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On May 07 2012 05:39 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:35 Sinensis wrote:
People were quick to agree that layabout was scum, but they are even quicker to agree that Nova_Terra is scum... probably because Nova_Terra is an easy target with his "I don't have time to make posts that aren't scummy" attitude. ^ I dont think the problem is making scummy posts in my case, i think its just lack of posts
WELL IF YOU THINK THAT THEN YOU ARE WRONG :D
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On May 07 2012 05:39 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:37 Nova_Terra wrote:
I find blubb leaning slightly scum actually, as his filter is a mass of 1 liners which barely say anything of note and defense of himself. I do find it strange that he isnt pushing me if he is scum, because im an obvious target and it would be a super ez town lynch. Jesus man you call that a defense? Defense implies defending yourself, not incriminating yourself.
Are you freaking joking? im answering mementoss.
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On May 07 2012 05:40 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:39 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 07 2012 05:35 Sinensis wrote:
People were quick to agree that layabout was scum, but they are even quicker to agree that Nova_Terra is scum... probably because Nova_Terra is an easy target with his "I don't have time to make posts that aren't scummy" attitude. ^ I dont think the problem is making scummy posts in my case, i think its just lack of posts WELL IF YOU THINK THAT THEN YOU ARE WRONG :D
D:
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On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information? You are aware of the fact that in the last 24 hours there have been about 100 posts from the 18 players still alive? And that half of the thread are lurking? And that both of the scum players that flipped were lurkers? zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions [1]. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? [2]Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:
You are reiterating a weak point ("kat defence") and saying that you should lynch me for the sake of "information". The link between myself and marvellosity that you are trying to create is weak. You fail to say what to do when i flip town. I cannot think of a worse reason to vote for me. What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all [3]. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing [4], together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, [5] like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. [6]Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though!
You are full of crap
[1]ways like what exactly? relying on the calimed vig in the hopes that we have an engineer and they picked refill ammo and life over doctor? relying on having a blu demoman that has placed bombs on the players we want, and then manages to get themselves killed? relying on red not having a medic that can counteract these night hits? The lynch is the most reliable way to kill players if we decide to. There are so many lurkers that we cannot grant them immunity from the lynch on the grounds that "our blues will deal with them" as you are doing.
Would you have us ignore scummy players that are lurking and lynch elsewhere?
If BM had been the only death 1 we would be in a similar position to most towns that ever were having mislynched a townie day 1.
[2]The candidates we had when i opened the thread where grush57 5 votes and then a few people with 1-2 votes. The votes were spread out. I thought and still think that grush is town. Lynching a "lurker" was the best move we could have made+ Show Spoiler +Strictly speaking BM was an inactive.
[3]???
Let's pretend that you didn't post this:
If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one which describes the information gained from lynching me, after you emphasized the value of information.
You want to kill me because i pushed a lynch that didn't give us much information. Boo fucking Hoo. That is not the point of a lynch. You lynch to kill scum. When you are desperate you might lynch a lurker (who has a chance of flipping scum) over player that are active or that you have town reads on.
[4]He is dead isn't he? I got the lynch onto him, and i would do it again. I am also going to shamelessly hijack Palmar's reputation by pointing out that he supported a BM lynch and he flipped VanillaTown/Blu Team
+ Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 06:20 Palmar wrote:
##Vote Bill Murray
[5]"questionable defense?"
i think ghost summed it up here:
Most of the argument against layabout comes from his "hard defense" of Katina. That's not a hard defense at all. Saying a rather good player is moderately intelligent and shouldn't be lynch so early in the game is just good play.
*ghost tragically forgot this later on when other people suggested killing me.
[6]You will weep tears and become the laughing stock of the entire forum!
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On May 07 2012 05:30 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 02:18 ghost_403 wrote:
I have a confession: I can't actually read. Summary of ghost's posts since he got back. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:23 Eiii wrote:
l10f just jumps on the layabout train and posts a bunch of stuff that're basically exact copies of cases others have made before him (specifically Sinensis). Memetoss hasn't really changed much in my book-- it's worth noting that he copies sinensis' layabout case as well, though that seems less like a pretending-to-contribute thing and more like a jumping-on-the-bandwagon thing since his posts otherwise seem significant enough. For now, I don't want to lynch him anymore because yesterday's flips made some people look really bad (aka layabout).
On david vs panda: I dunno. Both have been pretty inconsequential this game from my perspective, so they'd be better to shoot if anything.
So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. OMG THESE BANDWAGONERS SUCK --> joins layabout bandwagon wat Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:
Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though!
I like my chances better on you than layabout! And if you're green, darn, sorry! ##vote: Eiii
You said you've read through everyone's filter, so who else do you think is scummy?
+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 05:35 Sinensis wrote:
People were quick to agree that layabout was scum, but they are even quicker to agree that Nova_Terra is scum... probably because Nova_Terra is an easy target with his "I don't have time to make posts that aren't scummy" attitude.
I am still probably going to vote layabout today but at the rate things are going, I wouldn't mind hitting Nova_Terra if consolidation needs to happen. Papapanda is a lesser priority right now, but people should still have eyes on him. On May 07 2012 02:31 PaqMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 06:18 Sinensis wrote:On May 06 2012 05:44 PaqMan wrote:I don't like BlackRaven's posting. He has only two posts that are of any sort of significance. + Show Spoiler [BR's two significant posts] +On May 04 2012 03:51 BlackRaven wrote:Cool, lets's go Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:47 DoYouHas wrote:
Palmar's confrontational and empty 1 liners make it impossible to get a read on him. (anti-town) He is shutting down conversation instead of fostering it. (anti-town) I have no interest in keeping someone around who I won't be able to get a handle on and who I think is hurting the town.
##Vote: Palmar Firstly, confrontational and empty is an oxymoron in Mafia. Confrontation brings discussion. Discussion good. Discussion not make posts empty. Secondly, not having a read on someone does not make him anti-town. It makes him just another player in the game. It sure as hell isn't a reason to vote him. Thirdly.....well see the first point about your second one. He got you talking didn't he? :3 All this post achieves is soft-defending Palmar and nothing moreOn May 04 2012 03:53 BlackRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:47 DoYouHas wrote:On May 04 2012 03:42 BlackRaven wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 DoYouHas wrote:
Oh, and btw. You are defending Palmar by attacking the person going after him. You discredit me and Palmar no longer has a need to respond. This is wrong - D How is fitting the definition of a chainsaw defense wrong? If a player ever uses a chainsaw defence as an actual defence they are scum there is no leeway about it and its bad play all around. People should never use other peoples arguments to make them appear either townie or scum its just bad play and they deserve to be lynched if they do so. Me and Hassy both still expect things from Palmar at some stage we just both dislike you at the moment. -D This entire post is just an altercation with DYH and contributes nothing of value except for the fact that BR doesn't like DYH. BR's entire filter literally contains nothing more than pointless one-liners. The only thing he's done is ask other people questions and make comments to the side that add no value to discussion. He doesn't make any scumreads nor does he form serious opinions on people. And his D1 vote: On May 05 2012 03:22 BlackRaven wrote:
You know I liked layabout at the start but now he is probably going to cause more harm than if I was a medic...
##Vote: layabout
-D
goes without any sort of good explanation besides "I like him, now I don't." I see him as a possible lynch candidate if he doesn't pick it up and he's earned my FoS I don't like basing decisions on meta, but I can say having played with BlackRaven in the past... lots of confrontational 1 liners is par for the course for his town play. I am null on him at the moment and I believe there are better targets at the moment. Sinensis I'd like to see your reads.
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PacMan why do you keep asking me for my reads I have already posted them. Go read my filter instead of quoting yourself over and over again.
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You seem to want to only refer to the intelligent comment as the defense, but what about this one?:
On May 05 2012 05:43 layabout wrote:Katina few posts have been critical of the disruptive play at the beginning, and acted to stamp out the bad. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 07:22 SomethingAwesome wrote:On May 03 2012 07:18 blubbdavid wrote:
Haha, we have two scumslips already.
Maybe you don't know but the role PM's for vanilla townie were sent in normal font. modkill for role PM shit? idk how to answer this without breaking rules.. you are scum... all townies will know this -mattchew You are pretty quick be calling people scum Katina Implies that the "blub scumslip affair" is stupid (it was) by implying that the accusations are rather hastily made (which further implies that they are poorly thought out) Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:11 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 08:02 Blazinghand wrote:On May 03 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 07:22 SomethingAwesome wrote:On May 03 2012 07:18 blubbdavid wrote:
Haha, we have two scumslips already.
Maybe you don't know but the role PM's for vanilla townie were sent in normal font. modkill for role PM shit? idk how to answer this without breaking rules.. you are scum... all townies will know this -mattchew You are pretty quick be calling people scum Is that your whole contribution to the thread? Please, so overwhelming! Stop contributing so much! I am being sarcastic because this sentence alone that is vaguely, VAGUELY criticizering SA is far less than he has done all game for town. Game just started honey. You are so quick to run to his defense... katina points out that BH is being a big drama queen. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:32 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 08:15 Blazinghand wrote:On May 03 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Btw, I sense some kind of BlazingKenpachi party. Didn't work out so great in Aperture Mafia. On May 03 2012 08:11 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 08:02 Blazinghand wrote:On May 03 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 07:22 SomethingAwesome wrote:On May 03 2012 07:18 blubbdavid wrote:
Haha, we have two scumslips already.
Maybe you don't know but the role PM's for vanilla townie were sent in normal font. modkill for role PM shit? idk how to answer this without breaking rules.. you are scum... all townies will know this -mattchew You are pretty quick be calling people scum Is that your whole contribution to the thread? Please, so overwhelming! Stop contributing so much! I am being sarcastic because this sentence alone that is vaguely, VAGUELY criticizering SA is far less than he has done all game for town. Game just started honey. You are so quick to run to his defense... You're still not contributing, and being indirect. You're scum. ##unvote
##vote: Katinacome at me bro Not contributing? The game started a couple hours ago.... There hasn't been time. Indirect? Last I checked I was pretty direct with SA. Katina points out that the game is hours old and that there has not been time to contribute in response to BH's vote on her for not contributing. Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:05 Katina wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 grush57 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:39 blubbdavid wrote:
I am still waiting for grush to be useful. But going through his filter in other games, my hopes will be smited.
Palmar looks like a good lynch candidate too, because he 1) isn't townielike, 2) isn't making much sense 3) voted for me without reasoning.
I assume we still have 24h+ for voting? Common atleast my useless posts are funny unlike yours. Plus, you didn't understand the situation of that game I played(I'm the same role this game too). Anyways, I'm not sure what to make of the last 3 pages. It is full of useless posts and spam and Bill Murray didn't even start yet. Several posts saying nothing except that "I'm town, trust me i gotta go.... eat?" (Like this post except im not hungry atm :D) For my reasoning of Katina vote, the game just started and blazinghand was accusing Katina for his scumminess, and I agreed so I voted for him, plus I wanted to get the ball rolling. Granted, I realize now this was a dumbshit move that was scummy,and that is my horrible reasoning for it. If you don't like it, Sorry. I would vote you blubbdavid, but I have enough people witchhunting me now.(And I didn't even rage on ladder how unlucky am I?) Though, I could just filter and quote everything and that would get the job done. I like that. BH throws around empty accusations and you jump right on board with this. Looks like a case of something called "Sheeping" Don't worry, it's curable! BM has been not been his usual posting self lately. He likes to lurk when he is Mafia. He made a few brief posts early on then disappeared into La La land. So that is something to keep an eye on. I don't like the whole idea of all the vote switching that has been going on here. It's not helpful to the town and brings nothing but confusion and chaos to everyone else. I know it's only day one but at least try to have more than one sentence before getting voting happy. Criticises grush for sheeping a baseless vote. Points out how destructive the "lets all vote for no real reason" is and tells the perpetrators to stop. If Katrina does anything suspicious it is the way in which she puts attention on BM. She tells us that he tend to lurk when he is mafia that he posted earlier and is now lurking. He isn't lurking at the moment. Lurking is playing passively, posting infrequently or posting with consistently low content. BM is inactive in this game since these are his only posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2012 06:46 Bill Murray wrote:
I will extend the day and shorten the next night by one hour. Good luck and have fun.
Nobody died yet.
But don't worry.
what On May 03 2012 06:46 Bill Murray wrote:
extended days?!
hurray! Both of which of from the very beginning of the game
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Marv seems good at posting early 1 liners and then aggressively onto easy and profitable bandwagons. he is one of my top scumreads that i had earlier
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aggressively jumping, that is
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 07 2012 05:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
aggressively jumping, that is
Would have been quite easy for me to bandwagon you on day 1 instead of BM though, wouldn't it?
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On May 07 2012 05:44 Sinensis wrote:
PacMan why do you keep asking me for my reads I have already posted them. Go read my filter instead of quoting yourself over and over again.
I did read your filter and your only FoS so far is on layabout.
And please explain this:
On May 06 2012 06:18 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 05:44 PaqMan wrote:I don't like BlackRaven's posting. He has only two posts that are of any sort of significance. + Show Spoiler [BR's two significant posts] +On May 04 2012 03:51 BlackRaven wrote:Cool, lets's go Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:47 DoYouHas wrote:
Palmar's confrontational and empty 1 liners make it impossible to get a read on him. (anti-town) He is shutting down conversation instead of fostering it. (anti-town) I have no interest in keeping someone around who I won't be able to get a handle on and who I think is hurting the town.
##Vote: Palmar Firstly, confrontational and empty is an oxymoron in Mafia. Confrontation brings discussion. Discussion good. Discussion not make posts empty. Secondly, not having a read on someone does not make him anti-town. It makes him just another player in the game. It sure as hell isn't a reason to vote him. Thirdly.....well see the first point about your second one. He got you talking didn't he? :3 All this post achieves is soft-defending Palmar and nothing moreOn May 04 2012 03:53 BlackRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:47 DoYouHas wrote:On May 04 2012 03:42 BlackRaven wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 DoYouHas wrote:
Oh, and btw. You are defending Palmar by attacking the person going after him. You discredit me and Palmar no longer has a need to respond. This is wrong - D How is fitting the definition of a chainsaw defense wrong? If a player ever uses a chainsaw defence as an actual defence they are scum there is no leeway about it and its bad play all around. People should never use other peoples arguments to make them appear either townie or scum its just bad play and they deserve to be lynched if they do so. Me and Hassy both still expect things from Palmar at some stage we just both dislike you at the moment. -D This entire post is just an altercation with DYH and contributes nothing of value except for the fact that BR doesn't like DYH. BR's entire filter literally contains nothing more than pointless one-liners. The only thing he's done is ask other people questions and make comments to the side that add no value to discussion. He doesn't make any scumreads nor does he form serious opinions on people. And his D1 vote: On May 05 2012 03:22 BlackRaven wrote:
You know I liked layabout at the start but now he is probably going to cause more harm than if I was a medic...
##Vote: layabout
-D
goes without any sort of good explanation besides "I like him, now I don't." I see him as a possible lynch candidate if he doesn't pick it up and he's earned my FoS I don't like basing decisions on meta, but I can say having played with BlackRaven in the past... lots of confrontational 1 liners is par for the course for his town play. I am null on him at the moment and I believe there are better targets at the moment.
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read the thread
+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 05:45 papapanda wrote:You seem to want to only refer to the intelligent comment as the defense, but what about this one?: Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:43 layabout wrote:Katina few posts have been critical of the disruptive play at the beginning, and acted to stamp out the bad. On May 03 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 07:22 SomethingAwesome wrote:On May 03 2012 07:18 blubbdavid wrote:
Haha, we have two scumslips already.
Maybe you don't know but the role PM's for vanilla townie were sent in normal font. modkill for role PM shit? idk how to answer this without breaking rules.. you are scum... all townies will know this -mattchew You are pretty quick be calling people scum Katina Implies that the "blub scumslip affair" is stupid (it was) by implying that the accusations are rather hastily made (which further implies that they are poorly thought out) On May 03 2012 08:11 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 08:02 Blazinghand wrote:On May 03 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 07:22 SomethingAwesome wrote:On May 03 2012 07:18 blubbdavid wrote:
Haha, we have two scumslips already.
Maybe you don't know but the role PM's for vanilla townie were sent in normal font. modkill for role PM shit? idk how to answer this without breaking rules.. you are scum... all townies will know this -mattchew You are pretty quick be calling people scum Is that your whole contribution to the thread? Please, so overwhelming! Stop contributing so much! I am being sarcastic because this sentence alone that is vaguely, VAGUELY criticizering SA is far less than he has done all game for town. Game just started honey. You are so quick to run to his defense... katina points out that BH is being a big drama queen. On May 03 2012 08:32 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 08:15 Blazinghand wrote:On May 03 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Btw, I sense some kind of BlazingKenpachi party. Didn't work out so great in Aperture Mafia. On May 03 2012 08:11 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 08:02 Blazinghand wrote:On May 03 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:On May 03 2012 07:22 SomethingAwesome wrote:On May 03 2012 07:18 blubbdavid wrote:
Haha, we have two scumslips already.
Maybe you don't know but the role PM's for vanilla townie were sent in normal font. modkill for role PM shit? idk how to answer this without breaking rules.. you are scum... all townies will know this -mattchew You are pretty quick be calling people scum Is that your whole contribution to the thread? Please, so overwhelming! Stop contributing so much! I am being sarcastic because this sentence alone that is vaguely, VAGUELY criticizering SA is far less than he has done all game for town. Game just started honey. You are so quick to run to his defense... You're still not contributing, and being indirect. You're scum. ##unvote
##vote: Katinacome at me bro Not contributing? The game started a couple hours ago.... There hasn't been time. Indirect? Last I checked I was pretty direct with SA. Katina points out that the game is hours old and that there has not been time to contribute in response to BH's vote on her for not contributing. On May 04 2012 05:05 Katina wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 grush57 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:39 blubbdavid wrote:
I am still waiting for grush to be useful. But going through his filter in other games, my hopes will be smited.
Palmar looks like a good lynch candidate too, because he 1) isn't townielike, 2) isn't making much sense 3) voted for me without reasoning.
I assume we still have 24h+ for voting? Common atleast my useless posts are funny unlike yours. Plus, you didn't understand the situation of that game I played(I'm the same role this game too). Anyways, I'm not sure what to make of the last 3 pages. It is full of useless posts and spam and Bill Murray didn't even start yet. Several posts saying nothing except that "I'm town, trust me i gotta go.... eat?" (Like this post except im not hungry atm :D) For my reasoning of Katina vote, the game just started and blazinghand was accusing Katina for his scumminess, and I agreed so I voted for him, plus I wanted to get the ball rolling. Granted, I realize now this was a dumbshit move that was scummy,and that is my horrible reasoning for it. If you don't like it, Sorry. I would vote you blubbdavid, but I have enough people witchhunting me now.(And I didn't even rage on ladder how unlucky am I?) Though, I could just filter and quote everything and that would get the job done. I like that. BH throws around empty accusations and you jump right on board with this. Looks like a case of something called "Sheeping" Don't worry, it's curable! BM has been not been his usual posting self lately. He likes to lurk when he is Mafia. He made a few brief posts early on then disappeared into La La land. So that is something to keep an eye on. I don't like the whole idea of all the vote switching that has been going on here. It's not helpful to the town and brings nothing but confusion and chaos to everyone else. I know it's only day one but at least try to have more than one sentence before getting voting happy. Criticises grush for sheeping a baseless vote. Points out how destructive the "lets all vote for no real reason" is and tells the perpetrators to stop. If Katrina does anything suspicious it is the way in which she puts attention on BM. She tells us that he tend to lurk when he is mafia that he posted earlier and is now lurking. He isn't lurking at the moment. Lurking is playing passively, posting infrequently or posting with consistently low content. BM is inactive in this game since these are his only posts: + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2012 06:46 Bill Murray wrote:
I will extend the day and shorten the next night by one hour. Good luck and have fun.
Nobody died yet.
But don't worry.
what On May 03 2012 06:46 Bill Murray wrote:
extended days?!
hurray! Both of which of from the very beginning of the game
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14601216
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On May 07 2012 05:46 Nova_Terra wrote:
Marv seems good at posting early 1 liners and then aggressively onto easy and profitable bandwagons. he is one of my top scumreads that i had earlier
So despite Marv being a top scum read of your's, you would rather random vote kenpachi?
...
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one of my top scum reads doesnt mean that kenpachi isnt one, obviously
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On May 07 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:Would have been quite easy for me to bandwagon you on day 1 instead of BM though, wouldn't it?
him and i were/ are interchangably easy. you progress from him to me. your point?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 07 2012 06:08 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:On May 07 2012 05:50 Nova_Terra wrote:
aggressively jumping, that is Would have been quite easy for me to bandwagon you on day 1 instead of BM though, wouldn't it? him and i were/ are interchangably easy. you progress from him to me. your point?
Because my switch to BM has set off some bells from mem/you etc. I could have avoided this by just voting you on Day 1.
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I'm taking my vote off NT for now.
+ Show Spoiler [I10f] +On May 07 2012 05:30 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 02:18 ghost_403 wrote:
I have a confession: I can't actually read. Summary of ghost's posts since he got back. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:23 Eiii wrote:
l10f just jumps on the layabout train and posts a bunch of stuff that're basically exact copies of cases others have made before him (specifically Sinensis). Memetoss hasn't really changed much in my book-- it's worth noting that he copies sinensis' layabout case as well, though that seems less like a pretending-to-contribute thing and more like a jumping-on-the-bandwagon thing since his posts otherwise seem significant enough. For now, I don't want to lynch him anymore because yesterday's flips made some people look really bad (aka layabout).
On david vs panda: I dunno. Both have been pretty inconsequential this game from my perspective, so they'd be better to shoot if anything.
So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. OMG THESE BANDWAGONERS SUCK --> joins layabout bandwagon wat Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:
Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though!
I like my chances better on you than layabout! And if you're green, darn, sorry! ##vote: Eiii Can you elaborate on this? Like, explain your vote more thoroughly?
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On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information? You are aware of the fact that in the last 24 hours there have been about 100 posts from the 18 players still alive? And that half of the thread are lurking? And that both of the scum players that flipped were lurkers? zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions [1]. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? [2]On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:
You are reiterating a weak point ("kat defence") and saying that you should lynch me for the sake of "information". The link between myself and marvellosity that you are trying to create is weak. You fail to say what to do when i flip town. I cannot think of a worse reason to vote for me. What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all [3]. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing [4], together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, [5] like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. [6]Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though! You are full of crap [1]ways like what exactly? relying on the calimed vig in the hopes that we have an engineer and they picked refill ammo and life over doctor? relying on having a blu demoman that has placed bombs on the players we want, and then manages to get themselves killed? relying on red not having a medic that can counteract these night hits? The lynch is the most reliable way to kill players if we decide to. There are so many lurkers that we cannot grant them immunity from the lynch on the grounds that "our blues will deal with them" as you are doing. Would you have us ignore scummy players that are lurking and lynch elsewhere?
Hey remember that time I prefaced a statement with 'ideally' and then you freaked the fuck out and took it as an actual defense of lurkers even when I explicitly said right beforehand that we should definitely be killing them? That was great.
You're deliberately misinterpreting what I said there. I never came anywhere close to saying we should grant lurkers immunity from being lynched, just that they're always the best option when they can easily be killed off in other ways and we can get more out of our lynch. Plus, lynches aren't the most reliable way to kill people by a long shot. With lynches, we have to deal with mafia influence in arguments and votes. With a vig? He just shoots whoever he wants and that person dies. Seems pretty reliable to me!
On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote:
If BM had been the only death 1 we would be in a similar position to most towns that ever were having mislynched a townie day 1.!
I refuse to believe you actually think this. Mislynching an active town-- or at least one that tries to defend himself-- has a completely different outcome than lynching a lurker who everyone just kind of agrees is *probably* going to be bad for town so whatever let's kill him. Here's how I see things: Day one is always a chaotic waste of time that usually results in a mislynch or something else equally retarded (e.g. BM lynch). Day two is then mostly driven by analyzing who did what day one and, with the information gained from the day/night deaths, how those actions look. And hey, what do you know, that's almost exactly how this game is going! A good chunk of the talk today has been about Kat/206 and how people connect to them or how they connect to others-- but no one has said a thing about the BM lynch. Because it was useless.
On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:[3]??? Let's pretend that you didn't post this: Show nested quote +If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one which describes the information gained from lynching me, after you emphasized the value of information.
Let's pretend that you *actually* read and understood that and aren't just trying to attack me for whatever reason. Lynching you for information isn't even remotely close to lynching you because you're scum, and then looking into the connections that start popping up once you flip red.
On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:
You want to kill me because i pushed a lynch that didn't give us much information. Boo fucking Hoo. That is not the point of a lynch. You lynch to kill scum. When you are desperate you might lynch a lurker (who has a chance of flipping scum) over player that are active or that you have town reads on.
I want to kill you because you've done scummy things. You started a scummy lynch bandwagon day one and you defended another scum, which is suspicious in ways that have been brought up again and again. So I agree-- let's lynch scum! If only you had that same mantra day one, when you decided that you didn't like where the lynch was going so you just threw a lurker (or 'inactive', whatever) onto the fire, who you had no reason to believe was red. What happened to 'let's lynch scum' then? When you're desperate for a lynch you find the scummiest player and you lynch them, you don't just redirect the lynch onto whoever's convenient.
On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:[5]"questionable defense?" i think ghost summed it up here: Show nested quote +
Most of the argument against layabout comes from his "hard defense" of Katina. That's not a hard defense at all. Saying a rather good player is moderately intelligent and shouldn't be lynch so early in the game is just good play.
*ghost tragically forgot this later on when other people suggested killing me.
'Player X is scummy and the best candidate we have for a lynch today-- but let's not lynch them! They're smart! Let's at least wait until later.'
...that's a perfectly reasonable, valid defense to you? ok.
On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:
[6]You will weep tears and become the laughing stock of the entire forum!
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Eiii you're misinterpreting layabout on purpose and it's not looking good for you.
That's fine and dandy if you think he's scum, I have no problem with that. But your reason "defended another scum" is complete bullshit and totally invalid. Despite being pointed out MULTIPLE TIMES, you're still using it as a reason to convict layabout as scum.
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Can somebody other than me adress why the above post from Eiii is wrong so that instead of just arguing with each other i can pretend that you don't exist and play the game and he can not post at me?
i will even get you started:
contradiction:
but no one has said a thing about the BM lynch. Because it was useless.
You started a scummy lynch bandwagon day
comment which has nothing to do with what i wrote:
'Player X is scummy and the best candidate we have for a lynch today-- but let's not lynch them! They're smart! Let's at least wait until later.'
...that's a perfectly reasonable, valid defense to you? ok.
Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information?
We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now?
so we should kill lurkers by means other than the lynch.
You're deliberately misinterpreting what I said there. I never came anywhere close to saying we should grant lurkers immunity from being lynched, just that they're always the best option when they can easily be killed off in other ways and we can get more out of our lynch. Plus, lynches aren't the most reliable way to kill people by a long shot. With lynches, we have to deal with mafia influence in arguments and votes. With a vig? He just shoots whoever he wants and that person dies. Seems pretty reliable to me!
whoever gets the most votes dies. always, the lynch kills people, whoever it targets dies It is reliable killing mechanism.
Vig shots can be blocked by red & blue medics and engineers (medics), and red roleblockers(syies and blu heavies (veterans). An unreliable killing mechanism.
What happened to 'let's lynch scum' then? When you're desperate for a lynch you find the scummiest player and you lynch them, you don't just redirect the lynch onto whoever's convenient.
Since we had an awful chance of lynching scum (spread out votes, weak cases, limited discussion, nearly everyone was afk and the leading candidate looked green(blu)) I went into last resort mode and tried to get us to lynch BM.
You then called me scummy for pushing a lynch that generated limited information, when the very concept of lynching for information has been agreed upon by this sites best regarded players as a bad town play that you can take advantage of as mafia:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748
+ Show Spoiler +When the town is allowed to focus on one or two key topics at a time (without the same points being repeated over and over), then the town is in a strong place. Lack of doubt, inflammatory posting, and strong town leadership must be avoided. Here are some of the things mafia can do to steer the town in the wrong direction:
Incite active or aggressive players to do the work for you. If you can get a player emotionally invested enough in one train of thought, they can likely cause the chaos you need without linking you directly to the bad atmosphere. If something goes wrong, the town will generally blame the most vocal and aggressive person, even if someone else was really behind the chaos. By letting other townies do the work for you, you allow them to take the fall when town realizes they were on the wrong track.
guess i got carried away. The introduction is a bit hateful. I think i will just edit it slightly.
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