I don't want to close my mind to any possibility, but I think the simplest explanation in this case is true. You, Cephiro, and dedede are all 3 town.

Some people don't agree that you are town, but I really think you are. If you are scum, then good job screwing with my head.

Cephiro, I linked Risen's past games in an earlier post of mine. I'd like you to take a look. TL mafia LI and LIII.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 12:10 GMT

#683

Cephiro- yea he actually does. he looks scummy no matter his alignment. Maybe this should have been a sign to me that my read from the meta, whatever it was, shouldn't carry a lot of weight.

iGrok's post was pretty rockstar. I especially like the aftermath of Risen knee-jerking at the speed of light.

I also like that he is willing to die to go after his read.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 12:21 GMT

#688

Risen, to clarify, I'm not changing my mind on you. I still think you're town.

I realized my last few comments put that in doubt.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 12:29 GMT

#695

I think pushing Risen is going to result in two dead townies.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 12:35 GMT

#699

I 100% agree on the grush lynch.

In light of iGrok's post, I'd like to push Tali or Mr. Saturn. I think Mr. Saturn is more likely to be scum #2.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 12:40 GMT

#701

I really didn't like his behavior as the town reads became stronger. He ran out of room to hide. I posted a BS case on Tali and Saturn jumped all over it.

Risen, for your suggestion to be true, not only would dedede have to be lying, but so would grush, who is town in your scenario.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 12:48 GMT

#704

Cancel that, I had assumed that your theory had dedede lying about the switch. You said clearly earlier that that wasn't the case.

I still think dedede is town though. It's the simplest explanation.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 13:10 GMT

#714

Risen, if you really think dedede is scum, then make the case using his filter. Your scenario is possible, yes, but it doesn't stand on it's own merits just because it is possible. If dedede is scum then his filter will have scummy stuff in it. I looked, and I don't see it. If you want to convince people, show us how he is scummy.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 13:24 GMT

#718

On July 05 2012 21:10 Mister Saturn wrote:
Anyway, I still think Talismania might be scum. However I'm fine with pushing risen (I'll have to see what hiro thinks before we change our actions) since he might be scum (although I don't think he is, i still think his explosion at the start seemed townish) and since I still think you might be scum who is only just now trying the "bwahaha, I planned it all along I was playing scummy on purpose to see how people react" gambit.

Just look at this. Can we pretty please push Mr. Saturn?

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 13:42 GMT

#734

Explain to me again iGrok how taking a stock off scum #2 is a bad idea?

I don't agree with your big post, because I don't see the need to kill a townie before winning the game.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 13:42 GMT

#735

ebwop: 2 townies

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 14:51 GMT

#748

iGrok, you have done nothing this game to earn the right to call the shots.

I'm going to repost this, so it doesn't get buried.

How in the fuck is this not our push target for today?

iGrok and Cephiro, you are both wrong on Risen.

I want to ask you exactly what has he been fighting for for the past little bit? He is all-out fighting to switch the kill order from grush->risen->Mr. S to grush->Mr. S->risen? Why? He knows he's dead if Mr.S flips town anyway. Do the tone of his posts really suggest he is fighting extra hard to die a little bit later, or is it more likely that he is town and is honestly pissed that he is going to be killed for no reason?

Scum in this situation do what Mr. S is doing: clam up.

Also, I've said before to go look at TL Mafia LI. I'm not just saying that for my health. You may not love meta, but go look at that game and tell me you don't see a lot of the same stuff there as here.

Look as well at how Risen has been addressing grush. What kind of scum, in an attempt to save a teammate, first announces that said teammate is 'confirmed town,' announces he will be late vote switching, and then after the fact says SORRY BRO I TRIED. You can call that WIFOM if you want, but I don't. The simplest explanation there is that they are not teammates.

I want to hear from dedede and Talis. I want you both to consider what I said and ##push Mr. Saturn.

iGrok and Cephiro, same thing.

I want us all to push Mr. Saturn today, and have Cephiro blow his shit up on N2.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 17:29 GMT

#766

Explain why scum iGrok is championing the cause for his own death, via risen lava push

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 17:30 GMT

#767

also I really liked the "you're just bad" defense

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 17:47 GMT

#775

DK abilities don't trigger DK abilities.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 17:48 GMT

#776

and thanks for the snipe, very classy of you

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 19:01 GMT

#782

He should be shooting Mr. S regardless, no? Either you and Risen die today-> shoot Mr. S....or Mr. S gets pushed and Ceph finishes him off

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 19:10 GMT

#789

It was just a question, you need to chill.

I don't agree with it, but I'll switch.

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 22:24 GMT

#838

I'd say don't throw it. I'd prefer not to risk scum getting an item/cephiro getting roleblocked

HomerunBat

Oman114 Posts

July 05 2012 22:29 GMT

#840

@Mr. S

cephiro was right about the finger pointing. it starts and ends with the filters, if you really think I'm scum, make a case.

I have to say that your actions leading up to this deadline, are giving me doubts. I'm also trying to think of what Tali has done that has helped town.

I still think we lynch grush today. The one thing that has me convinced is that he kept calling cephiro scum after it was extremely clear that the scum kp was aimed at him. Afterwards, he said something along the lines of it being an elaborate scum conspiracy.