|
So upon reviewing the thread I have concluded that Mr. Wiggles' plan for "put everyone in the majority" is either gross negligence or a malicious scum plan.
Why? If everyone is in the majority (assuming everyone followed the plan, which they wouldn't), that means there are 18 people up for lynch. Normally this would be no problem at all, as everyone is always up for lynch, but due to the rules of this game anyone with 0 votes, or tied for lowest is lynched. If this plan were to be followed, I can all but guarantee that we will have 3+ townies dying simply because no one thought they were important enough to be voted, while scum players can obviously get votes on them. This plan allows for suboptimal townies to be culled at no cost to the scum teams. Mr. Wiggles arguement is that if you're bad then it's fine if you die. I heavily heavily disagree with this.
Honestly, I just want to randomly put my vote down and focus on scum hunting because whether I'm in the majority or minority, I don't plan on being mislynched. However, since it's starting to seem like scum may try to abuse the system, I'll follow any plan that has decent logic behind it.
Meapak, do you not care about any of the plans that have been put forth so far?
|
RE: Gonzaw
On April 30 2012 13:23 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 13:11 Cephiro wrote:On April 30 2012 13:00 gonzaw wrote: One thing I was thinking is, for instance to scumhunt normally this round, and have EVERYBODY claim what their answer will be in the thread (YES or NO) We force the "scummy" players to vote for the mayority, and the most townie ones vote for the minority to save them from Round B. And how would that be useful? As nice as it would to believe people will vote for something co-operatively in a game of this size, it just won't happen. If you somehow manage to gather and confirm all townies, and ensure they vote in a certain pattern, that still enables scum to do whatever they want, and even if they outed themselves, they may still be able to get in the minority constantly. It's just not gonna work in a game where votes are hidden until the results. (Where it will be obvious who voted for what) If everybody follows the plan, then those that vote different than they told are scum. After that, you can either get a vig to shoot them (if there is any), maybe luckily have the other scum team shoot them, or change the voting system on later days to ensure that player becomes mayority. The point is that either you have a claimed scum, or the plan goes through
Gonzaw, the problem with what you have been advocating (everyone announce votes, we force scummy people to be in majority) is that non-cooperative overconfident players (read: Palmar, Ace), will want to be in the minority, and that doesn't imply that they are scum or town. Simply that they would not want to follow the plan doesn't mean they should be autovig'd. While I do agree that people who announce a vote, but end up voting otherwise should be scrutinized to hell, this sort of hardline plan will not work.
@Foolishness: Do you have any ideas that would actually allow town to control how many people end up in the majority/minority (I'm abbreviating that as M/M from now on). PM me if you don't want to put it in thread.
@Sandroba: Last time you were town in a PM game you broke the hell out of it; if I don't see similar efforts then it's tunnel city.
|
5PM EST deadline and I'm still in school @.@ .... never thought I'd want a longer day phase.
Skimming, I don't like any of the plans really. Palmar's plan reminds me of the SS gamebreak plan, but though this game has a non-standard setup, I don't see the advantage of mass roleclaim/putting all power into the center as compared to that game. To people saying "either you think Palmar is town and you go with plan, or you think he's scum"; that sort of dichotomy doesn't make any sense at this stage in the game. Palmar has the cajones to do this whether scum or town, so I don't want to follow his plan not because I absolutely think he's scum, but simply because I do not trust him enough.
I'll have more time later to discuss how Phase B/future Phase A's should go. For now, since voting information is hidden, it's likely that at least some scummy people will end up in the Majority, and we can go from there.
|
Apologies for being AWOL; finals are coming up. Please PM me, I'm lonely as hell in PM land.
RE: Why I want to lynch VisceraEyes
The primary reason why I think VisceraEyes is scummy is because he claims to be "scumhunting" but he provides no evidence or reasoning behind his accusations, while simultaneously being completely apathetic to plan discussion.
On April 30 2012 13:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Not I. :d
Well then, let's get started.
As always, I cynically feel like any plan we hope to enact is doomed to fail so let's just vote how we want to vote for round A. We have a number advantage over scum, so voting randomly (according to how we feel) will put town at the advantage imo.
I haven't decided how to use my votes for Phase B yet. I'm still pondering the matter. VE opens by dismissing any potential plans. If VE had simply disagreed with the plans that had already been put forth, that would be reasonable, but he just ignores them and says that voting randomly would "put town at advantage". How? VE never really gets into this; while it is true that plans could be abused by scum, planning allows town to counteract such abuse by controlling the voting system in a pro-town manner.
VE's apathy contrasts with the last town game he played, where he actively discussed the mechanics of the game to try and decrease the chance for scum abuse, which contradicts him saying "I think any plan is doomed to fail".
On May 01 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Dis voting system.
It doesn't matter who's in the minority. Yeah, it's true a lot of people can die. We can sort that out during the down-sizing phase when we decide who we want to live. LOLOLOLOLOL
Anyone pushing an agenda that involves trying to control the minority phase looks super duper scummy to me right now ^^ Bolded part - extreme apathy to people dying. This is in stark contrast to a particular character trait of VE; he doesn't think townies should just be culled without a care. This stems from his history of being a bad newbie; he usually puts a lot more care in ensuring that only people he really thinks are scum get lynched. This mindset put forth by VE is apathetic to the idea that many people could die, which is utterly strange.
His case on WBG was half-assed, no need to get further into that as others have already said why it's bad.
Says he wants to be king, but doesn't really do anything along with his bold assertion. His plan is "people vote randomly and we will sort it out later". That is the least decisive king I have ever heard off; while it looks like VE is being his usual aggressive self, he's being very wishywashy with plans, which is uncharacteristic.
Finally, and nail in the coffin for myself:
On May 01 2012 08:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I am actively committed to finding and eliminating scum.
Anything beyond that is malleable. Says he is actively committed to scumhunting
On May 01 2012 08:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Anyway, right now I'd lynch into wherebugsgo, chaoser, syllogism.
That's my story. I'll provide reasoning if any of these players are in the majority in Phase B. Wants to lynch these people. says will provide reasoning if any are in the majority.
As it turns out, chaoser is in the majority. Will VE provide reasoning, push him, or do anything pro-town?
On May 02 2012 01:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Also for those watching at home, my votes are now also a mystery. Since I'm apparently scum I'm going to act like scum and not share who I'm voting for with town. WAAH WAAH WAAAAAAAAAH!
I am disappoint town. I thought we were going places together. I thought we were going to kill all the scums...together. Guess not. VE claims to be attacked for his scumhunting efforts, but it's clear that he hasn't been doing any such scumhunting. I'm not usually very confident of D1 reads but this is one of the best ones I've felt in a while, especially considering I've seen VE play a decent amount of games by now. VE is being uncooperative and noncontributing in a very disingenuous way. While VE has rage quit before as town, the manner in which he is doing so, without even putting up information on his lynch of choice and putting down other people at will, seems like a scum VE rage quitting.
If anyone wants to put votes on VE, they better justify themselves/respond to this.
Will provide reasoning to my votes in the next few hours.
|
Me replying to stuff that's been going on thread the past 10 pages:
RE: The gonzaw/Cephiro back and forth
On May 01 2012 08:10 gonzaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Cephiro:Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this: I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass. You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you.
The two bolded parts are the significant parts of gonzaw case, and ones that I find to be pretty true; Cephiro was initially active but since has done no scumhunting. This is especially ironic considering his response:
On May 01 2012 08:19 Cephiro wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I honestly think all the plan discussion in D1 has been stupid. I do not see people agreeing in as quickly as 24-48 hours, and it serves as a great cloak for scum, as it derails the conversation to people jabbing at each other about an optimal way of trying to game the game with voting strategies, instead of hunting the scum.
Lets say someone finally came up with a plan that everyone magically agreed on. Now, what will you do with it if you've found no scum?
Just because I did not publicly share my reads with syllo does mean I haven't done it with anyone else. PM Land is a wonderful place to be in. If I don't trust syllo, why should I give him my reads? And making up false reads in the threads is just something that someone would point out as an contradiction by PMs later, and then bad townies would be jumping all over the fact and be distracted from the actual work that needs to be done.
As I've said a trillion times before, do not try to metagame me. If you try, you've already lost.
Cephiro states that he doesn't like the fact that plan discussion has stifiled scumhunting discussion, and decries the fact that scumhunting hasn't been happening. 24 hours later, not a single scumread from Cephiro. 5 hours til deadline, also hasn't even posted who he's voting for. Also, the consistent bickering about meta is both inaccurate and misguiding; Cephiro consistently asserts in his responses that "don't meta me grrr focus on thread stuff", but not only is meta a strong tool, even if we merely focus on the thread, the fact that he based on plans and harped on the necessity of scumhunting, but did nothing of the sort, making his responses really really scummy.
This + Show Spoiler +On May 01 2012 10:07 gonzaw wrote: About Cephiro:
Omg this is the Toad incident all over again. Okay, I won't argue more with you and this is the only thing I'll say: Cephiro is not posting any reads, contributing at all, and is only trying to argue the hell out of me right now and clog up the thread instead of addressing the issues I mentioned
So town, read this, read Cephiro's posts, and tell me what you think; I won't clog the thread up any more with this stupid back and forth Cephiro is making is a good summation of how I feel about Cephiro atm. However, since he has a bunch of claimed votes on him already, he's not dying today. Unless Cephiro turns on the pro-towniness that won him respect from Ace, of all people, I'm good with a future Cephiro lynch.
RE: Ace
I don't get Ace. Sometimes he makes the most sense of all, other times I'm like o.O Some posts from him:
On May 01 2012 09:55 Ace wrote: I really hope I don't end up in the majority with gonzaw. Going to be a difficult task to figure out which one of us needs to die. On May 02 2012 03:07 Ace wrote: I'm giving my votes to myself. No one else here deserves them. On May 01 2012 18:13 Ace wrote: Too bad I never said anything about looking for Confirmed Town.
Guess we know who's dying soon.
First: are you saying that you and gonzaw are both really scummy, so if you guys were in the majority it would be tough to figure out who has to die? What did you mean by this?
Second: wat? you completely dgaf about who gets lynched and who lives?
Third: who are you referring to about who's dying? Palmar?
Perhaps I'm unaccustomed to Ace's play, but is this normal for him? I don't expect him to answer my questions, but it would help.
RE: Sheth
On May 02 2012 01:45 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be some sort of reentry into the game for some, so assuming Sand is scum and you guys kill us both, if it's a town-related power, you should bring me back.
I have reads, but I'm holding them hostage until after I flip. Bring me back, and we'll kill all the scums.
They're gooooooooood too. I can't tell if you just aren't caring if you die or if you're just confident you'll get enough votes to live. This isn't the VE that is quiet conserved and waiting to hear others out before judging. As nice as it was for you to say I'd get a vote I'm quite worried about you personally. I'm happy with having the situation be give 4 votes to someone and 1 to someone else. I think its a cool idea especially because we'll see the people who just won't follow it at all. And we'll see those who are just following lemming like. Anyway as of now I'm going to give my 4 to Cephiro and 1 to Meapak because I don't know if others will vote for him and I have liked him so far. Cephiro gets my 4 based on my meta reads of him. I'm not completely sure hes town, but he seems it to me from posts here and in PM land. I geuss its obvious no1 is completely sure of anything yet ^^ This post made me do a double take. You're used to VE being "quiet" and "conserved"? That's not his meta at all, VE is a big asshole as town; your reasoning for initially supporting VE and then not supporting him later doesn't make sense.
Your reasonings for giving Cephiro 4 votes is unclear. You say "meta reads" but don't explain how this makes him town. Gonzaw used meta as a reason why Cephiro is scummy, do you disagree with this?
Your continued assertions that "no1 is sure of anything" both in thread and in PMs seems to indicate a lot of indecisivness. I am pretty suspicious of you atm and am looking for a step up in game, as you look very scummy.
RE: The prplhz case
On May 02 2012 03:54 Motbob is great wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ladies (don’t think there are any) and Gentleman (not many of those either ). I proudly present you with a tragedy entitled: The tale of two prplhz’s. It was the best of Prplhz, it was the worst of Prplhz… nah screw that I’ll just get right to the good stuff. To start with, I want have a little exercise. I’m going to post three quotes, 1 from prplhz as town, 1 from prplhz as scum, and one from prplhz this game. You’re going to read these match them to the correct game… no cheating! + Show Spoiler +On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote:Okay I don't think that XXX is scum because he's been pretty out there. The scummiest he has done in my opinion is his claim which was oddly timed. Right now he's a terribly easy lynch, because we'll have to lynch him at some point. I'd like to see ZZZ explain how everything XXX has done can be explained by scum motivation and can not be explained by town motivation. The worst thing about this whole XXX thing is that the lynch is so easy that everybody can just pile onto him and then the day is kinda ruined, we aren't going to find anybody else. I don't think that XXX is scum because he's just been putting himself too much in the line of fire. YYY isn't taking AAA accusations seriously (for some reason, nobody is even though AAA is pretty good at mafia). There are more in the accusations than just "YYY doesn't have a read 5 hours in", he is saying that your mindset doesn't seem focused on finding scum. I totally agree with this. He specifically quotes this: Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 12:03 YYY wrote: [...] I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better. You see that the discussion is bad, you say that people should try to find whoever is responsible for this, but you never do this. You are the one guilty of strawman arguing when you insinuate that AAA accusation was just based around how you didn't have any reads 5 hours into the game. Additionally there's plenty of bad stuff in your filter. –REDACTED- This post where you complain about what's being discussed without providing anything of an alternative. You were just as guilty in letting the initial discussion get out of hand as those people whose existence you alluded to but never tried to find. I understand that you might not like how XXX was being a douche towards BBB but your comments on that doesn't count as a contribution. You didn't post a single read this entire game, and I don't care if anything is 5 hours into the game or whatever, reads are what push this game foward, AMIRITE? So, YYY, is XXX scum or is he just best lynch because of the situation he's gotten himself in? Do you have other scum reads? I'll vote XXX to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that. But like, XXX probably isn't scum, come on. There's also plenty good in having him around since scum can't role block anybody else no matter XXX alignment. The lynch today comes down to "We very likely have to lynch XXX at some point, should it be today or do we have something better?". Right now, I think it's too early to say. On October 14 2011 22:20 prplhz wrote: you know while the mayor needs to be someone town, the pardoner is going to be held very accountable. we should lynch the pardoner the second he doesn't do exactly what we tell him to so i think pardoner needs to be expendable.
also i think we need to narrow down the field of candidates so people should keep pushing for their candidacy or they should drop out.
to all of the candidates that aren't XXX, (YYY,ZZZ,AAA,BBB,CCC,DDD,sorryifi'mforgettinganybody) who would you like to see as pardoner if you win the election? On May 01 2012 05:13 prplhz wrote: If there's no plan then it's probably going to be 2-4 scum in the majority. If there is a vigilante of sort or other similar role then we can use that to kill of bad guys in the minority.
Since it looks like people don't like round A plans then how about round B plans? I think it was XXX who said "X votes X+1" and then the minority votes for the townier people. Bad thing is that we don't get majority to vote on anything so no information, and if we just flip coins for round A then people never get to put their money where their mouth is. I'm still for the YYYZZZAAA-plan (wazzup) where those three just decide whatever and put 6-7 townies in the minority. If we're dissatisfied with their picks then we can just replace some of them tomorrow. Just because we ditched the claim idea doesn't mean we have to ditch everything that any of those said. I redacted all the names so that you’d focus on the content. What does prplhz do as town? He’s aggressive, he scum hunts and calls people out. What does prplhz do as scum? He sits back and discusses the setup? What’s prplhz done this game? Well that’s the topic of the little post. Now of course you all are screaming OBJECTION! Meapak wtf are you thinking, meta is good to establish a suspicion but you can’t hang someone for it. I absolutely agree, which is why we’re going to have a closer look at prplhz’s other posts this game. First let’s take a look at the General Guide to Mafia and see what it has to say about scumplay A. Survival
1. Hiding/Blending in 2. Posting long but contentless posts 3. Lurking 4. Indecision 5. Not wanting to point fingers 6. Avoiding responsibility 7. Apathy about who is lynched*
So let’s take this one at a time. Here are some hiding/blending in posts: + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2012 20:22 prplhz wrote: Also: How I plan to be active in PMs this game.
If I end up in majority I plan on pleading my innocence to a bunch of people in PMs. Other than that I'm probably going to play the most of this game in the thread. On May 01 2012 04:59 prplhz wrote: I was just reading up on this game and then I thought to myself "Man, I wish I was observing this game." and then I was like "Hey, I am observing this game!" ... dunno I caught and bug and I'm a little ill these days.
I'm not entirely sure what to think of anything yet, I like the 72 hour day proposal 'cause this is going fast.
@wherebugsgo What do you mean "the groups with the power to influence who get into the minority are scum, not town." ? On May 01 2012 08:08 prplhz wrote: I don't know who is lamer, the DotA2 king of the WoW king ... Now here is a long but contentless post: + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2012 20:02 prplhz wrote: I hope this doesn't end in Ace being shot again.
We don't know how many (or even if) we have a vigilante, scum who want to avoid lynch will have like a ~40% chance each day of avoiding the lynch, and they don't even need their scumbuddies' help for this! If we go through with the pardon plan for days then they will even get 100% chance of avoiding lynch and we will need vigilantes to take care of them so potential vigilantes should not use their shot to enforce plans.
I imagine that there are roles more related to the central game mechanic, maybe M/M inverters or people who can throw other people from one pool to the other, maybe some hidden votes for round B.
I thought about how the vote trading panned out in Hammer Mini Mafia (for those who haven't read, everybody had 5 votes and we had to give some away to other people every night). In that game people might not give votes to the most townie player just because "he would already get a bunch" and then he would end up with none. Also, I think charismatic people might get relatively many votes compared to how "townie" they really appear but we still don't want people like me to die just because no one thought to trade me (goes for other people too).
I'm unsure about what to think about big round B plans, I'm always worried about what powers scum may have and I think that just relying on people to do their best should suffice (at least in this game with this infinitely stacked player list). What I'm going to do is that I'm going to split my votes up and throw a bunch of them into people I think other people are likely to vote for, and throw some of them into people I think other people are more unlikely to vote for. If everybody else does this then we're not going to have any problems (and we're going to have a lot of information this way) but if only I do it then there's not really much harm in that anyway.
I think it was gonzaw/syllogism who proposed that round B should be an unofficial vote and then we try to kill the "winner" of that vote, but I don't know about that. This is a game about finding townies and if we all agree that someone is scum then we're not going to need a huge plan for getting him lynched, people are just not going to vote for him or they're going to get into trouble. I have never seen an unofficial voting system in action either, at least not one that worked.
It seems that there is already a big plan in place for round A and it's kinda alright with me, syllogism and Palmar have good reads on each other so I'm going to go along with whatever they feel like for now. For lurking I’ll point out that prplhz has 14 since the game started. For 4, 5, and 6 I’ll post a couple that have all three of these: + Show Spoiler +On May 01 2012 07:56 prplhz wrote: I'm very unsure about what's going on and why we're not going with the Palmogisfield-plan. Most of this has just been people not wanting to cooperate and I'm very unsure why. I'm pretty sure we could find a couple people that most everybody wouldn't vote for day1 and it only makes sense to throw them into the minority for more information (and hopefully better odds) in round B.
Ace is doing his usual and very useless "you can't have any reads on day1" thing. Then he's like "I'm just going to be an asshole no matter what you do" which is equally useless. All Ace can do day1 is yell at other people for having bad reads.
I kinda like Mr. Wiggles but I don't exactly know why. I also like Foolishness and Palmogisfield. I don't have any scum reads.
I feel like you're all speaking in russian. I'm looking forward to round B because then I'll have five votes like the rest of you that I can use however I want.
Dunno. On May 01 2012 08:07 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:05 Cephiro wrote:On May 01 2012 08:01 prplhz wrote: Ace likes the hypothetical "what if everybody is an asshole?", well then this game is lost already now isn't it? Please don't tell me you're saying you don't know how to make reads on assholes? :p I don't but that was not what I meant. If everybody just do something semi-random all game long then we're not going to win because we can't organize anything while scum will be able to perfectly organize themselves. If people stopped doing semi-random stuff and for the most did what appeared to be the most townie thing then we'd be running with the Palmogisfield plan right now. Meh, it's useless since round B is coming up soon. It’s somewhat difficult to prove the last one since prplhz has decided not to grace us with his presence for the lynch discussion. For a tl;dr, I will say this. Prplhz has been apathetic to the extreme. He’s avoided making any real statements and when he has, he’s qualified them with his own indecision. He’s playing a game that’s a far cry from what I’ve seen town prplhz do. He has exhibited basically a textbook example of what scum look like, and since I know what he’s capable of, he’s not getting off the hook with the noob excuse anymore. Anyone who puts votes on prplhz is gonna face my wrath. For those who are curious, here's town prplhz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=126438And here's scum prplhz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269956&user=126438 While I don't necessarily agree with M_Z's meta arguement against prplhz (the games where prpl talked about setup more were both themed games), the various points indicating prplhz Mafia traits are comprehensive and well thought out, including his lack of scumhunting and lurky indecision. I honestly don't see why a bunch of people think prplhz is very townie.
However, prplhz indication that he has been busy and is now catching up seems pretty genuine to me, from posts like this:On May 02 2012 05:09 prplhz wrote: honestly, i don't expect to live through the day. hopefully i'll have the energy to put more effort into this game tomorrow 'cause it's quite disappointing what i've done so far. it sounds like he might have been a busy townie, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, for now.
This reflects most of my thoughts of how the game has been going on, as has been discussed with people in PMs.
|
People I'm voting for
I'm putting 2 votes on Meapak_Ziphh and 2 votes on Mr. Wiggles.
For M_Z, his reaction to Palmar's plan sounded genuinely concerned with town's wellbeing, his response to VE's case on WBG, and his efforts towards scumhunting make me think he is town.
For Mr. Wiggles, his response to my jab about his plan and his responses to the Cephiro/gonzaw back and forth make me think he is town.
I've also been active in PMs with both and they have been very transparent; I am giving them 2 votes a pop to ensure their survival. I'm keeping my last vote in the pocket just incase some shenanigans arise.
|
On May 02 2012 07:09 VisceraEyes wrote: My reads are all very weak because I'm basing them on what I perceive to be what is the best for town, which in this game I'm not sure I even know what the best course of action for town is going to be.
That being said, my scumreads are:
Ace, wherebugsgo, Meapak | | chaoser, Katina, EchelonTee
Don't expect reasoning. It's true, all of my votes are on Sandroba. I feel like he's town and scum are pushing easy mislynches.
I apologize to everyone for my apparent lack of concern for this game, but I've earnestly been playing and trying to find scum regardless of what you may perceive in the thread. But several peoples' attitudes this game (Ace and bugs come to mind) have made this game completely not fun for me to play any longer.
Posting a list of scumreads without reasoning? That seems familiar. In the words of Mementoss,
Die scum
|
On May 02 2012 02:57 Katina wrote: Those who are though that I am suspicious of are:
EcholenTee: He has been missing for a majority of the game. Last game I was in with him, he was vocal and not MIA for this long.
I already mentioned I was busy with school, and have since stepped up my activity. In the last game we played (TL Mafia LI), I was only vocal early because I got attacked by Risen. Otherwise, my style of posting larger posts in more varied intervals has not changed. If you're going to continue accusing me of being scum, make a complete case please, lest you be accused of being hypocritical (since people always accuse you with no reasoning lololol)
|
On May 02 2012 06:01 syllogism wrote: Yes, in a game where cooperation is essential we are stuck with some players who are completely incapable of doing that. I'm sure they aren't all mafia and even if they are, I think they would be playing in a quite similar fashion anyway. Where exactly is our cooperation failing us? Even though things got contentious with the plans and what not, I feel like the game is progressing fairly cordially. Contenting ourselves with one lynch atm is fine by me.
RE: Sandroba He hasn't been been his plan-happy self from Space Station Mafia even a little bit, and from what people have been saying about him through PMs, he hasn't been disinterested and apathetic. The only other game I have played with him, TL Mafia L, he was pretty lurky as scum, so this lines up. I was waiting for him to respond to how accusations/post reads of his own (as WBG said he would be doing), but it's been a while now.
I would be fine with him as a secondary lynch, but with VE dumping votes on him I don't see how he will die today. If his busy-ness due to Brazillian parties or whatever is genuine, he now has a chance to step up his play.
I'll be back before deadline to confirm my final votes and what not.
|
On May 02 2012 08:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Both of you shut up now ^
|
I'm back. I'm putting my last vote on chaoser since somehow he has 2nd lowest, and I don't want him randomly dying.
|
Wait what? Radfield is about to die? That's no good.
|
Deadline passed right? I want to know if I'm f5'ing in vain or not.
|
On May 02 2012 12:41 Radfield wrote: Shit guys. I just got home and didn't vote. This simply isn't going to work for me. ??? Send in your votes now, maybe Ver/Incog will be ok with it.
|
bleh. I feel like a tunneling asshole.
Stuff like this:
On May 02 2012 13:04 wherebugsgo wrote: thanks to VE for playing like a complete ass.
Thanks for saving sandro, you fuck. is completely unnecessary. Just being an ass.
Should spent part of the nighttime looking at people in the minority, since they were, for the most part, completely ignored in Phase B.
|
Wait a minute. Prplhz has 2 votes in the recorded category, and 3 in the "illegal" category. 2 of those, gonzaw and Palmar, are indeed off limits, but there's an additional 1 vote on Sandroba that was considered illegal. What gives?
Also strange is how prplhz would've died had it not been for Radfield coming in.
|
Hey you got your account back M_Z :o
I think the opposite TBH; the fact that 8 unique voters were on Wiggles means jack. There were also 8 unique voters on you, 7 on me, and 6 on chaoser. Are we all suspicious for that? On the other hand, the fact that Sandroba was left in the dust suggests that scum teams saw him as an easy mislynch to leave behind.
|
On May 02 2012 13:12 Foolishness wrote: More than one person has some explaining to do. On May 02 2012 14:08 Foolishness wrote:Wrong, right. I'm pretty sure 2 mafia revealed themselves in the votes though. I hope you plan on explaining these before the deadline. You are Foolishness, after all.
PM me if you want to talk, I'm keeping relatively quiet in thread for the night.
|
I'm back. Like no one PM'd me
On May 03 2012 04:17 Ace wrote: *yawn*
People are still alive in this game? What's taking so long to kill everyone? All that this guy has done is troll all game, sneak into the minority list, and troll some more. Does anyone actually think Ace is helping town?
On May 03 2012 04:24 syllogism wrote: Sheth finally provided an acceptable answer to my inquiries so he looks slightly better for now Are you saying he answered the gonzaw "meta" accusation, the Cephiro votes, and the VE reasoning, all satisfactorily?
On May 03 2012 05:41 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I recall analyzing you and never getting a response back. Seems I did this to prpl as well and again it went ignored. The fact you have missed both those while going over my filter is very impressive. I also love that you are currently hopping on the train of attack BC along with the others. Seems like you like easy targets as well? By continuing the actual push on me as opposed to bringing anything new to the table and avoiding any heat thrown on you by being inactive as hell it seems like you are the textbook example of mafia play. HORRY SHIZ.
I looked at your filter and didn't see analysis of Katina or prplhz prior to this post. Is this just an out lie, or did you PM people your analysis without posting it in thread? You recently posted a case on prplhz, but have never posted a case on Katina except for "you're bad". You claim to be clear in your reads, but you really are not doing so.
On May 03 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote: also, i wanted to call ace "kiddo" and i think it was funny because i PM'd foolishness the same question and because i didn't read half the thread yet. i'm at page 15 with and then i read again from nightpost and then i read a few filters.
Catch up quick; I gave you the benefit of the doubt but TBH you still haven't done much.
Will be posting some thoughts on people right before deadline. Everyone should look into the minority list and work out, of the people who hid from scrutiny yesterday, who is scum.
|
On May 03 2012 09:34 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:17 Ace wrote: *yawn*
People are still alive in this game? What's taking so long to kill everyone? You know, it's hard to shoot someone during the daytime if it's not allowed. ;/ What do you mean by this?
On May 03 2012 09:34 Cephiro wrote: More seriously, once we move on to D2, we should stop the bitchslapping each other with our gigantic penises, and nominating kings. K? Any plans for tomorrow instead, then? I don't want Phase A to proceed in the same way. PM me if you want.
|
On May 03 2012 09:45 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:24 syllogism wrote: Sheth finally provided an acceptable answer to my inquiries so he looks slightly better for now Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 09:40 EchelonTee wrote: Are you saying he answered the gonzaw "meta" accusation, the Cephiro votes, and the VE reasoning, all satisfactorily? Why should he need to explain votes on me anymore than anyone random on anyone else? It's not like I'm scummy or anything. Honestly, everyone should've explained their votes at least tertiarily. Imagine a standard Mafia game; does everyone just vote people saying "I think that guy is scum. kthxbai"? NO they explain why they are voting as such, or are scrutinized for not explaining. Though listing out town reads rampantly is obviously not a good idea, not posting reasoning for voting this or that person removes accountability from the voting process.
For Sheth, it was those 3 things together that made me suspicious of him, and if Syllogism considers those three topics to be answered, then maybe I should devote my attention elsewhere. That's why I am asking for that explanation in particular.
|
On May 03 2012 10:13 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 09:53 EchelonTee wrote:On May 03 2012 09:45 Cephiro wrote:On May 03 2012 04:24 syllogism wrote: Sheth finally provided an acceptable answer to my inquiries so he looks slightly better for now On May 03 2012 09:40 EchelonTee wrote: Are you saying he answered the gonzaw "meta" accusation, the Cephiro votes, and the VE reasoning, all satisfactorily? Why should he need to explain votes on me anymore than anyone random on anyone else? It's not like I'm scummy or anything. Honestly, everyone should've explained their votes at least tertiarily. Imagine a standard Mafia game HORSESHIT TO FOLLOW I stopped reading there. This isn't a standard mafia game. You lose sir. Ok, no one should explain anything. We should post random tidbits like "yall suck" and "yawn I'm bored". We should also stick ourselves in the minority when we've done nothing to show that we are townie. Through the art of trolling, scum will be found. Definitely.
Is this your scum meta? Annoy people into anger?
|
Catching up on PMs and thread atm prplhz, I'll get to you.
I'm fn baffled Ace was town. Honestly scum did us a favor by removing his trolling apathy from the game.
|
On May 03 2012 12:23 gonzaw wrote:I don't get why a scumteam would even try to kill Ace. Maybe they thought he was from the other scum team or something. Okay people, since people's been ignoring my plan since I posted, here it goes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=15#297Here's my first vote: ##Vote: CephiroI will vote for other people as the day goes on I suggest you guys do the same so we can organize Round A voting better, just like in D1, but without Palmar alone deciding who's in the minority or not. We can't organize a plan like this; people who are under suspicions are just going to put them selves in the minority if we as a group decide that XYZ should be in minority. Our only reasonable option is RNG; probability dictates that some scum will end up in there, and we can work from there.
On May 04 2012 01:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 19:41 syllogism wrote: Even if you RNG, you need to PM me what you send in. Players who are willing to cooperate should not rng yet. Absolutely nobody do this. This is such a bad plan that it hurts. The point of RNG is randomness; if people PM you the votes, and there is at all anyleak, then scum have all the info to do as they please. Why would you even suggest this???
On May 04 2012 02:19 syllogism wrote:Very cute Meapak, let me guess, you are "trapping here". I know you are smarter than to actually believe I'm mafia, so that leaves just one alternative Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: My team was actually all online so we were able to arrange it ^^
Let's cut to the chase here, I think we can help each other.
We'll be willing to exchange answers if you guys are.
How has nobody brought more attention to this?? MZ and syllo are directly accusing each other of being scum, with MZ doing some trap crap or something, no one has any thoughts on this?
|
On May 04 2012 05:22 prplhz wrote:hey i have some pms with radfield and now that he's gone i thought i'd just post them 'cause even sloosh seems confused i also asked radfield why he voted for me but he didn't answer (before he /out'ed) so i'm not gonna post those + Show Spoiler [pms with RADFIELD] +Original Message From Radfield: I don't know what you signed up for either, so lets figure it out I'm just thinking that given the unwillingness of town right to work together right now, I see no reason for them to be willing to co-operate in round 2. So we need to gather up townies who are willing to work together, and use our votes in an intelligent fashion. If everyone is just helter skelter voting in round 2, mafia have already won. Show nested quote +Original Message From prplhz: dunno what i apparently just signed up to but if it makes sense then i'm probably going to like it! Original Message From Radfield: Fuck ya! Lets be friends and have our own circle of co-operation We can add in other people who are like minded, and use our voting block to get things done in a pro-town fashion. Original Message From prplhz: yea! subject was "you know i am" and it was in response to his post where he asked people to pm him if they wanted to cooperate. also i + Show Spoiler [stumbled upon this] +On May 01 2012 09:24 chaoser wrote: here, let me ask a question to you radfield. What's the difference between people in the minority and the majority? Minority can't die right? Why would you take away a threat to a player like that? It makes no sense.
If you have a system in place to make it so that round 2 proceeds in an orderly manner then everything works out perfectly. I sent this to WBG already but I'll post it here as well.
for round two, it's based on whoever has the lowest points will be lynched right? so I was thinking of basing it on a gradient system. Most scummy, no points. We then have the rest pass points in a system following the player order.
so lets say it's like 5 people in the majority and 1 person in the minority. that's 25 points. lets say we think a is mafia. so the players are a, b, c, d, e, f
we think f is townie so he's in minority cause we need one. we move onto round 2.
b gives all his points to c, c gives all his points to d, d gives to e, e gives to b. If we all circle then a will have zero points. even if mafia was trying to save a, the two teams members would have to give 6 points total to save him. Because of the circle system, there's no way a can make back the deficient with his 5 points for both his teammates; one of his teammates will be adjacent to someone without 5 votes. That person is also mafia then.
f will be giving his votes, spread as evenly as possible, into the crowd of b, c, d, e. If things look wrong then f is suspicious.
WBG suggested to me that we do it so that everyone only cycles 4 votes and they give their one vote to whomever they want so that accountability would be an element and I agree. There's no way a would be able to get out of this situation unless his teammates out themselves. and thought i'd comment even though it's old if there's only 1 guy in minority then at least 2 of any scum team is in majority. say A is mafia but so is his mate, C. so A trades 4 votes to D so that they're not missing, C trades his 4 votes that was meant for D to A and now everybody has 4 votes, which is clearly not desirable. now people are going to die unless they get more votes and with a 1 person minority that's somewhat unlikely to happen. if chaoser had only suggested the 5 votes vote circle then we would have been even more screwed, everybody would die except the people F decided to trade and F himself. in short, this strategy is broken/crazy isn't it? or did i miss something i'm bad with plans. it seems like it only appears to be working because he chose a rather small example, with 17 player majority and 1 player minority this strategy would be crazy. with 10/8 i'm a little unsure why it would be desirable to take so much accountability and power away from majority and give it to minority, when you are the same time don't want to try to implement a plan that would make it more likely that the minority was mostly town aligned. seems like a 10/8 split would kind of ruin the idea of circle trading since everybody would die if A has a scum buddy in the minority
is there any voting plan for round A today? i'm catching up! PMs with radfield don't really say anything except "we need to get town to co-operate!" Do you have any conclusions to make from that small subset of PMs?
What are you suggesting about chaoser's plan? That it's a way for a massive town death cycle? That doesn't make sense, because one person is supposed to be left behind with 0 votes, and each person has 1 vote left in reserve to be able to make sure that townie towns don't die. What kind of conclusion are you trying to make by talking about this?
|
Sent in my vote; I don't know if I'll be back before deadline. Have to go to an end of year concert, I'll be around when the fun starts in Phase B.
|
Tomorrow is last day of school. Craziness is ensuing (it's a shitshow if yout know what I mean), so it might be tough to keep my responses coherant.
People I most support lynching: BC, prplhz, Cephiro in that order. BC - earlier claimed to analyze prplhz/Katina; in reality had never explained his positions. position on Katina in particular is completely baseless and reeks of fakeness because of being forced to make a read. Has only shat on other people's plans. Says Round A is time for people to be accountable; he doesn't make himself accountable for his "no" vote to keep him from being scrutinized. overall tone unhelpful, derrogative. should die.
prplhz - skirted by on "sorry i play so bad I was busy"; fact remains that he has been present throughout the game (has many posts) but extremely little content, scumhunting, or pro-town behavior at all. that's called active lurking
Cephiro - I'm not as sold on his alignment compared to the other two (because of the manner in which he defends himself), but he hasn't done much things to make him look town. says that the case on him is all meta, but based solely on his thread he's been disruptive (interactions with gonzaw, Palmar) while simultaneously doing jack himself.
Person who I would want lynched right now but can't: sheth I have reasoning, no need to muddle the thread atm, but keep eyes on him please.
@chaoser: my opinion of sandroba - voting trends suggest he's town, and in thread he hasn't been significantly more lurky than others, while also hasn't been disruptive. while prplhz has had plenty of time to catch up by now, it's clear sandroba has only had time to be here or there and honestly should've replaced out like Radfield did. will be obvious as hell if he's scum as time goes on, so not at the top of my concern list.
I'm going to hold off on my votes until it's clear how we will get done what we want to get done.
|
On May 04 2012 16:35 syllogism wrote: Sheth is mafia, I can guarantee this. Anyway, we are killing BC and/or Cephiro today. Do not vote yet if you are town, as WBG says. thank you lord. i thought earlier you were saying "oh sheth explained stuff he's fine :3"
|
FFS I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE 100% CALM OR ANALYTICAL. I realize there are multiple types of play!! why do you keep on essentializing the case against you w/o addressing the core parts??
god when have I ever said you need to be like that Cephiro? honestly you haven't done jack shit!!!!!!!!!!!
|
On May 04 2012 17:30 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:20 EchelonTee wrote: FFS I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE 100% CALM OR ANALYTICAL. I realize there are multiple types of play!! why do you keep on essentializing the case against you w/o addressing the core parts??
god when have I ever said you need to be like that Cephiro? honestly you haven't done jack shit!!!!!!!!!!! I just can't believe that there aren't more townies that realize what's going on. And I can't believe that the DT is just herping around doing smartass decisions that help us to no extent. ???
|
Did you just reveal to thread that there is a DT??? why the hell would you leak that???
|
it's 4:30 am. i'm sleeping. hopefully when I come back I will be more ineberiated and thus more ready to deal with the shenanigans of this thread.
hey people
DISCUSS THE BC LYNCH. you know, the one that most people agree on? is it an easy bandwagon? A good lynch on scum? we should discuss it!
|
On May 05 2012 00:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote:As for wonder gems like this Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:54 EchelonTee wrote:Tomorrow is last day of school. Craziness is ensuing (it's a shitshow if yout know what I mean), so it might be tough to keep my responses coherant. People I most support lynching: BC, prplhz, Cephiro in that order. BC - earlier claimed to analyze prplhz/Katina; in reality had never explained his positions. position on Katina in particular is completely baseless and reeks of fakeness because of being forced to make a read. Has only shat on other people's plans. Says Round A is time for people to be accountable; he doesn't make himself accountable for his "no" vote to keep him from being scrutinized. overall tone unhelpful, derrogative. should die. prplhz - skirted by on "sorry i play so bad I was busy"; fact remains that he has been present throughout the game (has many posts) but extremely little content, scumhunting, or pro-town behavior at all. that's called active lurking Cephiro - I'm not as sold on his alignment compared to the other two (because of the manner in which he defends himself), but he hasn't done much things to make him look town. says that the case on him is all meta, but based solely on his thread he's been disruptive (interactions with gonzaw, Palmar) while simultaneously doing jack himself. Person who I would want lynched right now but can't: sheth I have reasoning, no need to muddle the thread atm, but keep eyes on him please. @chaoser: my opinion of sandroba - voting trends suggest he's town, and in thread he hasn't been significantly more lurky than others, while also hasn't been disruptive. while prplhz has had plenty of time to catch up by now, it's clear sandroba has only had time to be here or there and honestly should've replaced out like Radfield did. will be obvious as hell if he's scum as time goes on, so not at the top of my concern list. I'm going to hold off on my votes until it's clear how we will get done what we want to get done. This is coming from a player who has to this point in the game (at least in thread) done absolutely nothing at all. He suddenly bangs out his first "analysis" post and begins to jump on the same people who have been FoS'd or pressured for the last 24+ hours. Rather than contributing anything new he rehashes the same arguments that have been made previously as if they justify an opinion.
I am the one who mentioned that you had never analyzed Katina despite claiming you did. you didn't respond back then. no one else has mentioned your "Round A accountable" post. Both are points that I've brought up individually. And still, you still attack the attacker, and not the arguement; I haven't done absolutely nothing at all. That's so far from the truth it's hilarious that you would even post that. Read my filter. There's stuff in it. I've been continuously active both in-thread and in PMs. Why don't you talk about any of the cases on you?
@chaoser I tunneled someone off of meta reasons before and that went badly (Surprisingly Normal Mini VII); I've learned that it's better to give people time if it seems like they don't have time. I already posted why my opinion changed over time, again, read my filter. The case on Sandroba is "he's lurking", which isn't very substantial. Syllogism claims that sandroba "claimed scum" in pms; if that evidence is conclusive then fine, but based on thread sandroba isn't the scummiest scum around. Besides, he's not in majority; shoould dicuss majority lynches, no? we've only got like 8 hrs, need to organize.
going to drink. bye
|
Why was prp so close to death? I thought some ppl saw himas confirmed town. cephiro also couldve saved BC if he wanted, but he didn't vote at all. Strange.
|
On May 05 2012 14:50 Cephiro wrote: Also, considering I am town, it's kind of ironic that scum votes saved me. Talk about having a hard time to kill a townie, shouldn't usually be that hard... loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
|
On May 05 2012 06:48 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:30 gonzaw wrote:About BC:On May 05 2012 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 01 2012 21:10 Palmar wrote: I want to kill VE On May 02 2012 07:40 Katina wrote:On May 02 2012 07:09 VisceraEyes wrote: My reads are all very weak because I'm basing them on what I perceive to be what is the best for town, which in this game I'm not sure I even know what the best course of action for town is going to be.
That being said, my scumreads are:
Ace, wherebugsgo, Meapak | | chaoser, Katina, EchelonTee
Don't expect reasoning. It's true, all of my votes are on Sandroba. I feel like he's town and scum are pushing easy mislynches.
I apologize to everyone for my apparent lack of concern for this game, but I've earnestly been playing and trying to find scum regardless of what you may perceive in the thread. But several peoples' attitudes this game (Ace and bugs come to mind) have made this game completely not fun for me to play any longer. O.o I like this. If I had a dime for a everytime someone called me scum without reasoning I would have enough hookers to serve the entire mafia community. Rawr. After going back and rereading, I think that Radfield, VE, Sandroba, EcholenTee should die in the Majority. I have explained Rafield and EcholenTee in one of my previous posts. VE and Sandroba should die for not helping the town. By the way Palmar is Mafia. On May 01 2012 15:03 Foolishness wrote: First we should focus on who we want to kill. Personally I'm fine with VE or sandroba at this point (going to hold off on chaoser for now) and I could be convinced for Radfield as well.
I realize this will be difficult but we need some sort of collective agreement on who to kill. As long as the majority (no pun intended) of us agree on a lynch target then it will be easy to ensure they are killed.
For example, say we want to kill sandroba. That leaves 9 people we want to save. We have a total of 90 votes to work with. We vote in such a way to get each 9 players to have 10 votes. This will be done via spreading out (each player will vote for 5 separate people instead of piling all 5 votes on one person). Thus if anyone (dumb townie or mafia) tries to save him they will be unable to get enough votes to do so. And obviously if someone tries to deviate in such a manner we shoot them somehow. On May 02 2012 06:13 gonzaw wrote:
About VE:
I was leaning town on him at first, because he was very aggressive, and at first he was actively trying to find some scum on wbg (although in a retarded fashion). However, since then he's just trolling, being disruptive, acting defeated even though not many people actually FoSed him or anything. Is this a trend or something? It's been 3 games in a row were people FoS VE and he starts acting like a crybaby and rage quitting.
I'm comparing this to LIII, where he had quite a few votes on him when he ragequitted, and quite a lot of opposition. And there he at least contributed with his reads as well, and also claimed. But now he had hardly any pressure at all when he started acting like this, and didn't contribute at all afterwards. I could see his motivation for ragequitting on LIII, but now I don't see any motivation for him to do so, specially when there isn't a normal lynch system in this game. That makes me think he's most likely mafia
. You are right syllo, both you and bugs never actively said that you wanted ve or ace dead. I do have bugs saying he believed VE was scum in pms though. As such I do have palmar, katina, foolishness, bugs and gonza all fine with VE, and confrontation between ace and many of you via his filter. So i have 5 of 6 people fine with killing a townie, and another large group at confrontation with one who died who was being aggresive towards what you guys were doing. Ehmm, wtf are you arguing about? You wanted VE dead too, here: On May 02 2012 11:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 gonzaw wrote: I don't get why no one of you would even try to cooperate.
At this rate the lynch could be on any of chaoser, VE or Sheth, and scum can choose whoever they like of them to save or kill, specially considering some players seem that they won't claim what they will exactly vote..
@Cephiro: Okay, so you are tunneling wbg now and being greatly aggressive against him too just for calling you out (effectively another OMGUS) Noted.
The thing I don't get is why the hell Ace is playing like he's playing. I know people fear him and shit when he's scum because he's cunning, sways people, etc...but unless I'm missing something in PM land he's just completely useless this game. I even doubt he's scum because of that, but fuck he's being so uncooperative and useless it's hard to believe that. Why would anyone fear ace? He is by far one of the easiest people to deal with in the game. If you think hes useless lynch / shoot him. If you think hes helpful, dont lynch or shoot him and instead med him. As for pm land, it is doubtful he is highly active there as he is renowned for saying how much he hates pm's. As for general way thread is going at the moment. If VE honestly dropped a ton of votes on sandro he has to go. As much as I believe acting individually during phase A is ideal to avoid mafia manipulating the majority/minority system to always be safe, phase B is more important in regards to making sure the scummiest player or if we all agree, players are lynched. Anyone who blatantly refuses to go along with a decision that everyone was basically in agreement of (or at least if they weren't no solid defense was ever provided of sandro) then that person has to be dealt with somehow to avoid continued purposeful sabotage of the voting period. Sandro has yet to come in and provide a reasonable defense of himself. I say this as he made his comment on what he had been up to, but had not at any point then followed it up with any form of solid town sandro play to assure us our worries were unfounded. Has anyone new information on this? VE, why have you gone so suddenly appearing so damn crazy -_-. Yet you are just rambling against syllo/Palmar/wbg/me/etc about "wanting to kill a townie"? Hypocrite much? BC, yes you've made some "analysis", but to be honest it's not very convincing, and it's buried in 1000 posts about you bitching against everybody. Just taking a look at your filter, every post of yours is a GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT THAT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING. For example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=44#866What does this say? Almost nothing. You just complain against Katina/syllo and keep complaining about people "sheeping", and saying that you are against "scumhunters that don't scumhunt publicly". Everything else is clutter that only serves to disrupt. Also, I see you say you make "analysis" and the like, but you still ignore important matters of the discussion. For instance, I don't think I've seen your actual thoughts on Cephiro yet, or at all this game. You said he was "annoyed at being prodded", nothing else. Instead of arguing, making gigantic walls of text filled with clutter, why don't you actually push those reads of yours? Why don't you stop disrupting the thread and post concise analysis, reasonings, etc? About Sheth:Okay so you say you are not sure about Cephiro, that you will reread his posts to make up your mind and that you are 50/50 on him, yet as soon as Round B starts you say you'll give all your votes to him. What's worst, you never MENTION THAT AGAIN. Wtf? You've made the scummiest move in all game and you just shrug it off? Even after you make a list of reads (that don't include Cephiro), and people ask you for your thoughts on Cephiro you just say "I didn't forget anything. I commented on Foolishness' list.", and you never mention again. However you mention once again then: On May 05 2012 03:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Ok after reading through BC's filter I like him. He has strong reads on Katina (whose I have a life defense I thought kind of lame). And I haven't looked at prplhz, but he has a read on him as well.
I actually appreciate him not trusting Palmagism. As I'm somewhat in that same vote except I only distrust the gism part. So I don't mind Cephiro defending BC because earlier BC defended Cephiro. I'm still at around 50/50 for Cephiro btw. What? You now still think Cephiro is "50/50"? Bullshit. You've been defending him all game, calling him town, and now you give your 5 votes to him. There's no way you think he's "50/50". Even worse, you don't put any reasoning behind your read at all. And again YOU DON'T JUSTIFY YOU GIVING YOUR 5 VOTES TO HIM. Speaking of that list of "reads" of yours: On May 05 2012 03:03 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Here are my reads :
BC - Suprised everyone thinks hes mafia. However I can see it a bit as he didn't really talk to me much and he provided me 4 votes out of no where. I do appreciate it BC, but I'd like to know the reason behind it.
Syllo - I'm unsure. I think he has a 60% chance of being mafia, but a lot of people I talk to think hes 100% town... I'm sticking with my thinking that he has a good chance of being mafia.
Palmar - Towniest Townie to Town.
Gonzaw - 59% mafia due to his early tunneling / anger against Cephiro. I'm not sure though Gonzaw I would like to keep you around for another day to see more.
Foolishness - I don't have much of a read on you.
Katina - We've played a few games together and I dont' think we've ever PM'ed or talked together once. Whats up? What are your reads?
WBG - I like WBG so far. I'm content with him living. You are "unsure" of everybody. You are wishy washy as hell. You don't state any reasoning behind anybody. You say things like "I like wbg so far".....???? Syllo and me are 60% scum in your opinion, but you don't say anything, you even imply that you think we are null or something. Apparently you think syllo and me are scum, yet you actually treat us as null reads. You never push us, you never make any analysis on us, nothing. You just skate by the game and act all "good boy" and shit. This is Day 2 and you act like it was 1 hour in Day 1. You don't read anybody's filter, you say "I haven't read him yet" every time and yet you fail to do so. You base some of your reads on things that happened like 2 days ago (you think I'm scum because I was "aggressive" against Cephiro like 3 days ago, yet you mention nothing else at all). Yes, you are scum Sheth. You appear to be absolutely ignorant of everything that's happening in the thread (which is bullshit), and you don't even care about it. Even worse you act like it's nothing and do whatever you want. To chaoser:I see you haven't answered my new PM yet. Doesn't matter, answer me here then. Why do you think ET is scum? What do you think of Cephiro? I care about whats going on. It was just a tough day1 with me having little time. Today I'm starting to get more ideas and reads. I'm also not acting or scum. "more ideas" - sounds promising. what ideas? don't see any. "i'm also not acting or scum" - convincing defense yo
if there are pms i didnt respond to I'll get to them tomorrow.
|
It's something, but not individually conclusive I would say. You have to take everything scum do with a grain of salt; what if he stuck those votes on them specifically to make them look worse? An opposite example would be when VE continuously exposed in TL Mafia LI "lynch toad, lynch toad, lynch toad"; when VE flips red, it would seem to make toad look green in comparison, but it turned out to be a bus. In this case, you can look at the scenario and see how scum BC could've tried to save MZ/Cephiro as such, but tbh that seems like too obvious/sloppy of a play unless he knew Cephiro was in danger of dying. Esp. with MZ those 2 votes can't be "the case" on meapak; there has to be more to call him scum.
|
Sorry for being super AWOL; this weekend has been a little crazy for me. I'll be back fully active starting next phase.
Why do sloosh/chaoser look bad WBG? Did I miss a case somewhere?
|
On May 07 2012 12:35 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 12:27 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 07 2012 12:16 Liquid`Sheth wrote:On May 07 2012 12:11 wherebugsgo wrote: As opposed to telling palmar, since that would actually make sense?
Syllo was right, this should teach you not to unnecessarily lie as scum. Why would I tell Palmar? Hes pretty much one of the ppl I coudn't tell. I wanted a reaction from syllogism and his group. If I told Palmar he'd tell Syllogism. You're point is terribly bad. -_- So you want me to believe that you thought BC was town, considered giving him votes yesterday, and based this all on having precisely one PM sent to him with nothing in response. And you chose BC, of all people. The person who everyone was trying to kill. Who flipped scum. Who you have no PM logs with, despite the fact that he replied to every single PM I sent him, even up to just a few hours before lynch. You have no other logs with BC. It is quite frankly impossible for me to believe that as town you would be in such a situation. Congratz you are closed minded. Also he never responded to me so its nice that he responded to you. Sheth, I like you, but I'm pretty sure you're on a scum team with BC and forged that PM to try and fake an interaction ^^
|
I don't like watching Cephiro flail. Honestly it makes me feel crappy about the game in general. Which, I guess, is the goal of anti-town people, but I wish it didn't have to turn so nasty.
|
On May 08 2012 02:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I've figured out why I'm being targeted like this btw.
If you are mafia you actually want to kill other mafia. So that makes sense that syllo's mafia play would still be this hunting really badly for the other house. Anyway I'm town, and I think my flip will actually help town more then anything else I can do because you guys seem to just assume I'm mafia regardless of what I say. Look at Gonzaw the kid has a good chance of being mafia. ? I thought syllo was your towniest town read, 2nd only to Palmar?
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Phew, glad you lived. o o posting my case on Sheth in a sec
|
in case it's not clear, the above PM was directed towards syllogism. indicating a desire for syllogism to continue living. which implies that he thinks that syllogism is pro-town. which means Sheth's recent turn around towards syllogism doesn't make sense.
|
RE: Case on Sheth
My PM convo with Sheth, along with certain in-thread actions make me think he's scum, not even taking into account the recent dip in posting.
PMs with Sheth (mostly D1/N1): + Show Spoiler +Original Message From EchelonTee: Who do you want to be lynched today? I want VE to be lynched. Show nested quote +Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: I'm definitely fine with a VE lynch, he is playing completely diffierent then he normally does. I'm also ok with Sandroba who I think is slightly weird. I don't have too great of a read on anyone at this point in time. Just going with gut feels at the moment. how about you?> Original Message From EchelonTee: Really o.O? Because you said earlier that you were going to give a vote to VE. Did you already send in that vote? Why did you think he was worthy of giving a vote earlier, and what changed? I already said that I want VE to be lynched, for reasons I posted in thread. I also think prplhz looks pretty bad, but I'll wait for him to get his feet off the ground, as he said he is still catching up. Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Eh I like VE. We've played a lot together so I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I just think his play is so different that its not even worth me defending him. I sent in my votes, 0 were for VE. I sent 4 Cephiro // 1 Meapak. I haven't heard much at all from prplhz other then every day hes townie. o o Original Message From EchelonTee: What do you mean by "haven't heard much from prplhz other than every day he's townie"? I don't quite get that. Any reason why you think M_Z deserves a vote? I think he's pretty townie too, but you should probably post reasoning in thread or something. Though a lot of the vets don't seem to value transparency enough, it helps town a lot as such. Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Oh I remember reading where prplhz said something like this is my 16th time in a row of being a townie. So I just made a reference to every day I'm shuffling.
Then yea I geuss I should explain meapak, but its really just a feel and how he has reponded to inquiries. =)
I bolded the parts that I found significant. Sheth is continuously wishy washy and non-committal during the early portion of the game, and it shows in his PMs. While not having solid monster reads early isn't a crime, it's strange that he has 2 apparent scum reads (VE/Sandroba), but sounds like he doesn't have a genuine opinion on them.
When I poke him for supporting VE then jumping ship and calling for his lynch, his response is again really strange. Instead of saying "I think he's scum for his different playstyle", he says "it's not even worth me defending him". Call me a nitpicker, but it's as though Sheth as ready to let VE die because it's not worth anything to him, when it would make more sense of he wanted VE to die for thinking he is scum. I already pointed out earlier how your reasoning for thinking VE was different ("he's not being as quiet and conserved") was utterly wrong, and sounded fabricated.
Lastly, asking about his view on M_Z he still just has "feels" on how the game is. Once again, this isn't inherently scummy, but the tone in which he says this makes him sound like he has no genuine reads. If he was approaching the game from a town perspective, he would have direct reasons for thinking this person is scum or that person is town.
Some of your posts mentioning Cephiro/BC/syllogism don't make much sense.
On May 04 2012 06:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I haven't been reading too too closely, but the fact that Cephiro put 4 votes on VE makes him look a small percentage better. Cephiro is still probably one of my top candidates for being town. As for being mafia I'm really unsure other then Gonzaw. Syllo scares me, and I scare him so I suppose there could be something there.
On May 04 2012 11:56 Liquid`Sheth wrote:I liked him a lot early on, and I'm still ok with him. I wanted him to be more active in PM'ing me back, but I'll take what I can get. I'm about 50/50 on him right now. I imagine with more time I'll get to know a lot better. I haven't had a ton of time to just sit and analyze his posts either. I do imagine if hes mafia I wont' live too much longer anyway. So just my thoughts at the moment You say Cephiro is one of your top candidates for town at 6:12, then at 11:56 you say you're only 50/50 on him? Just because he didn't PM you that much? That doesn't seem like a substantial reason to change your mind. And I don't get why you said "I do imagine if he's mafia I won't live too much longer". You were like one of his only supporters, why would he shoot you? So does the fact that you not dying mean he's town? That statement is just ??? When questioned for your reasoning, it's seems like you don't have any legitimate basing.
On May 05 2012 03:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Ok after reading through BC's filter I like him. He has strong reads on Katina (whose I have a life defense I thought kind of lame). And I haven't looked at prplhz, but he has a read on him as well.
I actually appreciate him not trusting Palmagism. As I'm somewhat in that same vote except I only distrust the gism part. So I don't mind Cephiro defending BC because earlier BC defended Cephiro. I'm still at around 50/50 for Cephiro btw. On May 05 2012 12:16 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Yea.. well done Syllo / Palmar in finding BC! So you thought BC was town b/c 1. had a read on Katina 2. had a read on prplhz 3. didn't trust Palmagism. The first two points don't make any sense because you haven't expressed that you think Katina/prplhz are scum. The third sort of makes sense (that you would trust Palmar and not syllo), but you don't explain why. Besides, there have been a number of people who were against the conglomarate, such as M_Z and chaoser at different points in time. How does that opposition make BC look town? I dunno, you never explained.
Later, when BC flipped scum, your congratualtory post just made me LoL. After saying that BC is town and that syllo is likely scum, when the night post comes and you are completely wrong, you respond to the night post with "gj palmagism!" so now syllo is town in your book? since you give him cred along with Palmar for the BC kill, even though Foolishness was probably the primary pusher (and died for it). you continually shift your attitude towards syllo for not very legit reasons.
Gonzaw already mentioned why this batch of reads is a load of non-commital fakiness. Go see.
Knowing you to be an intelligent guy, I don't think the explanation to these accusations can just be "oh I just didn't have legit reasoning for doing all these things". It just looks like you're scum.
|
=/ no ban discussion please... sheth syllo, come on. we're gentlemen.
|
My case on Sheth got buried on the last page, take a look if you missed it. + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2012 04:31 EchelonTee wrote:RE: Case on ShethMy PM convo with Sheth, along with certain in-thread actions make me think he's scum, not even taking into account the recent dip in posting. PMs with Sheth (mostly D1/N1):+ Show Spoiler +Original Message From EchelonTee: Who do you want to be lynched today? I want VE to be lynched. Show nested quote +Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: I'm definitely fine with a VE lynch, he is playing completely diffierent then he normally does. I'm also ok with Sandroba who I think is slightly weird. I don't have too great of a read on anyone at this point in time. Just going with gut feels at the moment. how about you?> Original Message From EchelonTee: Really o.O? Because you said earlier that you were going to give a vote to VE. Did you already send in that vote? Why did you think he was worthy of giving a vote earlier, and what changed? I already said that I want VE to be lynched, for reasons I posted in thread. I also think prplhz looks pretty bad, but I'll wait for him to get his feet off the ground, as he said he is still catching up. Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Eh I like VE. We've played a lot together so I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I just think his play is so different that its not even worth me defending him. I sent in my votes, 0 were for VE. I sent 4 Cephiro // 1 Meapak. I haven't heard much at all from prplhz other then every day hes townie. o o Original Message From EchelonTee: What do you mean by "haven't heard much from prplhz other than every day he's townie"? I don't quite get that. Any reason why you think M_Z deserves a vote? I think he's pretty townie too, but you should probably post reasoning in thread or something. Though a lot of the vets don't seem to value transparency enough, it helps town a lot as such. Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Oh I remember reading where prplhz said something like this is my 16th time in a row of being a townie. So I just made a reference to every day I'm shuffling.
Then yea I geuss I should explain meapak, but its really just a feel and how he has reponded to inquiries. =)
I bolded the parts that I found significant. Sheth is continuously wishy washy and non-committal during the early portion of the game, and it shows in his PMs. While not having solid monster reads early isn't a crime, it's strange that he has 2 apparent scum reads (VE/Sandroba), but sounds like he doesn't have a genuine opinion on them. When I poke him for supporting VE then jumping ship and calling for his lynch, his response is again really strange. Instead of saying "I think he's scum for his different playstyle", he says "it's not even worth me defending him". Call me a nitpicker, but it's as though Sheth as ready to let VE die because it's not worth anything to him, when it would make more sense of he wanted VE to die for thinking he is scum. I already pointed out earlier how your reasoning for thinking VE was different ("he's not being as quiet and conserved") was utterly wrong, and sounded fabricated. Lastly, asking about his view on M_Z he still just has "feels" on how the game is. Once again, this isn't inherently scummy, but the tone in which he says this makes him sound like he has no genuine reads. If he was approaching the game from a town perspective, he would have direct reasons for thinking this person is scum or that person is town.
Some of your posts mentioning Cephiro/BC/syllogism don't make much sense. Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote: I haven't been reading too too closely, but the fact that Cephiro put 4 votes on VE makes him look a small percentage better. Cephiro is still probably one of my top candidates for being town. As for being mafia I'm really unsure other then Gonzaw. Syllo scares me, and I scare him so I suppose there could be something there.
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:56 Liquid`Sheth wrote:I liked him a lot early on, and I'm still ok with him. I wanted him to be more active in PM'ing me back, but I'll take what I can get. I'm about 50/50 on him right now. I imagine with more time I'll get to know a lot better. I haven't had a ton of time to just sit and analyze his posts either. I do imagine if hes mafia I wont' live too much longer anyway. So just my thoughts at the moment You say Cephiro is one of your top candidates for town at 6:12, then at 11:56 you say you're only 50/50 on him? Just because he didn't PM you that much? That doesn't seem like a substantial reason to change your mind. And I don't get why you said "I do imagine if he's mafia I won't live too much longer". You were like one of his only supporters, why would he shoot you? So does the fact that you not dying mean he's town? That statement is just ??? When questioned for your reasoning, it's seems like you don't have any legitimate basing. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Ok after reading through BC's filter I like him. He has strong reads on Katina (whose I have a life defense I thought kind of lame). And I haven't looked at prplhz, but he has a read on him as well.
I actually appreciate him not trusting Palmagism. As I'm somewhat in that same vote except I only distrust the gism part. So I don't mind Cephiro defending BC because earlier BC defended Cephiro. I'm still at around 50/50 for Cephiro btw. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:16 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Yea.. well done Syllo / Palmar in finding BC! So you thought BC was town b/c 1. had a read on Katina 2. had a read on prplhz 3. didn't trust Palmagism. The first two points don't make any sense because you haven't expressed that you think Katina/prplhz are scum. The third sort of makes sense (that you would trust Palmar and not syllo), but you don't explain why. Besides, there have been a number of people who were against the conglomarate, such as M_Z and chaoser at different points in time. How does that opposition make BC look town? I dunno, you never explained. Later, when BC flipped scum, your congratualtory post just made me LoL. After saying that BC is town and that syllo is likely scum, when the night post comes and you are completely wrong, you respond to the night post with "gj palmagism!" so now syllo is town in your book? since you give him cred along with Palmar for the BC kill, even though Foolishness was probably the primary pusher (and died for it). you continually shift your attitude towards syllo for not very legit reasons. Gonzaw already mentioned why this batch of reads is a load of non-commital fakiness. Go see.Knowing you to be an intelligent guy, I don't think the explanation to these accusations can just be "oh I just didn't have legit reasoning for doing all these things". It just looks like you're scum.
|
wait, are we for sure following prplhz plan?
|
On May 08 2012 05:32 prplhz wrote: I'm think that gonzaw/slOosh might be on to something here, if there's a townie in there then he's probably dead instead of any scum. This is probably not a great plan since I thought it up so I'm a bit worried that people are just going along with it for the most. I hope everybody plays along and we kill the three and then we see what comes out of it. are you saying that they are on to something = we shouldn't do the plan or what? this needs to be clear or it could go haywire.
|
On May 08 2012 08:23 flamewheel wrote: MZ I had to search for two minutes to find the "wat". wat
|
I should just stop making fleshed out cases. they never work.
|
On May 08 2012 14:03 Cephiro wrote: No need to fearmonger. Also, I've been right three times out of 3, how is that? I knew VE was town, I knew BC was scum, I knew Sheth was Town.
BC would have died even if I hadn't overslept, as I was not going to vote for him. Let me explain it to you so you'll understand as well: As BC was universally outed, and his team agreed to bus him, the best play in this situation to try and take as many with him as possible. This is where my "bad town play" comes in. I was telling people how I considered him town, and he backed me up in return to some extent, to try to convince me of his townyness. This made BC fairly sure that I would have voted for him, as is also explained by him only giving 2 votes to me, as he was expecting me to give him easily at least three. That would have been enough to save himself but get me lynched, and as I would have flipped town, he could've argued about how he was right and possibly gained some credibility. The real situation was however that I trapped him all along. I ensured the BC lynch. How did you know those players were town or scum? I don't know anyone's alignment but my own.
Why didn't you PM anyone that you were going to do a "bad town play", so that there was some corroboration that you were trying a gambit? Doing a bad town play looks an awful like scum play if you don't explain it.
Why didn't you reveal this explanation directly after the BC flip, as opposed to now? You could've tried to regain some town trust and refocus attentions on scumhunting scum, if you were town.
|
On May 09 2012 01:30 chaoser wrote:1.I still think ET is mafia due to his changing stance on sandro. HE goes from "I will tunnel you" to "he should be a secondary lynch" to "give him more time". The secondary lynch one was said WHILE sandro was in the majority. His excuse for his change of opinion is "The case on Sandroba is "he's lurking", which isn't very substantial." While he himself criticizes prp for only that, lurking Show nested quote +prplhz - skirted by on "sorry i play so bad I was busy"; fact remains that he has been present throughout the game (has many posts) but extremely little content, scumhunting, or pro-town behavior at all. that's called active lurking Show nested quote +RE: The prplhz case
While I don't necessarily agree with M_Z's meta arguement against prplhz (the games where prpl talked about setup more were both themed games), the various points indicating prplhz Mafia traits are comprehensive and well thought out, including his lack of scumhunting and lurky indecision. I honestly don't see why a bunch of people think prplhz is very townie. 2.It makes no sense that he would go from "tunnel sandro" to "i'm excusing him cause the only case against him is that he's lurky" while also saying prp is scummy and the only case he can bring against him is...that he is lurky (as he doesn't agree with MZ's meta argument against prp) 3.He also accepts WBG/Syllo/palmar's accusations that people are not contributing or not being a more active participant of the game as being mafia. Which is funny because they use that same argument to admonish town as well. So if they think you're townie and you're not contributing, you're just townie that needs to work harder. If you're someone they think is mafia, they say your not contributing makes you mafia. WTF?
1.why I wanted to give sandro time: + Show Spoiler +Original Message From VisceraEyes: I do think he's town. I think his initial stance on having as few people up for lynch was the correct town viewpoint and I buy his story of being busy. We're all busy. Sometimes we can't be exactly as active as we want.
I'm willing to give Sandroba a pass for now because my initial read on him was town and the only case against him right now is his inactivity. Activity isn't the only indicator of alignment, nor even the best one regarding some players. Sandroba is trolly and clearly doesn't care when he's scum. He's shown interest (at least tertiary interest) in the welfare of the most number of townies, and I'm accepting that as a town-tell for now.
So yes, to answer your question as fully as you initially had hoped, I actually believe sandro is town. Sometimes, I take into account flipped green's reasoning. Esp. if I respect said person's play.
2.why I thought prplhz was scummy: active lurking I already changed my mind on him, anyways.
3.Don't know what to say about your 3rd paragraph, because it doesn't make sense to me. You say "wbg/syllo/palmar are accusing people who not contributing of being mafia", but "they do that to town to", so they use the same arguement to call some people townie, and some people mafia. I don't know how that applies to me. I've called people scum if I felt they weren't contributing in a scummy way; there is a difference between scummy inactivity and just plain ol lurking.
Is there anything else in your case I should respond to, or is that all the substance you had?
|
=/ they're whittling at the leaders now.
On May 09 2012 12:38 gonzaw wrote: The 2 KP is surprising.
Both teams could have shot at Ace and Foolishness, but maybe there was a medic save or a vet hit in one of those nights? Seems unlikely though, considering 6 VTs flipped yet no blue was killed yet, but both teams shooting both Ace and Foolishness seems even more unlikely. I could see both teams shooting at Foolishness, but not Ace. I could see some sort of blue action happening; perhaps there's only a very small handful of blues and they've avoided notice thus far. It could be any number of things.
Regardless of what's been afoot at night, we should proceed with the reads we've been developing for a while, esp. the ones put forth by the dead.
|
On May 09 2012 07:31 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Is there anything else in your case I should respond to, or is that all the substance you had? Wait...what was the case against me again? Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who initiated the push on you. That was Foolishness. You know, the confirmed town scumslayer.
Though it is amusing to see how different people respond to pressure; in your case, gonzaw summed it up well:
About chaoser:
Damn, I regret not getting him killed yesterday. I know what you are doing chaoser, you are doing the exact same thing BC did on Day 2. You are arguing and arguing against syllo/wbg/Palmar, discrediting them as much as you can, disrupting the thread as much as you can doing the whole "aggressive" act, and meanwhile you throw some half-assed FoSes around (like BC did with Katina/Foolishness).
|
I'll respond to cases and the such later, probably after deadline; finals week in full swing.
|
Can you stop being an asshole Cephiro? It's really making me not want to play this game, and I really don't want to play future games with you after this.
|
You haven't done anything rule breaking, and certainly other people have been assholes (calling people retards, saying fuck you, etc), but just your entirely derisive attitude and stuck up attitude towards everyone except dead people is incredibly obnoxious and sickens me to read. Usually I can just ignore internet trolls, but I am forced to read your posts if I want to play this game. I am not suggesting that your play is the wrong way to play, or illegal, but I certainly don't want to play around it in the future.
|
Regardless of whether you're town or scum, you've gotten progressively less reasonable, more antagonistic, and on the whole unpleasant to play with. The fact that you can't even realize how much of an ass you are being just shows how arrogant you've gotten. You say people overreact towards you, and that the town "kings" are ruining this game, while you run around saying "I was right about everything! you guys are all terrible at this game! I hold all the voting power!". My only hope is that this is just a persona you are playing for purposes of the "Liar Game".
|
Alright, I'm done with that topic.
I'm against a multi-lynch unless there is full coordination, because otherwise it will be easily disrupted.
|
On May 10 2012 12:51 sandroba wrote: I live once more! Sorry prpl, if town lynched me we would auto lose. ? what about prplhz?
|
And are you implying that "town" is different from "we"? dafuq?
|
Do whatever you want, idgaf. Some life advice; if someone says you are being an asshole, look at yourself first before blaming others. Maybe you're biased to not think you're being an asshole, because of your self-perception.
Like I have said about 3-4 times, based on ONLY THIS CURRENT GAME RIGHT HERE THIS THREAD, you look extremely scummy.
|
On May 10 2012 13:50 EchelonTee wrote: And are you implying that "town" is different from "we"? dafuq? This was about the sandroba thing that I quoted.
|
On May 10 2012 14:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Right now there's 6 town and 5 scum. I'm a mislynch, so I propose we kill Palmar today, since I feel best about him being scum at this point.
I don't think we can multi-lynch effectively right now. We have people who are supposed to get lynched as soon as they hit the majority, so they can screw with a multi-lynch without any fear, essentially. Also, we're at the point where we can't unnecessarily kill any townies, or we lose control of the lynch more than we already have.
Why Palmar over chaoser?
And I changed my mind, we're multi-lynching if possible. We're in a LYLO of sorts; even if we lynch one scum today, assuming scum 2 shots us tonight, it will be
6-5 into
4-4
And town will already have only equal voting presence compared to scum, while they still have their KP. We need to get scum killed, now. Honestly I'm baffled how there can be a constant 2KP 12town vs. 6scum, especially with the M/M voting system where scum can hide if they get lucky; it seems too skewed against town.
Hrmph. I wonder if there's a 3rd party, and they used a shot on the third night.
|
... Wiggles is making a lot of sense. Sloosh s attack post (fear mongering, scum planning) is absurd/wrong. Mz's case is good but not conclusive. I mislynched wiggles butt in jubjub as scum using similar reasons. I've felt wiggles was town for a while and seeing recent posts/reactions is convincing me that wiggles is town; I don't see how sentiment dropped so sharply towards him.
In school can't write full response. but I don't want wiggles dying.
|
I'm assuming companion cube is cephiro? That wasn't made clear.
|
Wiggles, your opinion on chaoser?
Palmar, your opinion on Wiggles?
|
On May 11 2012 01:36 slOosh wrote:1st - who the heck is companion cube? 2nd Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 14:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Right now there's 6 town and 5 scum. I'm a mislynch, so I propose we kill Palmar today, since I feel best about him being scum at this point.
I don't think we can multi-lynch effectively right now. We have people who are supposed to get lynched as soon as they hit the majority, so they can screw with a multi-lynch without any fear, essentially. Also, we're at the point where we can't unnecessarily kill any townies, or we lose control of the lynch more than we already have.
It's getting to the point where scum will have to shoot the other scum team, or they'll risk losing in a king-maker scenario where town gets to pick who wins, which I'm sure would be unsatisfactory, or to pure numbers of the other team if too much KP hits the town or town mislynches too many at once and gets their numbers wiped out. So, they should keep that in mind when they send in kills tonight. Mr. Wiggles is fearmongering. Its 6 town, 3 scum and 2 scum. He proposes that we kill Palmar but still hasn't provided any case / reasoning at all. At all. He is considered a serious lynch candidate but is still using his time to ask other's for their opinions rather than convincing people that Palmar is scum. And the last line - looks seriously like scum team suggesting something to the other scum team. Why would town make a suggestion for scum team and think they would listen? Town agenda conflicts with scum agenda. Most likely scum teams aligning agenda temporarily. Also betrays some understanding of the KP system. It was 1 shot D1, D2 and 2 shots D3. Straight up he assumes 2KP again. It's not fearmongering, I came to the exact same conclusion. So did gonzaw; we are in dire straits atm. Wiggles not wanting any mislynchs is reasonable. Since he has now posted an extensive case on palmar, your point is moot.
Wanting the scum team to shoot other scum is a good thing. You're the one fearmongering making it seem like wiggles is making anti town agenda.
This is a really illogical post, and from you sloosh, it's weird as hell.
On May 11 2012 02:37 prplhz wrote: I kinda want to just kill both chaoser and Mr. Wiggles. Thanks for the contribution.
Posts like these are why I feel that the push on Wiggles is artifical and a quick mislynch. There has been no mounting suspicion on Wiggles; sure WBG posted some thoguhts on him the previous night, but he also was suspicious of Palmar and chaoser, no? Who else has thoguht Wiggles was scum? Everyone suddenly jumped on board with his lynch despite there being bigger following on chaoser (who no one is discussing much... reminds me of no one discussing BC). yes Wiggles has been wishywashy, but that isn't enough to call him scum and he's been open in thread, discussing his thoguhts freely.
|
On May 11 2012 05:08 Katina wrote: Palmar > Wiggles.
Don't see how this is even an argument. I am fine with chaoser and Palmar dying. ilu Katina <3
On May 11 2012 05:09 prplhz wrote: We kinda need to agree on something here. I'm planning on trying to keep Palmar alive so you're going to have a problem if you want to kill him.
here's a thought. let's kill chaoser!
|
Awesome things that chaoser has done in this day's entire cycle:
On May 09 2012 12:28 chaoser wrote: woah...two kp? On May 10 2012 12:44 chaoser wrote: The black wind howls again...
Pretty comparable to contributive posts like this, eh?
On May 10 2012 12:51 sandroba wrote: I live once more! Sorry prpl, if town lynched me we would auto lose. On May 10 2012 16:28 sandroba wrote: If you guys try to derive who is scum from me being scum you will always going to fail, because guess what: I'm not scum! I agree that we should mass lynch the majority though. Seems to be a lot of scum there. Yummy.
Wiggles you said "there no case on chaoser". Look at foolishness' D1 read. It's mfcking foolishness. Look at what chaoser has done the last 24h after being hammered on by syllo/WBG, who both flipped green. Look at how he's tried to spread doubt and confusion among our town leaders, then just shoot them down when the time is right. He's scum, and he's our lynch.
|
My final is in 3 hours. I can't spend any more time in thread and will be back ~1 hour before deadline. No matter what, chaoser needs to die today; we can't afford a mislynch.
|
I'm back.
Take it easy if you're not feeling well, slOosh.
|
|
|
wewt
wth happened with voting?
|
Interesting things -
Cephiro - 3vote ET, 2vote Wiggles Sandroba - 4vote Chaoser, 1vote Palmar Chaoser - 5vote Palmar
I didn't expect Sandroba to actually vote for sloosh, but 4voting chaoser I did not expect. Palmar also got an assload of votes, 5 from confirmed scum Chaoser.
|
LOL
Will be posting a phat post before deadline tonight. PM me if you want to talk, I'll be in and out.
|
ugh, just got done with crap and I'm completely exhausted. If I die, people know my reads.
|
:o no one died? wow i was expecting to enter a 4town4scum scenario, we've lucked out like sht or something.
....better not be delay. i think only gmarhsal does that
|
yeah, just got back from a picnic
|
Did you mislabel that? It looks like Sandroba is chaoser's teammate.
|
Oh, my bad, thought you were talking about Palmar in that instance. I agree that Sandroba looks very much so like their teammate.
Wiggles, what do you think of Cephiro?
|
On May 13 2012 12:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 07:11 EchelonTee wrote: Oh, my bad, thought you were talking about Palmar in that instance. I agree that Sandroba looks very much so like their teammate.
Wiggles, what do you think of Cephiro? I think he's scum right now. What do you think of Palmar? scum
|
Sent in my votes; am getting completely pwned by finals so sorry for AWOLness.
Hoping that today's flip will consolidate the momentum of the game.
|
|
if one of you guys is playing me hard I'm going to be so pissed at myself postgame
|
No one randomly claimed their vote? That's a first. Tonight I have my last essay due and will be able to fully commit to this game. As it stands, people talking like this is putting more life in the game, so don't let discussion die down.
|
On May 17 2012 07:07 Katina wrote: Have to leave early today so sent in my votes as planned ^
There shouldn't be anyone to randomly save Sandro this time... hoping we strike true.
|
gonzaw carrying this team. good stuff.
I don't understand why sandroba is just blatantly not trying, voting for M_Z not even in the majority. I guess that gives more credence to the school of thought that he is yokoya, and has little to no chance left at winning.
Fun fact: almost all flipped scum tried to bash on Katina.
|
On May 18 2012 00:39 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2012 15:42 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On May 17 2012 14:54 gonzaw wrote: You know people, you are allowed to talk and shit.
Post your thoughts on the Palmar flip and our "plan" please.
We may try something similar in a next day, or maybe we won't. Scum will just have to WIFOM about it every time we post a plan, and try to follow it and have the chance we'll fuck them secretly, or just out themselves by voting to save each other when they weren't actually in danger of dying.
Of course, all of that after we kill sandroba, that's for real this time (if we try to do another "secret" plan he'll fuck it up again, so no way we are letting him live any longer) The palmar flip wasn't surprising at all. After syllo/WBG flipped, it was painfully obvious he was scum. I don't think your plan was very good. Sure, we killed Palmar finally, but there was absolutely no discussion on prplhz in the thread. I didn't have a strong feeling that he was scum, and if you had actually bothered to make a case in the thread, I would have said so. I don't like that you're ready to flip people based on your own suspicions and with no discussion, as it can very easily lose us the game if you're wrong. Why'd you keep your suspicions of prplhz out of the thread? Why would I keep my suspicions of prplhz out of the thread? Because 60% of you were scum that's why. I only trust my reads with MZ and ET, and I discuss them with them. I'm not "ready to flip people based on my own suspicions", we talk things through, I'm not controlling the game like a dictator or anything. I was suspicious of prplhz, because of: 1)His terrible Day 1 (read MZ's case on D1/N1 against prplhz for that) 2)Lack of contributions, lack of reads 3)The reads he had, he justified them only by saying "I'm sheeping syllo" 4)Unconditional support of Palmar without even stating why 5)Unconditional support of a SCUM Palmar without even stating why 6)Not only not cooperating with us (me/MZ/ET), but also going against our plans many times (like that time he gave Palmar 5 votes and saved him from the lynch) It basically boils down to that. Also, had we presented our read on prplhz last day, we wouldn't be able to perform our plan and try to get all 3 lynched, since scum would know something was off and may have tried to fuck up our plan in a different way (for instance Palmar or prplhz voting differently, or giving 5 votes to each other or something). Well people, what I'm expecting of you (or at least from the townie out of you) is to post your reads and who you think the remaining 2 scum (other than sandro) are at the moment, and explain why. Don't worry, we'll still only kill sandro tomorrow. If my guess is right and scum don't have any more KP, then we won't have any problems with that. We'll lynch sandro and then deal with the remaining 2 scum the next day (on D8) +M_Z's suspicions of prplhz were well known and well documented; there had been a lot of discussion about prplhz already, and you might've noticed how syllo/Palmar considered prplhz "confirmed town" because he was willing to give them all of his votes. The logic was fairly sound, but over time, and with Palmar looking more scummy, the connection between them too was looking suspicious.
@Wiggles, I thought you would be more happy about the fact that your scum read got lynched. Sure we lost prplhz in the crossfire, but it seems like your just discrediting our circle. It's easy to say in hindsight "I didn't think he was scum, should've discussed it", but with a format like this (hidden votes influencing everything), some town secrecy is necessary to make plays.
|
Mafia KP is severely gimped somehow; this means that we have the time to proceed carefully and according to plan, no need to rush things.
Vote plan should have been distributed through PMs already.
|
Going to be flying for most of tomorrow; if I sent you PMs please respond with thoughts sometime.
|
I lean, for the most part, town on both of you, and I thought I made that clear in pms. I'm not sure why you're expecting a sloosh katina kill when sandroba is the expressed lynch forthe day.
Put my votes down. Flying back homeeeee
|
Clarification: I lean town on katina and sloosh.
Though you asking for in thread accountability is good for the discussion, having everyones full reads out there isn't the most optimal pro town thing. Scum could snipe those standing against them while leaving behind sympathizers, or w.e wifom.
|
On May 21 2012 08:26 Katina wrote: If we're going by votes and nothing else, EchelonTee is the last member of BC's team and Meapak is the most likely candidate for Palmar's team. Wiggles is the other likely candidate. This assuming there were no stacks. I lost track of who you thought is scum; is it me and MZ now ? o.O ??
ur last 1/3 of posts have been a lot of discreditation and fighting and stuff. u were being a lot more constructive before lol; it sounds a lot like you've run out of people to accuse/bus I really thought you were town
|
lol scum have no KP left or something
|
my name is ET and I approve of this plan
|
wait why do you think gonzaw is scum? b/c he has been coming up with the plans? I fail to see how that's inherently scummy. it takes a lot of work to make those plans and he has always come up with contingencies and measured calculations to ensure that no mass deaths could occur. If I was scum controlling, I would have surely kept my teamates alive through flukes, or organized a mass death. yeah, he's promoting a mass death now, but why now and not before when his teammates were still alive? He could've just kept on single lynching, and no one would ever suspect him b/c almost everyone trusts him too much.
votes sent in
Wiggles hasn't said anything during the phase, I feel good about him being scum. I remember him fighting to the last breath when I mislynched him in JubJub (him town me scum)
I feel bad about sloosh dying cuz im pretty sure he's town take one for the team brudder
|
.............................................................
if ur townie PM me
Meapak not invited
|
.... is it really impossible for town to win? I can't believe I've gone through all of this just for an stalemate or an autoloss
|
It seemed to work for you since Katina saved you (thank you Katina, Cephiro #2 at this point). what's that gonzaw? are you.... Katina bashing?
Sloosh what do you mean about "auto prisoner" situation?
|
ho ly ballsssssssss that flip :o
I said I was almost certain he was scum but still, damn...
also, Day9!! :D
|
...I did make it clear to sloosh that I thought he was town, and that you two were scum.
If MZ was scum, he would've shot me; I don't see any other reasonable choice. Gonzaw either truly believed sloosh was the other scum, or knew he was a mislynch; either way he was not at all going to kill MZ. MZ has nothing to gain by killing gonzaw, other than losing an ally and attempting to win me over through WIFOM, while he has everything to gain from killing me. Why win through a WIFOM arguement when you could just kill people suspicious of you and win with your "scumbuddy"? Though I suppose, it is possible that MZ knew gonzaw was scum and didn't want to draw in a 1-1-1 kingmaker scenario (i.e. shoot me and gonzaw remains), which is pretty logical, except for the fact that MZ had called for a draw earlier in the game.
If sloosh was scum, he could've either shot MZ or gonzaw; shooting me makes no sense, as I was his only supporter. Him shooting MZ could've worked, since it would leave only him and gonzaw alive, and I had essentially given my support to sloosh over PMs; I had also expressed confidence that gonzaw was scum based off of meta and a few slips, while I was still internally debating between MZ and sloosh. Shooting gonzaw doesn't entirely make sense from sloosh's perspective... it would force me to re-analysze both MZ and sloosh, whereas if he simply shot MZ then I would want to kill gonzaw. The only thing that mixes this up is the two family thing; if sloosh believed me when I said gonzaw was scum, then shooting MZ would result in a 1-1-1 scenario... I feel like sloosh wanted that less than MZ. Hrmph.
What I don't completely trust is you guys claiming your votes. For all I know, one or both of you could be lying to end up in the minority in some weird way and from either a town or scum perspective, you would most definitely want to end up in the minority. Scum - in minority = game is won, town - in minority = able to make that judgement on who to vote.
Going to write up my full thoughts on you two below, after re-reading again.
|
On May 24 2012 08:33 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote + It seemed to work for you since Katina saved you (thank you Katina, Cephiro #2 at this point). what's that gonzaw? are you.... Katina bashing? also, would just like to highlight this again; Katina bashing, the ultimate way to find scum.
|
Are illegal votes allowed? I was under the impression they were sort of allowed as a warning, but using it as a game mechanic is fine?
|
If I base my opinion solely on the recent deaths and past few days, then I would say MZ is town.
However, if I consider the whole game, I would say sloosh is town.
Either way, I'm voting Yes. I'll ask Protact if it's ok for me to vote for neither which = town victory, but it seems unreasonable that town could cop out of LYLO in that way.
|
Sloosh wouldn't have lied about his vote. If so, then if the townie believed him, then they would both be in the majority, which is just dumb as either scum or town as it would ruin his plan. MZ could've lied about his vote, but in that case it would be sloosh in the minority, me+MZ in the majority. Essentially sloosh wouldn't have lied because his plan hinges on being in the minority, and therefore MZ has no way to avoid being in the majority. I am fine with this; gonzaw tried to sway my opinion on sloosh, but this time, I think I see things clearly. And if it's true about the illegal votes, if I'm in the minority this is a town victory. Woot.
After all, using the rule of Katina bashing, MZ Gonzaw = Katina bashers, sloosh =/= Katina basher.
|
No, I'm not sure yet MZ, and am still waiting for a response from Protact on that no-voting thing.
If I can no-vote, then I'll obviously do that.
If I can't, then I'll rethink things again in the next phase.
|
My vote is cast. I do not lie. I have anticipated the ending. I am wondering who else has. what does this mean?
I'm meeting up with my sister at her uni for a while, will not be back until after deadline. GL godspeed
|
Now that I think about it, it almost doesn't matter whether I think sloosh or MZ is scum.
I'm guessing you haven't sent in your vote yet MZ? This is pretty much in your hands. If you vote Yes, then sloosh will null vote and he will remain, and if you vote No, I will null vote and I will remain (assuming null votes are allowed, which they probably are). Whoever you think is town, you should vote opposite to you; the game is in your hands.
|
? Game over? I'm on phone
|
I'll read through the stuff later, still out. But yes, I slipped hard concerning sandroba, but only chaoser really noticed.
About the d2 plan; gonzaw you may have come up with it but I was the one who said we should all vote to be in the ]majority, then telling sandroba to vote opposite. I worked my balls off to protect my team, which may have been dangerous, but scum is all about risk and reward, eh?
Also, we should make a TL mafia games thread; I want to lol/dota with you guys more xpp
I'll make the thread when I get back, if you guys are down; I already have a couple of your that's info :D
|
Comments
Mafia is a game of paradoxes: the more innocent someone appears at first glance, not in a 'hes so townie' way but 'hes probably not mafia,' that's a good indication they are mafia. Similarly, in most cases someone who appears so unbelievably guilty yet isn't giving up is almost always going to be a townie. HOLY CRAP I am so glad to see something like this written down in print. When I play town, I'm often accused and sometimes get votes stacked on me; as scum I rarely do. It's so strange.
Gonzaw.... I regret not contacting you and soft claiming scum to you, as I did to MZ (you probably have 1 KP left, right?). We could've had a joint mafia victory; if we had shot both the remaining townies, we would've been 1-1 with no KP left, and won a joint victory. I asked Protact. A joint victory would've been so beautiful T_T I'm happy that I was able to read you as scum in the end, but still, it could've been different. Gonzaw was really the only uninvited player? O.o wow, great choice hosts. Gonzaw is one of my favorite players to play with these days; whether he's town or scum, it's always a wild ride.
My Team Thanks to my team, sandroba and Palmar. Though sandroba got outted hella early and Palmar couldn't keep up his act for too long, they set me up pretty well for a strong endgame scenario. Since they both have big repuations as scumhunters as opposed to me, I was more easily able to slip by and insert myself in circles.
We didn't plan NEARLY as much as Yokoya, leading to a few mishaps (3 stacked votes on Yes, Palmar dying), but we were cohesive, fulfilled our pre-determined roles, and they both gave me solid advice when I asked for it. I worked hard at keeping sandroba alive, though it was due to dumb luck that he was able to live on a few of the times. His secret alliance helped us inordinately, as it's now clear that it's because of that interaction that gonzaw was off my trail for ages. Palmar successfully distracted town D1, and somehow swayed things D3/4 in his favor despite the fact that he should've been scrutinized to shit by then. I thank them for our victory.
Apologies Apologies to Cephiro and the hosts for saying the things I did. For a while around then, I had been dealing with personal problems (along with the looming threat of finals), so, being high strung as it is, I overreacted to things that I shouldn't have. I do respect you as a player Cephiro and I bet you're a fine dude too, so I hope we'll be able to play more games together where A. I'm not scum against you and B. I don't act like a dick.
Also, apologies to Ace when I said he was being a scummy troll. I just said what I did so that I wouldn't have to regard your death much when we shot you :D
Shout-outs Credit to Katina for sort of catching me D1. I gained a lot of respect for Katina this game, as TBH I had always found Katina to be insightful, but not nearly vindictive enough. This game, she was pretty accurate in some of her reads, and if she was able to form stronger alliances later on after Foolishness died, she could've helped town to victory.
Credit to the Yokoya team for some INSANE plans. Chaoser also saw me as scum, but luckily for me, he and BC were under more scrutiny at the time. I already said some words on gonzaw, more so in PMs; this is a guy who will go all out as scum or as town. Watch out for him, he'll be big.
Credit to Foolishness for strong reads as usual, catching chaoser/BC fairly early. There was a reason that he had to be shot immediately after.
My Play My game obviously had holes in it, but my biggest improvement was in my PM game. WBG can attest to this; in the very previous game I had (Space Station Mafia), I was hesitant to provide reads, slipped information, and was scummy as shit in PM land. This game, I pushed plans, made alliances, and forged trust through PMs. This was one of the sole reasons that WBG that I was town, and I'm happy that I was able to make such a shift. I put a LOT of time into my PMs, making sure to not slip egregiously, and subtly trying to find ways to keep my mates alive while killing others.
+ Show Spoiler [PMs with VE] +I don't know if anyone noticed, but I PM'd VE right before he died to ask him if he "truly thought sandroba was scum". I did this for 2 reasons: 1. I could use his logic as a reason for me to support sandroba later on, and 2. I wanted to ensure VE would put votes on Sandroba. VE had hinted that he thought sandroba was town; by me talking to VE about this, VE started to see me as scum. Therefore, I hoped that my skepticism of his sandroba read would in-fact lead him to saving him for me. VE was correct in noticing that my PMs to him were a tad scummy, but he didn't realize that that was my intent + Show Spoiler [Mr. Wiggles gambit] +The reason why I did the desparation blitz on Wiggles was two fold. One, I had called Wiggles town for a long time, so just letting him die like a dingus would've been both rude and uncharacteristic. Second, it's a common thing I do as town; I did it both in Surprisingly Normal VII, and in TL Mafia LI, to incorrect ends.
In SNMM VII, I changed my mind rapidly and swapped the vote to Mattchew, causing town to lose the game. In TL LI, I rapidly changed my mind to try and save VE, even though he was actually scum. I figured it was a good move because 1. it's something I do, and 2. if I'm wrong, then it's fine; we proceed to lynch Wiggles and I go "shit guys, I'm so bad at town LOL", and if I'm right, then I say "SEEEE!! HE WAS TOWN". Win/Win
My reads were mediocre. I recognized BC and Chaoser as scum, but that was pretty much after they had been prodded out by more knowledgeable townies than myself. I genuinely thought Sheth, then Cephiro were scum. In late game though, I am pretty proud of my gonzaw read. I didn't quite recognize the chaoser connection, but I noticed that 1. he flip flopped on sloosh with a really bad case (read: illogical) 2. trusted me pretty quickly, when he knows that I can play a dangerous scum game and 3. pushed forth a quick kill plan. It wasn't much, but it was enough for me to have the confidence to shoot him.
In a lot of ways, my biggest strength as a mafia player is my ability to talk the talk. I rarely rely on gambits or lies in my play, which does mean I have less options than a player like gonzaw or perhaps BC, but I always rely on solid, solid logic; I think that is why I don't get figured out as scum often, because I make focused, logical cases that I could easily do as a townie. However, there are always little discrepancies that I'm trying to stamp out with difficulty; in this game, it was quite clearly my link to sandroba. What I need to improve on is to be able to walk the walk; my reads are really, really bad, to be frank, whether I'm trying to find scum or snipe blues. It helps my scum play because I'm used to being wrong on lynches, but damn, I wish I could make reads like you guys.
MUCH THANKS to Ver and Incognito for keeping up with us for 9 long days. The set up was great and I had a blast playing. Hope to be playing in more Protactinium Productions in the future ^^
-ET
|
Uh, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the sandro outting palmar thing. My team pretty much acted like three lone rangers who met up at the pub during the night time to discuss stuff. Therefore I don't fully know what sandroba did in PMs, or what his intent was. What do you mean that "palmar outting sandroba" means you thought I was confirmed town?
Haha gonzaw, that is actually the exact reason why I didn't just claim scum directly through thread or PM; I feared being backstabbed. However, considering our relationship from previous games and since you and I had been controlling the game since D3ish, I thought you would welcome a joint victory. You were the only player of the other 2 that I would've trusted to not backstab me.
Unfortunately, I didn't fully think things through; I could've soft claimed to you (1 kp left, or 1 of 3 kp left or something like that), but since I had already done that to MZ I didn't feel like risking it again. I shot you because 1. I though you were scum and knew that if you shot, I had to shoot or I'd be disadvantaged no matter what (you would dictate the next day). and 2. You were starting to call me scum. I knew that if I shot you, that sloosh was on my side, so I could win in a 2-1 scenario easily.
|
Hrmph. Sandroba probably remembers this more vividly than I do, but I think our thought process was:
1. Not sure if prplhz lying. Sure he was supporting Palmar hard, but you can never be too careful. More vote for Palmar = thumbs up 2. I think sandroba wanted to gain chaoser's trust? So doing a vote trade was a good way of doing that, and Palmar was the only one who needed that. 3. we also humored the idea of suddenly betraying chaoser and letting chaoser/wiggles get double killed. we weren't able to pull this off, but we needed more votes on Palmar at least. 4. we didn't think it mattered if he knew it was Palmar, since we thought the remaining scum team was Cephiro and Chaoser, both people with 0 town cred.
Edit: The reason why I did the desparation blitz on Wiggles was two fold. One, I had called Wiggles town for a long time, so just letting him die like a dingus would've been both rude and uncharacteristic. Second, it's a common thing I do as town; I did it both in Surprisingly Normal VII, and in TL Mafia LI, to incorrect ends.
In SNMM VII, I changed my mind rapidly and swapped the vote to Mattchew, causing town to lose the game. In TL LI, I rapidly changed my mind to try and save VE, even though he was actually scum. I figured it was a good move because 1. it's something I do, and 2. if I'm wrong, then it's fine; we proceed to lynch Wiggles and I go "shit guys, I'm so bad at town LOL", and if I'm right, then I say "SEEEE!! HE WAS TOWN". Win/Win
Any thoughts/comments on my analysis/play is welcomed ^^
|
LMAO, how could I have planned something like that man? We thought that the remaining scum were Cephiro and Chaoser. Like I said, I'm not the gambit man... though I might become inspired by your play :p And we just got "lucky" on the 3vote that one day; it was an accident.
If I had to name one criticism about you, it's that you think way too convoluted-ly sometimes XD
In actuality though, you had a solid game and it was with a few hints of luck and some endgame shenanigans that you weren't able to win.
Keep it in mind though; next time we end up in a dual faction game, if you think we're both scum, let's go for the joint win > : )
And dude, talking through edits is so confusing LOL. Slow it down bro.
|
Yeah Katina was on me in the early game, but luckily attention was diverted away. If she gains a bit more of that Palmar-asshole edge, she'll be great ^^ also, LOL at that pants-on-head pic.
Everyone thought sandro was scum so w.e LOL
Gonzaw, why didn't you try and work with me when it was 2-1-1? The fact that MZ and sloosh talked things over with me showed me that they were trying to find the last townie, but when you suddenly thought I was scum, it scared me and caused me to re-analyze you.
My pms to you three that night were
MZ: "why you want a draw? you probably have 1 KP left (soft claim, only scum team would proabably recognize). why not go for win?" sloosh: "did Katina tell you that she planned to save you? were you in Pm contacts with her?" Gonzaw: "...... you scum? you trusted me way too fast"
I was slightly apprehensive to all of you, but only gonzaw bit back :p
|
Hrm, I see it. In that regard, I'm glad I attacked you, and PM'd MZ early to posture myself. To answer your earlier question, I had inklings that you could be scum as early as D4, but they were completely random musings ("if gonzaw was scum, this game is going to be tough as hell; he's been coming up with all the plans"). I actually examined you when you came up with that plan (trying to convince me sloosh = scum), and was convinced by the 2-1-1 stage.
I really need to read Liar Game manga sometime ><
Is Kavdragon no longer active around here? That TL steam thread isn't updated anymore
|
Hrm, but the most likely scenario would've been us both splitting votes, resulting in 2-2 until forever. which would mean 3 way draw. I didn't want town to have a draw, just as much as you said you didn't think harimoto deserved the win :p
I'll play the "I'm asleep" card and see what happens though. LMAO
surely, the scum player's most powerful tool
I also find it funny how chaoser stuck around to chip in advice. Sandroba fulfilled a similar role for me, through skype <3
|
The roles/actions doc is on private, could you make it public please? It would make clear to everyone else which family shot who.
|
That linked shot engineered by you two was a pretty good idea, now that I think about it. WBG and syllo were on the verge of making some good breakthroughs, but we shot them down while they were in a position that most benefitted us (syllo thinks palmar is town, WBG thinks I'm town for the most part).
I think that people think that the town played badly, but overall I think the game was evenly matched. Town correctly figured 4 of the scum (Palmar, Sandroba, chaoser, BC) in a timely manner, leading to the murdering of the few town leaders. The fact that the town was denied several effective scumhunters since they were red, while the 2 "newbie" scum (myself and gonzaw) are decently experienced in scum play, meant that the town had a large obstacle they had to hurdle over.
I forgot to mention that I LOVEEEEE the multiple faction play; it meant that I legitimately had to try and read people, allowed for interesting alliances, and meant that proactive play was strongly rewarded. I'm curious to see how I'd react to it from a townie perspective; I'll be sure to autosign up for any multi faction games.
|
That is the sign of a well balanced game.
|
On May 26 2012 03:04 Radfield wrote: I got an award!!!! High Five!
So... no one else thought that it was hilarious that the final town circle (me/gonzaw/MZ) had a representative from each different faction? A really interesting turn of events.
|
after you died, myself, MZ, and gonzaw PM'd a LOT. Every vote cycle was controlled by us in some way, notwithstanding mavericks. It grew from the initial gonzaw/wbg/katina/foolishness/ET agreement D2; when we killed off the rest of you, gonzaw+me were the only "trustworthy" ones left.
I grew more inactive around D5-7 due to finals, which should've keyed off gonzaw, but him being scum + sloosh shenanigans meant he was off my trail.
|
|
|
|
|
|