Maybe I was being me again and making it overly complicated, but I figured you'd both shoot Unforgiven.

You needed to get him off your back and needed to eliminate someone who said he wasn't looking at ShiaoPi. Figured ShiaoPi would make the same shot because he came out looking so bad that his best bet was to keep making you seem scummy, so he had to shoot Unforgiven as well and start throwing out WIFOM. Which he...didn't do.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 09 2012 00:26 GMT

#729

On June 09 2012 09:17 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
Well, i had to login a lot form my phone, and honestly i lost interest at some point, i think it was after VIvax was lynched, you can show the way to someone, but you cant walk it for them.

The reason we got on your case is because you didn't "show the way." Pretty quickly you started posting one liners and conclusions without much else. When you argued your side, you never did so constructively.

And it wasn't just the loss the one-liners after you lost interest, because you got called out for being an asshole N1.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 09 2012 00:33 GMT

#734

We're all just making it up? Both scum AND town thought you were disruptive and anti-town?

On June 02 2012 10:33 s0Lstice wrote:
This is the last I'm going to say on this. It has nothing to do with this Mafia game. I'm even going to spoiler it.
Unforgiven
+ Show Spoiler +

Do you see anybody else here calling other people names? Want to know why it's just you? Because you're being an asshole. Assholes insult people, and then tell them not to take it personal, like that makes it ok. This being a game doesn't give you license to be condescending and disrespectful. In fact, it's the opposite. If you want respect, you show respect. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, you have made this game less fun with your recent posts.

He was spot on.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 09 2012 00:51 GMT

#744

You just didn't really have an option. It WOULD have looked like grasping at straws, but that would have been all scum Shiao had. You bringing up Milton felt the same way.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 09 2012 21:52 GMT

#764

Haha, I'll be sticking around Marv. Gonna keep it to one game at a time, and probably try Newbie XVII over another full game, but I'm enjoying it despite the incorrect reads. Happy to keep discussing this, I feel like I lost out on some of the game from replacing in, but not enough that I can't learn a bunch from it.

Also, to anyone, the NK stuff kept bugging me since this game ended. I SHOULD have brought it up in thread, and we could have at least discussed it. But I'd like to work through the reasoning, because I didn't like using the NK to factor into the decision.

Either Xat is or Shiao is scum. Neither wants to NK the other, need them alive for the lynch. So they're left choosing between Milton, unforgiven, and me.

I figured I'd be kept up because I'd been so unsure, so I looked like a swing vote that could be convinced one way or the other. For scum ShiaoPi, I had the same read as he did on golden and had found Xatalos scummier than ShiaoPi. For scum Xatalos, I'd come over to lynch heist, and seeing him flip would probably make me rethink my reads and lynch ShiaoPi.

That leaves Unforgiven and Milton. Xatalos needs to shoot Unforgiven, because Unforgiven was looking between he and I for the final scum. ShiaoPi needs to shoot Milton, who was sure the final mafia was Shiao, and can't shoot Unforgiven, because Unforgiven indicated he'd be willing to jump on the Xatalos lynch.

Given that, should I have actually factored the NK in? I figured each player had such an obvious target that the NK was pure WIFOM. Scum Option A's optimal target got NKed, but the target was obvious to Scum Option B, but it was obvious that it was obvious, etc. etc.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 10 2012 21:37 GMT

#779

Yeah, up until the last 20 minutes or so I was still on the fence, since I'd found you town and Xatalos mafia before heist's flip, but I don't know that I was going to budge after that. After the last lynch, and after finding Crossfire scummy in XIII but lynching Hyaach on that final day, I honestly didn't want to spend much time looking things over, figuring that the less I thought about it the more right I'd be.

Frankly, your not bringing up the NK should have stuck out in my mind, but I didn't pay attention to it. You made all the other arguments, including asking me to look at milton, but didn't try and leverage the NK.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 10 2012 22:54 GMT

#783

I guess couldn't have hurt is true, because we got the worst outcome possible, but, at least to me, you shouldn't have been the one to bring up that discussion.

I agree that we should have discussed it, but I think the context in which the NK was brought up was very important. Had milton or I initiated discussion, we discuss. But had you initiated the discussion, I think I would have been more dismissive of the idea because it was one of scum ShiaoPi's ways to handle the NK - kill milton/me OR kill unforgiven and bring it up. So for me, it's a failure on our part, but not yours.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 11 2012 01:28 GMT

#789

Oh man, let's not even get into posting more. I thought about holding things up, talking through a couple thoughts in thread and with marv in pms, but I was still so frustrated from my read on heist that I didn't want to give myself time to change my mind and start playing the what if game.

I even thought about REALLY drawing things out and suggesting a no-lynch, but assumed I'd be strangled through the computer. If we reeeeeeally wanted it, could have gotten another 120 hours of discussion in, but I'm in agreement that it would have been a waste of time and we weren't going to constructively analyze the situation for very long if at all.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 11 2012 22:01 GMT

#798

Bah. Not to take anything away from Xat, or to give us more credit, but I wonder if things would have played out different if you had started the game or if Golden had played it out. We couldn't really give you a pass, but at the same time you didn't really have any way to argue back against anything Golden said/did D1.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

June 11 2012 22:38 GMT

#800

I think ShiaoPi did that to the best of his ability, but it wasn't really up to him. Hell, I was leaning town on him and swapped almost entirely based on D1 (which was dumb).