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I posted the PM convo between chaoser and sandro in the last page.
Basically, sandro claimed Palmar was scum to chaoser to convince chaoser to give Palmar 5 votes.
I thought:
If ET is scum, then he would know prplhz would give Palmar 5 votes, and sandro would surely know that as well. With Palmar at 5 votes, and sandro giving him 1, he would be at 6 votes. That would basically mean he's safe from the lynch, specially if Wiggles/chaoser receive few votes.
Therefore, if ET is scum, there would be no reason for sandro to beg chaoser to give Palmar 5 votes, therefore there would be no reason for sandro to out Palmar as his scumbuddy to chaoser.
sandro outed Palmar as his scumbuddy to chaoser
Reductio ad absurdum: ET is town.
So I basically thought you were like confirmed town because of that, which basically lead me into thinking sloosh was scum.
EDIT: Yeah, but I thought sloosh was scum and maybe he would have stabbed me in the back >_>
Also, I did notice you desperately trying to save Wiggles on Day 4. I thought that if you were scum, then that was obviously intentional to get chaoser to die alone.
sandro would give chaoser 4 votes, but if you convinced me/MZ to give Wiggles 6 votes, he'd be the sole lynch (since you knew prplhz would give Palmar 5 votes).
After I figured that out, I knew that if you were scum, then you basically tricked us into getting chaoser lynched >_>
I wouldn't have trusted you at all if you wanted to convince me to "joint win" if you claimed scum to me, because I knew you were trying to fuck with us since Day 4 >_>
Granted, you didn't think I was scum at that point, you most likely thought it was Cephiro so you thought "Hey, I can fuck up with Cephiro I don't care!" or something 
Also again, I also thought you were town because at one point I was analysing the voting patterns and saw that if you were Harimoto all 3 of you would have voted the same on day 3.
After that I basically said "Nah that's very unlikely, I'll just assume he's town for now"...
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So it wasn't planned then?
Well, at least I'll feel better that you guys didn't trick me since the beginning >_>
EDIT: Hey Cephiro, you told me that you were playing like you did because you had some "plans" or something, but you didn't have any town cred later so you couldn't implement them.
...what were these "plans" of yours? Because...I don't think they were worth the risk of acting like that and basically being the 4th scum from both scumteams >_>
EDIT:
On May 25 2012 17:26 EchelonTee wrote:
we also humored the idea of suddenly betraying chaoser and letting chaoser/wiggles get double killed. we weren't able to pull this off, but we needed more votes on Palmar at least.
Yeah you did >_>
I mean, had you NOT tried to save Wiggles, then Wiggles would have died with 2 votes (Cephiro's 2 votes)
Also, how could you get Wiggles/chaoser double killed if you wanted to give Wiggles 6 votes? >_>
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Wait:
From ET
Gonzaw.... I regret not contacting you and soft claiming scum to you, as I did to MZ (you probably have 1 KP left, right?). We could've had a joint mafia victory; if we had shot both the remaining townies, we would've been 1-1 with no KP left, and won a joint victory
as I did to MZ (you probably have 1 KP left, right?)
*MZ goes and FoSes sloosh, lets ET get into minority*
...wat
lol MZ, ET soft-claimed scum to you, and you still thought he was town on D9
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Also yeah, insane credits to Katina.
I didn't really thought any townie would have figured that out about my plan on D8, she doing so surprised me (so much that I thought she was Harimoto because of it >_>).
Granted, had she been in the "loop" she may have thought I was town (I tried to plant the idea of making that triple-kill to MZ and perhaps ET since quite a while ago), but still, pretty impressive.
Not only that, but she correctly called out:
-chaoser
-BC
-Palmar
-ET at one point (I think)
-sandro I think
Like...she correctly called out all 6 scum. You just need to be more active so people don't find you suspicious for a while, and damn you'll just roll over scum every time from now on (you did something similar on LI where you correctly deduced Toad and VE were scumbuddies).
Insane kudos for that (and again...ignore everything I said in the scum QT >_> )
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On May 25 2012 17:34 EchelonTee wrote:
LMAO, how could I have planned something like that man? We thought that the remaining scum were Cephiro and Chaoser. Like I said, I'm not the gambit man... though I might become inspired by your play :p And we just got "lucky" on the 3vote that one day; it was an accident.
If I had to name one criticism about you, it's that you think way too convoluted-ly sometimes XD
In actuality though, you had a solid game and it was with a few hints of luck and some endgame shenanigans that you weren't able to win.
Keep it in mind though; next time we end up in a dual faction game, if you think we're both scum, let's go for the joint win > : )
And dude, talking through edits is so confusing LOL. Slow it down bro.
Well...I was always paranoid that you guys figured out I was scum on Day 4 (by checking ALL THE THINGS I've done previous to save chaoser for instance >_> ), and planned that to make me think ET was town
Well, sandro, I don't know why you outed Palmar to chaoser but it just completely fucked me up (added to your "All 3 vote the same" thing).
Damn, at least it was VERY fun coming up with all those plans and gambits
I think that I, like, came up with 1 plan per Day or something
So fun.
And dude, talking through edits is so confusing LOL. Slow it down bro.
lol.
Well, either that or I have to 1000-ple post
EDIT: Arggh! So many 's !!!!
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On May 25 2012 17:41 EchelonTee wrote:
Yeah she was on me in the early game, but luckily attention was diverted away. If she gains a bit more of that Palmar-asshole edge, she'll be great ^^ also, LOL at that pants-on-head pic.
Everyone thought sandro was scum so w.e LOL
Gonzaw, why didn't you try and work with me when it was 2-1-1? The fact that MZ and sloosh talked things over with me showed me that they were trying to find the last townie, but when you suddenly thought I was scum, it scared me and caused me to re-analyze you.
My pms to you three that night were
MZ: "why you want a draw? you probably have 1 KP left (soft claim, only scum team would proabably recognize). why not go for win?
sloosh: "did Katina tell you that she planned to save you? were you in Pm contacts with her?"
Gonzaw: "...... you scum? you trusted me way too fast"
I was slightly apprehensive to all of you, but only gonzaw bit back :p
Again..I thought sloosh was scum, but I didn't really plan on making a joint win with him or anything (again, I thought he would surely stab me in the back or something), and I tried to plan for a 2-1-1 scenario to win. My best bet would have been to buddy up to MZ (again), and I think I could have done it.
I could accuse sloosh of anything (Yokoya or Harimoto), but I needed to accuse YOU of something. Since I couldn't accuse you of Yokoya I just started accusing you of Harimoto and came up with those reasons I PMed you about and shit.
You were just the townie to misslynch at that point for me dude
Also....you suddenly thought I was scum, so I tried to gain some initiative and FoS you more "thoroughly" sort of speak, to gain an upper hand or something.
For instance, I would PM MZ about all the reasons I thought you were scum, before you could make a case against me or something, that way I could have gain MZ's trust first before you had done that or something.
If you hadn't FoSed me, I could have played the "Wow, I don't know who of ET/MZ is scum" card a little longer I think >_>
I already said I had a brain fart and I shouldn't have PMed you that last PM I sent you (the one I put in my scum QT) though, but well
EDIT: Well, by "FoS" I meant that "Are you scum?" PM you sent me >_>
I also wanted to play the "I spent 10 hours rereading the thread to figure out the scum out of ET/MZ" card instead of trying to PM with you guys.
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Also, the only way I could have lived up to the Yokoya name was to make convoluted plans but end up losing
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You know, the 2-1-1 part would have been really fun, you should have really just not shot :/
Like, imagine me and MZ working together against you and sloosh, where each group of ours thinks the other group is the group of scum working together?
That would have been SO HILARIOUS LOL!!
But now I missed it 
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ACtually, after 3 straight draws it would go to Night 9. If we didn't use our KP there, then it would be the same. After 1 draw in Round A of Day 10, EVERYBODY would be in the majority.
Then we would all give 5 votes to each other AND ALL DIE
Isn't that fun?
But now, I actually planned on buddying up with MZ, but counting on one of you/sloosh thinking the other one was scum (hopefully the townie out of you thinking the scum out of you was scum).
So, had sloosh thought ET was scum (and maybe me or MZ, didn't matter), then it would be something like this:
Majority: Me/MZ, ET, sloosh
Minority: Me/MZ
The one in the minority of us would give the one in the majority 5 votes. If one of ET/sloosh thought the other one was scum, he wouldn't give him votes, therefore he would die alone or along the other one of you two.
Hopefully, the townie out of you doesn't vote the scum out of you, meaning the scum out of you dies. It will be 2-1 at night with my KP in hand, so a win.
Yeah, that was my plan. I really wanted to see if it would have worked though >_>
Hey.. it's 6am in the morning.
Fucking game always keeping me awake >_>
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Also, MZ, why did we plan on having sandro give votes to Palmar/prplhz in our Day 6 plan?
If we had planned for sandro to give votes, to let's say, Katina or sloosh, then we could have ACTUALLY gotten sandroba lynched as well!
That would have been more fun! (I can't imagine the face of ET had that happened )
On May 25 2012 22:36 chaoser wrote:
Ok, basically the only reason I didnted survive day 4 was because palmar voted early in the day and couldn't give me his votes. Sandroba and I were playing for a joint mafia draw at that point with a small chance of backstabbing and he was willing to out palmar for me since apparently palmar wasnt communicating well with his team at the moment. Obviously he was not willing to out ET since he was deep in the circle and I told him I couldn't be saved by putting my teammate (cause gonzaw was also deep in the townie circle). Sandroba thought ceph was on my team thus I would be saved no problem but when he learned he wasn't, I was fucked. Ceph also gave his votes early that day so my negotiations with him to get someone else lynched that day fell through and he wasn't able to help.
Ehm....did you know Cephiro would give Wiggles 2 votes?
Please tell me you didn't >_>
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So you planned on turning against ET sloosh?
Damn, I think my plan would have worked then
Also, I'm adding all my PMs from this game, so if someone has A LOT of free time, feel free to check them
It would be nice if this forum had a feature to work with PMs easier. Like having the option of posting PMs directly, or posting groups of them, or having the options of the mods checking those PMs as well (as in, if I send a PM to MZ for instance, both Ver and Incog would get a copy of it, so they know everything about the game).
EDIT: chaoser, if BC was alive by Day 4 (with our alliance)...I'm sure both of you would have been lynched at the same time or something, considering our luck >_>
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On May 26 2012 00:56 slOosh wrote:
I had him and you pegged as mafia. It wasn't turning on him since we were never of the same alignment.
I guess I got caught up in making convoluted plans, and should have just pushed my read hard in the thread, but I felt like his "town read" on me was something I could manipulate.
What I mean is that you didn't think he was townie.
That was enough for me.
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Okay, posted all PMs I had from this game (in page 86 I think)
I only posted the ones from my inbox, so if there's a single PM I sent someone and they didn't reply back I missed it (except for a few that I put)
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On May 26 2012 04:27 sandroba wrote:
I loved my award too hahaha <3
@gonzaw I outed palmar because I though he needed saving and that cephiro was scum. I didn't think that chaoser would get lynched and wanted to save him, so I thought we needed a higher number of votes on palmar.
Sorry for playing a poor game. RL fucked me over in the first days, so when I got back pretty much everyone thought I was scum. Thus nobody trusted me in pms and I didn't really know what to do to change that, so I just gave up on trying to pretend at that point. And yeah I was totally up for joint mafia victory, I wasn't trying to screw you guys over, but I was afraid you would screw us over =P.
If you guys didn't want to get chaoser lynched...then not trying to save Wiggles would have been a good choice >_>
Well, then my analysis of the situation which made me think ET was confirmed town we pretty fucked up then
Like, I thought that if you guys knew Palmar had 5 votes already (from prplhz), then there was no need for chaoser to give him 5 votes at all, and there would be no need to out him.
...I guess you really trusted us or something
I just assumed you were some coldhearted bastards that wanted to fuck with us at any time, and because of that I thought that you wouldn't out Palmar to us if you knew about prplhz's votes >_>
@wbg: check my PMs from page 86 to see the "circle" we formed after you guys died (at least from my POV)
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Hey chaoser, did you still think ET was scum even after sandro claimed Palmar was scum to you?
I still can't believe how lucky Harimoto got and how unlucky we got lol (yeah, some good/bad play was probably mixed in there though).
Seriously, I can't believe how everything I planned just turned to shit, like literally (well not literally). I guess it made for good entertainment though
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On May 26 2012 11:06 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 10:08 gonzaw wrote:Hey chaoser, did you still think ET was scum even after sandro claimed Palmar was scum to you? I still can't believe how lucky Harimoto got and how unlucky we got lol (yeah, some good/bad play was probably mixed in there though). Seriously, I can't believe how everything I planned just turned to shit, like literally (well not literally). I guess it made for good entertainment though Yes. I thought palmar and ET were mafia. Once I found out from sandro that ceph wasn't mafia with him, I knew it was palmar and ET. But by then round b ended and I couldn't very well tell you my reads.
So you didn't have that conundrum I had then >_>
Also, the fact that all 3 of them voted the same on Day 3 didn't make you doubt that read or anything?
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Well, no doubt you were so sure he was mafia...you never paid attention to all the details that screamed "HE'S NOT SCUM!!!!"
EDIT: I don't want to bother you too much, but I'd like Ver or Incog's thoughts of my play, and what I could have improved, etc (I mean, both of them basically said I was obvious scum in the thread, so I guess I should have lots to improve )
Also, I'd like to know how I did in PM-land. This is basically the 2nd PM game I played in all my life (1st one was on UG), but I didn't really PM anybody my 1st time so it's technically my 1st PM game.
EDIT: Also missed this:
By Incognito:
(surprisingly nobody ever went through and put together a list of all the previous voting rounds though...)
....
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=75#1495
>_>
<_<
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Only 2 red games!
Isn't that exciting!?
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EPT
