Liar Game Mini Mafia - Page 3

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 10 2012 01:00 GMT

#1317

It probably sounds lame, but I forgot to. I never ended up PMing Chaoser either. I haven't been pressuring people in PMs this game so much as just discussing the game and reads with them, so that plays into it. I think the only person I tried to pressure in PMs was Sheth, and it didn't end up amounting to much.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 10 2012 05:04 GMT

#1340

Right now there's 6 town and 5 scum. I'm a mislynch, so I propose we kill Palmar today, since I feel best about him being scum at this point.

I don't think we can multi-lynch effectively right now. We have people who are supposed to get lynched as soon as they hit the majority, so they can screw with a multi-lynch without any fear, essentially. Also, we're at the point where we can't unnecessarily kill any townies, or we lose control of the lynch more than we already have.

It's getting to the point where scum will have to shoot the other scum team, or they'll risk losing in a king-maker scenario where town gets to pick who wins, which I'm sure would be unsatisfactory, or to pure numbers of the other team if too much KP hits the town or town mislynches too many at once and gets their numbers wiped out. So, they should keep that in mind when they send in kills tonight.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 10 2012 15:46 GMT

#1354

On May 10 2012 23:17 prplhz wrote:
I'm thinking that the only feasible lynches today are chaoser and Mr. Wiggles.

If you lynch me you lose, since I have a 100% chance of flipping town. What do you think of Palmar?

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 10 2012 18:34 GMT

#1360

On May 11 2012 01:36 slOosh wrote:
1st - who the heck is companion cube?

2nd

Show nested quote +

Mr. Wiggles is fearmongering. Its 6 town, 3 scum and 2 scum. He proposes that we kill Palmar but still hasn't provided any case / reasoning at all. At all. He is considered a serious lynch candidate but is still using his time to ask other's for their opinions rather than convincing people that Palmar is scum.

And the last line - looks seriously like scum team suggesting something to the other scum team. Why would town make a suggestion for scum team and think they would listen? Town agenda conflicts with scum agenda. Most likely scum teams aligning agenda temporarily. Also betrays some understanding of the KP system. It was 1 shot D1, D2 and 2 shots D3. Straight up he assumes 2KP again.

I'm not fear mongering at all. If it gets to the point of something like 3 town, 3 scum, 2 scum, do you really think town will win? At best we'll get to be a kingmaker for which scum team wins. We can't mislynch anymore. That's a fact. If that scares you, well good, because it should. You shouldn't even be considering a mislynch as a viable option at this point as town. If you are, you're just not thinking about it.

I'm going to tell you why Palmar is scum, but I highly doubt it will have any impact on the game. I can tell your little circle has already closed their minds off to discussion, because I made a response to Meapak's case, telling you why it was both wrong and bad. After that, there has been zero, 0!, response to what I said. No discussion at all. That tells me that you guys are just deciding what you want to do in private and are not interested in trying to actually discuss things or potentially changing your opinion. You're just going to do whatever you set your mind on already, and the town is going to lose.

Palmar is scum, because of the way the game has played out, and his general attitude and play through it. To see this, ask, "What has Palmar accomplished throughout the game?". On day 1, he came out strongly with his plan, after he managed to gain Syllogism's trust. His plan though, put all of the power into his own hands. People opposed this, and the plan didn't end up being changed or modified, it just got dropped on subsequent days. Since then, Palmar has been riding the position of authority that being in the WBG/Syllo/Palmar trio had given him, but hasn't been doing much else. It was syllogism who was very active in the thread, and doing the most public scumhunting, and it was WBG who was organizing all the voting in order to get things done. So, WBG and Syllo were organizing the town and making sure that we actually acoomplished what we set out to do, but how did Palmar fit into this? From my perspective, he didn't. He gained Syllo's trust enough on Day 1 for him to get a town read on him, and has just been riding that for the rest of the game. Of the three, it looks like he was the one who was doing the least, or from my perspective, nothing at all.

As well, I know that at least WBG was suspicious of Palmar last night, if not Syllo as well. WBG revealed this to me, here:
+ Show Spoiler +

From: wherebugsgo [ 5534 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: Liar Game
Date: 5/9/12 11:31
yeah syllo and I have been a bit unsure on Palmar given that he hasn't done very much all game. But it's hard to fit him with any actual scumteam. I suppose we'll have to wait and see but yes, out of the minority group on d1 I'd say palmar fits the bill more than most to be scum.

Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
Ok, that makes more sense, then.

What do you think of Palmar? Personally, if only one between you three were scum, I'd probably say it were him, unless he's doing a lot more in private than I know of. It seems like Syllo got an initial town read on him, and now he hasn't been doing as much? Does that sound right? I'm pretty sure you're town, and like Syllo more than Palmar.

Hide nested quote -
Original Message From wherebugsgo:
I would've certainly hit foolishness too if I were scum. I was closer to him than I was to syllo/Palmar anyway (and fairly more sure of him being town up to him not responding for a good 24ish hours)

Anyway I think he was probably shot because he's Foolishness and he scares scum. He was also making quite a bit of sense as usual. He was also universally considered town (think about it; the only person who dared call him scum publicly while he was alive was BC) for a very long time.

As my read (and syllo's) on him in private was changing it didn't affect the shot, which boded well in a certain way.

Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
Ok, thanks. I was wondering if prplhz made a medic save or something on N1 and claimed it, because all I knew is it was out of the thread. I find it harder to figure out what's happening, because I have no clue how the KP works, and at least the N2 kill doesn't make much sense compared to what I think I would do as scum.

Why do you think Foolishness was hit, instead of someone in the group of You/Syllo/Palmar?

Original Message From wherebugsgo:
Hmm, I thought I answered it. W/e, here it is anyway:

For prplhz: I've sheeped syllo's read and accepted that in order for him to be scum at least one of those players needs to flip town first. Syllo thinks prpl is town based on how he acted when it came to his votes d1; he asked about where to put them and did so according to syllo's instructions despite not even understanding the rules fully. Syllo thinks that in such a situation he would simply ask his team how to vote and whom. I tend to agree, though I am less convinced than he is.

I don't think prplhz is an issue until we reach such a juncture where he basically has to be scum.

As for sloosh, I am still suspicious of him and for me those suspicions never disappeared. If you noticed, I didn't put a vote on him yesterday (I put 2 on syllo or something like that, don't recall now) he still hasnt come forth with any sort of case in thread and his responses to me in PMs for that still do not seem to impress me. He's not been proactive at all when it comes to the game, not something I'd expect from him as town.

He used the excuse "it's my first PM game, idk what to do"

Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
I asked:

"Can you tell me why prplhz is considered "confirmed" town by syllo, or why all suspicion of sloosh seemed to disappear overnight?"

I'm curious about that, since thinking or knowing they're town reduces the pool of players to look at.

Original Message From wherebugsgo:
Sorry, which PM?

I had a town read based on comparing his filter to what I've seen in LI and several games where he's rolled scum. He also has put plenty of effort forward in PMs (particularly d2) with me in terms of talking out scumreads and whatnot.

As he is decently open in PMs (he's PMed me to start with, for example) and as just recently in PMs he wasn't comfortable PMing as scum I think for now it's safe to call him town.

The other problem I have though right now is: until chaoser/Cephiro/sandro die and flip it's hard to know what to do exactly or who to look at specifically. It's unfortunate, but we are heldup still by that I think.

Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
Hey, are you going to answer my PM?

Also, what do you think of EchelonTee? It seems like most of what he's doing is coming in after most people have decided on who to lynch and making a big unnecessary "case" on them. After the third time, it's looking like an empty contribution to me. Thoughts?

So, last night's hits make a lot of sense in this framework. One, or both, of WBG and Syllo were beginning to question Palmar, and they either brought it up to him himself, or leaked it to someone on his scum team. As well, people were really questioning why no shots went into their trio, which implied that there was scum influence there. So, he decided to shoot whoever was coming on more strongly, and to make it look better for him. Unfortunately, someone else shot the other one, so it revealed him pretty brusquely. Also note how since Meapak "took over", he hasn't been trying to even live at all. He's probably just hoping that you'll kill myself or Chaoser, and he gets another try at getting into the minority. He's clammed up, because he doesn't want to give you any extra information, just like Sandroba's been since Day 1. As town, do you really think he would let someone else become ringmaster of "his" circus? Look at how he acted on Day 1 where he put up a facade of wanting to be the town leader, and how he responded to people who questioned his authority. Now contrast that to how he's acting now. Why do you think he's just taking Meapak taking control over him lying down? It's because he's scum.

Next, your logic is flawed if you really believe it, because why would scum make a suggestion to scum and think they would listen? Their agendas conflict even more at this point. Also, as scum, why in the hell would I be asking the other scum team to shoot at me? Are you serious? That's a temporary alignment? I don't even think you're reading what I'm posting, or you're just being incredibly dense about it, or you're just scum and don't care about looking stupid.

I'm telling scum that the best plan for scum right now is to stop aiming at the town. This helps the town, but it also helps the scum, especially the one with only two people which gives them incentive to do it. If I were a scum player, I think it would be pretty shitty to have the game decided by some terrible leftover townies put into a kingmaker position, especially if you have Cephiro on your team, because I don't think town would choose to let him win if they had the choice after how he's acted. As the numbers get smaller, the influence of each player and their votes becomes correspondingly larger. There's three (or more) parties, so kingmaker situations are possible, and the way this is going, probable. As well, if too much stray KP hits town, or scum keep trying for the mislynches, then it could be that one team gets enough of a numbers advantage they just win. The best thing for scum is to reduce numbers while keeping the ratios in their favour. Just eliminating all the town means one of them loses based on numbers. Letting it go into a 3 way numbers tie means town gets to pick who they want to win. So, they need to get rid of, or at least whittle down, the opposing scum team. It's their best option right now. If they think about the possible end-game scenarios, they should come to the same conclusion, it's simple math.

Also, how do you get that I have extra knowledge about the KP from my post? If you've actually been reading what I've been writing, then you'll know that I've always assumed two KP with some sort of medic intervention, or vets, or a BP third party. It's right here in the thread. You've just revealed yourself as scum grasping for additional ways to get people to lynch me, or you're just not reading the thread at all.

On May 11 2012 01:54 slOosh wrote:
Why is Mr. Wiggles town?

I think a better question, is "Why is Mr. Wiggles scum?". No one seems to be keen on discussing this, and meapak's case is incorrect and not very good.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 10 2012 19:45 GMT

#1364

On May 11 2012 04:00 gonzaw wrote:
Wiggles, how do you come from:

1)Being neutral about the lynch, and just asking some things about Meapak

To:

2)Wishy washy stance on Palmar

Show nested quote +

Then to:

3)Being fully convinced Palmar is scum and making a huge case against him?

Why is it that only now, when you are in danger of dying, that you actually make a case and take a strong stance on someone? It didn't take you too long to convince yourself that Palmar is scum and make a case against him, so why couldn't you do it before?

First, I didn't make posts about the lynch, because we didn't have the majority yet. There's no point in making a case on Palmar if he's not going to be able to get lynched. The post you linked to, is my first post after the majority is revealed, where I could actually choose someone who's able to be lynched. So, I'm not being neutral about the lynch, I'm just waiting to know who I can lynch. If you actually read my last post, I was suspicious of Palmar last night phase already, so it isn't like this is new.

Next, how is saying "I feel best about him being scum at this point." and that we should kill him a wishy-washy stance? It seems like basic reading comprehension, but please tell me how you think saying that is "wishy-washy"? "I feel best about" means that he's my strongest scum-read for lynch candidates, and saying we should kill him, means exactly that.

So, there's no leap between saying that and my last post, unless you're not paying any attention to what's going on. That post says I think Palmar is scum and I want to lynch him, and my last post gives my reasons.

On day 1, I wanted to lynch VE, I did so. On Day 2, I wanted to lynch BC, and did so, and on Day 3 I wanted to kill Sheth, and did so as well. I'm not sure how helping kill who I want dead is not taking a strong stance. My votes make my stance clear, and I also show it in thread for Day 1 and 3, if not as much on Day 2 because I didn't post a lot then while I was busy. The rest of it's in PMs if you need me to dig them up.

Multi-lynches haven't worked, so why am I going to bring up cases on people when they aren't the ones I want to lynch yet? You call me out for not making a case on earlier days, but I didn't want to lynch someone else on earlier days, so there was no point in trying to make a push for it. Instead of asking why I didn't, why don't you explain why I should have? I'm making a case now, because I want Palmar to die, and need to get more people behind it. There are no other cases, except for on me, and people all saying Chaoser is scum without a case. So, if I want something to happen, I need to get support because it isn't there yet, and I need to do it myself, because nobody else seems to want to.

If you can't see that I'm town, or at least that Palmar is scum, you're blind and we're going to lose. This is directed to whichever townies are actually left and still reading.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 10 2012 21:11 GMT

#1376

On May 11 2012 05:09 prplhz wrote:
We kinda need to agree on something here. I'm planning on trying to keep Palmar alive so you're going to have a problem if you want to kill him.

Why do you want to keep Palmar alive? There's no mention of him in your filter, so where did this come from?

On May 11 2012 05:06 EchelonTee wrote:
Wiggles, your opinion on chaoser?

Palmar, your opinion on Wiggles?

I'm not seeing it as strongly as everyone else is and think Palmar is a better lynch, and that's why I'd like it if someone bothered writing up a case on him who thinks he's scum. When I say there's no case, I don't mean that there's no reason to think he's scum, I literally mean there's no case that I can read to see why you think he's scum. If there's something I missed or forgot about that wasn't just from Day 1 or early Day 2, bring it up again so I can see it.

That he hasn't been around recently, I don't like though, because it means that he's not talking now. Maybe he's just lying low to try to avoid the lynch?

On May 11 2012 05:18 EchelonTee wrote:
My final is in 3 hours. I can't spend any more time in thread and will be back ~1 hour before deadline. No matter what, chaoser needs to die today; we can't afford a mislynch.

Why does Chaoser need to die as opposed to Palmar? What's your reasoning?

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 12 2012 22:08 GMT

#1435

Hey, sorry for not being around the last little while, it was my brother's grad, so I was doing that all day long yesterday.

No one's really talking about much, so I'm going to bring up what I wrote about Palmar again, since no one talked about it the first time:

Also, to put another nail in the Sandroba coffin, vote analysis says that he's on BC/Chaoser's team as well.

Player  | Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 |
Chaoser | Yes   | Yes   | Yes   | Yes   |
Bc      | No    | No    |-------|-------|
Sandro  | Yes   | Yes   | No    | No    |

He votes in a block with Chaoser against BC until BC dies, and then he switches to voting against Chaoser. He's the only living player who votes this way.

I'm probably going to vote yes again.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 13 2012 03:06 GMT

#1440

On May 13 2012 07:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Oh, my bad, thought you were talking about Palmar in that instance. I agree that Sandroba looks very much so like their teammate.

Wiggles, what do you think of Cephiro?

I think he's scum right now. What do you think of Palmar?

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 13 2012 22:59 GMT

#1470

Busy doing Mother's Day things, but I'm voting according to the plan. PM me if there's anything quick you'd like me to address.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 14 2012 18:29 GMT

#1488

sandroba, can you do me a favour and shoot Palmar?

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 15 2012 16:32 GMT

#1505

If you want me to vote with your plan, send me a PM detailing it. Otherwise, I'm just going to vote "Yes" again.

Palmar is scum. I'm trying to still figure out who else is on his team.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 15 2012 19:50 GMT

#1508

On May 16 2012 04:07 chaoser wrote:
[image loading]

So is no one going to tell me about this round A plan you've made up, or have you just abandoned it? I'd also like to know if you actually followed any round A plans on the previous two or so days, since WBG/Syllo died, and what they were and if you followed through on them. Who was involved in the discussion? Did people want to vote certain ways? I'd be happy if you shared it.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 17 2012 06:42 GMT

#1543

On May 17 2012 14:54 gonzaw wrote:
You know people, you are allowed to talk and shit.

Post your thoughts on the Palmar flip and our "plan" please.

We may try something similar in a next day, or maybe we won't.
Scum will just have to WIFOM about it every time we post a plan, and try to follow it and have the chance we'll fuck them secretly, or just out themselves by voting to save each other when they weren't actually in danger of dying.

Of course, all of that after we kill sandroba, that's for real this time (if we try to do another "secret" plan he'll fuck it up again, so no way we are letting him live any longer)

The palmar flip wasn't surprising at all. After syllo/WBG flipped, it was painfully obvious he was scum.

I don't think your plan was very good. Sure, we killed Palmar finally, but there was absolutely no discussion on prplhz in the thread. I didn't have a strong feeling that he was scum, and if you had actually bothered to make a case in the thread, I would have said so. I don't like that you're ready to flip people based on your own suspicions and with no discussion, as it can very easily lose us the game if you're wrong.

Why'd you keep your suspicions of prplhz out of the thread?

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 20 2012 00:31 GMT

#1593

So I went back and looked at the voting for fun, and these are my thoughts on it. I'm working under the assumption that scum are only going to triple stack for a specific reason, and not just for fun, as there's too much risk, and not much reward, since after Foolishness died, no one has really brought up vote analysis. So, this is a vote analysis that I'm going to support with behavioural analysis as well.
+ Show Spoiler +

First, vote analysis says that Sloosh is more likely to be town, unless Scum decided to triple vote on day 4 or 6, which seems kind've ballsy for them that late in the game.

So, that implies that on Day 2, Mafia did a triple vote of "No", because the only choices for voting "Yes" against Palmar are me (a townie), and Sloosh (who the voting suggests isn't scum) on that day. Of the people left who voted "No" on Day 2, I'm going to pull out MZ, since I have a decent town read on him.

Of the people left (Gonzaw, ET, Katina), I think Katina is most likely to be scum. It also makes the most sense from the perspective of the triple "No" vote on Day 2, due to Katina pushing in the thread on Day 1 or 2 that scum would never triple vote because it's too risky. However, if this is actually the thought that's in the thread, then it makes a lot of sense to triple vote early on, because it will throw off voting analysis. Obviously the hypothesis that scum will never triple vote is false, since after taking myself out of the people who voted, it's impossible to avoid a triple vote. Either one happened day 2, or one happened later on with Sloosh. So, to me, it makes the most sense that it happened early, on Day 2 in this case, and that's also the day with the highest difference between the two groups besides Day 6, but no one has yet bothered to tell me if you were following a voting plan as a group then or not.

Here's a couple of quotes I found of Katina pushing a 2-1 vote as the only viable scum move.
+ Show Spoiler [Katina talking about a 2-1 split] +

On May 01 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:

Show nested quote +

The mafia team will always be voting in the 2 to 1 method. However since there are two teams its a matter of figuring out where the two mafia are voting. On any given day each majority/minority will have either 2, 3 or 4 members. So for each faction, we need to figure out whether they have 1 or 2 members in the majority. Since mafia needs to save their allies they will always get at least some votes. So by comparing who is voting for who over the course of a few days it should give us some information.

Furthermore it's unlikely that the same 2 Mafia members will be voting together every day most likely they will cycle through X and Y, X and Z, Y and Z, etc. As Ace said, this is a lot simplier than people make it out to be. <3

On May 01 2012 08:20 Katina wrote:

Show nested quote +

There's no reason for Mafia to take that chance. You really think they can decieve people in PM's like that? Have you been deceived in PMs like that? People are flipping coins to decide votes, and I doubt anyone is actually listening to Palmar. Three votes for the same option is to obviously, especially so early where people are extra paranoid. They would try to leave a little of a connection as possible to each other. With that said, there is no reason mafia would take that chance.

Thus we can always expect the 2-1 split. Then it's just a matter of looking at who is voting for whom and matching people up.

In addition, Katina hasn't really done much this whole game. She's tunneled Palmar for a while, but that's pretty much it. The thing about that, though, is she never made a hard push to get him lynched. She kept repeating that he was scum over and over, but that's not going to convince anyone to actually lynch someone unless they're just being dumb. Also, since she started on Day 1 or 2, by the time it realistically gets to a point where people would lynch Palmar, no one's going to take her seriously because anything she says can be written off as just tunneling. So, though she called Palmar scum, it didn't seem like it was meant to actually accomplish something. In addition, it seems like she's been riding the fact Foolishness called her town pretty hard. A lot of people seem hesitant to call her scum because Foolishness had a town read on her, similar to how people acted because Syllo called Palmar town.

From the starting point of Katina being on Palmar's team, that leaves us with ET and Gonzaw. ET fits into the voting pattern by only having the triple vote on Day 2. However, Gonzaw would only fit if scum triple voted on 3 separate days, which I find unlikely. So, that suggests that ET is the last scum with Katina. I've had some reservations about him, but I never thought he was scum so strongly I'd make a case. So, I'd rather flip Katina first and then see how that turns out before going more in-depth on ET, since the read on him is partially a continuation of the voting analysis under the assumption Katina is scum.

In conclusion, looking at the voting suggests to me that Katina and ET are the remaining scum on Palmar's team. This was built on the assumptions that scum will avoid a triple vote later into the game, and never attempt multiple triple votes. If those are incorrect assumptions to make, then players like Sloosh, Gonzaw, and maybe even MZ need to be reconsidered. Posting behaviour also suggests that Katina is scum in this framework. Before proceeding with ET though, Katina should be flipped, or potentially Katina along with Sloosh, though one would very likely flip town and it would be a 1 for 1 trade. I haven't done the math for player numbers for this yet though, so this could be a terrible suggestion if we can't afford to make that trade anymore.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 21 2012 06:19 GMT

#1617

Why do you think EchelonTee is town exactly?

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 21 2012 19:51 GMT

#1623

On May 21 2012 15:32 gonzaw wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why would you ask me that question, and what does this have to do with the plan?
You know, you can comment on it as well.

You also seem to completely ignore sandro's flip and its repercussions. I remember you saying that ET and someone else would both be Harimoto, ONLY because of voting patterns. However I also remember you thinking sandro was Yokoya, so surely your reads would change by now, considering you ONLY used voting patterns to determine them, right?

But well, I think you are scum Wiggles, so it doesn't matter actually matter what you vote.
Although please vote NO to follow the plan so we can end the game earlier.

For people that still ask me "Why do you think ET is town? bla bla bla bla".
ET was part of our plans since Day 4 and has been in the loop ever since. He knew about every plan since then. He knew the plans when chaoser was lynched, the plans when Palmar got lynched and the one where sandroba got lynched.
He never tried to stop those, so unless you say he just bussed all his teammates since Day 4 to win solo or something he's town.

He is clear with his reads ever since the game started as well, and if you want to take meta into account, he seems to care about the game and is not acting to his scum meta at all (for instance, check SoaF).

Now that we are over that, if any of you want to seriously consider MZ or ET as scum, then make a convincing case other than "oh he voted opposite sandroba/chaoser one day".

If not, then you should have no qualms over following this plan.
Even if you still think MZ/ET is scum, then still follow the plan and we'll deal with that once we get to D9.

Why wouldn't I ask, and how is it not related to the plan, when he's one of the people you want to bring to the last three? You obviously think both of him and MZ are town, so if you don't win doing this plan, then you'll have to start to actually think about why you think they're town. Honestly, your circle you've had going on has doesn't exactly have the best record. If you don't count Palmar, you're 1 for 3, out of prplhz, Cephiro, and Chaoser. If you count Palmar, even though your circle originally defended him as town, then you're still only 2 for 4. Add me in when I flip town, and it's even worse. So, to say I don't exactly trust you to make a sound judgement in an endgame scenario is putting it lightly. Even now, you can't figure out anything, and just want to flip everyone at the same time. So, it would be nice if actually explained any of your reads when I ask, instead of going off on some stupid rant because you think you're the towniest town to ever town, when town is only even close to winning since it seems like the scum ran out of fucking bullets.

I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but I'm not the one trying to make decisions for the whole town without giving any reasoning. So, if you want me to follow your plan, give me your reasons for wanting to flip the people you want to flip, instead of being a dick about it.

Also, I never said people would be something ONLY because of voting patterns. Do you even read what I write? I thought Sandroba was on BC's team based on voting patterns, that was wrong though, so it doesn't matter. That wasn't the basis for my read though. I said Katina was scum, using voting patterns as a basis, but it's also supported by how she's acting, which I wrote. I haven't changed that read. The last scum is one of Sloosh/ET, probably, so that's why I'm asking why you think ET is town.

Mr. Wiggles

Canada5894 Posts

May 23 2012 03:38 GMT

#1648

lol gg

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