but I have read the books a number of times and if Petyr is anything, he is untrustworthy. He only serves his own means, so I am inclined to ignore everything he says, including that he is a vanilla townie  My hunch is that he must kill Ned Stark and keep Catelyn and/or Sansa alive until the end of the game to win. And then he pulls an OMGUS on 2 different people in a very short period of time. ##Vote: AcrofalesGumshoe, wake up and read day1 carefully. We already know who Littlefinger is 100%. It is given information. Your posts are yet to actually be relevant to the game. What you bolded was basically a follow-up to my question before the game started: On March 20 2012 18:13 Acrofales wrote:Are we allowed to speculate about what Littlefinger's win condition is? I have a hunch Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Dementors eating Daenerys baby in order to generate infinite facebook spam messages. As for the rest, I've calmed down a bit, with later people talking about the random votes. It is my first game (ever) and I was hoping to live past the first day. People instavoting for me got me a bit upset. I am happy to unvote Matthew when a better candidate comes up, the ghost of High Heart is kinda cryptic when it comes to her prophecies It was more of a "if you vote for me, then I'll vote for you"-thing anyway. That said, Matthew, why did you vote for me? Chaoser already had the random vote on me. The 2nd one was just mean. That vote has been the entire contribution to this game, with no explanation or text (except for a lololololol, which is even less useful). For reasons I can't put my finger on, I get the feeling from this post that Acro is either horrible, horrible town, or trying to just talk with mattchew so they can generate discussion that looks pro-town. Makes me feel like Acro and mattchew are both scum. Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 05:34 Acrofales wrote:On March 22 2012 05:16 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 03:15 Acrofales wrote:
Any further discussion will have to wait til I'm home. Be back in about an hour.
PS. I read through a couple of games before signing up for this one. It's quite different to play than to watch! :D where you at homeslice and why should i think you are not scum Because I'm town. How about you? More proof of my earlier feeling. Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 06:21 Acrofales wrote:On March 22 2012 06:13 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 05:34 Acrofales wrote:On March 22 2012 05:16 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 03:15 Acrofales wrote:
Any further discussion will have to wait til I'm home. Be back in about an hour.
PS. I read through a couple of games before signing up for this one. It's quite different to play than to watch! :D where you at homeslice and why should i think you are not scum Because I'm town. How about you? so you ignore the case against you and then come back with a one liner holding no information? i say we lynch acrofales and everyone that has defended him I'm still trying to figure out what case that is. I have already said twice now why I overreacted at first. Although I am starting to think my reaction was the right one. You're clearly not adding anything: you choose to ignore the two posts I made in defense of my overreaction, and now mention some case against me. Post your case clearly and properly and I will respond to you, but at the moment you just seem to be trolling me. Even more... Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 23:39 Acrofales wrote:Why we should lynch Mattchew: First off, he starts building an alibi with a case made of air. I understand the pressure vote, but his follow-up was lackluster: On March 22 2012 02:21 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 02:15 Lyter wrote:
I'd say ignore wbg at least for now, we have absolutely no idea what his motives/intentions could be, when more of a picture is formed then we should come back to it by all means.
I'm not sure on Acrofales, yea he could be flipping a shit cos he got called out so early, but his actions are hardly unlikely for a new guy anyway. oh so your his scum teammate? I understand that this is his character, but it is a very useless accusation. You assume I'm scum, therefore everybody who defends me must also be scum. His main reason for calling me scum is: On March 22 2012 03:28 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 03:26 GreYMisT wrote:
Explain to us why he is. over defensive "im a noob" that doesn't want to be be put in the spotlight. look at his reaction compared to the other "noob" guy with a vote on him. its way more aggressive and emotionally angry. The meta-comparison is a completely moot point, as had been pointed out by a number of people. So you were basically tunneling on me, and the reasons given are flimsy at best. Secondly, his defense when other people start questioning his motives: + Show Spoiler [Reply to Zentor] +On March 22 2012 06:10 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 05:32 MrZentor wrote:Hello people of Mafia! It is I, MrZentor! Anyways, I thought this started a day after it did, so I am a little late to the party. Let me tell everybody my opinion, so you can get a good read on me! First we have Acrofales overreacting to a vote that didn't have a basis. On March 21 2012 22:54 Acrofales wrote:
Okay seriously WTF. I know I'm new to this game, but voting me for that reason alone makes no sense. In fact, it seems quite a scum move to cast suspicion on people right at the start of the game.
Or am I going overboard and it's just a way of getting people to post at the start of the game? Either way, I'm watching you and risk.nuke. Voting off the bat seems fishy. He then votes for Mattchew. On March 22 2012 00:04 Acrofales wrote:
Hodor's terribly talkative all of a sudden.
Luckily I have better sources than that. The Ghost of High Heart told me that you are scum.
##vote: Mattchew Lyter defends Acrofales. On March 22 2012 02:15 Lyter wrote:
I'd say ignore wbg at least for now, we have absolutely no idea what his motives/intentions could be, when more of a picture is formed then we should come back to it by all means.
I'm not sure on Acrofales, yea he could be flipping a shit cos he got called out so early, but his actions are hardly unlikely for a new guy anyway. Then Mattchew, bad spelling in hand, attacks Lyter for defending Acrofales On March 22 2012 02:21 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 02:15 Lyter wrote:
I'd say ignore wbg at least for now, we have absolutely no idea what his motives/intentions could be, when more of a picture is formed then we should come back to it by all means.
I'm not sure on Acrofales, yea he could be flipping a shit cos he got called out so early, but his actions are hardly unlikely for a new guy anyway. oh so your his scum teammate? I really don't like that Mattchew attacks Lyter for defending Acrofales, who I think at this point is innocent. It also seems silly that Mattchew is 100% positive that Acrofales is innocent over one nooby overreaction. If you look at Mattchew's filter, you will see he only said something slightly helpful when he was asked to; everything else is just him attacking other people without any real reason. For now, I think he is most likely to be scum. then MrZentor, bad reading comprehension in hand, makes a terrible post with his lead point of his slippery slope theory being untrue because Mattchew (who is awesome, sexy and lover of all townies) never even voted for Acrofales! He does not answer MrZentor's questions or doubts, but instead deflects them and builds a straw man argument about whether or not he voted. This deflection is successful, because the rest of the entire page of discussion is about whether or not he actually voted: he STILL has not answered MrZentor's questions. + Show Spoiler [Reply to Chaoser] +On March 22 2012 07:35 Mattchew wrote:lol Show nested quote + yet he has not commented on anything else aside from tunneling acro, even when the other stuff happening in thread is tied to acro or has been a reaction to acro's posting. Mattchew has literally added nothing to the discussion while looking like he's applying pressure. It's basically false pressure. so you want me to comment on what I am involved with already? wut? and all i did was pressure a newbie who had a bad reaction, i just wanted to push him, and make him post some more. The thread has talked about WBG (which is stupid), Gumshoe's "scumslip" (A common scum tactic to "catch" a townie on) and me/acro More deflection without actually giving his opinion (except that the Acro-Mattchew controversy is the only useful thing in the thread to that point, which I disagree with). Third, and final point: he is really trying to use meta-arguments to make himself look good in the discussion between him and DoYouHas. This is basically just useless fluff which serves only as a meta-defense as "look, I'm not a screwup noob". Okay, lets say I buy that. That leaves you being scum as the only explanation for you building a case out of air and avoiding any other meaningful discussion. Newest info: his last post is actually something of substance, but I'm suspicious of him anyway. It might just be him realizing his gambit is failing and posting something townie. Specifically his sudden change to me being town Entire post is about how he wants to lynch Mattchew... but the last line is telling. He's clearly giving himself an out for when he decides miraculously not to vote mattchew because "someone more scummy" has come along. Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Risen wrote:
Class for another hour and a half, time for some reading when I get back. (Just an update for those who may think I'm lurking since I haven't posted as much as I should have) Most useless "I'm saying I'm not, but secretly am still lurking"-post I have seen in this thread. I think you might be beating out Evantrees for king of the lurks. Remember that in the Game of Thrones kings tend to lose their heads. A legitimate post calling out a lurker. My feeling: [r]scum[/r] He's the most scummy read I have thus far. On March 23 2012 06:04 Risen wrote:
Most of my problems with Mattchew have been summed up in my post on acro. He's either town who is seriously focusing on one guy who other people find suspicious (why should he spend so much time refuting what this guy is saying), or he's scum and coasting by arguing with another mafia guy. Neutral read for now. Scumread on Acro, although a good ways into D1. Finds Mattchew possibly scummy based on his interactions with Acro. I stopped at that point, although there's a little more GoT D1 and LI. But he DOES look like he makes a lot of his reads, even D1, off of connections. The game in which he was most active with voting, he was scum. For now I still find his filter this game odd, because it's quite a few posts to not have reads, but past games make me less uneasy about his statement that he doesn't like to scumhunt early, it's not just making an excuse to coast for a day or two this time around. Right now I'm leaning town on him, because of his response at the end of SSB64. In the scum QT there, Acro and Cephiro talk about how to deal with him, and note that "if he learned to control his rage and angst i think he'd be a really good player." So for now, I think that while his filter seems off, it's off because he's trying to actually do that. I think that also addresses some of your worries here Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 05:15 gonzaw wrote:
However, his "kind" attitude and way he's posting make me wary. Like, the way he posts is very weird and would certainly call people's attention....but isn't it too obvious perhaps? Like, it seems he doesn't really care how people see him, which doesn't make me that confident in thinking he's scum.
But meh, I'd appreciate people's thoughts on him
because the kind attitude and posting style are perhaps an adjustment from the norm. Oh, I've been ninjaed by your other post. I'll respond to that shortly.
So...you think Risen is town then?
I don't get this, why did you go through the trouble of searching 3 games of his just to see if his "claim" made sense?
if you think he's town, why analyze all his games and shit yet still say that "his filter this game is odd". Like, you go through all this trouble to not conclude pretty much anything.
....but why? Why not do this with someone you actually think is scum instead (not someone you think may be town)? Why not pay attention to the game first and post your thoughts on other players/scumhunt instead of focusing 100% of your attention on 1 guy you don't even think is scum?
This doesn't make much sense whether you are scum or town to be honest, you are wasting too much effort to do something not worthwhile at all in both scenarios.
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On July 13 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote:gonzaw - I'm trying to digest everyone's responses to your posts. I agree with you that austin's massive bunch of text about talismania's plan was quite misplaced, but I don't really agree about your criticism of his case on Risen, they seemed decent points to bring up. It concerns me that Keirathi is trying to use meta (or lack of it) as a reason to back off him. Who I'm particularly interested at the moment (read - he's scum), though, is s0lstice. I had this nagging feeling in the back of my head that I was missing someone from all these thoughts you brought up, and it was him. He has a sum total of zero scum reads so far. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 07:39 s0Lstice wrote:
like backflips?
anyway, in the other games I've played with sciberbia, he has had a post prepared as soon as the daypost hit the presses. it usually contains his thoughts on the typical day 1 fodder etc. needless to say he has never played scum.
I'm wondering where he is..
This post, what does it say? 1) sciberbia is always town (so far) 2) sciberbia always makes introductory posts fast at the start of the game 3) sciberbia has not done so here What we're missing is the conclusion. He insinuates the idea that sciberbia might be scum based on the fact that he hasn't posted yet, but he doesn't say it. He just leaves the idea there. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:15 s0Lstice wrote:
maybe I misread, but I'm pretty sure Marv was addressing Talis with those lines you quoted, gonzaw.
As far as the names you listed, I wouldn't want to kill any of them right now. Austin has easy town meta, I feel confident I can recognize it. Mattchew, Risen, and s&b are just blank pages. I am nervous however of Risen making a conscious effort to change his play-style. I read him right in SSB64 but just barely.
Lots of people he DOESN'T want to kill. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:57 s0Lstice wrote:
it's not too fast. day 1 is weird, and it only really gets going when people do what you do.
right now I'd want to hear from Vivax, mainly.
my dear Vivax, what do you think of the people gonzaw posted about? do you find it scummy that they appeared excited to post, yet didn't say much past their intro? "it's not too fast" - this was in response to gonzaw shooting out the blocks with scumreads and pointing fingers. s0lstice approves of this but does none of it himself. He asks Vivax if he finds something scummy, but he avoids saying that thing is scummy himself. Does Vivax find it scummy... idea planted - without saying what s0lstice thinks. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote:
Keirathi, assuming you are still around...
why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? More questions... ok. "why so verbose about lurkers?" - you tell me, how is a townie really supposed to answer that question satisfactorily? It's like, a non-question. It feels like he's saying he's suspicious of it without saying anything about it. He asks what Keirathi thinks of talismania's plan but HE DOES NOT OFFER HIS OWN OPINION. His final few posts in his filter are asking about gonzaw and his PM / # of scum crap, saying it gave him townie points. He's... townhunting? There's no scumhunting in s0lstice's filter. There are leading questions to which he never provides his own opinion (talis' plan, 'do you find it scummy' at vivax) or statements where he implies something but never says it (scib hasn't posted yet), and appreciation for gonzaw starting scumhunting early but doing nothing himself. I believe s0lstice to be the best day 1 lynch. ##Unvote
##Vote: s0lstice
...dude, are you scum?
You keep attacking and pushing the lynch of all my town reads :/
(first Vivax now solstice).
Or maybe I'm an idiot but I hope that's not the case
Also marv, what about S&B? What about Dropbear or Milkton? Do you think EVERYTHING I posted isn't worthy so you go and try to find scum somewhere else? I dunno dude, I posted that so people could post their thoughts about it (and hopefully) agree and vote some of those guys, not to have it completely ignored.
About solstice:
He seems way to enthusiastic to be scum IMO, for instance:
On July 12 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote:
hey all, I'm happy to report that I rolled town again.
lots of familiar faces for me in this game, which is a bonus. I think I've played with most of the people here, and I've read a game Keirathi was in. let's kill scum.
On July 12 2012 07:35 s0Lstice wrote:
also, totally agree with Gonzaw. claim that shit people
On July 12 2012 08:17 s0Lstice wrote:
sciberbia- welcome to the thread! tell me something about keirathi, since you've played with him briefly. did you find it easy to read him as town?
He was active in most discussions, and didn't hesitate to post at all, even if they were those "scummy questions" you are talking about.
I don't see him as scum, and again (just like Vivax, Mattchew and talis) I don't want him lynched today.
To Austin:
I don't see why talis is scummy because of that "2-plan" of his at all. Like, even if he's scum his alignment has nothing to do with his "plan" to me, so this whole conversation that spans paragraphs and paragraphs of stuff (seriously, you say things like "part 1 and the plan part 2 was so part 1 plan plan was part 2 of the second stage" and it's almost impossible to follow)
So apparently marv was right. If that was so why were you encouraging Risen to contribute? Why are you voting talismania instead of him?
Damn, you just post fluff after fluff and shit...but I'm not that sure if you are scum or not because of it :/
(specially after some people, solstice I think, told us you play like this as town)
You remind me of MidnightGladius, at least in his first games.
On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:My top lynch candidate is currently Keirathineutrality/passivity + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
Having a quick flick through a few filters, Keirathi comes across as sounding incredibly neutral. I've noticed the same thing about Keirathi as marv: that almost everything hes says is bland and not controversial. He does a lot of talking about very matter-of-fact things: On July 12 2012 08:19 Keirathi wrote:
Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance.
That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one.
As far as claims, I myself haven't played in a game where masons/roleblockers claimed, so I'll have to look into it, but I agree with the points made about RB'ers so far, so that at least makes sense. An unclaimed miller causes more confusion than its worth though, and I can't really think of a situation in which a miller wouldn't want to claim. On July 12 2012 08:49 Keirathi wrote:
We don't have doctors anyways. On July 12 2012 17:25 Keirathi wrote:
He said when he joined that he was going to be afk for 12-24 hours when the game started. On July 13 2012 06:00 Keirathi wrote:
Those posts are reasonably close together, and his response to me was the only one where he had been mentioned. Granted, its just the last 3 posts in his filter before you made this accusation, but it seems like a pretty baseless accusation.
Pre-Post edit: sorry I'm replying to this late. I've been working through the 75 posts that were made while I was asleep/at work making notes.
These posts give me the feeling that Keirathi is just looking for easy posts to make. Especially the last one. I don't know why Keirathi feels the need to defend Talis from a very minor accusation from Mattchew. unconvincing scumhunting + Show Spoiler +I could probably look through every other player's filter right now and find an original, insightful reason for accusing somebody. But all of Keirathi's accusations are based off evidence that had already been mentioned or just seems trivial and unconvincing. On July 12 2012 15:38 Keirathi wrote:
The only things that have thrown up yellow flags so far were people proposing less than optimal (read: bad) policy plans, ie talis, but I don't feel that was necessarily out of a scum mindset, just didn't think it through very well. However, like I said, its about patterns in behavior which is why I keep notes the way I do (which you saw in NMM XIX).
Here is the first time Keirathi talks about anything he finds even mildly suspicious, and only after I prompted him for it. He repeats the already-covered "bad plans" but doesn't really go anywhere with it. I asked him for suspicions and he wrote a few sentences which say basically nothing. On July 13 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
...
So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time? It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways? I don't buy into his point here at all. He brings up talismania's plan yet again, and makes some very easy criticism of Talis. "pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan" isn't convincing scum motivation to me. Talis's post is easy to criticize, but I think it's a stretch to say it's scummy. marv demanded some real reads and Keirathi posted this in response: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 06:55 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 06:18 marvellosity wrote:
Keirathi, can you stop catching up and provide your views on a person or two? Certainly. strongandbig+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote:Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET.
Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] +The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that.
NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you.+ Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He comes in by leaving himself an excuse for his inactivity that he can fall back on later, then proceeds to lay out basically an entire case based on pure speculation. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 20:46 strongandbig wrote:
Plus he even referred to the fact that he does this as town and I find him scummy for it in the same post where he did it.
So why are you letting him have a free pass for doing it this time? Together, I feel this is a decent case for him being scum but his recent reply to gonzaw's post gives him so townie cred back in my eye. I'm still keeping an eye on him. DropBearI'm mainly suspicious here of his vote for Vivax. Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? When his previous calling out of Vivax was simply asking questions + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote:Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote:
@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style. What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? . He never explicitly said he suspected him of being scum, and tali called him out on this and he never responded. As an aside, its pretty frustrating that so many arguments in this game are based on meta. As someone new to TL, I feel like I am disadvantaged when you all have so much extra information on each other. Both of these reads are easy criticisms of players that have already been criticized. Keirathi said strongandbig left himself "an excuse for inactivity that he could later fall back on". This seems like another stretch. strongandbig just said he was watching a movie. That's not a great excuse for inactivity and even so only buys him a couple hours. I highly doubt that a scum strongandbig would be scheming about how to get out of posting for 2-3 hours. Keirathi also criticizes strongandbig's post on marv and balance, but again this had already been covered by other people. His suspicion of dropbear was based off the vote on vivax. This is yet another easy point to accuse somebody on (a random vote) and again had already been covered in the thread. In conclusion, Keirathi's scumhunting is generally unoriginal, and unimpressive. A couple of his points feel like a stretch to me. This would be consistent with scum because scum knows that everyone else is town and has to try extra hard to contrive reasons why players are supsicious. Overall, I would rate Keirathi as somewhat suspiciousI've got to go now, but I'll be back in a 2 hours and I'll look at the cases on other players at that time.
Are you back yet? More than 2 hours have passed.
On July 13 2012 08:41 Miltonkram wrote:
I've been refreshing myself on the games I've played with austinmcc. He's definitely not the most concise poster in the world. I feel like a lot of the case against him is based on the fact that he uses a lot of words to convey his ideas which is something I feel he would do as scum or town. He's a null read for me. That leaves me with talismania as my top scumread.
##Vote: talismania
I'm off to work. I should be back in a few hours.
What about Dropbear, S&B and Risen?
Hmm, I find this fixation of yours with talismania weird. I think I agree with what Vivax said, I don't think your accusation of him is strong enough to ignore all the other accusations going around (on S&B, austin, Keirath, Risen, Dropbear, etc).
Hell I don't know why so many people are ignoring everything I said about Risen/Dropbear/S&B/austin.
To everyone:
If you had to lynch one of Risen/Dropbear/Austin/S&B/Keriath who would it be?
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Hmm, I'm thinking about switching my vote to either Dropbear or Keirath.
Dropbear tried to act all "tough" and shit but I get the impression he only tried to spout as many stuff as he could about plans/etc and trying to create some chaos by accusing people or discrediting plans/accusations.
His vote on Vivax is a joke (some people already went over this), and he hasn't done anything that makes me think he actually cares about town discussion, his posts just seem to appear like he's there doing something since he's so aggressive about it, but nothing else.
I get the feeling Keirath is more likely scum.
Like Matt said his reads seemed "forced", in the way that they weren't much reads at all. At least S&B's read, where Kei calls him suspicious but townie at the same time (and calls him suspicious for some bad reasons I think).
He seems fixated on "meta" somehow, thinking all of us are using "meta" to catch scum (we are not).
His defense of Milkton seemed out of place as well (like it came out of nowhere and he defended him just because of "meta" again, hell I don't even know why he's defending him).
Like said before his posts are too verbose, but trying to blend in IMO. He also spends quite time just defending himself which I don't particularly like (he could have been pushing for other reads at that time).
Let's go with this, but I'd be happy with a switch on Dropbear to be honest (hmm, I think S&B could be scum as well, but I'll wait till he comes back)
##Unvote: austinmcc
##Vote: Keirath
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On July 13 2012 12:07 sciberbia wrote:
@gonzaw
Go reread everything austin wrote on Risen. I think you are overly suspicious as a result of misreading austin's posts. Marv and austin pointed this out, but your vote is still on austin. Do you still think he is the best lynch?
My bad, I just noticed it. The thing is that it's like he thought Risen was town even in that 1st post of his, but maybe it's his own weird way of being suspicious
Hmm, okay, I think I'll let austin slide, it does seem he posts like this when he's town, and him being a noob could explain him being all over talismania for something irrelevant.
Sciberbia, I'd like it if you didn't spoiler everything you post, it makes it VERY easy to miss when filtering, and makes it kind of hard to find anything specific you wrote.
@talismania: Could you read my post about Risen/Dropbear/S&B/Keirath and post your thoughts? If someone posts again about your "plan" just ignore it, please don't clutter the thread up more by it.
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On July 13 2012 20:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 04:47 gonzaw wrote:
I don't see a "relatively noob" scum posting like this as soon as the game starts.
He "jokingly" accused 3 people by that point, and seemed cheerful about it. That's not how noob scum play (why would they try to "joke" accuse people if it puts them more in the spotlight as SOON as the game starts?), hell they even rarely post at the very beginning of the game at all, and they never appear cheerful or anything. Why? Because they are scum that's why, they have to check their scum QT, check their buddies, talk to them, think how they are going to proceed, etc.
Someone more experienced could pull this off, but I even doubt that.
That's what made me think Radfield wasn't scum on iGrok's game and I was right, basically no scum jumps right into the action at the very start of the game and start joking around and posting without hesitating at all.
No, you were wrong. Radfield was scum - SK - in that game, a game where you repeatedly and incorrectly called him townie. Why are you using one of your biggest fail-reads (by comparison, I had Radfield as scum and voted for him as SK, correctly, in igrok's poll) as a way of justifying your townreads here??
No I was right, he wasn't scum, he was SK. There's a difference (at least I think there is one).
On July 13 2012 22:01 marvellosity wrote:In other news, I'm for some unknown reason still quite annoyed at gonzaw. "Scum don't act lighthearted n shit at the start of games" has been his central premise. Well, while going back through a previous game... Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 18:13 Miltonkram wrote:On June 12 2012 09:04 suki wrote:
Oh yay s0lstice and sciberbia :D
i hope we're on the same team this time around T__T I know what you mean. It's great being on their team, fucking terrifying when they're working against you  Good to see so many familiar faces! Can't wait for this to get started so I can feed my Mafia addictio... uh... I mean... enjoy a wonderfully sporting event with you gents! Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 10:35 Miltonkram wrote:Hey all, glad to see we've got a bit of activity already. In NMM XV we actually had a decent discussion about no-lynches (involving me making a fool of myself) and how they can actually be beneficial in certain setups. That being said, we don't know for certain if we'll have any modkills so we should leave no-lynches off the table until we hit the unlikely scenario that a no-lynch is beneficial for the town. Town, the best way to contribute is just to get posting. Let everyone know what your thoughts are. Did someone post something suspicious? Let us know about it. Do you think the town is making a bad move? Let us know about it. If a townie lurks he/she is letting down his/her entire team. So don't do it, K? I'm sooooooooper serious. Like sooooper, soooooooooooper serious.Hey sciberbia, remember this ##Vote: sciberbia...heh heh heh Miltonkram scum. Friendly, jokey, with a non-explained vote at the start of a game. Such a shit heuristic.
Wtf are you kidding me? That 1st quote was done in Pre-Game
And no that 2nd quote is not what I mean at all. Being "playful" in one post only (or trying to appear one) is not the heuristic I'm using at all. I'm talking about the very start of the game and being active and playful there, not coming to the thread later and trying to cram everything into 1 post before disappearing (what Milton did in that game).
Hmm, I'll give you that about joke voting at the start though.
Talking about it, I'm not that sure of my town read on Vivax now, but like I said before I'm not happy lynching him on D1.
Hmm, okay, this seems a little convoluted right now. There seems to be a subtle Milton vs talismania battle right now (as in, people find either one of them scummy or the other one), but they are not getting too many votes (other than talismania).
I still don't see what makes talismania that scummy and worthy of a lynch, and after rereading I keep getting the feeling Milkton is trying to ride through this day easily by accusing talis and solstice later.
I still think Keirathi is likely scum (although him being a noob doesn't make me that comfortable about it).
I'm still not comfortable at all with S&B and Dropbear, Dropbear specifically.
I'd support a lynch on Keirath/Dropbear/Milkton today, I think they are the ones most likely scum for me now
@Mattchew: Where are you dude? Will you keep your vote on sciberbia?
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On July 13 2012 22:30 marvellosity wrote:
scum = not town, it includes SK
*sigh* I obviously mean "mafia", not just "an anti-town faction"
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On July 13 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote:mafia means mafia, scum means anti-town, but ok gonzaw. I could squabble with you for hours
Okay, Vivax may be the SK, happy now? >_>
(actually, is there a SK this game?)
On July 13 2012 22:36 marvellosity wrote:gonzaw: what do you make of this? Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 10:21 s0Lstice wrote:
Miltonkram: I found to my sorrow that making a case on a town Talis is an easy thing to do. This also means that he is an attractive target for scum to harp on. I found Milton's reasoning strange. His filter is small, but there are several references to the use of meta. He uses meta to inform his reads on Keirathi, Sciberbia, and austin...but not his top scum read? I know for certain that the information he would find would be useful to him here. His case reads as phony, and I think there is a good chance he rolled scum again.
Risen: I've spent a ton of time in his past games. The two biggest things he did when he was scum that he didn't do when he was town were: stressing repeatedly that it's too early to have reads, and being forthcoming/defending his 'town reads.' So far this game he has hit both of those marks. He defended Mattchew, and concluded that Dropbear being town is likely. He has said twice that it's too early to post reads.
I feel better about lynching Miltonkram today, and as such:
##vote: Miltonkram
This game his [austin's] effort matches, and I feel he has made some good points on Risen. Him matching his town meta is only one piece of my view on him, and it's largely unnecessary. His actions thus far seem pretty pro-town to me. Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 11:33 Keirathi wrote:On July 13 2012 10:58 s0Lstice wrote:
what do you think of Miltonkram, Marv? As an aside: your case against Risen feels stronger than your case against Milton anyways. I'm kind of suprised you voted the way you did. Mentioned elsewhere in my filter, but that was my gut reaction to s0lstice's post as well. What do you think?
Yeah I noticed it.
I'd like him to explain himself though (I don't know if he did), since I don't think it's something "scummy" in itself but rather could be more of a misunderstanding.
I didn't really pay much attention to it since the rest of his posts make me think he's town (I've already said why I think).
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On July 13 2012 22:51 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 22:47 gonzaw wrote:On July 13 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote:mafia means mafia, scum means anti-town, but ok gonzaw. I could squabble with you for hours Okay, Vivax may be the SK, happy now? >_> (actually, is there a SK this game?) On July 13 2012 22:36 marvellosity wrote:gonzaw: what do you make of this? On July 13 2012 10:21 s0Lstice wrote:
Miltonkram: I found to my sorrow that making a case on a town Talis is an easy thing to do. This also means that he is an attractive target for scum to harp on. I found Milton's reasoning strange. His filter is small, but there are several references to the use of meta. He uses meta to inform his reads on Keirathi, Sciberbia, and austin...but not his top scum read? I know for certain that the information he would find would be useful to him here. His case reads as phony, and I think there is a good chance he rolled scum again.
Risen: I've spent a ton of time in his past games. The two biggest things he did when he was scum that he didn't do when he was town were: stressing repeatedly that it's too early to have reads, and being forthcoming/defending his 'town reads.' So far this game he has hit both of those marks. He defended Mattchew, and concluded that Dropbear being town is likely. He has said twice that it's too early to post reads.
I feel better about lynching Miltonkram today, and as such:
##vote: Miltonkram
This game his [austin's] effort matches, and I feel he has made some good points on Risen. Him matching his town meta is only one piece of my view on him, and it's largely unnecessary. His actions thus far seem pretty pro-town to me. On July 13 2012 11:33 Keirathi wrote:On July 13 2012 10:58 s0Lstice wrote:
what do you think of Miltonkram, Marv? As an aside: your case against Risen feels stronger than your case against Milton anyways. I'm kind of suprised you voted the way you did. Mentioned elsewhere in my filter, but that was my gut reaction to s0lstice's post as well. What do you think? Yeah I noticed it. I'd like him to explain himself though (I don't know if he did), since I don't think it's something "scummy" in itself but rather could be more of a misunderstanding. I didn't really pay much attention to it since the rest of his posts make me think he's town (I've already said why I think). "How many scum are there? Four?" "There are PMs this game right guys? PM me!" "is there an SK this game?" ... making me think you're scum here man
To be honest, when I'm scum I'm pretty paranoid about asking those kind of questions and shit, since I always get the feeling people might accuse me exactly of that.
I think it tells on Liar Game, each time there was no night kill my "Oh my! There is no night kill!" posts seemed forced and made me extremely paranoid >_>
Anyways S&B, know that I'm not that happy with your play this day, and I think you could easily be scum. But *sigh* there are things that make me think you could post as town and don't make me confident too much in your lynch.
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Yeah I read that, but since he changed the setup a little bit I don't know how much the chances of there being a SK are (or if there is one 100% or something).
Meh I guessed I derped with that question.
Hmm, now that I think about it the more flips there are we can determine how many scum there are.
Like, each time a cop flips we add a "C" (or "CC", etc), if a VT flips we add "T", etc. In the end we can know (based on all the Ts,Cs, Bs and shit that flipped or are claimed) exactly how many scum/SKs are and how many of them are.
I'll try to keep tabs personally.
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On July 13 2012 23:05 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 23:00 gonzaw wrote:
the more flips there are we can determine how many scum there are
......... man seriously. what are you doing. and I know what you were trying to say ("we can reverse engineer wbg's setup randomizer or something and know how many scum there are") but since we don't know the setup randomizer that's also totally pointless.
WBG said this setup follows C9++ but the only thing that changed was the chance of the roles and he added a Framer (and changed Medics->JK and IC->Miller).
There's no need to shit things up I'll just do it on my own (other people could do it on their own) and if I find something interesting I'll state it (for instance I checked the C9++ wiki and apparently there is a SK only when there is an odd amount of VTs, I guess it may be similar here).
It may help in a LYLO massclaim for instance.
Also, I think WBG said he was posting his "determiner" once its balanced.
WBG: WIll you post the "randomizer" you used to determine the setup?
Also apparently no Miller nor Masons claimed, so we don't have any of those
Therefore I'll consider any Miller or Mason claim from now on as confirmed scum (well...it doesn't seem likely scum would fake-claim Mason together but whatever).
So Cops....check away, any Red check you get will be legit (no Miller claimed and you are guaranteed to be sane).
S&B, what do you think of Dropbear and Risen?
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For fucks sake could you stop being so dramatic? I'm the only one hinting at using it to gain info not "people".
Also I said I won't discuss it anymore and just keep it private until something interesting comes up, nothing else
*sigh* I hate it when people blow things out of proportion just to "appear pro-town"
Also don't answer in WBG's behalf. He explicitly said he'd release the "determiner" at some point (after the tweeks and shit), I was just wondering if he'd release it now (so the whole thing I've been talking about would be more useful this game)
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Ehmm...is it me or does the day END IN FREAKING 5 HOURS!!!!??
Seriously people, these votes are a mess, there are 6 people with votes on them and the guy with most votes has 3 (marv will you keep your vote on solstice?).
So please people consolidate the votes unless you want:
1)A NL
2)A rushed last-minute wagon on someone (to prevent NL) that will most likely end up being town.
I already said I think Keirath is scum and should be today's lynch. But I wouldn't mind a Dropbear lynch either (because of reasons stated earlier).
In mind with S&B's recent posting I wouldn't mind his lynch either, I don't like how he sporadically comes into the thread to shit things up and doesn't seem to care about being part of any discussion.
At least I want some freaking discussion about the lynch.
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On July 14 2012 01:44 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote:
gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum.
I'll just leave this scum filter here. Bear in mind this was a PM game, so that was merely half his effort. I'm not saying he's scum because of it, but please do not assume he is town through effort, that's totally null alignment-wise for gonzaw. holy shit haha. How much free time do you have gonzaw??
At that point not that much actually (I was still going to uni). Although I did get kind of "obssessed" so I did use like 80% of my free time in that mafia game >_>
Right now I don't have uni anymore so I have more free time.
On July 14 2012 01:53 sciberbia wrote:
@gonzaw
If you've already taken the time to assemble the votecount, could you post it?
Also, I made my stances clear last night and they haven't changed. I'd be happy lynching Keirathi or Vivax. I could tolerate a lynch on dropbear/s0Lstice/Miltonkram/Risen, but I really think that Keirathi and Vivax are more suspicious.
I'm at work till 6PM and I'm following the thread. I'm currently voting Keirathi but I'd be happy to switch to Vivax if enough people share my views on him. Unless I see any really scummy posts or convincing cases, I will vote for someone other than Keirathi/Vivax if and only if it proves necessary to prevent a NL.
Mattchew: sciberbia
Risen: Vivax
s0lstice: Milkton
marvellosity: solstice
Vivax: Milkton
Austinmcc: talismania
dropbear: Vivax
talismania: Dropbear
sciberbia: Keirathi
keirathi: --
miltonkram: talismania
strongandbig: Keirathi
gonzaw: Keirathi
cba to do the other way hosts do it in this forum (just copy-pasted my notes)
On July 14 2012 01:57 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:33 gonzaw wrote:
Ehmm...is it me or does the day END IN FREAKING 5 HOURS!!!!??
Seriously people, these votes are a mess, there are 6 people with votes on them and the guy with most votes has 3 (marv will you keep your vote on solstice?).
So please people consolidate the votes unless you want:
1)A NL
2)A rushed last-minute wagon on someone (to prevent NL) that will most likely end up being town.
I already said I think Keirath is scum and should be today's lynch. But I wouldn't mind a Dropbear lynch either (because of reasons stated earlier).
In mind with S&B's recent posting I wouldn't mind his lynch either, I don't like how he sporadically comes into the thread to shit things up and doesn't seem to care about being part of any discussion.
At least I want some freaking discussion about the lynch. Is anyone else voting dropbear? yet you want consolidation?
If people change their votes to Dropbear, then yes.
If for instance you+marv+someone else change their vote to Dropbear there's consolidation. "Consolidation" doesn't mean voting for the guys with the most votes just so "some guy has the most votes", it's not having every single vote dispersed throughout lots of people. If all votes consolidate into a new guy then I don't see the contradiction.
Matt, what are you planning to do? Your vote is still on sciberbia and you haven't posted anything interesting in a while.
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Well shit >_> (wbg already posted the vote count)
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^^Yeah but that's not how I keep notes. I just keep a list of everybody, and put who they voted next to them.
If someone votes someone, or unvotes, or changes his vote I just change that field, I don't have to change THE WHOLE LIST of players ordered by the number of votes they have.
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EPT
