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Newbie Mini Mafia XVII - Page 34

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Crossfire99
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1529 Posts
June 26 2012 19:51 GMT
#661
Just saw your post milton. I don't have time to read it now. I'll be back right before the deadline to read it and make a final judgment.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 20:05 GMT
#662
Ok Crossfire. The case mostly deals with D1 stuff, since that's when I feel she made her major errors.

Also, please keep in mind that your opinion towards me has been pretty constant for a while.

Suki has already pointed out how a scum me could still be motivated to NK sciberbia. By that coin, suki's motivation in NK'ing sciberbia would have been to kill him, and then point out exactly what she pointed out.

If I'm scum, I had the option of killing either you or sciberbia. Do you honestly think I had the confidence to convince you of my case, even with NK implications in my favor?

Anyway, I'll be back shortly.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 20:22 GMT
#663

In defense of her actions suki attempts to point out that part of her reasoning behind the trackd00r attack was "to get the ball rolling." This seems like a catch-all defense for scummy actions.


I only used that reasoning once, and everyone generally seems to agree that it did get the ball rolling. You're putting too much weight on this first case.

She then pressures alan133 for making controversial/confusing statements. I think this is a little more justified here because I believe alan's logic was a little flawed. But still, are you noticing a pattern? Suki pressured two players who looked weak from their first posts. Attacking weak/illogical/confusing players is not a town motivation. It's a scum motivation attempting to get a mislynch.


Actually my case on alan was also focused around him not contributing to town, which definitely have scum motivations.


In this, she criticizes HeavOn's play while also posting a soft defense of him. It looks like she was trying to slow down the bandwagon on him while still leaving herself open to bussing him.


This is one of the points that sciberbia and other people suspicious of me like to point out. My defense was and is that I was focused on alan at the time, and a quick look over HeavOnEarth's filter didn't read especially scummy to me.

Notice how she plants the idea of bias in other people's reads on her. It seems like a way to defend herself without actually addressing the points brought against her. She also dismisses her comments on appearing bold as WIFOM, another way of deflecting pressure off of her comments. To be fair, she had spent a good bit of time defending herself D1 so this point in and of itself is not particularly damning.


Eh. Nothing to say here. I was genuinely confused why s0lstice was targetting me. I had previously addressed his case on me in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15079153

I find it odd that suki has attacked me so harshly for being nervous when it's pretty obvious that she knows there is good reason for being nervous before a lynch. After all it seems like she was pretty nervous too. Double standard much?


Haha. I quoted a post from Xatalos that was the exact type of 'nervous' post that you made - one that's made from scum motivations. Comparing your nervous post and my 'nervous' post is like comparing apples and oranges.

Also your comment at the end... Well in like 4 hours you'll see that my post was made with genuine town perspective :o

Neways.

@Crossfire - Glad you support me. I think we got this in the bag.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 20:26 GMT
#664
On June 27 2012 05:05 Miltonkram wrote:
Ok Crossfire. The case mostly deals with D1 stuff, since that's when I feel she made her major errors.

Also, please keep in mind that your opinion towards me has been pretty constant for a while.

Suki has already pointed out how a scum me could still be motivated to NK sciberbia. By that coin, suki's motivation in NK'ing sciberbia would have been to kill him, and then point out exactly what she pointed out.

If I'm scum, I had the option of killing either you or sciberbia. Do you honestly think I had the confidence to convince you of my case, even with NK implications in my favor?

Anyway, I'll be back shortly.


See, now we get into the real WIFOM-y stuff. I mean, this is such a sub-optimal NK for milton, there's no way he would have made it. Therefore he must be town. Therefore even though you have a strong town read of suki, you should vote suki cuz clearly she's the only one who would have NK'd sciberbia.

See, it goes both ways. That's why I said, don't make your final decision purely based on this last NK. Look at all the scummy and suspicious things Milton has done for the whole game, compared to my play, and judge for yourself.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 20:39 GMT
#665
---snip
Haha. I quoted a post from Xatalos that was the exact type of 'nervous' post that you made - one that's made from scum motivations. Comparing your nervous post and my 'nervous' post is like comparing apples and oranges.

Also your comment at the end... Well in like 4 hours you'll see that my post was made with genuine town perspective :o

So my "nervous" post was scummy because I tried to get HeavOn to post before he died? I don't see how trying to get a player on the lynching block to post is scummy behavior, whether that player is scum or town.

More analysis will be incoming.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 20:44 GMT
#666
Just gonna re-post this.


His nervousness pre-lynch of HeavOn:


@ Heaven
There are a lot of people jumping on your case really quickly. Not gonna lie, it's making me a little nervous. Please post some sort of defense or at the very least what kind of reads you have on players whenever you have the time.


This quote reminds me a LOT of a quote by Xatalos in Mafia XV:

Suki, where are you when you need to defend yourself? The bandwagon on you is gathering steam, but you're nowhere to be seen. And I don't even think you're Mafia. Do a favor for everyone and show up right now.


This was what Xatalos posted in the game when there was a bandwagon growing on me while I was away. Basically, it's a last-ditch effort for mafia to tell their teammate to post, JUST IN CASE they weren't checking the mafia QT but were checking the main thread.

When Milton posted this, it stuck out to me as really odd. Now I think this is a pure scum slip, disguised to be a 'helpful townie' post. There is definite mafia motivation for this post, but not really any townie motivation.

Now contrast this with his certainty of trackd00r and unforgiven being scum. There has been no hesitation in his reads, no questioning of who could possibly be mafia. The person on the chopping block has been his main read every time.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 20:48 GMT
#667
I dunno what you're trying to pull Milton. Stop trying to spin my play as scummy cuz it's not.

You're fighting a losing battle going after me cuz I'm green, green as grass.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 21:03 GMT
#668
No suki, you're trying to spin my play as scummy. I know I'm town, and I'm pretty sure Crossfire is town too. That makes you scum, and I will pursue you as such.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 21:12 GMT
#669
@ Crossfire
I'm going to stop addressing suki directly. Arguing with a scum player is like running your head against a brick wall. I've got more important things to focus on. I hope I've answered your concerns on the "nervous" issue. My point with that post was to get information out of HeavOnEarth, whether he was scum or town.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 21:43 GMT
#670
I've got a few things for you to think about Crossfire.

- If I NK'd sciberbia, I was going all-in on winning the WIFOM war in your head. Sciberbia was much more receptive to the stances and viewpoints I took. Even though a NK of you would have reflected badly on me, I'm still pretty sure sciberbia was going to go for the suki lynch come day cycle. Suki's best bet was NK'ing sciberbia and then hoping that she could convince you to keep your stance. Basically it comes down to this, do you think suki made the optimal scum play or do you think I made the suboptimal scum play?

- Suki pressured sciberbia pretty heavily over the night cycle and then backed off. I'm thinking she wanted to test the waters of a sciberbia mislynch, and then realizing the attack wouldn't work, she backed off and decided he was better off as a NK. Think about it. It makes sense.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 22:50 GMT
#671
I've got a better plan for scum suki: kill sciberbia off waaaay sooner. Honestly you must think I'm daft to allow sciberbia to live so long if I was scum.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 22:57 GMT
#672
@ Crossfire
I've got to leave for work.

I'm sorry that things are turning out this way. I completely understand how you think I'm scum. Many of the points that you and suki made about me are valid, and it's a testament to how much I need to improve my town play. This loss isn't on you, it's on me.

Suki played with a much greater sense of urgency than me after D1. I confess I got a little complacent considering the great odds we had after N1. I can see how that makes her look quite a bit townier by comparison.

I'm kicking myself for letting her frame me, but she played a really good game and deserves the win.

@ suki
Good job. I can't help but feel really disappointed at the way this is turning out, but don't let that take away from your win. You definitely put the work in to win this game. Enjoy the win, you earned it! You get a very well deserved GG from me.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 22:59 GMT
#673
Dude that is not a scummy thing to say at all. Your words should be 'damn you guys caught me. GG town, you won.'
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
June 26 2012 23:09 GMT
#674
I'll be back in an hour to see the final results.
Miltonkram
Profile Joined December 2011
United States310 Posts
June 26 2012 23:12 GMT
#675
Nope, it's not. GG to you because you're winning this thing. Don't kick a guy when he's down please.
Crossfire99
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1529 Posts
June 26 2012 23:56 GMT
#676
Oh and Suki, by “I got your back,” I mean I’m standing behind you forcing you to the gallows where I will be able to watch your lifeless, limp body dangle from the noose after the lynching has occurred.

##Unvote
##Vote suki


I had a plan too, Milton. It just happened to be a more long term plan.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 27 2012 00:00 GMT
#677
Final votecount:

suki:
Miltonkram
Crossfire

Miltonkram:
suki

suki to be lynched. Endgame coming up.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 27 2012 00:00 GMT
#678
Fe fi fo fum.
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
June 27 2012 00:01 GMT
#679
ATOBTTR
Crossfire99
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1529 Posts
June 27 2012 00:01 GMT
#680
I better be right...
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