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On April 14 2012 01:20 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:12 MrZentor wrote:
A medic didn't protect you; a jailor jailed you.
You guys were being inactive, voting for people without reasons, and expecting that to be okay, because you guys were "vets".
I don't regret shooting you. Not to argue pointless things but matchew jailed me to protect me. And you should regret it and learn from your mistakes. I don't give a fuck about being vet, I care about being right, as should you. And you should care about winning too. I really don't care about how people perceive me, I only do whatever I feel like it's going to help the most to win the current game. We can be nice to each other after the game is over. =)
The thing is that in that game, you DID care about being a vet and you abused it.
GM, as annoying as sand is being right now, I think ET seems the scummiest right now, so I would kill him, but it is really difficult to have an accurate read yet.
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On April 14 2012 22:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:16 froggynoddy wrote:On April 14 2012 08:59 grush57 wrote:
##Unvote Froggynoddy Only the chosen pmers know why.
##Vote GMarshal Think he will do the right thing, seems townie. Should I be worried? I think I'm going to vote Ace, simply because I don't like the Sandroba, GM voting for each other business. THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH NOT COURTLY ETIQUETTE!!! But seriously I don't like Sandroba's stance on PM-ing and the Captaincy in general. I also don't like GM's response to my question: On April 14 2012 07:07 GMarshal wrote:On April 14 2012 06:56 froggynoddy wrote:Ok, sorry for lack of activity, built a mobile donkey shelter and then went to restaurant... too much Cognac. Back to the game: Comparing campaigners content, I would like to vote for GM. He makes by far the most sense out of all those running for mayor. He isn't gimicky, he isnt super pro PM-ing (which admittedly has its uses late game, but seems to confuse the hell out of stuff early game), and his stance regarding 'enlightened despot' vs 'democrat' appeals to me. What I don't like is his vote on Sandroba. Similarlyto the premise 'push a lynch that you believe will most likely result in scum flip', our votes for Mayor should be 'who you think is most likely to summarily execute scum'. So my question to you (GM) is this: You don't know that Sandroba is town, if you are town then you know for sure that you are town, threrfore you are most likely to find scum. Therefore why vote for Sandroba unless he's your scumbuddy, I don't get it  . Because sandro is my strongest town read ^_^ Also I hardly ever vote for myself in elections, its not respectable. Its not a matter of logic, its a simple matter of if I can vote for the guy running against me and he votes for me, its the same net result, but its much more elegant. Is it stupid? Probably. I'm going to do it anyway. I don't see the Sandroba town thing, plus surely at this early stage the only town read that could be described as in any way strong is yourself. Also we should vote for the person who least wants the captaincy, far more likely to be town imo. ##Vote Ace Then why are you voting for Ace. You should be voting for a random person among the lurkers. They clearly don't want the captaincy, they're not even making a campaign! Or, if you don't like the lurkers, vote for Rayzor. He's managed to put his name forward and say he's a bad candidate in the same sentence! My bullshit detector is in overdrive here. Why are you voting for Ace?
Oh, so at least one of GM and Sand is scum.
Interesting..
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We really should start discussing lynch victims. -.-
I nominate Chaoser.
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I actually think Chaoser is the most innocent person here.
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I'll say my reasons when I want to convince you of it.
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On April 15 2012 02:55 grush57 wrote:
Mr Zentor is my scummiest read right now. He wanted to be captain, failed, wants to decide who to lynch, and is voting Ace because he wants Ace to vote Acrofales which is questioning him. Plus, he has to post a post saying that he is leaving, which there is no point to suggesting he is trying to be active seeming like a townie. Probably a puppet of a vet.
I nominated somebody; how is that wanting to decide who to lynch? I voted Ace because I dislike the idea of Sandroba or GM being Captain. I <3 Ace and would kill anybody who lynched him. Saying that I was "leaving" was a way to say that I wasn't going to make a case on Chaos.
On April 15 2012 02:55 chaoser wrote:
Still for a sandroba captaincy. I've been fairly active in PMs so that's why I haven't been posting in thread a lot
I want a lynch on zentor. I'm too lazy to summarize it so I'mma just copy/paste my reasons from a Skype convo
gahhhh, waiting for drh to get back to me is annoying. I'mma post it and if i get modkilled so be it
[1:06:58 PM] Chaosers: i'm ok with a zentor lynch
[1:08:02 PM] : because he wants to lynch you?
[1:08:17 PM] Chaosers: i didn't even know he wanted to lynch me
[1:08:18 PM] Chaosers: lol
[1:08:20 PM] Chaosers: "GM, as annoying as sand is being right now, I think ET seems the scummiest right now, so I would kill him, but it is really difficult to have an accurate read yet."
[1:08:24 PM] Chaosers: cause of that
[1:08:38 PM] Chaosers: and the fact that he tried to derail thread by talking about what happened in GoT
[1:09:08 PM] Chaosers: he's trying to get people to not trust sandroba
[1:09:12 PM] : ok. quite similar reasons to what i had for engaging him in conversation, lol
[1:09:15 PM] Chaosers: and running a "counter" campaign
[1:09:26 PM] Chaosers: based on being transparent
[1:09:36 PM] Chaosers: but then he says the exact same thing as sandro
[1:09:50 PM] Chaosers: but tries to sell it as if he's completely opposite him in stances
[1:10:12 PM] Chaosers: "i will follow town's vote for N1 lynch...unless I don't think they're right"
[1:12:39 PM] Chaosers: i'm on page 17
[1:12:51 PM] Chaosers: i think he's scummy and the best lynch for today
[1:12:56 PM] Chaosers: but even if he turns out to be not scum
[1:13:01 PM] Chaosers: it's still an ok lynch for me for night 1
[1:13:09 PM] Chaosers: cause he's being vry disruptive
[1:13:17 PM] Chaosers: and he's misrepresenting people
[1:18:14 PM] Chaosers: that's like the most scummy thing to do imo, misrepresneting people
Sandroba was the first to talk about what happened in GoT. Get your facts straight. Would you trust somebody who asks everybody to roleclaim to him? I think Sandroba is town, but he would be a terrible captain.
What I was doing was completely different than Sandroba. I was saying that if I didn't listen to town and lynched a non scum, I should be lynched. He was going to completely disregard town, lynch a townie, and expect no consequences.
In the bolded part, you already set it up so that it's a victory even though you know lynching will be killing a townsperson. It's okay if we lynch a townsperson every night, because they were being ""vry disruptive" and "misrepresneting people".
I randomly picked your name for a nomination for lynch to generate discussion, but now you look really scummy.
How was I misrepresenting people?
Hypocrite.
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On April 15 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
So since I wrote my last post, I've looked again at Mr.Zentor's brief run for captain, and rather than being suspicious it now seems downright scummy to me.
If you look at the context of his posts, they go like this.
He started his joke campaign near the beginning of the thread, when a lot of other people were starting joke campaigns - people including GMarshal, EchelonTee, and RazorFlash. A pretty good way to make an impression as being active without actually saying anything of value.
However, now look at his first "serious" campaign post. A few things look scummy to me.
First, there's the commitment to lynch whoever the thread picks, unless he's sure that someone else is scum. Now as other people have pointed out, that's a good scum move - the odds of the thread picking scum on day 1 are relatively low, and if they did pick scum, Zentor would be able to pick someone else. Sure, he would have to rationalize that the next day, but if he made a good enough case on whoever he did pick, it would give the scum team a better shot than just having whichever team member the thread chose killed with the day 1 lynch.
Also, it's worth noting that Zentor is one of the only people who brought up this idea of doing a poll - it wasn't being demanded by the thread. At the time that he posted, there was a debate going on between Sandroba, myself, and earlier others including Ace and l10f about whether or not the Captain should pledge to reveal all the information that came with the role - but there wasn't a consensus or even a movement towards demanding that the captain be democratic with the lynch. What I and, I think, others were asking for was a Captain who would listen to the thread's cases and explain the reasoning behind his choice for the lynch - but not someone who would just bow to the people. While that could be a reasonable sentiment, it's also exactly the kind of Captaincy that scum would want to have - one that doesn't give them any responsibility.
Now, let me note one other thing. When Zentor posted his four-point "serious campaign" post, changing from a joke candidate to a serious one, the captaincy race was a one-man show. Sandroba had four votes and no one else had more than one. GMarshal's post where he posted his skype info and indicated that he was running for real was within ten minutes before Zentor put up his post, and GMarshal still didn't have any votes. My contention is that this would have looked like the last shot for a scum candidate to get into the race. There was a very good chance that the election would have just snowballed into a coronation for Sandroba, instead of a competitive race. The timing of Zentor's entry as a serious candidate makes me think that he was put forward by the scum team in an effort to keep the race competitive, when it looked like Sandroba was going to run away with it. (Now let me say here that I'm not convinced that Sandroba's autocratic method is best, or even that he's town; that's why I'm voting for GMarshal. However, it looks unlikely that Sandroba and Zentor are both town, and I think Zentor is way scummier.)
After that one post about being a serious candidate, there were some other posts about the campaign, but Zentor seems to have trailed off with his campaign when it didn't pick up any momentum. However, he hasn't done anything really pro-town since that time, as people above have pointed out. But I wanted to focus on his campaign specifically, since I don't think it's been brought up enough and it smells really scummy to me.
In conclusion: Mr.Zentor is scum.
PS: As usual, I don't know whether or not other people have posted using faster methods as I type this post. Just to establish context, as I started typing this the last post I see in the thread is by risk.nuke about running the noob mini and studying for exams. Sorry if I got ninja'd anything here isn't relevant anymore.
Let me pick apart this argument line by line to show how retarded it is!
First, there's the commitment to lynch whoever the thread picks, unless he's sure that someone else is scum. Now as other people have pointed out, that's a good scum move - the odds of the thread picking scum on day 1 are relatively low, and if they did pick scum, Zentor would be able to pick someone else. Sure, he would have to rationalize that the next day, but if he made a good enough case on whoever he did pick, it would give the scum team a better shot than just having whichever team member the thread chose killed with the day 1 lynch.
The odds of a Captain lynching a scum day one(especially considering he may himself be scum) are also "relatively low".
The main point of my campaign post was to show that if I killed a non scum who the town hadn't picked, I should get killed ASAP. No exceptions. Why would scum set it up in such a way that he couldn't save his scum buddy?
Also, it's worth noting that Zentor is one of the only people who brought up this idea of doing a poll - it wasn't being demanded by the thread. At the time that he posted, there was a debate going on between Sandroba, myself, and earlier others including Ace and l10f about whether or not the Captain should pledge to reveal all the information that came with the role - but there wasn't a consensus or even a movement towards demanding that the captain be democratic with the lynch. What I and, I think, others were asking for was a Captain who would listen to the thread's cases and explain the reasoning behind his choice for the lynch - but not someone who would just bow to the people. While that could be a reasonable sentiment, it's also exactly the kind of Captaincy that scum would want to have - one that doesn't give them any responsibility.
No, the scum would want a Captaincy in which they can act like they listen to town, write a brief summary on why the town appears "scummy", and mislynch more than one townie.
What the scum wouldn't want is a Captaincy that is forced to follow the town. If you save your scum buddy, you die; if you don't save him, he dies.
Now, let me note one other thing. When Zentor posted his four-point "serious campaign" post, changing from a joke candidate to a serious one, the captaincy race was a one-man show. Sandroba had four votes and no one else had more than one. GMarshal's post where he posted his skype info and indicated that he was running for real was within ten minutes before Zentor put up his post, and GMarshal still didn't have any votes. My contention is that this would have looked like the last shot for a scum candidate to get into the race. There was a very good chance that the election would have just snowballed into a coronation for Sandroba, instead of a competitive race. The timing of Zentor's entry as a serious candidate makes me think that he was put forward by the scum team in an effort to keep the race competitive, when it looked like Sandroba was going to run away with it. (Now let me say here that I'm not convinced that Sandroba's autocratic method is best, or even that he's town; that's why I'm voting for GMarshal. However, it looks unlikely that Sandroba and Zentor are both town, and I think Zentor is way scummier.)
Anybody in Death Factory 2 should know how bad my scumplay is. Why would the scum choose me to run, especially considering there are ~6 of them? They should have at least one convincing Vet in there, whom everybody will blindly trust.
I think it's very likely that both Sandroba and I are town.
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Let me show you Chaoser's posts.
He attacks michaelthe for voting me for captain. He seems to forget that these votes aren't for the lynch.
On April 13 2012 09:55 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 09:51 michaelthe wrote:
I vote we start with a self-imposed "Accelerated Start". Everyone goto random.org and roll 1-30. You must vote for that person. You can change your vote to some one else but cannot simply unvote.
I rolled 23.
##Vote: MrZentor WTF is the point of this? No pressure, no direction, no stance taken by anyone. Hi Mafia. See, that's how to start a game. ##vote: michaelthe
He admits his fail and leaves.
On April 13 2012 09:58 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 09:56 grush57 wrote:On April 13 2012 09:55 chaoser wrote:On April 13 2012 09:51 michaelthe wrote:
I vote we start with a self-imposed "Accelerated Start". Everyone goto random.org and roll 1-30. You must vote for that person. You can change your vote to some one else but cannot simply unvote.
I rolled 23.
##Vote: MrZentor WTF is the point of this? No pressure, no direction, no stance taken by anyone. Hi Mafia. See, that's how to start a game. ##vote: michaelthe This vote is for the captain.... goddamnit...ok, i'mma go finish watching the heat/bulls game and then come back lol
He writes four, small, useless posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2012 10:05 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 09:59 GMarshal wrote:
GMarshal's campaign: Vote for me because I actually hit scum day 1. Have you ever actually won mayor and then hit scum day one? On April 13 2012 10:13 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 10:09 MrZentor wrote:If I am elected, I will let the people decide who I kill via an unofficial poll! Here's my totally not copy pasted speech for Layabout's vote! + Show Spoiler +Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. can't even put in the effort to write up your own thing. not mayor material imo. ##vote sandroba for captain On April 13 2012 13:07 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 12:33 Ace wrote:
I see the peasants are at play while the King is off fighting wars If by off fighting wars you meant watching the heats/bulls game and going: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 11:57 Ace wrote:
Floater going sideways away from the basket? o.0
This game is off the chain! Then yeah, I guess that's what happened On April 14 2012 10:51 chaoser wrote:
time to read
He then makes a ridiculous "case" riddled with stupidity and inaccuracies against me.
On April 15 2012 02:55 chaoser wrote:
Still for a sandroba captaincy. I've been fairly active in PMs so that's why I haven't been posting in thread a lot
I want a lynch on zentor. I'm too lazy to summarize it so I'mma just copy/paste my reasons from a Skype convo
gahhhh, waiting for drh to get back to me is annoying. I'mma post it and if i get modkilled so be it
[1:06:58 PM] Chaosers: i'm ok with a zentor lynch
[1:08:02 PM] : because he wants to lynch you?
[1:08:17 PM] Chaosers: i didn't even know he wanted to lynch me
[1:08:18 PM] Chaosers: lol
[1:08:20 PM] Chaosers: "GM, as annoying as sand is being right now, I think ET seems the scummiest right now, so I would kill him, but it is really difficult to have an accurate read yet."
[1:08:24 PM] Chaosers: cause of that
[1:08:38 PM] Chaosers: and the fact that he tried to derail thread by talking about what happened in GoT
[1:09:08 PM] Chaosers: he's trying to get people to not trust sandroba
[1:09:12 PM] : ok. quite similar reasons to what i had for engaging him in conversation, lol
[1:09:15 PM] Chaosers: and running a "counter" campaign
[1:09:26 PM] Chaosers: based on being transparent
[1:09:36 PM] Chaosers: but then he says the exact same thing as sandro
[1:09:50 PM] Chaosers: but tries to sell it as if he's completely opposite him in stances
[1:10:12 PM] Chaosers: "i will follow town's vote for N1 lynch...unless I don't think they're right"
[1:12:39 PM] Chaosers: i'm on page 17
[1:12:51 PM] Chaosers: i think he's scummy and the best lynch for today
[1:12:56 PM] Chaosers: but even if he turns out to be not scum
[1:13:01 PM] Chaosers: it's still an ok lynch for me for night 1
[1:13:09 PM] Chaosers: cause he's being vry disruptive
[1:13:17 PM] Chaosers: and he's misrepresenting people
[1:18:14 PM] Chaosers: that's like the most scummy thing to do imo, misrepresneting people
Seriously, that's it.
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On April 15 2012 04:08 chaoser wrote:yawn zentor, it's not me who you should be appealing to but rather one of the few people that are running for captain. This is a PM game after all. Posts in thread do not signal a person's activity. Your posts though, do show that you have been acting very scummy. Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 03:42 Kurumi wrote:On April 15 2012 03:37 chaoser wrote:On April 15 2012 03:36 Kurumi wrote:On April 15 2012 03:35 chaoser wrote:On April 15 2012 03:33 Kurumi wrote:On April 15 2012 03:31 Ace wrote:
Anyway we shouldn't be lynching people that are actually active at the moment. Get rid of the people not participating so far. I don't know how everyone is getting such good scum reads in such a short amount of time, but let's not kill off the people that are posting so quickly. This is a soft-defense of MrZentor. The thing is, it's a good idea for both Town and Scum to defend him. I don't see anything wrong with Zentor besides him losing some steam after GMarsh pressured him and his cryptic behaviour about chaoser. I agree that people who are speaking are not as good targets as people borderline lurking. isn't this also a soft defense? It is! I actually think that Zentor should not hang D1. Why shouldn't he? who would you rather be hanged? He nailed it himself Anybody in Death Factory 2 should know how bad my scumplay is. Why would the scum choose me to run, especially considering there are ~6 of them? They should have at least one convincing Vet in there, whom everybody will blindly trust. Besides nothing struck me so much from him to call him scum. I'd rather see layabout hang. He's in this magical range of not-so-active and not-so-inactive. He plays similar to his scum meta and does not jump into scumhunting until easy targets show up. He's mostly overly aggressive as Town. That's WIFOM though. Using bad play to excuse oneself? wtf...how does that make any sense? I'm playing too badly in this game to be scum is a ridiculous assertion. I hedged GoT game on that fact that people would overlook my team's bad play as "to bad to be mafia" and it worked. What do you think of his misrepresentation as well as his bullshit noncommittal stance on ET? And now he's only coming back to defend himself against allegations in a way that he's trying to paint everyone against him as somehow scummy.
1. How am I appealing you? I just posted how useless you've been this game.
2.Scum can easily say "oh, I didn't post at all the whole game, but I was sooo active in PMS". You need to prove you've been active, and a few lines of made up reasons that I'm scum doesn't cut it.
3. Honestly, I wasn't sure who was mafia at the time. Saying I'm scummy because I guessed wrong about who was scum in the early game is ridiculous.
4. The only person I've painted as scummy is you. You aren't everybody against me. Therefore I did not paint everybody against me as scummy.
DIDUCWUTIDIDTHAT
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I really hope you guys are right about PM land being active, because this thread is DEAD. :/
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And this is why I wanted the lynch to be decided by the people.
At least we would have reads from everyone.
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Also, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean...
The stubborn lovers speak. M A N C J
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Oh little risk, you need some humor in your dull, dull life.
I was joking about lynching Ace; I played around with the idea om the beginning few hours.
I would never let anybody actually lynch Ace; in fact if you had done your research correctly, you would have seen that I voted for him.
Chaoser was a person I randomly picked. I was bored and wanted some discussion!
Node was genuinely trying to be helpful, and people were mocking him for that. I'd be angry for if I didn't speak up.
You're really behind, Risk. My vote on Node was just because Sandroba and GM weren't suitable, and Ace hadn't come into the picture.
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On April 15 2012 10:25 risk.nuke wrote:
Okey, so you didn't throw it away on node. You threw it away on Ace. Big difference. Don't even try to tell me you believed Ace had a shot of beeing elected.
Here is a thought for you. Quit trying to generate discussion and discuss. There is plenty if you look for it.
hhhhhhhhyyyyyyyypppppppppppooooooooooocccccccrrrrrrrriiiiiittttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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1.The fact that you can't tell obvious humor and serious voting apart shows how idiotic you are for thinking I'm inconsistent.
2.I love you RISKKKKKKKKKK
Which do you think is serious and which humorous? Or do you think this post is an example of me being "inconsistent"?
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Um, the cryptic letters probably do tell of somebody's alignment, actually.
Also MrZentor posts a lot and he gets people to post, so I'd rather try to make people who don't post much like Errandor and Senjai post what they think.
That's my job, and that's what I do!
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I am talking exclusively about clues that exist in PMs you get from me. The message in the day post is a different animal entirely and you will be given no guidance or advice on figuring it out.
But I thought the message in the day post was special...
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EPT
