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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
If we don't have a scum game to look at, how do we compare? Of course a scum Sinensis would try to play similarly to his town meta. It's why you have several players on this forum (out of this game alone, me, bugs, VE spring to mind) where it's pretty hard to distinguish our alignment because we play our scum meta so similarly to our town meta. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Then remember a whole bunch of his posts this game where he's having a go at people, emotionally lunging, playing with his heart on his sleeve or whatever? Look at how that post is constructed. That's not his 'careless' post structure (of which I could provide plenty of examples this game if you wish). That post is totally unemotional, clinical, and thought through. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
You're scum because you're playing differently than usual (not merely 'more confidently' as per Movie analysis). You're scum because you have several posts where my brow furrowed at the train of thought which pretty much never happens to me with town slOosh. You're scum because I was backing down from VE based on an emotional gut reaction to the fact he was dumping a shitload of information on to town, you effectively bullied me into voting for him without apparently at all considering his defence. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 12 2012 00:59 marvellosity wrote: You're scum because what you claimed at the time of the lynch was a 'mistake' was a wilful manipulation of the facts. You're scum because you have several posts where my brow furrowed at the train of thought which pretty much never happens to me with town slOosh. You're scum because I was backing down from VE based on an emotional gut reaction to the fact he was dumping a shitload of information on to town, you effectively bullied me into voting for him without apparently at all considering his defence. ok | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 12 2012 01:02 slOosh wrote: Drop the meta - have you ever played with me / seen me play past D1? also yes, Liar Mafia. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 11 2012 07:16 VisceraEyes wrote: But I've given reasoning for my reads! This is ridiculous guys, I don't even understand what this lynch is about. Everyone's case contains WAAAY too much insinuating scum motivation for my actions/inactions, and honestly there's no defense that will satisfy people like slOosh and prplhz who have been hardline against me all day. Your minds are made up, but that doesn't make me scum, and it doesn't change the fact that lynching me IS a mislynch. Honestly, whatever happened to a MrZentor lynch? Why when I support the lynch and give reasoning for it is everyone suddenly wanting to lynch me? I understand that some have had their minds up all day, but some actually had reasoning to be on Zentor until sentiment favored a VE lynch. I'm looking at slOosh here. The strangest part about his support of my lynch is the fact that he's completely unwilling to hear me defend myself....but I find that completely scummy because he was willing to lynch MrZentor before that. And slOosh isn't the type to be swayed by connections that don't exist, which strikes "VE is on Zentor" from the list of possibilities...so why? Why would he pull support from a Zentor lynch in favor of a VE lynch if he thinks we're both scum? And what about his mysterious read on Sinensis? All he's said on the matter is "I have my reasons" and "he's looking more townie" but never elaborates on why...especially considering he was present DURING Sinensis' defense and was arguing with him. He never comments on my comments on Sinensis, which I find scummy because if he were a townie and had a change of heart re: Sinensis, it seems to me that he'd at least be interested in what I have to say on the matter...but it's never mentioned. Not. Once. Marv mentioned it, and semi-agreed with it. But slOosh couldn't be bothered. Ultimately, I'm reading slOosh as scum. This has nothing to do with the fact that he's attacking me - it has to do with the reasons I just gave you. Prplhz checking MsZontar didn't make sense - she was on track to be the lynch today, and was the target of vigs, by the vocal townies in the thread. Sinensis would have been a much better check, or me if he's suspicious of me, or Zentor, or FUCKING ANYONE but MsZontar. You guys should seriously scrutinze prplhz if he lives tomorrow and is roleblocked again. So, my reads at time of death, is slOosh, prplhz, Sinensis. On preliminary reading I am inclined to agree with this. prplhz/Zentor interchangeable. More to come later. I couldn't actually remember what VE had said here, but I was just going through slOosh's filter and the Sinensis thing screamed at me too. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Secondly you misunderstand strongarm - it is not a 2nd shot, it's just the KP is given double strength (breaks through protects/veteran) | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Having had 2 leading candidates for the day 1 lynch, slOosh simply abandons them without further ado. He agrees on wiggles without explanation here, but WITHOUT A VOTE, and only after 3 people had voted wiggles does he join them. He gives no real explanation for why he's happy to vote wiggles over his 2 preferred candidates, only repeating others in that "he doesn't seem to be playing like his town self". He doesn't even say why HE'S not voting Sinensis, merely why others aren't. Then there's this post where he claims to have 'buyer's remorse'. Trying to look good but ever since wiggles was brought up, slOosh did nothing to push his main 2 reads. Basically what I'm getting at is this. slOosh had 2 people he said he was happy to lynch on day 1, prplhz and Sinensis (especially). But when push came to shove and the wiggles wagon started, he jumped over to wiggles without barely a peep about why this was a good idea, and he never pushed his 2 preferred lynches. Which brings us on to his interactions with Sinensis. Sinensis goes from being slOosh's primary day 1 read to... town. On July 08 2012 13:54 slOosh wrote: Well if Sinensis is stubborn town, and prplhz is weirdo town, then D1 was wild goose chase, and therefore scum probably played lazy / lurkeresque style, making sure to fit in but not really needing to put in any effort. Thereby you could probably find them among the pile of players who didn't really push town a certain direction. Would you guys agree with this assessment? Before this point there is basically no mention of why Sinensis might be town - the only mention is a post I linked above where he said "several OTHER people are feeling iffy based off Sinensis' meta". VE (the dead, confirmed townie, just as a reminder guys) had this to say: On July 11 2012 07:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm looking at slOosh here. The strangest part about his support of my lynch is the fact that he's completely unwilling to hear me defend myself....but I find that completely scummy because he was willing to lynch MrZentor before that. And slOosh isn't the type to be swayed by connections that don't exist, which strikes "VE is on Zentor" from the list of possibilities...so why? Why would he pull support from a Zentor lynch in favor of a VE lynch if he thinks we're both scum? And what about his mysterious read on Sinensis? All he's said on the matter is "I have my reasons" and "he's looking more townie" but never elaborates on why...especially considering he was present DURING Sinensis' defense and was arguing with him. He never comments on my comments on Sinensis, which I find scummy because if he were a townie and had a change of heart re: Sinensis, it seems to me that he'd at least be interested in what I have to say on the matter...but it's never mentioned. Not. Once. Marv mentioned it, and semi-agreed with it. But slOosh couldn't be bothered. Ultimately, I'm reading slOosh as scum. This has nothing to do with the fact that he's attacking me - it has to do with the reasons I just gave you. There's little else to say on the matter, VE explains it well. A bit more on this Sinensis thing later. It's been mentioned by others already, but the fact remains that he said he was happy to lynch either Zentor or VE, and later on he said he was only willing to vote VE. On July 11 2012 01:02 slOosh wrote: I don't care who we lynch, I think they are both scum. I'm comfortable with lynching all three as individuals, and even more so as a team. I also want to consolidate. I'll be trusting marv's and Zephirdd's judgements here. My preference however goes to MrZentor based on how they are keen to redirect the lynch. ##Unvote MrZentor ##Vote VisceraEyes (I'll be checking up online all day so consider my vote good on whoever). Bolded passage here - "I'll be trusting marv and Zeph's judgements". Well, what WERE our judgements? Zephirdd unvoted VE and went over to Zentor. And I was clearly feeling by the end of the day that I didn't want to lynch VE. So both the people he trusts the judgements of, wanted to get their votes off VE. Given this slOosh should be trusting our judgements and seeing why this is the case. Instead he shouts and rants and screams at me to keep lynching VE. slOosh does not look for possible reasons VE might be town despite his two most trusted reads expressing at the very least grave misgivings about the VE lynch. Scummy change of attitude folks. On July 11 2012 10:36 slOosh wrote: Think critically. Sit tight and watch a lying scum flip. I pulled this up at the time but now I'm doing it again. To remind you all, slOosh conveniently forgot in this selection of quotes the fact that he had said he was fine with lynching wiggles. He's trying to dig the boot in here and it almost worked - except unexpectedly I went back and checked slOosh's filter. Why did I go back and check? Because I inherently did not trust slOosh. When I pull him up on this he's all MISTAKE. IT'S JUST A MISTAKE. Fucking bullshit it's a mistake. It's a blatant scumslip. slOosh is normally thorough as shit but here he not only forgot something, he tried to kick VE based on twisted evidence. Again, the post where he said he was fine lynching wiggles was RIGHT ABOVE his vote on wiggles. Hard to miss. Concluding: we can analyse slOosh's actions through the day 1 and day 2 lynch. Day 1 he had 2 main reads that he abandoned easily in favour of a 3rd person with no explanation given. His strongest day 1 read (Sinensis) morphed into a town read with barely an explanation. Day 2 he says he's happy to vote for either Zentor or VE, but later demonstrates this is not the case. He says he trusts my/Zeph's judgement, but when both our judgements are we don't want to lynch VE, he rants and raves instead. He posts a bogus piece of evidence that might have slipped by if I had not gone back to check. None of his actions surrounding both lynches have been pro town in any way. These are the main salient facts. There are other little things that are hard to describe. Somewhere in my filter I said I had the most notes on slOosh of any player (and this was pretty early, so no "i always die day 1" stuff) whereas normally slOosh plays in a manner that is pretty easy to read. Basically his posting has felt off to me for most of the game. slOosh must hang. more to come on Sinensis if I get the energy | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
I said it earlier, I'm not gonna excuse anyone on 'meta' when we don't have a bloody scum game to compare his meta to. Screw meta. Let's look at this game. I would basically invite you to look at VE's filter to see some reasons on Sinensis, starting after the day 1 lynch especially. Anyway. Sinensis had lots of interaction and arguments with slOosh. Sinensis and slOosh basically had this big to and fro day 1 where slOosh was calling sinensis scum, and Sinensis was calling slOosh 'suspicious' etc. (as you can see). We know what happened to slOosh's read magically. What about Sinensis? Well actually Sinensis past this point never mentions slOosh again (cept muuuuuuuuuuch later, see below). Basically the whole day 1 interactions between these 2 are just a front, because either nothing is pushed (from Sinensis end) or the case is just fully dropped (from slOosh's end). It's such bs. Generally Sinensis has done fuck all scumhunting. I talked about this at the time but the way Sinensis pushed on Zephirdd only made people NOT want to lynch Zephirdd. It was fakey fakey scumhunting because he was never pushing anything. He votes for VE on day 2 on the basis of someone else's comments (Zeph's, his previous scumread - who let us remind ourselves, moved off VE) and saying that VE was 'less focused, desperate'. He reiterates that he's stubborn about who he votes for. But there's just no substance at all. Nothing he's done has had substance, the pushes on Zeph and VE are totally empty. He threatens me at the end of day 2 with voting for me next day for not voting VE. There's just nothing town motivated anywhere in his filter. Oh, and slOosh does pop up again, at the end of his filter: On July 12 2012 05:56 Sinensis wrote: ##vote: MrZentor A lot of people seem to think sloosh is scum. I'm not going to disagree with them. I don't believe you went this entire game being unsuspicious of Zeph, only to read sloosh's surprise case against him and be convinced in any way. Now slOosh is scum again. As per usual for Sinensis this game, no reasoning or explanations. Again, now that we know VE is town, reconsider the following passage (look inside): On July 10 2012 02:05 VisceraEyes wrote: This is huge, by my estimation. It clearly illustrates that he's not looking at the thread from the same perspective as me (town). We didn't trust VE at the time, but look at what he's saying. Sinensis is looking at the game from a different perspective to the (confirmed) townie. For some reason at the time I was the only one who actually agreed with VE's interpretation of events, everyone else attacked him for it. Now re-read and see. I wish I could make this case a bit longer. But there's not a lot else to say, because his filter is so devoid of content. What detritus is there I have picked through. Scumteam are therefore: slOosh, Sinensis, and one of prplhz, MrZentor Check on prplhz's activity. He started off aggressive but his activity and tone has tailed off. Zentor has plenty of scummy stuff but Zentor is Zentor so, meh. I think Zeph is town. Danger is MIA but it's hard to believe he's not town. I have the feeling BL is town also from how the day 2 lynch went down (his emotional response, the fact his unvote made it possible for me to save VE). | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Both confirmed townies (myself, VE) want town to lynch slOosh, Sinensis, +1. I have provided what I think are good cases. Good night | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
I've not had a notification ............................................ ##unvote | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
are you town??? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
That... that is my displeased face. I be displeased. :< | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
I was indeed roleblocked. ##Vote: slOosh | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 12 2012 20:57 GMarshal wrote: Ok, all PMs that weren't sent last night have been sent. For reference, that's all roleblock PMs, all information role PMs and all veteran hit notification PMs. Not all of these are necessarily present. This is a reminder to myself to brutally murder my cohost later. You have the *best* luck with cohosts. Thanks for clearing things up so fast. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 12 2012 12:52 slOosh wrote: This is when many voices doubted the validity of the cop claim (including confirmed towns NSH and VE [yes this is a jab at you marv, just because you flip town doesn't mean you are infallible]). The quotes below are not the only time I've indicated the claim makes me uncomfortable, I just found them quickly On July 08 2012 06:26 marvellosity wrote: Don't you dare. You completely brought this upon yourself and bugs is totally correct. If you are the cop then your play at the beginning of the day was absolutely atrocious, and COMPLETELY unbefitting of your role. You're perfectly capable of solid townie play, but instead you throw crap at the thread when you're in possession of such a power role? What the fuck, seriously? On July 08 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote: There's 2 inter-related reasons I'm wary of lynching prplhz today, being 1) I have a terrible record with assessing/lynching blue claims, 2) I have a tendency to grossly overestimate what I expect from players I have respect for (and you are one, prplhz). An example of these 2 things working together is Bang Bang, where I lynched (shot) gonzaw the claimed cop. I thought the claim was iffy, but most of all I expected MORE from his play previously (there had been holes). But I was wrong and gonzaw had simply played more suboptimally than I expected. On July 09 2012 22:18 marvellosity wrote: The prplhz cop claim I really still can't quite get over this. prplhz said "you guys forced me to claim cop". Out of 12 players, only 3 players actually placed a vote on prplhz (me, Zeph, VE). Many others actually defended him. It feels very wrong that someone would claim cop with 3 votes maximum on them. I want ALL of town's thoughts on this please. | ||
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