Newbie Mini Mafia XVI - Page 2

On June 10 2012 21:11 Lazermonkey wrote:
That's cool for me.

Yes, that's what you should've done in this case. Can you mention even one thing in this post that isn't already in ha236s post?

I don't think it's an exaggeration. You've made 7 posts so far(not counting the /in-post).
1 is about how you missquoted
1 is about how you think Ha236 is not scum(but this is a crap post as you basically only says that).
1 is your introction post
4 is about me
So basically you have two useless posts, 4 about me and one that is not. So 80% of your posts of substance is about me.

First you told Release to ease the pressure on grush. Then you also accused my case against grush of being bad. You are also one of the few people that havn't yet put any pressure on grush. This is ''soft defense'' in my eyes. You havn't said you don't think he is scum but if he flips green then you will be among those who looks least guilty.

It's intresting that you keep saying that the case on ha236 is so weak when there are already a couple of people willing to vote for him. Surely there must be at least something with his play that is suspicous? ''Lazermonkey then jumped to this idea. Maybe Solstice and Lazermonkey are scumbros and tried to start a bandwagon?'', so the fact that I thought there were something worth of notice in his post makes us both scum? eh...


Lolwat. This is like the opposite of what I did. Your first posts was insanly strange and with lack of logic. Yet I didn't post a case on you. It was only after you had posted no more than 3 posts against me, all filled with crap that I wrote the actual case.


I don't know, that is for you to decide as you are the scum : ). I can think of plenty of alternatives. This also adds up to my point about your indecisiveness of grush. You pull the action away from him, doesn't push him at all yet you say we should lynch him without giving any alternatives?


Why so scared of voting me? Why would I write this case if you were a townie? Either admitt your very flawed logic or you should belive that I am scum. You did neither. And you even said earlier in the post that my play was much like scum play and also you thought there was a chance for me and s0Lstice to be scumbros. And yet you don't vote me...

I have answered all you questions. You however failed to answer one of mine. Why do you not think Ha236 looks scummy?

On June 10 2012 21:12 Vivax wrote:
Good day guys.

I opened this thread with the expectation of everyone pointing his finger at me for lurking so heavily the first half of day 1, for which I apologize now.

I have had a REALLY shit day yesterday, and I didn't have any motivation whatsoever to get into the internet. I am not very willing to specify what happened yesterday since this is still the internet, I'll just mention that it involved me driving.
Now that it's Sunday, I can lean back a bit, gonna have quite some shit going on from tomorrow on, but I feel that I can keep contributing to this game in spite of the circumstances, but don't expect me to be online whenever you are.

Oh, and you should also know where I'm located to know the times I'm posting at: Austria/CET.

Time to start Top-down:

Like I already mentioned, I expected everyone to suspect me cause of policy lynching.
Surprisingly, that's not the case.
The policy talk quickly resulted into Release squeezing grush like a lemon throughout the game, but grush results to be a pretty dry one, just releasing unjuicy drops which only help to fortify the suspicions against him.

Frankly I think Release has a really aggressive playstyle reminding me of my own last game, it's a great way to gain transparent information from other people and to a lesser extent from the accused ones, but also involves risks of all kind.

The subsequent posts regaridng this case all revolve around the initial posts as tells.
My verdict is:
Release looks like he's tunneling pretty hard with the aggressive style, on the other hand I have to give him credit for getting out so much information from this case, town really IS busy due to this.
Grush, well, if he's town I would be able to understand his somewhat angry, resignated answers as follow-up. If he's scum I would also be able to understand his high amount of one-liners with the least possible amount of information.
However, his first posts really weren't helpful to town, so I'll treat him as suspicious, but not definitely guilty. I feel it's too early for me to cast a vote on him, he kind of reminds me of + Show Spoiler + last game, but less lurking.
If he's the only alternative to a No lynch, you'll have my vote nontheless.

I'm going to post more very soon, I'd prefer to keep my posts focused on single cases since I have to post a lot at once.

On June 10 2012 22:22 Vivax wrote:
Okay, I've been doing a stance analysis on the grush case and here's my promised post:

s0lstice prefers to go on with policy discussion in the first posts and goes on with it until he outs for the night.
When he's back, he completely drops grush and the policy discussion and puts his FoS on ha2etc.

Release thinks grush is guilty. Pretty much everyone agreed on grushs post about 'nothing to discuss' being a really bad suggestion for town play. Many dropped the case or defended grush in spite of this.

KtheZ notices the overconfidence of Release against grush and points out the danger of tunneling. But he also believes grush to have made scummy moves. I find his semi-calculations pretty strange tbh, but I guess it's his way of FoSing.

ShiaoPi has one post in which he says people should stop tunneling grush and instead pressure ha2etc. . What strikes me here is that he wants to pressure ha2etc. for actually defending grush. I find this to be contradictory.

Lazermonkey notices grush's suspicious posts and focuses on the people defending him in consequence after placing his FoS on grush.

ha2etc. soft-defends grush.

The_Zen_Man soft-defends grush.

I'm keeping my summary of the swedes in this thread rather short cause there are complex cases developing around them and I think these deserve an in-depth analysis before a summary.

On June 11 2012 05:29 Vivax wrote:
Here's an inofficial vote count somewhat including the order.

grush: Release
ha236: s0lstice, Release
The_Zen_Man: Lazermonkey
grush57: KTheZ
s0lstice: ha236
Release: ha236

Guys, we're at close danger of a no-lynch. I'm not very satisfied with ha236 as option cause I find his first posts regarding Lazermonkey and Release to be true, but on the other hand he didn't make a single case except for OMGUS ones now in the end and instead only spent time defending grush and himself.

It was a pretty bad day 1 imo, and it can get even worse if we will have to further lurk in the dark, you'll have my vote on ha236 for the sake of the lynch, but be aware of the fact that I'll gladly switch it for any other majority.

##vote ha236

@ s0lstice

odd analysis? To me town play seems to be messed up atm and you should actually thank me for getting a bit of transparency in here. Every single and good player would make such a summary in a case before going on and accusing single persons. I doubt one would want to play with a narrow sight.

On June 11 2012 06:21 Vivax wrote:
Needless summarization? That is the type of summarization a good townie uses to get an idea of the connections someone had once he flips. If grush gets lynched, you can look up my summary and check the connections between grush and other players. Just cause you don't see the use doesn't mean it doesn't have any.

Btw, I can prove you are being selective since I didn't see you pick on the following summary yet. I just wonder if you are being selective on purpose cause raising suspicion on me would further increase the chance of a No lynch or if it's by mistake.
While working on Lazermonkeys case against The_Zen_Man i found another 'needless summarization':

+ Show Spoiler +

Regarding The_Zen_Man case:

I especially liked LazerMans point regarding the contradiction between the FoS on him, but the vote on grush. It looks like The_Zen_Man doesn't believe much in his own case.
We also have to consider that The_Zen_Man mostly used ha236 points already posted to soft-defend grush. That would allow scum to deflect attention to ha236 again in case gursh flips green.

That's about the latest points made by Lazermonkey, now to my own analysis, I'll be especially focusing on The_Zen_Man's first posts:



1. Here's the broken promise: We still have no analysis on grush from you. In a lynch all liars environment you would already be in huge trouble.

2. Without the analysis, you proceed to soft-defend him.
The problem about your posts is the way you do that:
You tell Release to focus on someone else. Imagine if he suddenly switched target like you propose, that would make him look quite inconsistent...and scummy.

3. The opinions on lynching. I mean, seriously? This part confuses the hell out of me.
We should lynch lurkers, but on the other hand you say it will probably result in a mislynch.
Then you actually say that we might gain information without a lynch. How is that so? Both points lack reasoning behind them and contradict the other points in your post.
Your opinion on lynching policy is wishy washy and no opinion, you seem to promote everything at once.

The next posts show your support of ha, always disproving points others make against grush, but at the same time you emphasize your beliefs that he looks scummy.



Once ha gets into the crosshair, all of sudden you think it's best to drop all your defenses of grush and to lynch him.

When Lazermonkey actually notices your suspicious behavior:



I think this quotation of mine reminds that he does have a point about that. You took many of the points about grushs defense from ha236, allowing you to deflect responsibility in case they turn out to be wrong.

Looking at your and ha2's posts, your stances are soft and inconsistent as opposed to his, so I'll let you know: If there's a choice between a majority on you and a majority on ha2, I will pick the one against you.

##FoS The_Zen_Man

On June 11 2012 07:20 Vivax wrote:
I've got the vote for Zen_Man ready, I'll give him about 30 minutes more time to post a defense, then I will proceed to vote for him.

We have a majority on him, that's for sure. I think even 6, not 5. Count me in in case he doesn't post a nukeproof defense.

On June 12 2012 20:33 Vivax wrote:
Sucks that s0lstice got lynched, he was one of the few active posters here. With people being lazy it's even easier for mafia to choose the active ones to get killed first. GG and thanks for the activity yo.

Let's get back to the real stuff, I think we have a good clue of the direction to move into:

• I don't read ha2 scum yet, but I find his silence since the mislynch and the nightkill to be strange.
  And by silence I mean absence of good townie play. He's still a suspect who needs a decisive defense, and he didn't make any cases outside of OMGUS ones. Need people to come out and play, that's why you signed in for...if you are townie
  
  
• Same goes for grush, since the attention switched away from him he decided to go on holidays. Still no proper townie work there, just short posts with short resumes.
  Wtf:
  
  
  On June 12 2012 09:25 grush57 wrote:
  Damn, they killed one of my town reads. Well, I'm fine with ha or KtheZ.
  
  
  You are asking for a lynch here, scum or not.
  Now he's suddenly one of your town reads, nice that you tell us once he's dead, everyone could say what you said.
  But even better, you don't post a single reason for you thinking that ha or KTheZ should be good lynch candidates, you are implying that others should do the work for you, and you even announce yourself for a jump on a bandwagon against these two. That's either a scumslip or really really bad townie play.
  
  
• KTheZ shows activity when he has to. But like with the latter two, I feel he's being lazy about it, aside from the fact that I don't like his way of shaping his defense post, it's a wall of text.

I have no decisive scumreads yet. But I'll pick one of the three based on his post quality, activity levels and gut feeling:

##Vote grush57