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Liar Game Mini Mafia - Page 4

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 21 2012 17:13 GMT
#1620
From: Katina [ 191 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: day plan
Date: 5/22/12 01:21
Do you find it likely there are no more night kills? Because I don't. And if a mafia has a night kill it's gonzaw. His plan hinges on a possible stalemate scenario. No townie is going to settle for a draw like that. Something's wrong.

Hey check it out guys, I found a letter of resignation!
My gosh what a treasure trove of nervousness.

In her eyes I should be the other townie right? She thinks Mr. Wiggles is scum, and therefore 1 scum in the trio.
I would surmise that she would think gonzaw is town because he gets shot. But that assumes that for some reason 1 mafia family would gain KP (and not the other). Reaching for straws now.

In the next breath she calls his plan something that "no townie" would settle for (?). What is this I don't even?
She is calling gonzaw mafia or what? Something is wrong but she isn't pointing out what exactly?

And I'm the townie who has agreed with the plan, right? So she is trying to cast suspicions on (I'm not sure who exactly she is even pointing fingers at) with the same reason that would make me not townie?

This combined with her weak response to gonzaw's lambaste (totally felt like a Pheonix Wright grilling) is good enough for me. She is the last scum. The case is probably
Katina is Yokoya. Mr. Wiggles is Harimoto.

That makes me the cool townie who was slaughtered among the suspects took one for the team.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bs0NWmIZ-8#t=01m28s

Here is a video demonstration of the situation


And on that note, I'm not gonna bother suspecting MZ or ET on paranoia anymore.
And if I'm wrong then I'm sure the trio can clear it up better than I could hope to, and we can all have a good laugh at the end.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 22 2012 03:46 GMT
#1630
Right. Let's do this. Don't argue with scum, it doesn't work. Sending in my votes.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 23 2012 00:37 GMT
#1639
It's cool ET - we win as a team and its fine if I die in the process (albeit in a manner far different from what I'm used to, which is getting shot D1). I'll be here tomorrow to (hopefully) celebrate our hard earned victory, or if not to type in the good old GG if scum decide to prolong the game even more.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 23 2012 18:47 GMT
#1658
Bahaha did not see this one coming. Wow, katina really pulling through for me. Sorry I thought you were scum. But I thought Mr. Wiggles was scum too, so now I'm really .... woah. Hahaha.

I guess my initial reservations of the trio weren't unfounded. Just didn't expect two members in it.

And gonzaw you just called me scum?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 23 2012 18:52 GMT
#1659
On May 23 2012 16:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Greetings fellow players.

It is mathematically impossible for town to win. Even if scum doesn't have any KP, tomorrow will be a 2v2 situation. The two final scum can claim (or perhaps they already are in contact) and force the town into an unwinnable situation.

Here's how. Both scum simply vote opposite each other, it'll only work once but they may get lucky and have both townies vote the same way. In this case there will be 3 in the majority. In this case both townies are dead along with one scum, leaving the other team victorious.

However, if it doesn't work the first time then the game will be caught in a perpetual round A scenario with the two townies and the two scum voting opposite of each other.

This is what's going to happen with no night kills. If there are night kills then scum can just have a draw between themselves by claiming now and coordinating hits.

I again ask that the night be sped up, if the hosts aren't declaring a draw now that makes me think that scum has KP left.

Again, town can't win without one of the scum teams quitting which in my book is an unwinnable situation.

Sure it's possible. Actually, this is freakishly like the actual liar game situation. And here is how it goes.
I am voting yes to whatever the question will be. Therefore, you are all auto prisoner scenario. And I will continue to vote yes forever. And then its a draw ... yea Meapak is right. Strange - even if you were able to correctly deduce the last scum members you are not guaranteed a win, or even a draw.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 23 2012 19:14 GMT
#1660
Wait I figured out how we can win. There won't be night KP. It's just a matter of finding the last townie. Then we win.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 24 2012 17:38 GMT
#1669
Well, can't say I anticipated either the existence of KP nor the family flip. Well done katina, and well done gonzaw.

[image loading]
What I have voted


Here's the breakdown. I have voted no. There is one scum and one town. Here are the possible scenarios.

You all vote no with me. This is an optimal situation, however we should not aim for this. Town forfeits the win if both townies vote the same and end up in 2-1 split (ends up in a draw 1-1 unless there is more KP / special endgame scenario in which case scum win)

One of you vote no and the other votes yes. Now I've covered what happens if scum get into minority. If the other townie gets into minority then they have the choice who to save. I trust said townie to make the right choice (i.e. put 5 on me and we win game).

Both of you vote yes. Then I let both of you die with 0 votes and town victory. That is the safe way where I am least susceptible to manipulation/paranoia.

Thus if you truly believe I'm town, then voting yes (opposite to me) will be the safest course of action.
If the townie trusts me he will vote opposite me. Scum will end up in majority no matter what.
If I am majority: Everyone votes illegally -> me and scum die -> we win
If I am minority: Everyone votes illegally -> both of you die -> we win

If you think I am the scum, then you have to split 1-1 to get me into the majority, plain and simple. If you trust other guy enough to do that, then I suppose you can fight over who gets to be opposite to me (i.e. minority). If your town read and thus level of trust is that strong then well played scum gg. But I doubt that such a strong read exists, especially with your tattered trio flipping 1 scum already.

Why you can trust the plan:
- I have no manipulation in what the third player will vote. Whether I am in majority or minority is at their discretion. In fact, if the townie votes opposite me he too can just let me die, for if scum hits minority we lost already anyways. Therefore we as town will win.
- I am town. Look at my filter. If I am pulling strings in the background with the other guy thinking that you are scum, you would have already lost, and therefore you can eliminate that thought.

So do the right thing. Vote Yes, and we can finally win this.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 24 2012 19:12 GMT
#1671
Alea iacta est.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 24 2012 22:09 GMT
#1674
Town in minority is insta win for towns. No need to cast saving votes, just let both people die, have a good laugh afterwards.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 24 2012 22:49 GMT
#1680
My vote is cast. I do not lie. I have anticipated the ending. I am wondering who else has.

Hahaha, I dunno I just really got into this serious liar game mood I suppose. But yes. I have casted my vote a long time ago and I really do wonder what tonight's results will be. I'll see you guys tomorrow.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 25 2012 15:38 GMT
#1755
Ahhhh!!! Should have pushed ET harder!!!

I thought one of MZ or ET was scum since the formation, (props to gonzaw for deceiving me again >.>) and only with Wiggle & katina's flip did I realize gonzaw was scum, and that my earlier suspicions of one of them being scum weren't unfounded. I concluded that MZ was the final town. (its funny as gonzaw defended you as town on SoaF meta but I knew from that clash in SMMVII that you were much much more aggressive as town).

I tried deceiving ET with PMs to go for the 2-1-1 victory, but the unexpected KP made the situation quite different, putting us at 2-1. I hoped that MZ would be able to deduce my towniness from his own readings (I think I overestimated how townish I looked) and that PMing him will induce paranoia and so it was best to leave him alone.

I guess I fooled ET? But ET fooled MZ so props to him. I was half thinking that MZ was playing a trick on ET to get some response and thus a better read on him but I guess not.

Here are the final PMs.
+ Show Spoiler [PM with Meapak] +

To: Meapak_Ziphh [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: liar game - we can still win
Date: 5/24/12 05:02
First, my reads: http://i.imgur.com/Q2oh3.png

If you pull up each person's filter, you will notice them supporting each other / identify when the busses start happening. For instance, gonzaw's filter will show him soft defending sandroba early on in the game, and echelon's filter will show the same for chaoser.

Behavioral analysis puts you as final town as well. Katina pushed gonzaw hard - I wasn't notified that I would be saved but I was, and her final wish was go for gonzaw.

My PMs indicate that Echelon has been unreasonably suspecting (showing some weird clarvoyance) into the possibility of this situation - when he shared reads he suspected one of the trio well before the final axe.

The thread indicates that out of the three responses that yours is the most genuine. You care about town. That is what I see.

How can I prove my towiness? Well I'm not sure I can prove that behavourally, but voting analysis supports me because if I was yokoya (red) I would have voted with chaoser twice (unlikely since he was not under scrutiny till D4 got going and all four of us voted with him), and if I was harimoto (orange) it is unlikely due to my hard going after palmar. But my towniness is something I can't really prove. Well, I suppose by process of elimination I can prove that I must be the last townie.


Anyways, here is how we win (possibly)
We split votes 1-1. We dupe scum via PMs and whatnot, and hope they land in majority (i.e. vote 2-0). Then we end up 3-1 with one of us in the majority, one in minority.

Then, we win by dumping 5 votes onto each other.
Scum can either:
vote 5 each other in which case all three die and the townie in minority wins
vote not 5 each other in which case both die and town wins
1 of them votes 5, the other doesn't and thus 1 scum dies in which we split 1-1 and scum lands majority and dies.

If they team up then yes it will be perpetual draw. But they don't know who the other scum is. This is the liar game - where we work up false visages, trick them into voting into majority and win. You are right in that the first cycle after this will determine whether we win or we draw.

Gonzaw aint gonna listen to me. ET I might be able to deceive, but who knows what correspondence has been occuring between the two.

I will begin my PMs with ET now. I give you my word that I am town, and I think you are last town.
I will be treating you as such. There is no guarantee that I am myself duping you as I will be duping ET, since I could be elaborate scum, but I think you would be giving me too much credit to call it excellent scum play.


+ Show Spoiler [PM with ET] +

To: EchelonTee [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: liar
Date: 5/24/12 05:09
Alright, didn't tell you the full story because I was trying to figure out which one of you are the last town.
Katina did not tell me anything, but her last PM told me her wishes to lynch gonzaw. Seeing her flip town and rereading her statements, as well as gonzaw's unnecessary grilling of her (why would you do that to scum?) I find myself in agreement with that sentiment.

I know earlier when you shared your reads you said that if it was between me and gonzaw I would get the axe - hopefully a re-read of the situation will change your mind.

As for Meapak, I've already expressed my concerns with you before this whole fiasco. I really thought Wiggles at least would flip, but with the two town flips it seems that my earlier suspicions were not unfounded.

In the least, there is still a way we can win despite what people are saying in thread.

We split votes 1-1. We dupe scum via PMs and whatnot, and hope they land in majority (i.e. vote 2-0). Then we end up 3-1 with one of us in the majority, one in minority.

Then, we win by dumping 5 votes onto each other.
Scum can either:
vote 5 each other in which case all three die and the townie in minority wins
vote not 5 each other in which case both die and town wins
1 of them votes 5, the other doesn't and thus 1 scum dies in which we split 1-1 and scum lands majority and dies.

If they team up then yes it will be perpetual draw. But they don't know who the other scum is. This is the liar game - where we work up false visages, trick them into voting into majority and win.

By now if you haven't figured it out I think you are last town.

Gonzaw has closed off his ears to me, and right now I'm in the process of PMing Meapak. I'll keep you updated if I get any responses. If you trust me, I'd advise you to do the same (but don't give away that we have hidden agenda, still express some suspicions of me or whatnot).
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 25 2012 15:56 GMT
#1758
I had him and you pegged as mafia. It wasn't turning on him since we were never of the same alignment.
I guess I got caught up in making convoluted plans, and should have just pushed my read hard in the thread, but I felt like his "town read" on me was something I could manipulate.
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