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I'm a cop you idiot mafia - Page 4
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + [4/13/2012 11:20:20 PM] Blazinghand: yo [4/13/2012 11:20:22 PM] Blazinghand: so i claimed cop [4/13/2012 11:20:24 PM] Dirkzor: Hi there! [4/13/2012 11:20:26 PM] Dirkzor: Dirk here [4/13/2012 11:20:29 PM] Dirkzor: yeah i saw [4/13/2012 11:20:30 PM] Blazinghand: since the cop claim was inevitable [4/13/2012 11:20:39 PM] Dirkzor: yeha. one of us had to do it [4/13/2012 11:20:43 PM] Blazinghand: who should we shoot? [4/13/2012 11:20:49 PM] Dirkzor: still reading last page now Just woke up [4/13/2012 11:20:58 PM] Blazinghand: kk [4/13/2012 11:21:15 PM] Blazinghand: i'm considering johnnywup because he supported me [4/13/2012 11:21:32 PM] Dirkzor: Right now we should shoot WBG i think. Radfield is making ton of sense but I don't think he is a blue. and the blue wins this game [4/13/2012 11:21:36 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:21:42 PM] Blazinghand: i'll PM Palm [4/13/2012 11:21:49 PM] Dirkzor: wait we have time [4/13/2012 11:21:56 PM] Dirkzor: let me read the rest first and post =) [4/13/2012 11:22:02 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:03 PM] Blazinghand: I sent in the JW shot already [4/13/2012 11:22:06 PM] Blazinghand: so i'm gonna change it [4/13/2012 11:22:12 PM] Blazinghand: just because WBG sounds smarter [4/13/2012 11:22:17 PM] Dirkzor: let it stay for now [4/13/2012 11:22:19 PM] Blazinghand: oh ok [4/13/2012 11:22:31 PM] Dirkzor: what the time in your zone now? [4/13/2012 11:22:35 PM] Blazinghand: 11:20 pm [4/13/2012 11:22:40 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be up for another 3-4 hours [4/13/2012 11:22:45 PM] Dirkzor: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:46 PM] Dirkzor: super [4/13/2012 11:23:54 PM] Blazinghand: N0 is only 12 hours btw [4/13/2012 11:24:09 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. 3½ h left [4/13/2012 11:28:44 PM] Dirkzor: hmm. YOu're dead =) [4/13/2012 11:28:59 PM] Blazinghand: should we just shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:29:37 PM] Dirkzor: I was thinking about it. That way town don't get to me by being lucky and they dont get anymore confirmed towns by way of him checking. [4/13/2012 11:29:55 PM] Dirkzor: But i just have to think it through. I bus/vote you d1 [4/13/2012 11:30:11 PM] Blazinghand: yeah I mean there is another option right [4/13/2012 11:30:14 PM] Blazinghand: shoot a townie [4/13/2012 11:30:19 PM] Blazinghand: and you just buddy up to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:31:32 PM] Dirkzor: hmm... Right now tunkeg won't ever check radfield. [4/13/2012 11:31:40 PM] Blazinghand: right [4/13/2012 11:31:50 PM] Blazinghand: I think he's gonna check JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Blazinghand: which is why i want to shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Dirkzor: or BL [4/13/2012 11:32:14 PM] Blazinghand: if we can shoot whoever he's checking [4/13/2012 11:32:21 PM] Blazinghand: he'll look very bad [4/13/2012 11:33:04 PM] Dirkzor: yeah. But do you want to risk it? [4/13/2012 11:33:28 PM] Dirkzor: I would rather end up with a scenario like this: [4/13/2012 11:34:42 PM] Dirkzor: n0: Shoot tunkeg d1: Lynch you N1: Shoot whoever i think is medic (or the most townie). Medic have 25% to save. d2: 4 players alive. LYLO. no one confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Blazinghand: the good news is we go into D2 with no good discussion happening [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Dirkzor: With me BL and mattchew is should be able to come out alive [4/13/2012 11:35:13 PM] Blazinghand: ok, I agree with this plan [4/13/2012 11:35:19 PM] Blazinghand: i'll change the shot to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:35:36 PM] Dirkzor: But it all depends on if we want to get lucky now or lucky later [4/13/2012 11:36:04 PM] Blazinghand: if we dont' shoot tunkeg though,a nd I get lynched D1 [4/13/2012 11:36:05 PM] Dirkzor: we have to dodge 2 medics with my plan (tonight and night1) or get lucky and kill the right dude to night [4/13/2012 11:36:21 PM] Blazinghand: we're looking at 3 confirmed town players D2 [4/13/2012 11:36:25 PM] Blazinghand: unless we shoot one of them of course [4/13/2012 11:36:40 PM] Blazinghand: if Radfield hasn't made his case I'd say we shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:36:46 PM] Blazinghand: but after the Radfield case it might be better just to shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:38:32 PM] Dirkzor: another scenario: we shoot JW. Tunk checked BL. d1: You get lynched (most likely). Now there are 2 confirmed. n1: I shoot either BL (can't shoot Tunkeg due to the medic) [4/13/2012 11:38:56 PM] Dirkzor: d2: Ends with me, rad, wbg, tunkeg at lylo. 2 confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:39:16 PM] Blazinghand: then it's basically you vs the other unconfirmed guy [4/13/2012 11:39:20 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:39:36 PM] Blazinghand: if tunkeg checked JW though, then we have a strong chance D1 [4/13/2012 11:40:03 PM] Blazinghand: the real question is how confident we are that tunkeg is going to check JW [4/13/2012 11:40:44 PM] Dirkzor: Not very good. WBG havent posted anything usefull yet. Mattchew is being an idiot. BL is spewing nonsense and I havent even posted [4/13/2012 11:40:53 PM] Dirkzor: so he have reason to check any of the 4 [4/13/2012 11:41:14 PM] Dirkzor: If i start posting sense (which i should soon) that leaves maybe only 3 [4/13/2012 11:41:40 PM] Blazinghand: tunkeg is asleep though [4/13/2012 11:41:43 PM] Dirkzor: But will medic protect Tunkeg n0? [4/13/2012 11:41:44 PM] Blazinghand: he probably already sent in his check [4/13/2012 11:41:53 PM] Blazinghand: medic MIGHT protect tunkeg n0 [4/13/2012 11:41:55 PM] Blazinghand: but that's a huge risk [4/13/2012 11:42:06 PM] Blazinghand: because... if tunkeg is scum [4/13/2012 11:42:13 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. [4/13/2012 11:42:22 PM] Blazinghand: and we're expected to shoot into the VTs looking for the medic [4/13/2012 11:42:32 PM] Dirkzor: I think we should kill Tunkeg. [4/13/2012 11:42:39 PM] Blazinghand: I think so as well [4/13/2012 11:42:42 PM] Blazinghand: I'll send in the shot. [4/13/2012 11:43:17 PM] Dirkzor: problem is medic will protect rad/WBG night1 and I don't want those guys at LYLO :D But thats my problem I guess. [4/13/2012 11:44:08 PM] Blazinghand: very well [4/13/2012 11:44:11 PM] Blazinghand: I have pmed Palmar [4/13/2012 11:44:33 PM] Blazinghand: at this point I think i'm just gonna be silent until daybreak unless you need me to bus or something [4/13/2012 11:45:18 PM] Dirkzor: good. Don't bus today. It will be obvious once Tunkeg dies that you as scum would be anti his team mate. [4/13/2012 11:45:35 PM] Dirkzor: So basicly doing nothing leaves be pretty neutral so they can't find me through you [4/13/2012 11:45:42 PM] Dirkzor: leaves me* [4/13/2012 11:45:49 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:46:41 PM] Dirkzor: But I will be leaning you as scum and support radfeilds case. That will make radfeild even more town and hopefully me aswell by extension [4/13/2012 11:46:54 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:47:04 PM] Blazinghand: i won't respond to your or Rad until morning [4/13/2012 11:47:10 PM] Blazinghand: and D1 [4/13/2012 11:47:13 PM] Blazinghand: I guess I just won't talk [4/13/2012 11:47:15 PM] Blazinghand: since tunkeg will be dead [4/13/2012 11:47:18 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be claimed scum [4/13/2012 11:47:30 PM] Dirkzor: posting time! So fun being scum btw. First time I'm scum btw [4/13/2012 11:47:31 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:47:35 PM] Blazinghand: me too [4/13/2012 11:47:36 PM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/13/2012 11:49:21 PM] Blazinghand: oh at daybreak i'll post one final message [4/13/2012 11:49:23 PM] Blazinghand: "blow me town" [4/13/2012 11:49:28 PM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/13/2012 11:49:52 PM] Blazinghand: brb [4/13/2012 11:53:22 PM] Blazinghand: btw i'm blazinghand.736 on EU [4/13/2012 11:54:20 PM] Dirkzor: Im.. eh... I dont play  [4/13/2012 11:54:27 PM] Blazinghand: oh [4/13/2012 11:54:28 PM] Blazinghand: lol [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Dirkzor: well... very rarely. [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Blazinghand: what brings you by TL, then? [4/13/2012 11:54:46 PM] Dirkzor: SC2 did... but mostly to watch [4/13/2012 11:55:19 PM] Blazinghand: cool [4/13/2012 11:55:23 PM] Blazinghand: i'm watching GSL right now [4/13/2012 11:55:56 PM] Dirkzor: yeah... I would be but i need to post Its going to get a big one[4/14/2012 12:01:23 AM] Blazinghand: another thought is you could support me really hard [4/14/2012 12:01:33 AM] Blazinghand: and then when i claim scum it'll be like "oh hey dirk must be town [4/14/2012 12:01:41 AM] Blazinghand: cause scum would know if tunkeg was gonna die" [4/14/2012 12:01:59 AM] Dirkzor: hmm... [4/14/2012 12:02:05 AM] Dirkzor: maybe [4/14/2012 12:02:49 AM] Dirkzor: I don't know. I just think I want to go into d1 without to much of a reputation. Then I should be able to argue that BL or mattchew is scummy.. [4/14/2012 12:02:55 AM] Blazinghand: true [4/14/2012 12:03:00 AM] Blazinghand: mattchew and BL are both scummy [4/14/2012 12:03:12 AM] Blazinghand: just throwing out another way you could get a little bit of towniness [4/14/2012 12:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: it's sorta a gambit though [4/14/2012 12:03:22 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 12:03:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll think about while posting =) [4/14/2012 12:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: Okay. Good morning =) (And sorry for drunk posting. Wasn't as bad as other players though ) What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions. On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us. But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me. Then he go to fake-claim going to bed (lol). BH comes in supporting the claim. On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind. On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up. I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts. Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to town. But some stands out: On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!") On April 14 2012 09:51 Tunkeg wrote: Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield. Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic. On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote: That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is. To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up. I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote. [4/14/2012 12:50:50 AM] Dirkzor: copy that to TL and read it. Tell me what you think [4/14/2012 12:50:57 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 12:51:02 AM] Dirkzor: (just dont fucking post it LOL) [4/14/2012 12:52:49 AM] Blazinghand: "But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game" [4/14/2012 12:52:51 AM] Blazinghand: I'd reword this [4/14/2012 12:53:48 AM] Blazinghand: and be like "a scum player wouldn't do this, this is a very bold move, as a town player would make" [4/14/2012 12:53:49 AM] Blazinghand: or something [4/14/2012 12:54:21 AM] Dirkzor: okay.. yeah.. [4/14/2012 12:54:54 AM] Blazinghand: " I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote." [4/14/2012 12:54:56 AM] Blazinghand: this is really good [4/14/2012 12:55:01 AM] Blazinghand: I like that you end with that paragraph [4/14/2012 12:55:07 AM] Blazinghand: overall this is a good post [4/14/2012 12:55:28 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you send it in before palmar triggers day post [4/14/2012 12:55:38 AM] Blazinghand: Day 1 is going to be very short [4/14/2012 12:55:42 AM] Blazinghand: i'll probably get instahammered [4/14/2012 12:55:46 AM] Blazinghand: btw [4/14/2012 12:55:54 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:55:58 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you vote for me as soon as tunkeg flips cop [4/14/2012 12:56:02 AM] Blazinghand: or at lest, quickly [4/14/2012 12:56:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:56:18 AM] Dirkzor: Who do you tihnk is the medic? [4/14/2012 12:56:26 AM] Blazinghand: hmmmmm [4/14/2012 12:56:27 AM] Dirkzor: if I could hit him n1 it would be insane [4/14/2012 12:56:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah if you hit the medic n1 we're in a good shape [4/14/2012 12:57:26 AM] Blazinghand: in any case, once i'm hammered I can't help you any more [4/14/2012 12:57:30 AM] Blazinghand: i'll become an observer [4/14/2012 12:57:36 AM] Blazinghand: bluelightz typically is quiet [4/14/2012 12:57:50 AM] Dirkzor: good for me. [4/14/2012 12:57:55 AM] Dirkzor: should be lynchable =) [4/14/2012 12:58:03 AM] Dirkzor: Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. [4/14/2012 12:58:07 AM] Blazinghand: I dont' think Radfield is the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:09 AM] Dirkzor: re-wrote it [4/14/2012 12:58:14 AM] Blazinghand: I think he'd be more quiet about his scum reads as the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:57 AM] Blazinghand: WBG might be [4/14/2012 12:59:33 AM] Dirkzor: its hard [4/14/2012 1:00:07 AM] Blazinghand: I like this new paragraph [4/14/2012 1:00:18 AM] Dirkzor: posted [4/14/2012 1:00:21 AM] Blazinghand: so i mean, as available "could be the medic" people [4/14/2012 1:00:27 AM] Blazinghand: we've got BL, JW, Rad, WBG [4/14/2012 1:00:31 AM] Blazinghand: Rad seems too aggressive [4/14/2012 1:00:36 AM] Blazinghand: I wouldn't shoot BL [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: because he's good to keep around [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: as a mislynch [4/14/2012 1:00:45 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:00:52 AM] Dirkzor: mattchew aswell [4/14/2012 1:00:57 AM] Dirkzor: with his stupid vote thingy [4/14/2012 1:00:58 AM] Blazinghand: oh I forgot about mattchew [4/14/2012 1:01:01 AM] Blazinghand: wait [4/14/2012 1:01:06 AM] Blazinghand: i thought the player loist was [4/14/2012 1:01:11 AM] Blazinghand: BL, JW, Rad, Tunkeg, WBG, you, me [4/14/2012 1:01:37 AM] Blazinghand: 7 players [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Blazinghand: so I'd say, keep BL around as mislynch material [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Dirkzor: it is lol [4/14/2012 1:02:37 AM] Dirkzor: everytime I'd written mattchew I meant johnnywup [4/14/2012 1:02:39 AM] Blazinghand: ah [4/14/2012 1:02:40 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 1:02:45 AM] Blazinghand: yeah, the big thing is [4/14/2012 1:02:48 AM] Blazinghand: if you can't tell who the medic is [4/14/2012 1:02:51 AM] Blazinghand: shoot JW [4/14/2012 1:02:58 AM] Blazinghand: I THINK WBG is the medic [4/14/2012 1:03:01 AM] Blazinghand: that's what my gut says [4/14/2012 1:03:10 AM] Blazinghand: but if WBG isn't the medic, the medic may be protecting him [4/14/2012 1:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: the medic will definitely protect him or radfield [4/14/2012 1:03:26 AM] Dirkzor: Think it will be rad who protected [4/14/2012 1:03:34 AM] Dirkzor: every night [4/14/2012 1:03:35 AM] Blazinghand: yeah rad will have a lot of town cred after i flip [4/14/2012 1:03:40 AM] Blazinghand: and i dont' think rad is medic [4/14/2012 1:03:42 AM] Blazinghand: so [4/14/2012 1:03:46 AM] Dirkzor: agree [4/14/2012 1:03:53 AM] Blazinghand: shooting WBG is probablyt he right move [4/14/2012 1:03:57 AM] Blazinghand: and JW and BL are both weak players [4/14/2012 1:04:02 AM] Blazinghand: making it hard to lynch you [4/14/2012 1:04:05 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 1:04:36 AM] Dirkzor: I think the ranking would be: rad WBG Me/Johnny BL in how good they are perceived [4/14/2012 1:05:04 AM] Blazinghand: sounds about right [4/14/2012 1:05:09 AM | Edited 1:05:13 AM] Blazinghand: JW will look bad after i flip [4/14/2012 1:05:38 AM] Dirkzor: Yeah. I'll push the thought about him basicly bussing you because he knew Tunkeg would die [4/14/2012 1:05:59 AM] Blazinghand: sounds like a good plan [4/14/2012 1:06:15 AM] Dirkzor: This is very interesting =) [4/14/2012 1:06:19 AM] Blazinghand: it's a fun setup [4/14/2012 1:06:21 AM] Blazinghand: very fast-paced [4/14/2012 1:06:31 AM] Dirkzor: hehe yeah :D [4/14/2012 1:09:20 AM] Dirkzor: And now: GSL! [4/14/2012 1:09:32 AM] Dirkzor: Naniwa made it trough!!! WOO! Did he play well? [4/14/2012 1:09:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah [4/14/2012 1:09:39 AM] Dirkzor: I was at work so couldn't watch [4/14/2012 1:09:51 AM] Blazinghand: i think the vod of game 1 is free [4/14/2012 1:10:10 AM] Blazinghand: I hope naniwa makes it to the Ro8 [4/14/2012 1:10:32 AM] Dirkzor: yeah.. Would be insane.. But i think he needs a PvP to do it... [4/14/2012 1:11:15 AM] Blazinghand: it really depends who's in his group in the 2nd group stages [4/14/2012 1:12:26 AM] Blazinghand: MC vs Inca happening atm [4/14/2012 1:12:40 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:13:48 AM] Dirkzor: i love pvp... so much action =) [4/14/2012 2:10:09 AM] Blazinghand: daybreak in about 30 minutes [4/14/2012 2:10:24 AM] Dirkzor: aye [4/14/2012 2:46:15 AM] Dirkzor: any thoughts about WBG now that he posted a bit? [4/14/2012 2:47:03 AM] Blazinghand: i mean, i have a townread on him [4/14/2012 2:47:13 AM] Dirkzor: obviously [4/14/2012 2:47:36 AM] Blazinghand: he's being very "town" [4/14/2012 2:47:43 AM] Blazinghand: I think he's not the medic [4/14/2012 2:47:44 AM] Blazinghand: and he anticipates being protected [4/14/2012 2:48:26 AM] Dirkzor: damn... I don't want the medic to be BL or Johnny. If they are and I try to get one of them lynched I have to counter claim [4/14/2012 2:49:55 AM] Blazinghand: " Well, I don't have the experience nor confidence to take that decision straight from the get go" -tunkeg [4/14/2012 2:50:00 AM] Blazinghand: man [4/14/2012 2:50:02 AM] Blazinghand: mannnn [4/14/2012 2:50:06 AM] Blazinghand: tunkeg playing such a bad cop [4/14/2012 2:50:15 AM] Dirkzor: hehe =) [4/14/2012 2:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: I'm sure if I should point out he is playing the newbie card.. [4/14/2012 2:51:22 AM] Blazinghand: remember he's gonna flip in like 5 minutes [4/14/2012 2:51:35 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... But i dont know that [4/14/2012 2:52:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll just stop posting.. I came out of n0 looking town i think. I made a good case, pushed discussion and with no bias... [4/14/2012 2:52:54 AM] Blazinghand: at this point [4/14/2012 2:52:58 AM] Blazinghand: just stay silent until the flip [4/14/2012 2:54:34 AM] Dirkzor: SUPER! [4/14/2012 2:54:44 AM] Dirkzor: he just pointed me out as a town read [4/14/2012 2:56:29 AM] Blazinghand: nice [4/14/2012 2:56:48 AM] Blazinghand: so you and Rad are basically gonna have a lot of town cred [4/14/2012 2:56:55 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 2:57:31 AM] Dirkzor: If i can just keep this going town have to lynch into WBG/BL/Johnny. I just hope our night kills goes through. [4/14/2012 2:57:47 AM] Blazinghand: it's pretty unlikely tunkeg got protected [4/14/2012 2:57:54 AM] Blazinghand: if he did, medic will claim and i'll get lynched D1 like normal [4/14/2012 2:58:03 AM] Blazinghand: and you'll have to shoot the medic N1 [4/14/2012 2:58:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... radfield pointed it out aswell as a "bad" option for scum [4/14/2012 3:09:28 AM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/14/2012 3:09:34 AM] Dirkzor: I laughed when I saw your post [4/14/2012 3:12:07 AM] Dirkzor: GG mate! Good claim. One of us had to do it at some point =) [4/14/2012 3:12:13 AM] Blazinghand: um [4/14/2012 3:12:15 AM] Blazinghand: just vote me now [4/14/2012 3:12:16 AM] Blazinghand: imo [4/14/2012 3:12:25 AM] Blazinghand: like [4/14/2012 3:12:31 AM] Blazinghand: no real discussion can happenw hile i'm alive [4/14/2012 3:14:30 AM] Dirkzor: Thats just not me. I'm trying to play this as I would as town. The others will vote you no worries... [4/14/2012 3:15:22 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 3:20:17 AM] Dirkzor: cluttering the thread is fine =) [4/14/2012 3:23:49 AM] Dirkzor: On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is? Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum. Only me that finds this suspecious? [4/14/2012 3:23:52 AM] Dirkzor: good or bad post? [4/14/2012 3:28:19 AM] Blazinghand: WBG's question is definitely suspicious [4/14/2012 3:28:24 AM] Blazinghand: calling him out for it is reasonable [4/14/2012 3:28:30 AM] Blazinghand: that being said [4/14/2012 3:28:36 AM] Blazinghand: the 2nd scum is now aq good thing to talk about [4/14/2012 3:28:40 AM] Blazinghand: like, as of tunkeg's flip [4/14/2012 3:28:46 AM] Blazinghand: so specficy that the question was bad then [4/14/2012 3:28:47 AM] Blazinghand: but good now [4/14/2012 3:28:53 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 3:28:54 AM] Blazinghand: and that asking it back then is what scum would do [4/14/2012 3:28:57 AM] Blazinghand: asking it NOW is what town does [4/14/2012 3:30:34 AM] Dirkzor: On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is? Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum. Only me that finds this suspicious? I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do... [4/14/2012 3:30:42 AM] Dirkzor: bolded the before in the first sentence aswell [4/14/2012 3:31:00 AM] Blazinghand: sounds good [4/14/2012 3:31:01 AM] Blazinghand: do it [4/14/2012 3:34:34 AM] Dirkzor: whatever medic tell you find just post it to me here. I'll make up my mind later if I want to try and kill the medic or whoever is less likely to be protected and not someone I can get a mislynch on [4/14/2012 3:36:16 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 3:36:21 AM] Blazinghand: i'm probably dead pretty soon [4/14/2012 3:36:25 AM] Blazinghand: after which i won't be able to help you any more [4/14/2012 3:36:48 AM] Dirkzor: thats why you should post just when you find them... :D (ofc stop when you die. No cheating! )[4/14/2012 3:37:10 AM] Dirkzor: BL could be the medic. Why would he talk about that the medic protected BH... [4/14/2012 3:37:14 AM] Dirkzor: makes no sense [4/14/2012 3:37:18 AM] Dirkzor: but then again BL never makes sense [4/14/2012 3:37:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah i wouldn't consider that a medic tell from BL [4/14/2012 3:37:42 AM] Blazinghand: he's unreadable to me [4/14/2012 3:40:57 AM] Dirkzor: lol BL called me town. [4/14/2012 3:58:09 AM] Blazinghand: dude BL is burying himself [4/14/2012 3:58:10 AM] Blazinghand: this is great [4/14/2012 3:58:13 AM] Blazinghand: just let him interact with wBG [4/14/2012 4:02:15 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 4:02:50 AM] Dirkzor: i'll be away for 30 in or so... Have to get some food. [4/14/2012 4:02:53 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 4:03:03 AM] Blazinghand: i don't really know what i'm doing in the thread [4/14/2012 4:03:11 AM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/14/2012 4:03:16 AM] Dirkzor: you're just fucking it up thats what... and its good fun :D [4/14/2012 4:09:26 AM] Blazinghand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827¤tpage=10#197 [4/14/2012 4:09:27 AM] Blazinghand: ROFL [4/14/2012 4:09:32 AM] Blazinghand: this is so good [4/14/2012 4:11:45 AM] Dirkzor: Rad think I'm town too... He doesn't mention me at all.. [4/14/2012 4:11:49 AM] Dirkzor: Well shopping brb [4/14/2012 4:12:09 AM] Blazinghand: kk | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
reposted here for reference: On April 18 2012 08:32 Blazinghand wrote: Scum convo: + Show Spoiler + [4/13/2012 11:20:20 PM] Blazinghand: yo [4/13/2012 11:20:22 PM] Blazinghand: so i claimed cop [4/13/2012 11:20:24 PM] Dirkzor: Hi there! [4/13/2012 11:20:26 PM] Dirkzor: Dirk here [4/13/2012 11:20:29 PM] Dirkzor: yeah i saw [4/13/2012 11:20:30 PM] Blazinghand: since the cop claim was inevitable [4/13/2012 11:20:39 PM] Dirkzor: yeha. one of us had to do it [4/13/2012 11:20:43 PM] Blazinghand: who should we shoot? [4/13/2012 11:20:49 PM] Dirkzor: still reading last page now Just woke up [4/13/2012 11:20:58 PM] Blazinghand: kk [4/13/2012 11:21:15 PM] Blazinghand: i'm considering johnnywup because he supported me [4/13/2012 11:21:32 PM] Dirkzor: Right now we should shoot WBG i think. Radfield is making ton of sense but I don't think he is a blue. and the blue wins this game [4/13/2012 11:21:36 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:21:42 PM] Blazinghand: i'll PM Palm [4/13/2012 11:21:49 PM] Dirkzor: wait we have time [4/13/2012 11:21:56 PM] Dirkzor: let me read the rest first and post =) [4/13/2012 11:22:02 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:03 PM] Blazinghand: I sent in the JW shot already [4/13/2012 11:22:06 PM] Blazinghand: so i'm gonna change it [4/13/2012 11:22:12 PM] Blazinghand: just because WBG sounds smarter [4/13/2012 11:22:17 PM] Dirkzor: let it stay for now [4/13/2012 11:22:19 PM] Blazinghand: oh ok [4/13/2012 11:22:31 PM] Dirkzor: what the time in your zone now? [4/13/2012 11:22:35 PM] Blazinghand: 11:20 pm [4/13/2012 11:22:40 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be up for another 3-4 hours [4/13/2012 11:22:45 PM] Dirkzor: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:46 PM] Dirkzor: super [4/13/2012 11:23:54 PM] Blazinghand: N0 is only 12 hours btw [4/13/2012 11:24:09 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. 3½ h left [4/13/2012 11:28:44 PM] Dirkzor: hmm. YOu're dead =) [4/13/2012 11:28:59 PM] Blazinghand: should we just shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:29:37 PM] Dirkzor: I was thinking about it. That way town don't get to me by being lucky and they dont get anymore confirmed towns by way of him checking. [4/13/2012 11:29:55 PM] Dirkzor: But i just have to think it through. I bus/vote you d1 [4/13/2012 11:30:11 PM] Blazinghand: yeah I mean there is another option right [4/13/2012 11:30:14 PM] Blazinghand: shoot a townie [4/13/2012 11:30:19 PM] Blazinghand: and you just buddy up to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:31:32 PM] Dirkzor: hmm... Right now tunkeg won't ever check radfield. [4/13/2012 11:31:40 PM] Blazinghand: right [4/13/2012 11:31:50 PM] Blazinghand: I think he's gonna check JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Blazinghand: which is why i want to shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Dirkzor: or BL [4/13/2012 11:32:14 PM] Blazinghand: if we can shoot whoever he's checking [4/13/2012 11:32:21 PM] Blazinghand: he'll look very bad [4/13/2012 11:33:04 PM] Dirkzor: yeah. But do you want to risk it? [4/13/2012 11:33:28 PM] Dirkzor: I would rather end up with a scenario like this: [4/13/2012 11:34:42 PM] Dirkzor: n0: Shoot tunkeg d1: Lynch you N1: Shoot whoever i think is medic (or the most townie). Medic have 25% to save. d2: 4 players alive. LYLO. no one confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Blazinghand: the good news is we go into D2 with no good discussion happening [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Dirkzor: With me BL and mattchew is should be able to come out alive [4/13/2012 11:35:13 PM] Blazinghand: ok, I agree with this plan [4/13/2012 11:35:19 PM] Blazinghand: i'll change the shot to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:35:36 PM] Dirkzor: But it all depends on if we want to get lucky now or lucky later [4/13/2012 11:36:04 PM] Blazinghand: if we dont' shoot tunkeg though,a nd I get lynched D1 [4/13/2012 11:36:05 PM] Dirkzor: we have to dodge 2 medics with my plan (tonight and night1) or get lucky and kill the right dude to night [4/13/2012 11:36:21 PM] Blazinghand: we're looking at 3 confirmed town players D2 [4/13/2012 11:36:25 PM] Blazinghand: unless we shoot one of them of course [4/13/2012 11:36:40 PM] Blazinghand: if Radfield hasn't made his case I'd say we shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:36:46 PM] Blazinghand: but after the Radfield case it might be better just to shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:38:32 PM] Dirkzor: another scenario: we shoot JW. Tunk checked BL. d1: You get lynched (most likely). Now there are 2 confirmed. n1: I shoot either BL (can't shoot Tunkeg due to the medic) [4/13/2012 11:38:56 PM] Dirkzor: d2: Ends with me, rad, wbg, tunkeg at lylo. 2 confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:39:16 PM] Blazinghand: then it's basically you vs the other unconfirmed guy [4/13/2012 11:39:20 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:39:36 PM] Blazinghand: if tunkeg checked JW though, then we have a strong chance D1 [4/13/2012 11:40:03 PM] Blazinghand: the real question is how confident we are that tunkeg is going to check JW [4/13/2012 11:40:44 PM] Dirkzor: Not very good. WBG havent posted anything usefull yet. Mattchew is being an idiot. BL is spewing nonsense and I havent even posted [4/13/2012 11:40:53 PM] Dirkzor: so he have reason to check any of the 4 [4/13/2012 11:41:14 PM] Dirkzor: If i start posting sense (which i should soon) that leaves maybe only 3 [4/13/2012 11:41:40 PM] Blazinghand: tunkeg is asleep though [4/13/2012 11:41:43 PM] Dirkzor: But will medic protect Tunkeg n0? [4/13/2012 11:41:44 PM] Blazinghand: he probably already sent in his check [4/13/2012 11:41:53 PM] Blazinghand: medic MIGHT protect tunkeg n0 [4/13/2012 11:41:55 PM] Blazinghand: but that's a huge risk [4/13/2012 11:42:06 PM] Blazinghand: because... if tunkeg is scum [4/13/2012 11:42:13 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. [4/13/2012 11:42:22 PM] Blazinghand: and we're expected to shoot into the VTs looking for the medic [4/13/2012 11:42:32 PM] Dirkzor: I think we should kill Tunkeg. [4/13/2012 11:42:39 PM] Blazinghand: I think so as well [4/13/2012 11:42:42 PM] Blazinghand: I'll send in the shot. [4/13/2012 11:43:17 PM] Dirkzor: problem is medic will protect rad/WBG night1 and I don't want those guys at LYLO :D But thats my problem I guess. [4/13/2012 11:44:08 PM] Blazinghand: very well [4/13/2012 11:44:11 PM] Blazinghand: I have pmed Palmar [4/13/2012 11:44:33 PM] Blazinghand: at this point I think i'm just gonna be silent until daybreak unless you need me to bus or something [4/13/2012 11:45:18 PM] Dirkzor: good. Don't bus today. It will be obvious once Tunkeg dies that you as scum would be anti his team mate. [4/13/2012 11:45:35 PM] Dirkzor: So basicly doing nothing leaves be pretty neutral so they can't find me through you [4/13/2012 11:45:42 PM] Dirkzor: leaves me* [4/13/2012 11:45:49 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:46:41 PM] Dirkzor: But I will be leaning you as scum and support radfeilds case. That will make radfeild even more town and hopefully me aswell by extension [4/13/2012 11:46:54 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:47:04 PM] Blazinghand: i won't respond to your or Rad until morning [4/13/2012 11:47:10 PM] Blazinghand: and D1 [4/13/2012 11:47:13 PM] Blazinghand: I guess I just won't talk [4/13/2012 11:47:15 PM] Blazinghand: since tunkeg will be dead [4/13/2012 11:47:18 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be claimed scum [4/13/2012 11:47:30 PM] Dirkzor: posting time! So fun being scum btw. First time I'm scum btw [4/13/2012 11:47:31 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:47:35 PM] Blazinghand: me too [4/13/2012 11:47:36 PM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/13/2012 11:49:21 PM] Blazinghand: oh at daybreak i'll post one final message [4/13/2012 11:49:23 PM] Blazinghand: "blow me town" [4/13/2012 11:49:28 PM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/13/2012 11:49:52 PM] Blazinghand: brb [4/13/2012 11:53:22 PM] Blazinghand: btw i'm blazinghand.736 on EU [4/13/2012 11:54:20 PM] Dirkzor: Im.. eh... I dont play [4/13/2012 11:54:27 PM] Blazinghand: oh [4/13/2012 11:54:28 PM] Blazinghand: lol [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Dirkzor: well... very rarely. [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Blazinghand: what brings you by TL, then? [4/13/2012 11:54:46 PM] Dirkzor: SC2 did... but mostly to watch [4/13/2012 11:55:19 PM] Blazinghand: cool [4/13/2012 11:55:23 PM] Blazinghand: i'm watching GSL right now [4/13/2012 11:55:56 PM] Dirkzor: yeah... I would be but i need to post Its going to get a big one[4/14/2012 12:01:23 AM] Blazinghand: another thought is you could support me really hard [4/14/2012 12:01:33 AM] Blazinghand: and then when i claim scum it'll be like "oh hey dirk must be town [4/14/2012 12:01:41 AM] Blazinghand: cause scum would know if tunkeg was gonna die" [4/14/2012 12:01:59 AM] Dirkzor: hmm... [4/14/2012 12:02:05 AM] Dirkzor: maybe [4/14/2012 12:02:49 AM] Dirkzor: I don't know. I just think I want to go into d1 without to much of a reputation. Then I should be able to argue that BL or mattchew is scummy.. [4/14/2012 12:02:55 AM] Blazinghand: true [4/14/2012 12:03:00 AM] Blazinghand: mattchew and BL are both scummy [4/14/2012 12:03:12 AM] Blazinghand: just throwing out another way you could get a little bit of towniness [4/14/2012 12:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: it's sorta a gambit though [4/14/2012 12:03:22 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 12:03:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll think about while posting =) [4/14/2012 12:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: Okay. Good morning =) (And sorry for drunk posting. Wasn't as bad as other players though ) What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions. On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us. But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me. Then he go to fake-claim going to bed (lol). BH comes in supporting the claim. On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind. On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up. I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts. Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to town. But some stands out: On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!") On April 14 2012 09:51 Tunkeg wrote: Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield. Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic. On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote: That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is. To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up. I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote. [4/14/2012 12:50:50 AM] Dirkzor: copy that to TL and read it. Tell me what you think [4/14/2012 12:50:57 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 12:51:02 AM] Dirkzor: (just dont fucking post it LOL) [4/14/2012 12:52:49 AM] Blazinghand: "But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game" [4/14/2012 12:52:51 AM] Blazinghand: I'd reword this [4/14/2012 12:53:48 AM] Blazinghand: and be like "a scum player wouldn't do this, this is a very bold move, as a town player would make" [4/14/2012 12:53:49 AM] Blazinghand: or something [4/14/2012 12:54:21 AM] Dirkzor: okay.. yeah.. [4/14/2012 12:54:54 AM] Blazinghand: " I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote." [4/14/2012 12:54:56 AM] Blazinghand: this is really good [4/14/2012 12:55:01 AM] Blazinghand: I like that you end with that paragraph [4/14/2012 12:55:07 AM] Blazinghand: overall this is a good post [4/14/2012 12:55:28 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you send it in before palmar triggers day post [4/14/2012 12:55:38 AM] Blazinghand: Day 1 is going to be very short [4/14/2012 12:55:42 AM] Blazinghand: i'll probably get instahammered [4/14/2012 12:55:46 AM] Blazinghand: btw [4/14/2012 12:55:54 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:55:58 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you vote for me as soon as tunkeg flips cop [4/14/2012 12:56:02 AM] Blazinghand: or at lest, quickly [4/14/2012 12:56:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:56:18 AM] Dirkzor: Who do you tihnk is the medic? [4/14/2012 12:56:26 AM] Blazinghand: hmmmmm [4/14/2012 12:56:27 AM] Dirkzor: if I could hit him n1 it would be insane [4/14/2012 12:56:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah if you hit the medic n1 we're in a good shape [4/14/2012 12:57:26 AM] Blazinghand: in any case, once i'm hammered I can't help you any more [4/14/2012 12:57:30 AM] Blazinghand: i'll become an observer [4/14/2012 12:57:36 AM] Blazinghand: bluelightz typically is quiet [4/14/2012 12:57:50 AM] Dirkzor: good for me. [4/14/2012 12:57:55 AM] Dirkzor: should be lynchable =) [4/14/2012 12:58:03 AM] Dirkzor: Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. [4/14/2012 12:58:07 AM] Blazinghand: I dont' think Radfield is the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:09 AM] Dirkzor: re-wrote it [4/14/2012 12:58:14 AM] Blazinghand: I think he'd be more quiet about his scum reads as the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:57 AM] Blazinghand: WBG might be [4/14/2012 12:59:33 AM] Dirkzor: its hard [4/14/2012 1:00:07 AM] Blazinghand: I like this new paragraph [4/14/2012 1:00:18 AM] Dirkzor: posted [4/14/2012 1:00:21 AM] Blazinghand: so i mean, as available "could be the medic" people [4/14/2012 1:00:27 AM] Blazinghand: we've got BL, JW, Rad, WBG [4/14/2012 1:00:31 AM] Blazinghand: Rad seems too aggressive [4/14/2012 1:00:36 AM] Blazinghand: I wouldn't shoot BL [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: because he's good to keep around [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: as a mislynch [4/14/2012 1:00:45 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:00:52 AM] Dirkzor: mattchew aswell [4/14/2012 1:00:57 AM] Dirkzor: with his stupid vote thingy [4/14/2012 1:00:58 AM] Blazinghand: oh I forgot about mattchew [4/14/2012 1:01:01 AM] Blazinghand: wait [4/14/2012 1:01:06 AM] Blazinghand: i thought the player loist was [4/14/2012 1:01:11 AM] Blazinghand: BL, JW, Rad, Tunkeg, WBG, you, me [4/14/2012 1:01:37 AM] Blazinghand: 7 players [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Blazinghand: so I'd say, keep BL around as mislynch material [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Dirkzor: it is lol [4/14/2012 1:02:37 AM] Dirkzor: everytime I'd written mattchew I meant johnnywup [4/14/2012 1:02:39 AM] Blazinghand: ah [4/14/2012 1:02:40 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 1:02:45 AM] Blazinghand: yeah, the big thing is [4/14/2012 1:02:48 AM] Blazinghand: if you can't tell who the medic is [4/14/2012 1:02:51 AM] Blazinghand: shoot JW [4/14/2012 1:02:58 AM] Blazinghand: I THINK WBG is the medic [4/14/2012 1:03:01 AM] Blazinghand: that's what my gut says [4/14/2012 1:03:10 AM] Blazinghand: but if WBG isn't the medic, the medic may be protecting him [4/14/2012 1:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: the medic will definitely protect him or radfield [4/14/2012 1:03:26 AM] Dirkzor: Think it will be rad who protected [4/14/2012 1:03:34 AM] Dirkzor: every night [4/14/2012 1:03:35 AM] Blazinghand: yeah rad will have a lot of town cred after i flip [4/14/2012 1:03:40 AM] Blazinghand: and i dont' think rad is medic [4/14/2012 1:03:42 AM] Blazinghand: so [4/14/2012 1:03:46 AM] Dirkzor: agree [4/14/2012 1:03:53 AM] Blazinghand: shooting WBG is probablyt he right move [4/14/2012 1:03:57 AM] Blazinghand: and JW and BL are both weak players [4/14/2012 1:04:02 AM] Blazinghand: making it hard to lynch you [4/14/2012 1:04:05 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 1:04:36 AM] Dirkzor: I think the ranking would be: rad WBG Me/Johnny BL in how good they are perceived [4/14/2012 1:05:04 AM] Blazinghand: sounds about right [4/14/2012 1:05:09 AM | Edited 1:05:13 AM] Blazinghand: JW will look bad after i flip [4/14/2012 1:05:38 AM] Dirkzor: Yeah. I'll push the thought about him basicly bussing you because he knew Tunkeg would die [4/14/2012 1:05:59 AM] Blazinghand: sounds like a good plan [4/14/2012 1:06:15 AM] Dirkzor: This is very interesting =) [4/14/2012 1:06:19 AM] Blazinghand: it's a fun setup [4/14/2012 1:06:21 AM] Blazinghand: very fast-paced [4/14/2012 1:06:31 AM] Dirkzor: hehe yeah :D [4/14/2012 1:09:20 AM] Dirkzor: And now: GSL! [4/14/2012 1:09:32 AM] Dirkzor: Naniwa made it trough!!! WOO! Did he play well? [4/14/2012 1:09:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah [4/14/2012 1:09:39 AM] Dirkzor: I was at work so couldn't watch [4/14/2012 1:09:51 AM] Blazinghand: i think the vod of game 1 is free [4/14/2012 1:10:10 AM] Blazinghand: I hope naniwa makes it to the Ro8 [4/14/2012 1:10:32 AM] Dirkzor: yeah.. Would be insane.. But i think he needs a PvP to do it... [4/14/2012 1:11:15 AM] Blazinghand: it really depends who's in his group in the 2nd group stages [4/14/2012 1:12:26 AM] Blazinghand: MC vs Inca happening atm [4/14/2012 1:12:40 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:13:48 AM] Dirkzor: i love pvp... so much action =) [4/14/2012 2:10:09 AM] Blazinghand: daybreak in about 30 minutes [4/14/2012 2:10:24 AM] Dirkzor: aye [4/14/2012 2:46:15 AM] Dirkzor: any thoughts about WBG now that he posted a bit? [4/14/2012 2:47:03 AM] Blazinghand: i mean, i have a townread on him [4/14/2012 2:47:13 AM] Dirkzor: obviously [4/14/2012 2:47:36 AM] Blazinghand: he's being very "town" [4/14/2012 2:47:43 AM] Blazinghand: I think he's not the medic [4/14/2012 2:47:44 AM] Blazinghand: and he anticipates being protected [4/14/2012 2:48:26 AM] Dirkzor: damn... I don't want the medic to be BL or Johnny. If they are and I try to get one of them lynched I have to counter claim [4/14/2012 2:49:55 AM] Blazinghand: " Well, I don't have the experience nor confidence to take that decision straight from the get go" -tunkeg [4/14/2012 2:50:00 AM] Blazinghand: man [4/14/2012 2:50:02 AM] Blazinghand: mannnn [4/14/2012 2:50:06 AM] Blazinghand: tunkeg playing such a bad cop [4/14/2012 2:50:15 AM] Dirkzor: hehe =) [4/14/2012 2:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: I'm sure if I should point out he is playing the newbie card.. [4/14/2012 2:51:22 AM] Blazinghand: remember he's gonna flip in like 5 minutes [4/14/2012 2:51:35 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... But i dont know that [4/14/2012 2:52:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll just stop posting.. I came out of n0 looking town i think. I made a good case, pushed discussion and with no bias... [4/14/2012 2:52:54 AM] Blazinghand: at this point [4/14/2012 2:52:58 AM] Blazinghand: just stay silent until the flip [4/14/2012 2:54:34 AM] Dirkzor: SUPER! [4/14/2012 2:54:44 AM] Dirkzor: he just pointed me out as a town read [4/14/2012 2:56:29 AM] Blazinghand: nice [4/14/2012 2:56:48 AM] Blazinghand: so you and Rad are basically gonna have a lot of town cred [4/14/2012 2:56:55 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 2:57:31 AM] Dirkzor: If i can just keep this going town have to lynch into WBG/BL/Johnny. I just hope our night kills goes through. [4/14/2012 2:57:47 AM] Blazinghand: it's pretty unlikely tunkeg got protected [4/14/2012 2:57:54 AM] Blazinghand: if he did, medic will claim and i'll get lynched D1 like normal [4/14/2012 2:58:03 AM] Blazinghand: and you'll have to shoot the medic N1 [4/14/2012 2:58:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... radfield pointed it out aswell as a "bad" option for scum [4/14/2012 3:09:28 AM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/14/2012 3:09:34 AM] Dirkzor: I laughed when I saw your post [4/14/2012 3:12:07 AM] Dirkzor: GG mate! Good claim. One of us had to do it at some point =) [4/14/2012 3:12:13 AM] Blazinghand: um [4/14/2012 3:12:15 AM] Blazinghand: just vote me now [4/14/2012 3:12:16 AM] Blazinghand: imo [4/14/2012 3:12:25 AM] Blazinghand: like [4/14/2012 3:12:31 AM] Blazinghand: no real discussion can happenw hile i'm alive [4/14/2012 3:14:30 AM] Dirkzor: Thats just not me. I'm trying to play this as I would as town. The others will vote you no worries... [4/14/2012 3:15:22 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 3:20:17 AM] Dirkzor: cluttering the thread is fine =) [4/14/2012 3:23:49 AM] Dirkzor: On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is? Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum. Only me that finds this suspecious? [4/14/2012 3:23:52 AM] Dirkzor: good or bad post? [4/14/2012 3:28:19 AM] Blazinghand: WBG's question is definitely suspicious [4/14/2012 3:28:24 AM] Blazinghand: calling him out for it is reasonable [4/14/2012 3:28:30 AM] Blazinghand: that being said [4/14/2012 3:28:36 AM] Blazinghand: the 2nd scum is now aq good thing to talk about [4/14/2012 3:28:40 AM] Blazinghand: like, as of tunkeg's flip [4/14/2012 3:28:46 AM] Blazinghand: so specficy that the question was bad then [4/14/2012 3:28:47 AM] Blazinghand: but good now [4/14/2012 3:28:53 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 3:28:54 AM] Blazinghand: and that asking it back then is what scum would do [4/14/2012 3:28:57 AM] Blazinghand: asking it NOW is what town does [4/14/2012 3:30:34 AM] Dirkzor: On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is? Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum. Only me that finds this suspicious? I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do... [4/14/2012 3:30:42 AM] Dirkzor: bolded the before in the first sentence aswell [4/14/2012 3:31:00 AM] Blazinghand: sounds good [4/14/2012 3:31:01 AM] Blazinghand: do it [4/14/2012 3:34:34 AM] Dirkzor: whatever medic tell you find just post it to me here. I'll make up my mind later if I want to try and kill the medic or whoever is less likely to be protected and not someone I can get a mislynch on [4/14/2012 3:36:16 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 3:36:21 AM] Blazinghand: i'm probably dead pretty soon [4/14/2012 3:36:25 AM] Blazinghand: after which i won't be able to help you any more [4/14/2012 3:36:48 AM] Dirkzor: thats why you should post just when you find them... :D (ofc stop when you die. No cheating! )[4/14/2012 3:37:10 AM] Dirkzor: BL could be the medic. Why would he talk about that the medic protected BH... [4/14/2012 3:37:14 AM] Dirkzor: makes no sense [4/14/2012 3:37:18 AM] Dirkzor: but then again BL never makes sense [4/14/2012 3:37:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah i wouldn't consider that a medic tell from BL [4/14/2012 3:37:42 AM] Blazinghand: he's unreadable to me [4/14/2012 3:40:57 AM] Dirkzor: lol BL called me town. [4/14/2012 3:58:09 AM] Blazinghand: dude BL is burying himself [4/14/2012 3:58:10 AM] Blazinghand: this is great [4/14/2012 3:58:13 AM] Blazinghand: just let him interact with wBG [4/14/2012 4:02:15 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 4:02:50 AM] Dirkzor: i'll be away for 30 in or so... Have to get some food. [4/14/2012 4:02:53 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 4:03:03 AM] Blazinghand: i don't really know what i'm doing in the thread [4/14/2012 4:03:11 AM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/14/2012 4:03:16 AM] Dirkzor: you're just fucking it up thats what... and its good fun :D [4/14/2012 4:09:26 AM] Blazinghand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827¤tpage=10#197 [4/14/2012 4:09:27 AM] Blazinghand: ROFL [4/14/2012 4:09:32 AM] Blazinghand: this is so good [4/14/2012 4:11:45 AM] Dirkzor: Rad think I'm town too... He doesn't mention me at all.. [4/14/2012 4:11:49 AM] Dirkzor: Well shopping brb [4/14/2012 4:12:09 AM] Blazinghand: kk Thanks to Palmar and Mattchew for hosting! This setup was awesome. | ||
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On April 18 2012 09:31 wherebugsgo wrote: dunno why radfield wasn't protected either, that was strange. yeah I consider that JW's only real mistake. radfield had good reads all game and basically forced us to shoot tunkeg n0. Even if there's some wifom floating around and you think scum isn't gonna shoot rad, it's worth it to protect a valuable town player like him. | ||
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On April 18 2012 09:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: If you wanted to use another line of reasoning, if your team was bluelightz/blazinghand...would you really sacrifice blazinghand to out the cop night 0 instead of bluelightz? I think not. Good reasoning. If I were on a team with BL, I'd have him claim (and make the sacrifice if necessary) and try to keep distance. Dirk is basically a better player than me, so it would make sense for me to claim. That being said, I just claimed because Dirk wasn't awake yet, and I was bored. lol. | ||
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On April 18 2012 09:49 johnnywup wrote: yeah gg blazing hope you think im at least somewhat less of an idiot now  We've come a long way from: On March 27 2012 13:26 johnnywup wrote: I don't think you're mafia, blazing, because no mafia would be so stupid to post something so stupid. At least I think. Utterly garbage posting so far. On March 27 2012 14:03 Blazinghand wrote: ##vote: johnnywup I'd say "come at me bro" but your argumentation skills are so benign I feel like any "pressure" you put on me will only serve to exonerate me. POP QUIZ: Which player in the above scenario was town? + Show Spoiler [answer] + Both I think you should have saved Rad in the end, but hindsight is 20/20. It's fairly reasonable to expect scum to shoot Dirk if BL is scum? I guess. I feel like scum BL would have shot Rad too in that situation, or maybe deliberately not shot him since it would be obvious he'd shoot him, in which case saving Dirk would be the right move. | ||
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On April 18 2012 23:50 chaoser wrote: I love games like this, can we have more of them?! I concur. Thanks again to Palmar for hosting and Mattchew for + Show Spoiler + just kidding mattchewAlso looking back on it I think Bluelightz was playing to his "town" meta as opposed to his scum meta. He's one of those players who you have to look at his previous games to read him, or else he's just unreadable but if you DO look at his meta, he's readable. On April 18 2012 21:21 opisska wrote: And as for the randomness: I agree that sometimes, you can just analyze the game. But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it (if the setup is complex with many roles, maybe sacrifice a couple of players to negate these roles or waste their time, such as the cop CC in this game). If some mafia do not do anything to help their cause, then the shooting is completely random. wrong: mafia will not shoot themselves. seriously though if you think this game is so easy, you're wrong. people still play it and work to become better at it. | ||
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On April 19 2012 02:54 wherebugsgo wrote: I fail to see at all how this win was random; 3 townies in a row failed to see who the scum was between 2 players, one townie failed to establish himself, and one scum played well enough to fool all of them. It's not random that we though Radfield was town or Blazinghand scum. There were specific reasons for everything that happened this game and if you were reading it clearly you would know that. Don't discredit the play of the participants by calling the outcome random. In fact, I forgot to mention in the post-game discussion: mad props to Radfield for basically shitting on my n0 play and forcing us to shoot Tunkeg. It moved us from a "we can get lynched once and still be alive" situation to a very grim one. | ||
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If I were a DT I wouldn't crumb my actions before the night (unless there was some mechanic that made it advantageous to do so) but would crumb my results each day, so that later on when I claim (or if I should be NKed) people can find out / confirm my results. At least, that's the plan if I ever roll a dT. | ||
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On April 19 2012 04:54 johnnywup wrote: can you give me an example of a post you breadcrumbed of you saving someone that night? for reference :o OK I can't find my N1 crumb but here's my N2 crumb from Student Mafia, in which I was a Doctor: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=47#933 | ||
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On April 19 2012 05:04 johnnywup wrote: it's not obvious to me, who were you breadcrumbing that you were going to heal? Velinath. On December 10 2011 09:42 Blazinghand wrote: MJY: Just because Veli attacked bad posts a lot doesn't necessarily make him town. Keep your eye on him as always, guys. Also, it shouldn't be obvious unless it's pointed out-- that's kinda the point. | ||
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On April 19 2012 05:08 johnnywup wrote: That's what I thought. But pointing it out later it still seems ambiguous. I think there's no way to convince everyone that you are actually doc by quoting that post. ?? The point is that IF scum targets Velinath that night, AND I save him (they roleblocked me), AND there's a wagon on him later, AND I claim doc and say that veli must be town because I saved him (no vigis that game), then people won't lynch him. Also that crumb is utterly unambiguous in my eyes... I basically say I'm saving Veli. | ||
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On April 19 2012 05:11 johnnywup wrote: But I just wonder how that says that you're healing him. It stood out to me as the one you were talking about, but I wasn't sure why. Oh, I think I get the problem here. You don't know who Ma Jae-Yoon is! MJY is a transposition of MYJ, which is the initials for a famous brood war player whose handle is "sAviOr"-- he later became notorious in a match-fixing scandal. EDIT: this is something I would point out in my roleclaim | ||
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On April 19 2012 05:15 johnnywup wrote: Oh, i know who Ma Yae-Joon, I just didn't recognize MYJ as his initials, haha yeah that's cause it's MJY. I transposed them also so a google search wouldn't reveal it. crumbs need to be google proof | ||
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On April 19 2012 05:18 johnnywup wrote: That makes a LOT more sense. The sentence in itself didn't seem like a breadcrumb to me so that explains it :D yeah my goal with doctor breadcrumbs is for them to be utterly incomprehensible and unnoticeable unless I explicitly roleclaim and explain them. If you're a DT and there's some chance of getting NKed before you reveal your results, you probably want your crumbs to be find/understandable if someone knows you're a DT. Not 100% sure on that though having never been a DT. | ||
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(and I finally succeeded in following a mafia that enede up short enough to keep my attention!)
