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+ Show Spoiler +AAHHHHH! Just deleted a post!!!!!!!
sorry about poor formatting but i am in a rush
i am up to date but i have yet to look in detail at much
If anyone gets to shoot toad it better be me, i have waited for far too long for this. (i currently don't think he is scum though)
No more "Hey you shoot this guy or i will shoot you!" posts. There needs to be some sort of public consensus about who gets shot and who shoots. If such a move results is a misfire then town is still left facing the same targets expect with once cycle less and another lynch candidate (the person that was selfish enough to shoot like that)
Mr. Zentor appear to be looking at the game form the Mafia perspectice:
+ Show Spoiler +"as I doubt the mafia would make up something like that;"
"This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say."
"This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it."
"That's exactly what scum would want to happen"
"*Assuming we're correct about the 1 godfather thing"
"The balls of steel was the sort of detail which sum doesn't have the time or energy to fabricate."
"and it seems improbable that either mafia or sk would have this power."
"RoL lurking is exactly what a mafia would do after successfully claiming miller"
"I wasn't aware that the host gave mafia sample role pms. (A good reason for why I'm not mafia. )" Besides many of those statements are meaningless or invalid.
other things about Zentor:
+ Show Spoiler +"Rastaban is scum, so why would you give him the chance of shooting me?" His accusation is unsupported. His earlier posts(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15046668 & http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15059532)indicated that he thought suspicious players should carry out the shots. But he objects to a player he suspects is scum carrying out a shot. "I haven't been lurking for days. -.-
If you want to find somebody who has been lurking for days, look at Kenpachi." I don't like him trying to deflect attention from himself onto "arbitratry lurker" "Apparently I always look scummy regardless of alignment. -.-" This statement and everything it represents is worthy of several bullets.
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I will be back in a few hours
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On June 16 2012 01:17 MrZentor wrote:Well, the first 3 pages of Toad's filter is him talking about the setup and a bunch of stuff that isn't scum hunting. One thing I found that seems especially scummy is his response to RoL trying to shoot him. Look at it from a town perspective: RoL claimed to not have a gun. He tries to shoot you. If he lied about his gun and actually ends up shooting you, he's basically confirmed scum. If he actually doesn't have a gun like he claimed, nothing happens. It's a win win, but look at Toad's response. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 06:10 Toadesstern wrote:
are you crazy, wtf is wrong with you Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 06:11 Toadesstern wrote:
ooh. holy crap don't scare me like that... This is the response I'd expect from scum. They're so afraid of getting killed, especially first day, that they overreact and completely disregard all past information. And recently, Toad claimed he couldn't read Talis, which is basically the easiest thing for scum to do. (and he tried to kill me) 
+ Show Spoiler +talismania, Gun Enforcement Agent (Scum) has been shot
- Hide Spoiler [Role] -
Welcome to Bang Bang Mafia 2!
You are the Gun Enforcement Agent!
As a government agent you are in the business of enforcing the law - your own! You are aligned with Scum and don't give a shit what the USA thinks of gun control. Your bosses won't allow you to carry a gun but you can steal a gun from any player in the game and use it any following day. Whether you are successful or not the player will be alerted that a theft occurred (or failed). You can do this ONCE per game.
You win by outnumbering the Town at any point during the Day. Good luck!
But if the mafia stole RoL's gun then they would not have been surprised or worried by him announcing that he didn't have a gun or proving it by typing a kill command in the thread. So any "overreaction" would have to be faked.
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Well i think Toad is making sense.
Zealos can you put the red text aside and give an explanation that relies on more than just a "Vague feeling of oddness"?
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On June 16 2012 06:14 layabout wrote:
Well i think Toad is making sense.
Oh god what have a done??
Due to his last post I am now open to the idea that Mr. Zentor is in fact clueless and not mafia.
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RoL are you around?
Have you anything to say about Wiggle's case against you?
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On June 16 2012 06:22 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 06:20 layabout wrote:
RoL are you around?
Have you anything to say about Wiggle's case against you? I would love to hear his thought son the situation but any case against ROL is absurd right now, he is obviously town at this point.
Do you think it was absurd when he posted it?
There was an awful lot going on but Wiggles didn't bat an eyelid. He posted his case and ran to the hills.
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On June 16 2012 07:01 Dirkzor wrote:
Posting something pregame and posting something after the game have started stating that it was a pregame idea are 2 totally different things.
I wasn't in the game and haven't read it. Only the first post to compare as supersoft asked. Talis' post was _ingame_ and thus worth reading to find his alignment. You can argue that Talis' post could have been made as both town or mafia - but is was still an INGAME post. Not pregame like you state continiously.
And no I'm not calling you a liar because of the post comparing. I'm calling you aliar because you say you called Talis scum when you in fact did not. You called him a nullread and the later used soft roundabout ways of calling him scum.
I am sure that Talismania said that he wrote/thought of it before the game began so in a sense it was "pregame" it also follows that it was not related to his alignment or reflective of how he tries to make himself appear town.
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anyway stuff that.
Stealing RoL's gun made RoL look very bad since we where unaware of that mechanic. Talismana's flip has made RoL extremely difficult to lynch, and mafia will have known his flip would have caused this, thus the only time mafia could have pushed him would be before talismania dies. Since mafia would be unable to predict the time of his death it would make sense for them to try to lynch RoL early on.
One player has ade it his mission to do just that and so;
My Finger of suspicion + Show Spoiler +
is pointed firmly at Mr. Wiggles
+ Show Spoiler +Early on he spends time discussiung stragety with VE. He advocates millers claiming. He seems very concerned about wasting cycles by letting players shoot recklessly. He agrees with those voicing suspicions against gonzaw commenting about how he shouldn't be focussed on defending himself but on hunting scum. He suggests searching for another suspicios player to shoot gonzaw or for gonzaw to shoot. He stresses the importance of RoL proving that he doesn't have a gun. He says that if RoL does not prove he cannot shoot then they should kill him. (RoL had said that he would be absent so it's possible that he may have done this to push someone else into shooting RoL while he could not respond). He re-explains this point in a few posts and stresses that if he is lying then they should kill RoL*. *Note: Since the thread can verify whether or not RoL has a gun ("prove it by typing the command or we shoot you") it makes absolutely no sense for RoL to be lying. So this posturing is worth next to nothing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=725&topic_id=340480http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15088363He is around at the end of the day. Surprise surprise RoL was not lying. The thread is focussed on choosing between Payl Toad and Zentor. There are threats flying around. The thread is disordered and chaotic. Explanations have been flung out of the window and people are shoving their guns in each others faces and exchanging insults about their respective parentage. Wiggles seems oblivious to all of this and pushes RoL. What is strange is that if wiggles advocated shooting him if he was lying and shooting him if he wasn't lying why it took so long for him to get round to telling the thread that he thuoght they should shoot him. He also does not stick around to weigh in on what was happening (the shot "decision" restore order or try redirect attention to his case.
Key points:
He is concerned about poor or reckless shots in his opening post
- He supports shooting gonzaw because gonzaw is focussing on his own defence, this is a poor reason and he should be aware of that.
- Over multiple posts he emphasises the need for RoL to prove that he cannot shoot and says that he cannot take the claim at face value, this is his primary reason for pressuring RoL.
- When RoL shows that he cannot shoot Wiggles posts a case against him anyway.
- When Wiggles posts his case he ignores both the reckless play (that he was supposedly concerned about) and the important issues at hand
- Wiggles has focussed on RoL to the point of ignoring nearly everything else, especially the lynch (shot)
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sorry about the formatting but i have other stuff to do
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What's this?
On June 16 2012 07:22 layabout wrote:anyway stuff that. Stealing RoL's gun made RoL look very bad since we where unaware of that mechanic. Talismana's flip has made RoL extremely difficult to lynch, and mafia will have known his flip would have caused this, thus the only time mafia could have pushed him would be before talismania dies. Since mafia would be unable to predict the time of his death it would make sense for them to try to lynch RoL early on. One player has ade it his mission to do just that and so; My Finger of suspicion + Show Spoiler +is pointed firmly at Mr. Wiggles+ Show Spoiler +Early on he spends time discussiung stragety with VE. He advocates millers claiming. He seems very concerned about wasting cycles by letting players shoot recklessly. He agrees with those voicing suspicions against gonzaw commenting about how he shouldn't be focussed on defending himself but on hunting scum. He suggests searching for another suspicios player to shoot gonzaw or for gonzaw to shoot. He stresses the importance of RoL proving that he doesn't have a gun. He says that if RoL does not prove he cannot shoot then they should kill him. (RoL had said that he would be absent so it's possible that he may have done this to push someone else into shooting RoL while he could not respond). He re-explains this point in a few posts and stresses that if he is lying then they should kill RoL*. *Note: Since the thread can verify whether or not RoL has a gun ("prove it by typing the command or we shoot you") it makes absolutely no sense for RoL to be lying. So this posturing is worth next to nothing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=725&topic_id=340480http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15088363He is around at the end of the day. Surprise surprise RoL was not lying. The thread is focussed on choosing between Payl Toad and Zentor. There are threats flying around. The thread is disordered and chaotic. Explanations have been flung out of the window and people are shoving their guns in each others faces and exchanging insults about their respective parentage. Wiggles seems oblivious to all of this and pushes RoL. What is strange is that if wiggles advocated shooting him if he was lying and shooting him if he wasn't lying why it took so long for him to get round to telling the thread that he thuoght they should shoot him. He also does not stick around to weigh in on what was happening (the shot "decision" restore order or try redirect attention to his case. Key points: He is concerned about poor or reckless shots in his opening post
- He supports shooting gonzaw because gonzaw is focussing on his own defence, this is a poor reason and he should be aware of that.
- Over multiple posts he emphasises the need for RoL to prove that he cannot shoot and says that he cannot take the claim at face value, this is his primary reason for pressuring RoL.
- When RoL shows that he cannot shoot Wiggles posts a case against him anyway.
- When Wiggles posts his case he ignores both the reckless play (that he was supposedly concerned about) and the important issues at hand
- Wiggles has focussed on RoL to the point of ignoring nearly everything else, especially the lynch (shot)
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On June 16 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote:
so what's happening?
You are about to make a game changing post.
And I am about to sleep.
Right now though very little is happening.
Expect for, you know, the universe expanding and shit.
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As of yesterday i was convinced that he was mafia. I was practically yelling at my computer and refreshing my inbox as i sat by and watched pages 44 onwards.
The main things that made me thing this were his repeated comments that seemed to be coming from a mafia perspective. They also felt out of place and a little unnecessary.
The one thing i will say is that at certain points one should consider the possible mafia motivations for doing something or what the likely mafia plays are but you must do so carefully.
I changed my mind when he made this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15096163
there were a number of reason he could have chosen to provide us with. But he provides us with a weak reason that i think someone that knew mafia had a gunstealer would not come up with and would not jump to immediately. Since mafia knew they had a gunstealer this suggests to me that he is not mafia.
I also do not like assuming that a bus is taking place. Bussing would have been unnecessary for talismania and i did not perceive that he was in any danger of being shot until supersoft went nuts which would further weaken that assumption. In space station mafia Mr. Zentor was town and was pushed as an easy lynch. It appears that that has happened in this game (he was being pushed by mafia). Neither of these would be reason alone but they are worth considering.
I will also give him town points for acting like he cares because i believe that we should encourage players to do that.
His concern about shooting town suggests that he does have a gun so if scum he would have to be a GF. If we have to assume that he is a GF in order for him to be scum then again it feels like we would be pushing it. His reaction to being told he has to shoot makes him look green in my eyes.
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i was also suspicious of his unreasoned position changes about gonzaw and confused by this comment:
If what Toad says is true, then it isn't really THAT anti town to shoot a few minutes into the day, because then we'll basically have a 48 hour night.
Right?
since he attacked chaoser for wanting to shoot early.
(still think he is town though)
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since the sk has to kill 1 per cycle wouldn't it make more sense for him to be the sk than mafia?
either way i refuse to believe that a townie would do that.
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How come there was no role reveal for Mr. Wiggles?
Mr. Wiggles has been killed
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Just because the shot will not happen today doesn't mean we can't discuss and decide what it is. We could even decide a shot and then take it at the very start of the day (so we would effectively be in the same place we would have been if MZ hadn't shot but minus 1 townie.)
We have to shoot MZ.
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-3 if both night kills go off...
well curse you MZ!
It worth mentioning that the mafia wincon in talismania's pm was
You win by outnumbering the Town at any point during the Day
with 13 alive thats 3 mafia and 1 sk and 9 town (3 : 1 : 9)
we will (probably) have (3 : 1 : 7) at the start of tomorrow
which is (probably) mylo if scum have a dayshot.
The multple night kill essentially confirm the existence of an sk and a lot of this depends on what the SK does. They should be aiming at scum for now though.
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What would happen if a Gun enforcement agent attempted to steal a gun from a serial killer?
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I think we should make use of the daytime before shooting.
I doubt that Meapak is a godfather.
+ Show Spoiler +I think it has already been said but talismania's role makes the existence of a godfather role very unlikely (although set-up speculation and trying to second guess the host is a little dodgy).
When you consider the power of the godfather role one can't help but feel that Meapak being a godfather would be absurd.( A godfather can daykill town to end the day and use their nightkill.)
I doubt that Meapak is the SK.
+ Show Spoiler +If there was no medic protect then i fail to see why Meapak would do what he did as an SK.
If no one claims a medic protect then it is unlikely that he is an SK.
If that is the case then Meapak is probably town.
+ Show Spoiler +His shot was reckless and recklessness is more of a town trait than a mafia one This is because mafia often feel like have to act carefully and think things through thoroughly before acting
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EPT
