Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 9

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marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 20:46 GMT

#1778

Are you purposefully being stupid?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 21:00 GMT

#1783

good. you ask what i particularly like the case.

I quote the part where I said what I particularly liked about the case and why, and you post some drivel. If that's the level of cognitive thought you're capable of this game then ignore away.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 21:06 GMT

#1787

On July 20 2012 06:03 VisceraEyes wrote:

Show nested quote +

IN PARTICULAR! I asked you SPECIFICALLY what you liked about his case! What parts of it did you find alignment indicative? What about it makes you think that you were wrong about MZ, that he's NOT pushing an easy lurky candidate and is NOT scum like you thought?

You're accusing me of being stupid and you're being MALICIOUSLY obtuse! DO YOU WANT ME TO FUCKING DESTROY THE THREAD MARV BECAUSE I'LL FUCKING DO IT

ok let's not ruin the thread. what about my quote didn't you understand?

1) I said the part I particularly liked was where MZ said rastaban was always going with the flow and never dissenting
2) I said that is what I viewed as classic mafia mindset in this setup
3) MZ brought this to the thread where it had not been shown before

I don't understand what you think is missing from this explanation

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 21:12 GMT

#1791

or you just won't answer for reasons I can't comprehend. you're a very very strange person.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 22:36 GMT

#1808

On July 20 2012 07:34 sandroba wrote:
Man this is fun.

I messaged Zealos yesterday before the day post. He never revealed he got pm. I just got confirmation that the pm was sent and Zealos has posted twice since then. So yeah fun times.

i hate you sandroba

you get to play all these fun games. I sit here like a dumpling with no shizzle D:

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 23:46 GMT

#1881

On July 20 2012 08:44 Probulous wrote:
Does anyone still think BH is mafia?

Cause for the life of me I can't believe that mafia would need a blocking ability if they have the only nuke. Given they only have six power roles, it would needlessly weaken them. We know town don't have a nuke because Kurumi is still alive.

never underestimate the stupidity of townies my friend

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 23:50 GMT

#1883

I would not be surprised. I could easily think of a townie being obstinate and saving their nuke on the basis that Kurumi was going to die anyway. And there's probably other silly reasons too.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 19 2012 23:57 GMT

#1886

thanks, I just spat out my water.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:00 GMT

#1889

what if say layabout was town and had a nuke and he has been defending Zealos?

I am extremely uncomfortable making categorical statements about what we do and do not have based on what people "should" do.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:03 GMT

#1891

Probe, it doesn't particularly help to revisit it because I don't know how to explain my frustration at the time in a particularly polite manner. It's gone.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:18 GMT

#1894

On July 20 2012 09:12 Probulous wrote:
Ok since you guys are here, thoughts on QBertz?

Note to self: QBertz is acusing people of lurking whilst being useless himself.

Your note is good enough. I have a hatred for people who post like that anyway. If I were offered right now for him to be dead or alive, I'd choose dead.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:33 GMT

#1908

On July 20 2012 09:24 VisceraEyes wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why? WHY? ARGH this is like the third game you've said this in! I LOVE it! Like, yeah okay - it makes reading him harder. But I mean - so? That's the point of the game! I have my own strategy for making myself harder to read (trying to post the same way as Town/Scum and post A LOT)...why the hate for Chez' strategy?

And do you think he's scum? Or is that like, a Policy Lynch? Because your phrasing leaves that pretty ambiguous doesn't it?

Because if you're town you shouldn't be making reading you as town harder, that's retarded.

From LVI obs QT

DrazerkPerson was signed in when posted
07-13-2012
12:45 PM ET (US)
And that is why I purposely fuck with my own Meta to make me unreadable

wherebugsgo
07-13-2012
06:26 PM ET (US)
Drazerk when you fuck with your own meta you get mislynched as town (or destroy discussion) so you're part of the problem anyway.

Anyway, from his lack of actual scumhunting he's probably scum. I found his post having a go at gonzaw quite misplaced as well. And sure it was ambiguous. If I were a traditional vigi I would have shot him night 1.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:36 GMT

#1911

So, how about you just give us the message Zealos ^^

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:42 GMT

#1921

On July 19 2012 03:11 sandroba wrote:
And BTW scum I already messaged one of you. If the person I messaged doesn't reveal he got messaged until the end of this night I'm gonna know he/she is scum for sure. GL figuring it out, I put great effort into it =)

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 00:53 GMT

#1935

Is Foolishness usually this transparent as scum?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 01:05 GMT

#1944

It's a dead end, Matt

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 01:08 GMT

#1948

On July 20 2012 10:06 Mattchew wrote:

Show nested quote +

so you don't want me to talk about the read or you think i should stop cause you think "im right, he's wrong"

Basically. I think Probe is right, that kinda stuff is pretty damn null for alignment on VE.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 10:27 GMT

#2128

On July 20 2012 13:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
VisceraEyes Attempt At Night-Kill Analysis

First, the reason I've done this: the mafia kill mechanic.

Show nested quote +

So, here's my theory: this night-kill holds significance because A) I haven't done this analysis yet

and B) This night is the most likely that the CEO does not know who his minions are yet.

The information that the CEO has, as I understand it, is the names of his two Executives. And the information that the Executives have are the names of the minions.

But all mafia but the CEO must submit a name for the night-kill.

So this means 2 things. 1) that the night-kills will more likely have an actual reason other than "to throw town off" or "blue snipe" and 2) that the CEO gets information on who his minions are by who they want to kill.

Given all of this, my assumption is that Blazinghand is Mafia. First of all, just so we're clear, I do NOT have the ability to block nukes. Nothing stops a nuke. It's a nuke. I guess it's possible, but I very seriously doubt it for two reasons. 1) because RoL had a dud nuke. It never had a chance of exploding, ever. And 2) Because as Bugs commented earlier - if BH was town and had a block available, he would have blocked Kurumi's nuke the moment he found out that Kurumi was scum. Regardless of the fact that scum minions don't know who each other are, it is a net gain for town to prevent mafia from achieving their objectives. Period. Kurumi could have been under direct orders to fire that nuke for all we know.

So right now I'm looking at something like...

Kurumi, Zealos, Foolishness, Blazinghand

...if we're talking about my like...really heavy strong scum reads. Layabout is still up there, and here's something else I found that was interesting:

Show nested quote +

Which further makes me question my read on marvellosity to be honest. Starting to think marvellosity is scum too, because layabout goes unnoticed by marvellosity in spite of

Show nested quote +

On July 19 2012 21:01 marvellosity wrote:

On July 19 2012 18:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Alright guys let’s talk rastaban. The first thing that caught my eye was, conveniently, his first post so let’s start there.

On July 16 2012 23:32 rastaban wrote:
Caught up now, thoughts so far:

First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity!

This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for.

@ HiroPro

Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see:

Extra Information:
The mafia kill process goes like this:
Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline.

Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far.

OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch.

This post is a whole lot of fluff. The game has been going on for a while when he makes this and there’s plenty to discuss however rastaban is more comfortable discussing the setup. This is a red flag, this type of post is something you make right after the game starts, not when the game has been going on and there are actual issues that can be addressed.

To continue with this theme we have posts like this:

On July 17 2012 00:19 rastaban wrote:
Wait I just realized it said "one" of them in those posts. I had thought they sent out a message to all their followers at once, but it means instead of the above example, at most the high up, could tell one other person to try and save him. That means only 2 scum detractors at most from any lynch today

Again, it’s just talking about the setup instead of actually scumhunting.

Let’s look at the next two posts together:

On July 17 2012 01:37 rastaban wrote:
@BH
What is this??? the only way someone could vote you is if they are scum, do you really believe you are that town?
Your latest post is so crazy I almost think it is a joke.

On July 17 2012 03:54 rastaban wrote:
VE both games I have played with you you pushed someone incredibly hard day 1, why do you want to do a random lynch, cant you find any scum this time?

Both these posts serve no purpose. Does rastaban think either of these two are scummy? Who knows. He says that BH is so crazy he almost thinks it’s a joke but gives us no read. Similarly with VE, he mentions how VE’s behavior is different than what he’s observed but gives no read.

After a nice little wagon has built up on BH, rastaban finally feels confident calling for someone’s death:

On July 17 2012 05:18 rastaban wrote:
I like the case on BH better than the on Mz right. I feel GGQ is right in his assessment that mafia will use the lack of ties to make them more bold in their case rather than second guessing. Look at my play as Serial Killer, I decided to try and play as pro town as possible, I ended up going overboard and tunneling risk.nuke in my effort. I feel like MZ's caution is the sign of town who wants to get things right rather than scum who wants to get the day over with. Think about it we still have more than 24 hours of discussion to go.

As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake.

##vote blazinghand

He like the case on BH better than the one on me but spends most of the post talking about something other than his reasons for voting BH.

Ultimately, rastaban’s vote seems like it is available to whichever candidate is currently the flavor of the hour:

On July 17 2012 13:29 rastaban wrote:
Sylo also looks like a good target, and while his actions are Scummy I recommend the Ace method, when two people both look like scum start by lynching the player you have more content on. We can give Sylo till tomorrow to improve if need be, and lynch this scum BH he has so much content and it all points one way

On July 18 2012 11:33 rastaban wrote:
I like the BH LYnch better but I could go for lymching Austin as well mainly because the only defense for him is it's so scummy scum wouldn't do it. I have mis-lynched gonzaw before and this case on him doesn't seem that strong. That said his reaction is quite different than in bang bang so I would take over a nolynch if we can't get BH or Austin stung up.

On July 18 2012 12:32 rastaban wrote:

On July 18 2012 12:26 Mattchew wrote:
I think Gonzaw is overwhelmed (not enough time) and that very much plays into why his meta would seem off. His confidence seems to be gone without being able to be the most dominant (usually by sheer volume) poster in the thread. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this little filter out of him and I think this all stems from not having enough time. I think his reactions and posts are sincere and truthful

I see u are on MZ. Gonzaw and mh are our leading candidates and it looks like I agree to give gonzaw a bit more time. Will u switch to MH?

On July 18 2012 12:57 rastaban wrote:
Sorry guys but I have to head to bed. I think the momentum is swinging back to BH so I will leave my vote where it is.

The last post really betrays rastaban’s strategy. He “agrees” with the every case that was brought up d1 however he sticks with BH because that’s where the momentum is. This just screams scum trying to fit in. He’s not going to argue hard for the BH lynch, he won’t stick his neck out by switching to another candidate but he’ll agree with the argument against that person just to be in agreement. Finally, he chooses to go with BH because it’s the one that seems the least controversial.

This may not be a very elegant post but it should get the point across and I need sleep. I’ll be happy to answer any questions when I wake up.

tl;dr rastaban needs to die at some point.

I'd like to give this some love. I started off reading it sceptically but at the end I was down with it. Meapak demonstrates in rastaban what I would classify as the classic mafia mindset in this setup - not rocking the boat, going with the flow, not drawing attention to yourself with dissent. rastaban this game is classic mafia.

...being the reason marv gave for agreeing with MZ's case. Considering marv's high regard for Bugs as a player, I'd expect a town marv to be all up on layabout after Bugs post on him. But Bugs must have been killed for a reason.

tl:dr -

Blazinghand is Mafia
I think marvellosity and layabout are suspicious based on my reread.
I do not have a nuke-block.
Skidoosh.

Reading through the thread at the moment and found this. The reason I am not all up on layabout's shizzle is because my views align with Palmar on the layabout issue. Palmar said "I don't think layabout would be an asshole like that", bringing his own frustrations about mafia into the game as an excuse. I know some of you disagree.

VE, you also know I have history of thinking like this. Remember Magic Mini where I told you Matt was basically confirmed town to me, because he'd sworn at me and if he'd "faked" that swearing he was a total asshat and I didn't believe Matt was a total asshat? You weren't particularly satisfied with it at the time (you tried to get me to think about different reasons) but I was 100% on it.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 10:45 GMT

#2130

On July 18 2012 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
For anyone who is actually town and believes what Austin says, consider the following points:

1. Sandro's trick only works if you force a mafia to out themselves publicly.

2. Mafia can utilize commands that have absolutely nothing to do with public member identification.

3. A town player who has caught scum has the vested interest in outting that scum immediately in the case that he will die. In sandro's case this is immensely likely given that he is among the strongest scumhunters on the forum.

4. In accordance with the above 3 points the trick only works once.

Was just looking for something and found this. Humdeho.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 20 2012 10:46 GMT

#2131

On July 20 2012 19:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yes I remember. And like Magic Mini, I'm just going to suck ass and disagree with you because I think the fact that he's not doing anything is scummy as shit.

Disagree with me all you like, I was just explaining my (in)action regarding layabout ^^

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