Liar Game Mini Mafia

Original Message From slOosh:
Same here, can't really go after the other remaining scum until we lynch the ones we already found.

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
Given that both sandro and syllo are unlynchable then obviously that leaves prpl.

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
prpl or sandro. Neither has done sweet fuck all given all the suspicion that was on both of them and yet both are ignored for 0 known reason today. Instead people who are actively speaking out against them are the lynch targets. Seems very very very fishy.

If i had to choose anyone other than those 2 currently it would be syllo for his post guarenteeing that sheth was scum (it shows an absolute opinion) that he has not shown on any of his other reads, yet he is not pushing that read.

Original Message From Cephiro:
Apology accepted.

Original Message From EchelonTee:
.........

I really hope you're not the DT and that you claimed to Cephiro. Even if you checked him and got back green, GFs? Framers? =/ If you know the real DT, ffs keep it secret, even from me or anyone else you think is town. You never know about leaks or dingus players like Cephiro.

There might be 3rd party I admit, but I really don't know how to recognize the signs of one. I have 0 experience with 3rd parties. If you think that explains Palmar's play, then maybe it's a lead.

Lemme know about BC. It pains me because often if only one lynch can reach a general consensus, it's often a mislynch, while controversial lynches yield more info (Ver's guide), BC is the best lead we got atm.

Original Message From Cephiro:
I may not agree with your choice of target, and my powers aren't available for sale, so I am sorry, as is, I'll have to turn that offer down. Keep the worth of your opinion, and try to wake them up to reality before it's too late.

Original Message From Liquid`Sheth:
Also, just so you know I'm not blindly giving all my votes to Cephiro. I simply want to see responses.

Original Message From EchelonTee:
You really think there's a 3rd party? with 6 scum, that's already a potential 12town vs 6mafia, even if mafia is split. A 3rd party just makes it crazier for town.

Syllo is looking worse as time goes on. He sent me this weird PM with subject line "Hi are you town":

wth am I supposed to make of this? "listen to us or die. I'm definitely town trololol" -.- he has made almost no substantiated pushes or plans all game except for "i sheep palmar kthxbai" and "les kill sandroba cuz he lurk trolol". Syllogism is a strong, effective scumhunter as town. I don't see any of those traits.

However about this cycle, I feel good about the BC lynch. We need scum dying, and with Foolishness, Palmar, and Syllo all on him, I can't believe that all 3 of those are scum pushing a mislynch. Obviously that doesn't exonerate any of them in the slightest, but it's a decent step forward to regaining town momentum.

Original Message From Foolishness:
syllogism, gonzaw, anyone else in the thread who is saying so.

By certain you mean certain mafia right?

Syllogism is giving me 99% guarantees that Palmar is town (as you know they are really close friends). I thought Palmar was town half way through day 1, but now I'm not so sure. syllogism isn't helping.

round A is always going to be a crapshoot. You ain't helping the cause either by flipping a coin =P

Original Message From syllogism:
lol

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
Kk thanks for the heads up

Original Message From Cephiro:
Please do keep me up to date and clarify a bit more exactly what you're going to do, and send me the PMs you between you and Ace if they were of any value. (That is, if you still trust me). Whatever you're trying to do, good luck! I'm going to try and contact syllo.

Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
I just don't post much during the night, unless I have a reason to. What are your thoughts like right now? What do you think of BC?

You didn't reply to my last PM, so we kind of stopped communicating.

Original Message From BloodyC0bbler:
I understand how you can view me the same way as him and tbh I also to a degree expect that. However I feel I have overall been more consistent in my mannerisms.

As for prpl and cephiro I agree with you completely. I have read ceph's posts and talked to him via pms and he seems far less likely than most of being red. Sandroba was what would have been an easy lynch however since his "return" from his day that he was busy he has yet to do anything that has led me to believe he actually cares about the game aside from say "im confirmed town cause no one defended me / i was busy so its ok i wasn't here" Which is the same level of apathy that I expect from the scum level of sandro. He could still be insanely bitter from his treatment after SS but I don't think he would become like he is.

I am happy to see I am not the only one who doesn't trust the palmar/syllo team.

Original Message From Katina:
Not stalling at all.
I haven't read the thread yet but my opinion of Prplhz is that he is being inactive and that's not sitting well with me. Ace is dead, didn't think he was Mafia to begin with. Cephiro I'm not sure about, I have to go back and look at him. BC I think is Mafia, he has been throwing around accusations and picking on the easy targets until recently after he got called out on it. I have to go back and reread though.

PM's with Foolishness

Original Message From Ace:
no problemo!

Original Message From EchelonTee:
So you prefer PMs to motbob right? I'll respond to you here.

I think your case is pretty comprehensive and I agree with a lot of the 2nd half of it. Especially how prplhz hasn't been scumhunting and stuff. I don't know about the meta part of your argument (I bet people will go blah blah meta and ignore the 2nd part of your arguement), because the scum game you mentioned was a crazy themed game, and this game is also a themed game.

I think part of the equation that needs to be mentioned is what has prplhz been doing in PM land. In the last game I played with prplhz, Space Station Mafia, it was a PM game and prplhz literally posted nothing. I tried to use this to mislynch him (I was scum), but it turned out he was doing somethings in PM land. If prplhz has been pro-townie in PMs, that shouldn't be ignored. Do you know anyone who has been PMing with him?

However, of note is that in this game he has been actively lurking, not just plain ol lurking. As in he posted little tidbits here and there (as you noted) that make it seem like he is contributing, but not really doing much. And since he was around to post those tidbits, he could've posted more if he wanted to. I would be down with killing him.

The problem though is that he currently has 6 claimed votes: 1 from Palmar, 1 from VE, and 4 from chaoser. Unless chaoser didn't send in his votes, the chance of prplhz dying today is slim to none. If you can't get prplhz dead, would you be ok with VE dying? What do you think of chaoser piling votes on him with no reasoning?

Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
How else would you propose to vote this phase then? Everyone's quick to jump on my idea and bash it, but I haven't seen anyone suggest their own system yet. Realistically, I think this is going to end up with people voting whoever they want, which in my mind will cause just as much, if not more, chaos. By people just doing whatever they want, we get a random chance for who's in the majority or minority, as well their sizes. I don't like the idea of scum being able to make themselves safe, because I'm calling it now, anyone who gets into the minority is instantly going to have any suspicion on them dissipate, as they can't be lynched. This gives them a whole cycle before anyone can even think of lynching them, and I think it's going to make actually killing scum with the lynch a whole lot harder, since people will give up their cases, and pressure will instantly disappear.

Original Message From Foolishness:
Yes I agree. Though remember that all the vote information will be published at the end of the day. So we will know who voted where everytime. The first few days will be clusterfucks for sure. It's not until there are a few people alive where round A really matters.

Original Message From Liquid`Sheth:
yo meapak,

I claimed to syllogism.

He might be mafia tho

who ar u most worrieedd abot?

Original Message From EchelonTee:
Hey, can I still PM you here or are you using motbob?

I was wondering, why did you switch from thinking I'm townie to not minding killing me? That makes me mildly alarmed.

Original Message From VisceraEyes:
We still have to kill someone today. Crucification doesn't come into it.

Good luck in class.

Original Message From Foolishness:
Yeah I agree. Though Wiggles' plan seems legit. By that I mean seems like an honest town effort so far.

On May 02 2012 09:51 chaoser wrote:




to quote Ace:



How does that even work...



Isn't this just giving up?






????

On May 01 2012 03:55 chaoser wrote:


yes I do. and you by association

On May 01 2012 12:28 chaoser wrote:
Like I said, the only way for town to realistically control round 2 is via the cycle system. anything else from that is going to be really chaotic. And now that there's like 8 people in the minority group, it's going to be really hard to hold them accountable for their votes since we won't know who placed which vote where; they are not part of the cycle. There's going to be 40 extra votes into the cycle that can't be accounted for. It's definitely possible for mafia to save each other if it's going to be like this. This is why we need the minority group to be as little as possible...

I was hoping to push a katina lynch today but I'm willing to settle on a sandro lynch. Townie sandro makes plans. He loves plans, especially trying to make semi-game breaking ones. I figured out of all people, he would be most excited about how to most effectively use the two round mechanic to help town.

On to the cycle:



I'm going to give 4 of my votes to Prplhz. I hope the rest of you join the cycle as well.

On April 30 2012 13:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Well, I agree with gonzaw's statement that a strategy for Round A is also necessary. Scum are able to coordinate their votes, so they can always split themselves so that only half end up in the lynch pool ever if we let people just do whatever. So, we need some kind of strategy to make sure that we can get a decent amount of scummy people in the majority, that we can actually hold people to it, and that's feasible.

Obviously, an optimal strategy for lynch choice would be for every person to vote the same way. Then, everyone makes it into Phase B, and no one is safe from being able to be lynched. This makes Phase B more complicated, but I think it's worth it for the choice. What do people think? Results are revealed afterwards, so we should know if someone's lying and made it into the minority. Anyone who does, we can lynch. I don't see a reason townies need to worry about being immune to lynch this early in the game. Perhaps in the later stages, where it's feasible scum rig the votes to kill them, but not now. If someone tries that now, we'll know about the ninja bandwagon, because again, the results are revealed. We should try to force scum to play by our rules. They'll be a lot more careful, because there's two scum teams, so I don't see them trying anything too ballsy. Any disadvantage going into the late-game will translate into the other scum-team having more influence than them.

Also, because I can, and the name of the game, what do people think of LaL? :p

On May 01 2012 04:03 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

No, I'm trying to get something concrete out of Chaoser instead of just "I think Palmar needs to be lynched". That post was directed towards Chaoser.

Chaoser, explain why you want to lynch Palmar, and why you think he's scum. You're not going to convince anyone by just saying you want to lynch him.

On May 01 2012 06:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'm voting yes. WIFOM about it all you want.

Also, why did this thread go to Hell in the last two pages? Palmar posted his list of reads after extensive discussion about his plan, and suddenly a whole bunch of people come running out of the woodwork to oppose it, and not in a calm and logical way, but instead in a sort of raving and foaming at the mouth way.

On May 01 2012 09:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey Cephiro, if you yourself say you aren't doing anything productive, then how are you a useful townie? Also, why are you so quick to call gonzaw out as tunneling you when he's only been talking about you for two pages of the thread? That's hardly tunneling, it's pressure, and you're reacting very badly to it. Why don't you want to be talked about so badly? Do you have some secret reason for needing to avoid scrutiny?

On May 02 2012 02:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I think VE's a good lynch, but I'm not sure about Sandroba. If I had to pick a second person to lynch, it would be him, but I'd like to see some more out of him now that he's in the thread. A lot of the case against him so far seems to be "he doesn't care", but that doesn't really say much about his alignment in my opinion, just that he doesn't care. It' uncharacteristic of him, sure, but I've gotten that same line thrown at me in games as town where I was more inactive like Death Factory 2 and JubJub mafia. So, I'd like to see something more substantial from him now that he looks, or at least claims, that he'll be active again.

If we had to choose one person to kill, I think VE would be it. All it seems like he's doing is running through the thread aggravating people and opposing any sort of organization and causing dissent on principle. He hasn't even said who he thinks scum is now that he's chimed in on Round B. His case on WBG was laughable, and besides that, I don't see any reads from him. Even when he talks about the Sandroba lynch, he doesn't say that he thinks Sandroba is scum, just that he's fine with his lynch.

Also, just looking at what was posted recently, it looks like VE has given up. The lynch seemed like it would be between him and Sandroba, but instead of fighting it, he's just kicking dirt around. This is pretty uncharacteristic, and doesn't sit well with me.

@VE: So if you have super good reads and have been scumhunting, and that's why scum want to kill you, what are they? Also, I see no scumhunting in the thread, so it must have happened in PM land. Obviously if you're telling the truth then, scum have them, but town doesn't. Withholding them does nothing for town, and is in fact an anti-town behaviour. Also, I thought you said you weren't playing the game in PMs, so why are you scumhunting there supposedly, and not in the thread?

Or, you're just scum and I'm wasting my time. =/

On May 04 2012 01:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey, prplhz. You said that you've been playing badly, and seem like you want to step it up. From the thread, it doesn't really seem like you've been trying to do so. So, let's start to play. How are you deciding to vote? Who do you want to kill if they get in the majority? I'm interested in your answers, and reasons would be nice, too.

As for myself, I haven't decided exactly how I'll vote yet. I'd be willing to vote for a plan, but based on the results of Day 1 and the general attitude of people this game, I highly doubt it would pan out. So, if someone wants to organize something of some kind, feel free to shoot me a PM. Otherwise, I'm just going to vote however. Maybe I'll tell you I'm voting one way and vote the other just to see what would happen, if I'd be forgiven or not. :p
+ Show Spoiler [I've wanted an excuse to post th…] +

On May 04 2012 06:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
@Gonzaw:

My current read on Cephiro is that he's bad town. Most of the things he says I see as being wrong or scummy, but he's very stubborn and how he expresses himself makes me think he actually believes what he's saying. So, this lends me to thinking that he's just bad town, because of his conviction in what he's saying. I somewhat formed this read after I argued with him a little. That's why I asked if anyone was voting him on Day 1.

As for BC, I'm still waiting on him to come out with something, just like Sandroba and prplhz. Based on his complete lack of contribution before, I was leaning scum on him. He's come back now though, it seems, so I'm waiting to see what he does. I'll give a better read later on.

prplhz: If you want to talk about something, why don't you answer my questions?

On May 08 2012 02:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So what are people's thoughts on Sloosh? There seemed to be a general feeling that he was scum, but now I don't see his name being mentioned at all for the lynch. Did something happen in PM land that I missed?

Also, for how the KP works. I don't think that there's some third party who holds all the KP, and just think that's Cephiro trolling. Even if it's true, we'll just kill him. He'd have already shown he's anti-town with the kills, and I doubt he'd tell us who are the mafia that have contacted him, like he seemed to imply happened.

My own views are that there's either a medic who's saved a likely target twice, or a bullet-proof third party who attracted shots twice, though that seems unlikely. I see the medic being a more realistic scenario considering it's likely scum would shoot into Palmar/Syllo/WBG to disrupt the town. If there isn't a medic, then I'm not sure why scum didn't shoot there, and it probably implies that one or more of them are scum.

On May 09 2012 08:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:

I'm not sure what I think right now, and need to re-evaluate. If I'm still alive after the day post, I plan on going back and re-reading both yours and Chaoser's filters, among others. I think Sandroba is mafia, and most likely Cephiro is too. They both need to be killed next time they show up in the majority, unless something major happens that shows we need to act otherwise.

I had few other ideas, but after thinking about them, they don't make as much sense to me anymore. There's some weird things going on, but it probably seems that way because I'm lacking a lot of information. I'll be able to make slightly better sense of it after the Day post, but I think it lies mostly in the fact that Palmar/Syllo/WBG are holding information back.

Original Message From wherebugsgo:
welcome to my feelings this entire game.

I keep getting more scummy people than there are scum in the game, which eventually just pisses me off and makes me not want to play

Original Message From wherebugsgo:
Thanks for this, it's very useful. I have an idea, but I'm going to wait on it. In fact I'm going to tell gonzaw and syllo, so that if I die tonight they will know what I think.

based on this vote pattern, though, I think Palmar is scum. I will explain it to syllo and gonzaw and if I die tonight they will make the results public. If I don't die I'll do it myself.

The reason I'm not telling you now is because I want to play it safe. I want to see if the trend I see continues. Based on what I'm seeing I'm sure it will because it is nearly impossible for that type of trend to be purely accidental.