Normal Mini Mafia II - Page 8

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 20:27 GMT

#607

On July 10 2012 00:30 slOosh wrote:
Yo MrZentor,

I (slOosh), the main pusher for the Sinensis lynch, has decided he is looking townish even in light of everything I said D1. Clearly there is reason behind this. I'm not there to piggyback off anymore.

I looooove reading the thread

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 20:50 GMT

#616

Gonna post on Zentor shortly. Just need to do my homework on it first.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 21:12 GMT

#618

Why marvelbabe thinks Zentorpoopants is scummyscumscum

It's a nice combination of reasons of actions this game and a little bit of meta. First of all Zentor says Sinensis is 'suspicious' and only after being prodded does he reveal it's because he is being 'cautious, lurky scum'. Ok that's fine. Events later in the lynch aren't so favourable. He never deigns to tell us why drwiggl3s is a bad lynch at all, he just tells us Sinensis is more likely to flip scum. No reasoning given either way. His posts towards the end of the day amount to telling town we're stupid for voting how we are, but without actually trying to convince us otherwise. There is also the fact that he tried to claim credit for the Sinensis wagon when actually he didn't lead the wagon at all, slOosh did.

Then comes the episode a little earlier today. He comes in with a vote on Sinensis straight off the bat. But he doesn't tell us why. I quiz him on it, and for some reason he refuses to tell me - I point out that clearly Sinensis is NOT being cautious and lurky, which were his original reasons. All I get back is that his transition out of this phase was 'extremely scummy'. Not a reason at all. He's riding this wagon to make it look like he's doing something. Eventually after extremely heavy pressure from me he caves and makes a "case" but for me it is too late by then.

In Emergency Mafia he never didn't tell people why he was lynching people. There was proper analysis of his lynch candidates (to an extent). I also found it an interesting psychological moment earlier in the game when he said this:

On July 07 2012 07:28 MrZentor wrote:
Prphlz is being a reckless townie.

Sinensis is being a cautious, lurky scum. (A lot like my scum play actually)

Forgot to do this earlier. ##Vote: Sinensis

The bit in brackets. Of course it could be completely innocent, but I think it betrays his mindset this game - trying very hard not to be so, and condemning someone else for it. Also note his point of view on prplhz - reckless townie. Arguably what Sinensis has turned into, but we're not treated to the distinction.

Most of all though, I'd like to draw similarities between comments here and in Bang Bang where he was Serial Killer. I first got a scumread on Zentor after a little exchange we had:

On June 16 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

I know it seems like I'm obsessed with Toad right now, but I see no mention from you in your filter of ANY suspicions of Toad. So explain.

On June 16 2012 00:35 MrZentor wrote:
A lot of people have talked about their suspicions of toad and their reasons. He seems like the best target right now.

If I were to tell you why Toad is mafia, I'd be copying a bunch of other people.

And here:

On July 10 2012 00:23 MrZentor wrote:
If I'm going to provide "adequate reason" I'll probably end up copying BlueLight's case, because he showed why Sinensis is scum much better than I ever could.

How is that helpful to anyone?

If you really want me to reiterate the case against Sinensis, you're just going to be wasting everybody's time.

In Bang Bang his read on Toad mysteriously appeared and his natural reaction when quizzed was "other people have said it". Compare to here where he also abdicates responsibility for giving a reason for his reads on the basis that other people have said it.

Zentor is scum.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 21:27 GMT

#621

What's that even in response to?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 21:52 GMT

#625

"I've been far more generous with my explanations this game" - rofl!

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 22:13 GMT

#628

"cautious and lurky" into "extremely scummy" is not 'extremely generous with explanations'

"You're asking me why we should lynch somebody we were planning on lynching yesterday? Why don't you look at the posts yesterday and find out. -.-"

and yes of course I was asking, because Sinensis had ceased to behave in the manner that led you to vote him.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 22:17 GMT

#630

So if he'd continued being cautious and lurky, you'd have lynched him for being cautious and lurky

if he stops being cautious and lurky, you lynch him for changing his behaviour

what happens if he's town??

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 22:19 GMT

#632

so you're basically wanting to lynch him off the basis of ONE POST HE MADE during day 1.

Nice.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 09 2012 22:22 GMT

#634

No, no I do not.

It was cautious, yes. Could it have betrayed a possible mindset? Yes.

Was it insanely scummy? No. No it was not.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 10 2012 00:21 GMT

#635

Ugh.

For some reason this feels like a mistake :<<<

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 10 2012 00:26 GMT

#637

No, normally I happily bludgeon my way through lynches for good or bad.

I'm not going to think about the game until tomorrow. Rest of town need to have their say and I need a clear head.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 10 2012 10:18 GMT

#666

Ever thought if you keep getting mislynched for being a stubborn asshole, you should change your style a little, Sinensis?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 10 2012 10:19 GMT

#667

where's prplhz? I want to know what he thinks about everything.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 10 2012 11:57 GMT

#671

On July 10 2012 19:52 prplhz wrote:
I lynched zentor before because he was acting antagonistic. I don't really know what to think about him but the fact that he's actively trying to piss off a confirmed townie and proven scum hunter just seems like something scum wouldn't do, especially a player like zentor. I think you might be tunneling him with your "power games" and because he is really good at pissing people off marvellosity. It really looks different from outside and I know because I've tried the inside and now I'm looking at it from the outside. I caught him in BBM2 because he was posting carefully and non-contributory (just a token case on day1, big posts with no content) but that's not how he is posting right now. This really seems more like his town meta.

I don't like how VisceraEyes is avoiding a lynch because people are switching onto easy targets (Sinensis, zentor). We have a really good case on VisceraEyes and people seems to acknowledge this but for some reason no one is voting him which I don't like. Why did slOosh change away from some guy who he says he thinks is pretty much confirmed mafia just to lynch some easy target in zentor?

I like this whole post actually. You've put your finger on why I'm feeling uncomfortable.

The thing is - was Zentor's refusal to answer my question on Sinensis (repeatedly) scummy? For definite. I mean, I only got antagonistic after I had to ask him for the third time. But why the deuce would he actually pick a whole fight with me? I mean, surely he can't be so unselfaware that he wouldn't know he would come off worse on that one. I'm just remembering WoF where, for reasons that are still a mystery to the entire community, as town he decided to piss off the entire game and get himself lynched.

He's basically talked himself into being lynched, which is super dumb as townie but perhaps on the flip side, unforgivable/unconceivable as scum. Sigh.

Actually I think I could get down with a VE lynch. Some of what's been in the cases so far I've agreed with, some not. I think the most mileage comes from examining his votes and the reasons behind them. I will go over the cases on him and his filter and see what I think. Actually as of yesterday I felt I could lynch VE, but I didn't feel the need to let that out the bag so early.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

July 10 2012 13:27 GMT

#673

Ok, there's a variety of reasons I think VE could be scum. I'm having a hard time putting them together, but I'll give it a go. Before I start, I *will* say I think some of the reasons previously given aren't strong, because they're kinda nullish (e.g. BL posting VE making filler - he (and I) always do that). Also voting many people is usually a null for VE, but the manner in which it occurred this game gives me the feeling he's scum.

This may or may not be a long post...

First of all, Zephirdd latches on to this post from VE:

On July 09 2012 00:17 Zephirdd wrote:

Show nested quote +

You know what I see from this? "I don't want to mess with you, so I'll stay on a safe spot". It's been quite a while since I've seen such a wishy washy post like this.

Zephirdd is right, extremely wishy-washy. VE's response:

On July 09 2012 03:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've played with Sin before - if Sin is town, he'll just shut down if someone is unequivocally calling him scum. I wanted to avoid that, so I wanted to make sure he understood what I was saying. If you perceive that as "wishy washy" or "hedgy" then obviously that's your right.

So yeah, I just gonna keep doin what I'm doin.

This is where I'd like to talk about VE's town play. Well, prplhz/slOosh/anyone following Movie could see - he attacked me fairly mercilessly for two cycles. And in general VE is known for pursuing his target. Yet here there is no aggression at all. "I'm not saying you're scum either" he says. Actually he had been, he did on Day 1, and he continued to do so on Day 2.

Relatedly, we have a VE defence at some of the accusations thrown at him:

On July 09 2012 10:21 VisceraEyes wrote:

Those attacking me aren't taking into account my typical town play. That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter.

Smooches.

Maybe fair enough, except what's this?

On July 10 2012 05:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
I haven't given up on the game - I'm playing it differently than normal.

I know, that's scummy as shit. Honestly if you're willing to lynch me for saying that then we've probably lost anyway. :/

He can't have it both ways. He's defending himself because it's his "typical" town play - and yet here he clearly acknowledges he is NOT playing his typical town play. This is a pretty large inherent contradiction going on. You can't defend yourself saying it's your normal town play, before going on to say you're not playing normally. Does not compute.

The manner in which he voted or did/did not pursue people also seems pretty scummy. After the initial flurry of anger at prplhz's play and cop claim (I'm still not totally 100% on it either way btw), the votes died off him. But he makes a thing at the end of Day 1 of saying "but i wanted to lynch prplhz guyzzz". Yeah except really he never pushed it. He didn't push anything. He's not actively pursued prplhz today either, or even tried to engage the rest of town on the issue (like I did).

VE told me himself recently that one way to try to differentiate between his alignments is the reasoning he gives for votes - piggybacking others or providing his own:

On July 08 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:

##Vote: Sinensis

By far the best case in the thread right now. I agree with most of slOosh's points, though I feel he's unfairly calling his responses "overly defensive" when his is the only decent case in the thread.

Here he adds nothing against Sinensis other than "I agree" and in fact his only point is that he's kinda defending Sinensis for posting defensively.

There are other little bits and bobs, like where he randomly has a go at me:

On July 10 2012 01:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why doesn't anyone want to win? I told you, vote for Sinensis. Christ, it's like you people aren't listening at all.

Marv, I agree that prplhz cop claim is horse-shit. I said this yesterday, and you've since said that you want to lynch me. So it's what the fuck ever.

At that point I had not in any way indicated I wanted to lynch VE. This is both a failure to read the thread and it also betrays a defensive, scummy mindset.

##Unvote
##Vote: VisceraEyes