Been looking forward to this
Newbie Mini Mafia VI
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marvellosity
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Been looking forward to this | ||
marvellosity
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On March 30 2012 07:03 FourFace wrote: /in my ban should be expired by now. Happy B-day marvellosity キタ━━━(゜∀゜)━━━!!!!! Many thanks :D | ||
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On March 30 2012 20:47 KharadBanar wrote: If he expands the game, he'll probably update the OP accordingly. Thank you Sherlock | ||
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On March 30 2012 22:23 FourFace wrote: I already get scumvibes off you. Be prepared to get tunelled like a tortured traitor I like your style. | ||
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On March 30 2012 22:31 FourFace wrote: AHA! .. complimenting in order to gain sympathy. Obvious scumslip. I got you know! Aha! 'know' instead of 'now'. How can you 'know' unless you're scum? Eh?! | ||
marvellosity
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On March 30 2012 22:39 FourFace wrote: I don't know, lynch me! Gladly :D | ||
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On March 30 2012 23:14 FourFace wrote: BTW I want to make a couple of statements before we start in order for what I say to be irrelevant for your scumsearch later on. I am going to play for fun, I don't care about learning the game or playing "badly". This doesn't imply I haven't read the rules, OP, guides, past games, player meta; or that I won't read the whole thread if it gets larger than 15 pages. Because I have and I will, and I'm counting on everyone to do likewise. I am never going to insult you personally but I will most certainly tell you to your face if your posting style seems inefficient, total bullshit to me regardless of whether I think you're scum or not so I'm probably going to insult your role and style of play .. a lot, during this game. I can handle any sort of critique to my virtual online persona so I expect a little indifference from you too. I won't call your mom a whore or anything like that but even If I would, would you care? I'd be just another troll on the internets without any knowledge of your personal business, forget about it. Once the game starts if you plan on condescending people by giving them newbie advice, and reciting principles on how to play and what they should look for, talk excessively about the concept of lurking and lynching lurkers and generally calling people noobish or crazy .. you are going to make this game less fun for me not to mention you'd just repeat what thousands have said before. Which means I'm going to have to compensate by writing crazy fluff, that you might not be interested in reading, just to mimic your lack of efficiency and usefulness to town. So if you're town don't do that. If you're scum, don't do it either because I'll quite possibly vote to lynch you for it in the absence of more concrete scumreads. That's all I want to say .. my motivation, my self-imposed boundaries and what pisses me off the most. Oh and GL HF GG everyone Can't wait to rub you up the wrong way, buddy | ||
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On March 30 2012 23:34 Radfield wrote: You're right! It makes no sense! You passed the test! ..... Holy shit Radfield scumslip | ||
marvellosity
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So far my best scumread is on Fourface who is admitting to be scum | ||
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On March 31 2012 23:42 strongandbig wrote: You never know... Once a predator gets the taste for human flesh, it's hunger will never be slaked... Imo, therapist's euthanasia threat is so scummy he can't possibly be scum, no one would say something like that before going to actually murder someone... Unless that's exactly wha he wants us to think and he really is scum, and is hiding in plain sight... Ugh! Too meta, it's getting self-regressive! Take it to first order, maybe. Lynch ALL the people! | ||
marvellosity
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On April 01 2012 00:40 FourFace wrote: So he's either confirmed town, obvious scum or something in between these two. It's a start 6 pages in and all we've managed so far is joviality and sarcasm. This bodes well. | ||
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On April 01 2012 01:12 FourFace wrote: Marv aren't you supposed to be white water rafting or something? I've just turned 27. I'm too old for that sort of thing. Currently I am drinking some bevvies in preparation for a nice dinner followed by inappropriate clubbing. | ||
marvellosity
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On April 01 2012 10:34 FourFace wrote: There are 3 mafia in this game? So weird, especially the need for you to come clean like that with noone really poking you. I feel like I need to give you some newbie advice at this point .. as scum you should never admit you're scum not even seconds before you get lynched. True story There are two. Also, I am hungover. That is all | ||
marvellosity
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Unrelatedly, I got a Nexus birthday cake! ##Vote: Solohan50 | ||
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On April 01 2012 23:59 FourFace wrote: true, but I wouldn't expect something useful from people who aren't dedicated to make at least 5 posts per 48 hour day cycle, especially people from first world countries who are basking in constant internet access. Is it so hard to flick out your iphone while you're taking a piss? And begging lurkers to post is just one of the most repugnant aspects of modern forum mafia play. I say fuck the lurkers let's lynch this guy HiroPro Your case against Hiro seems to be "we might get some information from it". I would say that is pretty much a worse reason than ours. | ||
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On April 02 2012 00:25 FourFace wrote: Well first of all .. nobody is really lurking. Everybody posted something, what do you want them to do if there is nothing to discuss on day1. Besides you two .. nobody accused the lurkers yet so if you give them some time they will post something and you'll be like yeah that's legit, except they could technically be posting anything. Nobody except me and Kohbee were of any use to town as of yet simply because we are consciously following an established strategy to get discussion going and seem to be getting cockblocked at each step by soulless, reactive and predictable posting. Would any of you have posted anything if it wasn't for me and Kohbee? I seriously doubt it. Marv how bout taking your thumb out of your ass and start cooperating with my policy shit or jumb on the bandwagon along with me and my buddy Kohbee so people don't think you're just a zombie running towards a pipebomb thrown by KB. Lynching lurkers on day 1 is so booooring Jesus. And KB for the love of God stop being so reactive. If you want to be useful to town you got to start your own trademark observation, get a niche so we can count on you to give your opinion on that particular aspect when we need to discuss it. Let me criticize your ideas for once. But my thumb feels good in my ass. If you have any sort of case against Hiro, I'm listening. | ||
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On April 02 2012 00:50 FourFace wrote: I am officially withholding some reads from you guys now. I'm also fairly interested in what Kohbee and everybody else thinks about strongandbig including Therapist Stupid post of the thread award. As you asked, I looked at strongandbig's filter. Looks like he was just calling Kohbee out and he's since stuck to his guns without posting too much. Only thing that read a little odd to me was On April 01 2012 04:18 strongandbig wrote: I'm not going to vote yet - when do we need to vote by anyway? Did the deadline get changed or not - anyway, I'm not going to vote yet, but I think we should watch out for random accusations. | ||
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On April 02 2012 01:17 omnomMuffins wrote: Stupid question, how do I read filters? In the Player List in the 2nd post, just click a name | ||
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On April 02 2012 01:32 FourFace wrote: there's a link in the top right corner of every post that says filter. Above it theres a # which will teleport you back to the thread where it was posted. Marv, calling something stupid and expect someone to know how you came to that conclusion is one of those things I hate most about this game. Am I supposed to read your mind? I think you're gay so I won't even try to understand you. I have to explain why a supposed townie not telling people their reads in Mafia is stupid? Ok, I take it back. Now you tell me why it's a good idea. What has being gay got to to with understanding people? O.o | ||
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On April 02 2012 01:40 FourFace wrote: you do have to explain because it's fairly simple for me to understand why I did it. I want to save it up for when I want to lynch the guy. It's not the theory of relativity but tell me why you think it should surpass you liking how your thumb feels in your ass. In case you hadn't noticed this is a team-game. You keeping things to yourself doesn't help the rest of us. ##Unvote: Solohan50 ##Vote: Fourface I'm with Muffins. I'm tired of you being a dick. | ||
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On April 02 2012 02:18 Kohbee wrote: There is a lot of fail going on in this thread right now. Withholding information from town is NOT scum behavior. keeping town on a need to know basis is. I don't think that fourface is a good lynch at all. I also think that hiropro is town and would also be a bad lynch. There has literally been extremely little said so far in the thread. However one thing of note is marvellosity's willingness to switch his vote to whatever bandwagon he thinks will start up. The solohan50 lynch is something I was thinking about before catching up on the thread. There has been very little of value posted thusfar in the thread and he is completely inactive. IMO he has like a 30-40% chance of flipping scum and if not, we lose nothing. So far I only have town reads on a couple people. Holy Moly My vote on Fourface is more a protest about him being a douchebag. I still think we should lynch Solohan, as he still hasn't posted | ||
marvellosity
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On April 02 2012 02:25 FourFace wrote: you don't have to follow up with the name btw. I believe ##unvote is sufficient. (i can't vote for myself anyway :|, forgot about that) I thought we established the rules said you could | ||
marvellosity
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So Solohan had unfortunate internet problems, and although Fourface has annoyed the poop out of me I don't particularly get a scumread off him. As I'm finally home now I will take a look at some filters and see what I can come up with. | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:07 FourFace wrote: And you feel the need to say this now? Why did he call my post the stupidest thing in this thread? I would never start to offend someone but if he clearly intends to mock me I just can't stfu, I can't I'm sorry. You seem to not understand how you sound and come across. You went off on one at someone else on the thread earlier just because they called an idea stupid. But when you're talking about gay this and finger in my ass that, you're being way ruder than anyone has been to you. Just think before you post please. | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:24 FourFace wrote: EBWOB: yes it would damnit FF think. Instrument. Instrument. We can lynch ... hmmm yeah I'd vote for Hiro the scardycat. I definitely would. Therapist .. who is he voting for. He's still voting for Kohbee .. that guy's got balls hhaahaha Conclusion. Wasted day 1. I can not account for anything if Therapist happens to get lynched and he flips town .. because it was just a lowsy Chainsaw defence. I've had some tells on Kohbee though. Wow. I'm just gonna post this and see what others are saying Why do you think Hiro? He defended your position without being prompted to, I don't think he'd feel the need to if he were mafia. On April 02 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote: To the people voting FourFace, how does that make any sense. FourFace has been one of the few people to try to get something going. Mafia would never try to lead the way FourFace is. Mafia lurk and try to remain hidden. | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:37 Kohbee wrote: no. can we get back to talking about marvel and therapist Unlike therapist, I would like to defend myself a little bit. Voting on Fourface was silly but he was being very annoying and I never intended for it to be a real vote. I still think that my vote for Solohan at the time was a solid one. Without having any solid scum read, having my vote on someone who hadn't posted seemed like a decent way forward. Meanwhile I have been through everyone's filters and I'm struggling. I'm leaning towards Kohbee, his treatment of therapist has been very strange. Take a look at therapist's filter and tell me what's scummy in there. I also didn't understand Kohbee's initial strange accusation against HiroPro, who incidentally has seemed quite townie since. | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:49 Kohbee wrote: tbh I don't have any strong scum reads. Mostly I have a few town reads who I will not let get lynched today. Other than that Idk, all 3 of strong marvel and therapist are good lynches imo today ##vote therapist Who do you have good town reads on and why? | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:53 Kohbee wrote: There is no reason to post this. It will provide a kill list to scum. I would rather post this at the end of night deadline. Why do you want to know this? Scum already know who all the townies are, and presumably they will bump off either those who generally they think pose the greatest threat, or those who were somehow on the right track. I'd like to know because I'd like to know how and why you think, and to open up other avenues in my own thought process (as mentioned before, I went through everyone's filters and my reads were wishy washy :/) | ||
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On April 02 2012 08:47 KharadBanar wrote: If there's another blue in town he can still be protected. If anyone else is ready to take his vote off Kohbee, I'm ready to follow unless I really don't agree with the new vote. I think Therapist is a more likely mafia than Kohbee, just about. We're running out of time and I don't really know what to do. This could just be a desperate ploy from a Kohbee mafia as he's about to die, or he could be telling the truth. Therapist has posted quite cleverly but much less. I'm open for anyone with some strong leadership because apparently that isn't me atm :/ ##Vote: Therapist | ||
marvellosity
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##Vote: Therapist. | ||
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On April 02 2012 08:53 Kohbee wrote: marvel you magnificent bastard since when are you town? I've been town all along, I just haven't done a very good job of showing it. | ||
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On April 02 2012 09:00 Solohan50 wrote: I think this smells too much like desperation on Kohbee's part. It's a little too convenient that the top pick for Mafia is not only town, but also a blue. I'm keeping my vote right where it is. You might well be right. But imo Kohbee has done more for town so far than therapist. If Kohbee is mafia he must be laughing so hard at me right now | ||
marvellosity
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Ok let's think. Therapist is townie, and if Kohbee is telling the truth, he is blue cop. If that is the case, the clear play for mafia is to hit Kohbee. Mafia could go for the double bluff and not hit Kohbee, but if he's the cop it's way too risky because he could find out their alignment. If Kohbee is lying, then he's mafia. And if Kohbee is mafia, then I think we can say without doubt he won't be killing himself. So we should know at the end of the night what is what. I think I might have done something stupid in voting for Therapist, because Kohbee roleclaiming is a way of signing his own death warrant, so we should have just lynched him anyway. Le sigh | ||
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Plus we don't even know if we have a doc or jailer on our team should we actually even agree you should be protected. | ||
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It's more that I'd like to reach a consensus on it, not that what you said makes no sense. As it stands, your blueclaim and therapist's lynch at the end of Day 1 seem to be the first big pivotal moment in this game (which I'm well aware I contributed to by voting therapist at the end). | ||
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On April 02 2012 22:26 Kohbee wrote: Here's some logic. You can lynch me and watch me flip blue. Or you can listen to me and lynch solohan, strong and/or omnomnom. These 3 are most likely your scum team. Here is why. If scum had a chance to lynch a blue day 1 they are certainly not going to move off of it. If they wanted to save me to give themselves some "cred" they would have probably done it differently. Fourface I believe you cleared yourself by switching off of me thus making sure I was not lynched. You also post like you care about the game but not what others think about you. which is good No one should doubt KB being town he has played far too openly and actively this game to be scum. Hiropro was town before voting therapist but made himself more clear when he came in, argued against my lynch and voted therapist. (He is the only one I am still a little on the fence about but for now it is probably safer to assume he is scum) Marvel was high on my scum list, but there is no way a scum player would be the finisher to saving a blue's lynch. Solohan lurked (wasnt online w.e) the entire day comes into the thread blazing with accusations at me that were baseless and stupid. Strong has been posting scummy all game. He is rather defensive and he tries to create different meanings, that favor his opinions, from players posts Omnomnom doesn't give a shit about reading the thread. This could be because of ONOG, but it also could be because of him being scum and watching the town have little to no pressure on him. If you are blue I'm not quite sure how this makes sense. Hiro came in and said your lynch was stupid given past posting behaviour on the thread, and he could probably have got you lynched if he'd come down firmly the other way. | ||
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On April 02 2012 23:00 KharadBanar wrote: Can we please wait for the night to develop before we get deeper into analysis here? If there is a medic or jailkeeper, they will probably know what to do by now. When we have the additional information of who did or did not get nightkilled this may well be quite a bit easier to understand. The problem is there are so many possibilities. 1) A random townie gets killed. This could mean Kohbee is scum and they just decided to off someone. It could also mean that Kohbee is not scum, and mafia assumed that as town has a 2/3 chance of having a doc or jailer, they would just kill someone else and roleblock Kohbee. 2) Kohbee gets killed. This is clearest case as then of course Kohbee is not scum. It also PROBABLY (but not definitely) means we don't have a doc/jailkeeper as they'd likely protect Kohbee. 3) No-one gets killed. This could mean Mafia tried to hit Kohbee but he was protected. It could also mean Kohbee is mafia and mafia decided to hit no-one to make Kohbee less suspicious (that doesn't seem like a great outcome for mafia, not getting a kill). Actually now I've listed some options, information will be gleaned one way or another. Worryingly it seems 1) is the best mafia play, because it doesn't tell us much about who is mafia at all. | ||
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1) I did not have a clue who to vote for. 2) I was desperately trying to get my offrace Terran account promoted to diamond. | ||
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http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3223088/1/JrKlondike/ And if you desperately, desperately want I can provide replays, but I fear that may be going a little far. As with regards to my voting, my vote on Solohan was eminently sensible imo and you were pissing me off mightily at the time. As for the final, slightly more sensible question: again, if you look at my filter you will see my misgivings and uncertainties about my vote. Anyway, can we move on to something a little more... productive? | ||
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On April 03 2012 02:23 Kohbee wrote: If you are town this is beyond stupid. all you will do is out a doc or jailor if there is one. Stop throwing out your easy-win plans. Also mafia can just counter-claim and then we're even more confused than before | ||
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Your plan with everyone claiming roles is literally the worst plan ever invented in TL Mafia. | ||
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On April 03 2012 05:43 HiroPro wrote: Marvelosity, you said that you had no idea who to vote for. I don't believe that at all. If you didn't know, there was no way you would have switched votes right when it mattered the most. What are your reads? My vote history was Solohan (lurker) -> Fourface (protest) -> no-one -> Therapist So it wasn't the case of a last minute switch, it was a case that I had to choose between two options to lynch at the time. I also said at the time that I thought therapist was slightly townie, but he had slightly more of a chance of being mafia, which I now believe to be probably not true; at least from my perspective Kohbee claiming blue could have been a desperate scum claim (I appreciated this); what I did not appreciate until a little later was that claiming blue as the blue was not a good idea anyway. I don't like omnom's posting, if he spent half as much time making a real post as he has apologising for not doing so, we might have actually got SOMETHING from him by now. Maybe depending on the night's actions, I think there is possibly a case against kohbee. I don't think kohbee/therapist really had any case on each other, it started so early based on so little. Therapist was at least consistent and we know he didn't have adverse motives, but he suffered from a lack of posting (that is why I chose to vote therapist at the time). Fourface is either the ballsiest mafia ever but the much more likely read is that he's town. I think he has been too spammy (put-downs, pointless questions) and also his blue claim plan is just a terrible town play... but I don't think mafia could be as ballsy as to suggest it, so town. He's also going after me quite a bit which ironically makes him more town in my eyes - if he were mafia, I can't say he should be seeing me as a threat, as my play hasn't been great so far, so he'd have no reason to target me. There has been some confusing posting in the Night, but I'm not inclined to heavily sift through filters until we know the result of the Night actions. | ||
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On April 03 2012 09:35 omnomMuffins wrote: What we all need to realize right now is that with the "cop" roleblocked, we will not be able to count on any outside help. The only people who know anything are the mafia. The rest is pure speculation. Unfortunately we don't get anywhere without speculation and discussion. If Kohbee is lying and he's the scum, we still have a cop out there somewhere. Gonna have to take a look through the thread and his filter and try to make a read on him. | ||
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" On April 03 2012 22:52 strongandbig wrote: Could someone give me the case against therapist? So far it seems to me like the case is that he went after Kohbee for going after hiropro, which makes him suspicious because hiropro might be his mafia teammate. I can see that being a legitimate argument, but I'm not persuaded by it; as I said above, the scum explanation for kohbee's early vote is just as strong as the town explanation in my opinion, and I could also just be the fact that therapist jumped to that conclusion. As therapist flipped townie, I couldn't see why you would cast doubt on his vote when it was a convenient bandwagon. At the moment, I have two possible scum reads, one expected, one perhaps not - but I'd like to start with Kohbee, the expected. Some of his opening flippant comments. To Therapist: "you were my 2nd scum team member. Thanks for confirming to me." "I don't talk to scum" I find his whole obsession with therapist rather odd. He seemed quite convinced early on for no reason. He also lashed out at strongandbig because he voted for him (so my notes are telling me, hope I'm right). The blue claim was also just... ugh. Bad town play, or scum play. I also really don't like the following On April 02 2012 05:53 Kohbee wrote: There is no reason to post this. It will provide a kill list to scum. I would rather post this at the end of night deadline. Why do you want to know this? Provide a kill list to scum? Why does scum need Kohbee's town reads for a kill list?! They know who all the townies are. I really really find this answer scummy. | ||
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On April 04 2012 09:28 HiroPro wrote: The biggest thing against omnom for me is that he seems to not care about actually looking for scum. The quotes are from omnom's posts arguing against FourFace and Kohbee. Should people be posting rudely? No. But posting rudely has nothing to do with being mafia. While not looking for mafia is definiteley a characteristic of scum. While I agree with you, it just feels like Kohbee has done it more. Certainly Kohbee was giving as good as he got in the last one, and Fourface was being a total douche at the time. I will have to go over the filters again, I went over everyone's about 8 or 9 hours ago (whenever i posted on kohbee) but tells may have come up in the meanwhile. My notes say I had a pretty null read on omnom at the time. | ||
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You then go on to 'explain' that you were not going after Therapist the whole day, before then demonstrating you kinda were. You say your first two posts were to "shut him up" - nonetheless you made them, and you made them in a non-productive, pointless way. Then as you point out yourself as well, you say 3 times later on that we should be looking at therapist, and then you vote for him. If a vote for him plus mentioning you think he's scummy AT least 5 times doesn't warrant Solohan saying you were on therapist's back all day, I don't know what does. | ||
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You've pointed fingers at almost everybody in the game. Almost your whole filter reads to me as creating a bad town atmosphere (various OMGUS, attacks, etc). You've sown confusion where there didn't have to be any, pointed fingers, and with your arguments with Fourface and omnom totally derailed town discussion. You roleclaimed blue in a terrible fashion for town; this could be scummy play or bad townie play, but together with the rest of your posts clearly leans towards a desperate scum move. The first guy to consistently attack you in the thread, therapist, wound up a dead townie. The 2nd guy, Fourface, who attacked you, wounded up killed. Now Solohan, the next guy who's consistently on your back, is who you're trying to make the 3rd dead guy based on a silly case with his wording of his posts (which came across clearly enough to me). Of secondary consideration here is the large amount of information we get from a Kohbee lynch. As Fourface handily pointed out earlier, we can already eliminate several Kohbee + someone else combinations. If/when Kohbee flips scum, we already have a big head start on scum #2. If Kohbee miraculously flips as blue cop, again the information is vast. Kohbee is scum and people should vote for him. ##Vote: Kohbee | ||
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On April 04 2012 12:04 Kohbee wrote: Aggression is not a scum trait. Also, Fourface literally saved me from being lynched. Both you and solo have now used fourface against me, which I find really weird. That is some serious WIFOM you guys are bringing up. Someone I called town (the entire game i might add) got killed by scum and flippd town, this now someone helps the case against me being town? If we are going to do WIFOM Why would I call fourface town when others wanted to lynch him and I argued out against them. To say I consistantly attacked therapist is a HUGE overstatement. one more thing What? If I flip blue cop, you and solohan have some SERIOUS explaining to do, don't try and act like my mislynch doesn't have reprecussions You leave out 95% of my valid arguments to strike back on non-points. I did not say you consistently attacked therapist, I said he attacked you. My point about Fourface was that he attacked you, not the other way round. I also nowhere tried to act like you flipping blue would have no repercussions (how is me saying the information would be vast = no repurcussions??) I am pretty certain you will not flip blue, and for the whole plethora of reasons already outlined, you are scum. | ||
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Responsibility for my actions? You are the first person I'm pushing hard for a lynch, Kohbee. I am well aware that if you get lynched and you flip blue, I will be #1 target. I think your case against me is weak. I have no idea why I would speculate about mafia actions if I were mafia. At the end of Day 1, therapist was not posing a particular threat to mafia (unless it's you!), where as you definitely had the potential to do so (much more active posting). Yet it was my vote that condemned therapist and saved you. I just don't see how you can reconcile yourself to the fact that if I were mafia I wouldn't take the FREE BLUE LYNCH on day 1. I agree with you that Solohan a) hasn't posted enough, b) has tunneled on you (I find one post only where he makes 2 reads on other people). But for me, this doesn't come close to comparing to On April 04 2012 11:45 marvellosity wrote: You've pointed fingers at almost everybody in the game. Almost your whole filter reads to me as creating a bad town atmosphere (various OMGUS, attacks, etc). You've sown confusion where there didn't have to be any, pointed fingers, and with your arguments with Fourface and omnom totally derailed town discussion. You roleclaimed blue in a terrible fashion for town; this could be scummy play or bad townie play, but together with the rest of your posts clearly leans towards a desperate scum move. | ||
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On April 04 2012 23:54 strongandbig wrote: That said - I agree that if you do turn out to be blue, then marvellosity looks very suspicious. Additionally, there's another possibility which I hadn't considered earlier - that you and hiro could both be scum, and the random vote was an early distance attempt. This is added to by the fact that I don't see why "not caring that someone is voting for you" is a town reaction, especially in a newbie game. 1) Agreed 2) had crossed my mind before. But in my mind I didn't make it stick because of Hiro's posting pattern. Firstly Hiro totally ignores Kohbee's vote at him. Then On April 02 2012 08:49 HiroPro wrote: What on earth is going on? Why on earth are we lynching one of the most pro-town people. Therapist's main contribution has been imagining a ridiculous WIFOM scenario and people are voting for Kohbee!!! Unvote: Solohan50 ##Vote: Therapist. This seemed rather an impassioned defence of Kohbee, someone who had accused him earlier. I don't know what his justification for calling Kohbee one of the most pro-town people was either. BUT, subsequently, Hiro cast doubt on Kohbee's posting: On April 03 2012 06:04 HiroPro wrote: FourFace made a post saying that you should stop making arguments based on the hypothetical that you are not mafia. And what did you do..... Your very next post was about how when you get lynched and flip blue, solohan and strong should be lynched. That kind of post isn't productive. It doesn't get us any closer to figuring out whether or not you are scum. On April 03 2012 06:10 HiroPro wrote: Before you claimed cop, you posted reads based on what people posted and acted like. Now? Everything's "Hey guys, I'm cop, therefore these individuals are suspicious." Which of these behaviors do you think helps town more? On April 03 2012 06:17 HiroPro wrote: The only people who know whether or not this is true are yourself and mafia. On April 04 2012 07:58 HiroPro wrote: Kohbee - On the first day of posting Marvel pressed you for your reads on town and you replied Is there a reason that you never posted anything like this at the end of first night? Because of this, I don't see Hiro as Kohbee's scumbuddy. | ||
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On April 05 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote: With only one mislynch left until LYLO, we can't afford to think like that. This... I was reading the Sum of all Fears thread (or maybe one of its QTs) and wiser players than me basically said that a bad townie is still a townie. It was pointed out that ultimately Mafia is a numbers game, and what is needed for victory is kill mafia and keep townies. If Solohan is not town it IS a loss, we are down one more team-member, plus we'd get much less info from his death than Kohbee's death. Kohbee is still scum. If town wants to win this game, they need to be voting with me. | ||
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Is the case on Solohan so strong that all you guys voted for him and Kohbee is totally convinced he's scum? What am I missing? Why is it him? | ||
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On April 05 2012 09:45 KharadBanar wrote: marvellosity, since you asked I'll elaborate a bit on why Kohbee and I had such a strong suspicion of Solohan50 (should have posted this before lynch but oh well): If you read his filter, you'll see:
Solohan50, I think you had enough chances to explain yourself and I'm now pretty set in my opinion. I am however listening to everything you say, if only to get more scum tells. But if you manage to get REALLY convincing (i.e. it's nigh on impossible) perhaps you can sway my vote tomorrow. You see, this is why I'm both upset and angry about how this lynch went down. Why couldn't you have presented a case like this before? A good list of points followed by reasoning. All I had from you or Hiro was (paraphrasing) "I think Kohbee's got better", "I'm not convinced Kohbee is scum", "Solohan is lurky and has tunneled on Kohbee". How is that meant to convince anyone? And then Kohbee's post before he died was the most townie thing I saw from him all game, but of course it was too late, so I wish he'd just defended himself differently/better. ANYWAY, now that I've vented a little bit, town has its solution. Everyone in town needs to make sure they're talking, and they're making their points clearly. Town can still win this, but only if every townie member is active, makes reads, and tries to flush out scum. I'm gonna have to rehash and reread everything in this thread, because I think I was viewing everything and everyone with the conviction that Kohbee was scum. So, expect some reads and conversation from me a bit later. | ||
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On April 05 2012 23:18 strongandbig wrote: Ugh, just noticed a problem with my argument in my last post. After KB, marvellosity was the second person to jump on the "lunch a lurker" bandwagon against solohan. This could have been a distancing gambit, but it does throw a wrench into the analysis. What we have to decide is, would marvellosity have believed that there was a realistic chance for solohan to get lynched day 1 for lurking? (Assume for now that if solohan is scum, he was in communication with his buddy despite being afk. Maybe with a smartphone. I think that if one scum actually thought the other scum wasn't going to post that day, he probably wouldn't try to start a lurker lynch bandwagon on him.) Depending on how risky of a move it would have seemed, we can maybe figure out the chance that one scum would join that incipient bandwagon on another. I smiled at the smartphone comment As you're probably aware, I could have brought up the fact I voted Solohan on any of the last few pages, but I didn't see much point in doing so due to the natural reaction of the bit I bolded. | ||
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On April 06 2012 10:23 omnomMuffins wrote: Thank you KB for such an amazing will. The only problem I have with voting for Solohan now is that we know that he was jailed last night. This means that if he is mafia, that means that he is not a killer, and not the biggest threat out there. Which means it is one of the rest of us. Marvel, S&B, myself and HiroPro are the ones to be looking at today. The safe vote is for Solohan, but if we want to get the killer, he is not the man. I read the Q&A on this earlier because KB's post confused me as I thought either mafia could hit, but it's only the goon. I don't know if it's what you're getting at, but if the goon is killed then the Roleblocker performs mafia kills instead. I would like to say - we are not after the mafia killer. We are simply after mafia. | ||
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A wise man said to me - a scum's aim is simply to appear as town, whereas a townie's aim is to scumhunt. Which of these takes more effort? Scumhunting. Taking that in mind, I'm left with looking at s&b, Hiro, and omnom. I have fairly strong town reads on s&b (if you are mafia, well played sir). So that leaves Hiro and omnom. I've read both their filters multiple times this afternoon, and I'm ready to take some action. With that in mind, I would like to put forward a case against HiroPro. The gist of this case will be that Hiro has not attempted to scumhunt, NOR taken any firm stances. On April 02 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote: Of omnomMuffins and marvellosity, omnomMuffins has contributed almost nothing, while marvellosity has identified a possible scumslip by strongandbig. ##Vote: omnomMuffins First we have the vote for omnom, based on the fact he's lurking. Even though we know omnom had a reason to be lurking (it was given). I'd also like to point out omnom's filter is in fact twice as long as Hiro's. Hiro then goes on to vote for Solohan and Therapist. in succession. Fair enough, it's Day 1. Let's see Hiro bust out some firm stances and opinions shall we? On April 03 2012 05:43 HiroPro wrote: Fourface - I don't like the mass claim idea. Scum can find out jailer/doctor, while town gains absolutely nothing, especially considering that we are not even sure of what roles exist. Marvelosity, you said that you had no idea who to vote for. 1)I don't believe that at all. If you didn't know, there was no way you would have switched votes right when it mattered the most. What are your reads? 2)Omnomnom is scummy as hell, but I think everyone knows that. And nothing that Kohbee and solohan have said today has made any sense. Kohbee ignores what other people say, while it doesn't look like solohan represented anything that happened the first day correctly. 3)Both of them are possible scum (obviously only one of them can be scum for the reason that FourFace posted). 1) is probably just lack of thread reading, but I was unvoted at the time, it wasn't a switch. 2 and 3 are more interesting though. 2) Everyone knows omnom is scummy as hell? Because at the start of the game he posted little with due explanation and he voted for a disruptive Fourface? So far you made a ONE LINE case against omnom "illogical vote on fourface" and that's it. 3) Excellent! Both are possible scum. Let's cast suspicion in various directions without making any sort of case or taking any sort of stance. What do you THINK? On April 04 2012 09:28 HiroPro wrote: The biggest thing against omnom for me is that he seems to not care about actually looking for scum. The quotes are from omnom's posts arguing against FourFace and Kohbee. Seems ironic. Looking at omnom's filter, at least he made a firm stance on Kohbee. He also made some sort of case on him (which Hiro has yet to do against anyone). Let's not forget guys, being WRONG on something is not a scumtrait. It's the motivation behind it we have to look at. Mafia have more information than town, remember, so it's easier for them not to be wrong. None of Hiro's posts have had any real substance whatsoever. Hiro has casted doubts upon almost everyone in the game, without ever making a case against someone or scumhunting. Seems like scum. Town? Discuss. | ||
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On April 07 2012 07:30 strongandbig wrote: First, we have the question of the day 1 lynch. As I said waay back in the thread (it was in my "if kohbee flips town" analysis post), I don't think that mafia could give up the chance for a completely free lynch of someone who just claimed a blue role, especially on day 1. However, in my opinion that chance was only open to FourFace and Hiropro. Either of those two could have kept their vote on kohbee and allowed him to die, then claimed they were afk for the hour between his last-minute claim and the voting deadline. So I don't think that hiro is scum. You could at least be consistent with your argument. Kohbee was leading 4-2 when hiro moved his vote from solohan (who you agree is scum) to therapist - 4-3. Then I, yes, me, cast my vote on therapist to make the vote equal at 4-4, before Fourface removed his kohbee vote to cast his vote on me to leave it at 4-3 to therapist. So it was 4-3 to Kohbee with 10 minutes to the lynch when I voted. And I would vote for Therapist? How does that line up with your completely freeblue lynch that scum wouldn't pass up? | ||
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But yes, main point above, I pretty much DID have it in my hands to lynch Kohbee day 1. | ||
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Hiro: you voted for Solohan because "you didn't want mafia to control the vote". You said Kohbee is completely pro-town simply on the basis that he was talking, but that's not why you voted Solohan at the time. Town, we still have a chance at winning this (and as far as I can see, town very rarely win newbie/mini games) if we can keep the discussion going. First stop is omnom posting something containing serious discussion (whether at IPL or not - do you want town to win?) | ||
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On April 07 2012 10:34 omnomMuffins wrote: I have already made my serious post and got schooled on the rules. Whoever the second mafia is, I don't know. I can't say anything that I haven't said to defend myself. I find no reason to post the same messege repeatedly in the thread. Add the mafia's kill tendencies into the game and anyone who leads the discussion is killed. Well that's no use, is it? You haven't said anything of note since the Kohbee lynch. There's only a few of us left, so "errrr, I dunno" doesn't quite cut it at this point. | ||
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On April 08 2012 04:07 strongandbig wrote: So as far as I can tell, we have the following setup for the second mafia. Hiropro says it's omnommuffins. I say it's probably marvellosity but I'm not sure. Marvellosity says it's hiropro. Omnommuffins who do you think the remaining mafia player is? It would be good to have your opinion. I've read through your posts in this thread since the Kohbee lynch, and I don't see anything from you on that. Grats for totally ignoring my point on the voting on Day 1. I'm starting to think you're doing so wilfully. In the meantime ##Vote: Solohan50 | ||
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The real point is that it was 4-3 (like I said, not 4-2, please PLEASE read my post) and I saved Kohbee. Who cares that people could safely claim bla bla, that's irrelevant. Please tell me my MAFIA motivation for SAVING Kohbee from the vote Day 1 followed by going after him superhard during the next day. Please tell me why as Mafia, when Kohbee claims blue, I would not happily condemn him to the lynch with no fuss whatsoever. Your whole long post goes on about analysing ACTIONS, my actions were to NOT get the free blue lynch and then put my neck on the line by going after him hard the next day. Why would I do that? Makes no sense. | ||
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On April 08 2012 07:10 strongandbig wrote: My point is that you couldn't just do nothing. You had to either save him or not save him, thereby killing him. If you did the latter, it would have been obvious that you killed him after he claimed that he was the cop. If you did anything other than save him, it would have been suspicious. When I say that people who turned down the "free lynch" are less suspicious, I mean people who didn't have to act. You had to act or else you would have been modkilled. The mafia motivation is that it makes more sense for mafia to save the cop, thereby gaining town cred, and then roleblock him, than it does for mafia to publicly kill him after he made his roleclaim. The only time it makes sense for mafia to have him lynched after his roleclaim is if they can do it through inaction. Then why would I have then gone after Kohbee so hard the next day? It makes no sense. I could easily have voted for Kohbee the first day on the basis that his cop claim was a desperate mafia move (as many people have said in this thread). As mafia then, I would save the cop (who everyone would have acknoweldged could be argued as mafia desperation) only to want to roleblock him and then go after him super-hard the next day? Your entire arguments reeks of bullcrap and I don't like it. | ||
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You bang on about ACTIONS, my actions were to save Kohbee the blueclaimer from the lynch only to go after him superhard the next day. Those are not mafia ACTIONS. Geddit? | ||
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Meanwhile, we need to hear from omnommuffins. We need to hear what he promised us On April 08 2012 11:58 omnomMuffins wrote: I am leaning towards HiroPro as mafia. Will do a whole post on why once this whole GSTL drama dies down. I reserve the right to change that opinion when I go through the filters again. | ||
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My thoughts on the night-time kill: if omnom isn't mafia, anyone could be killed as long as omnom is left alive as a now too obvious last day lynch. If he is mafia, he would probably kill hiro. This is why I don't like inactivity | ||
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Best case scenario was probably that omnom was mafia, anyone died, omnom got lynched and town wins. Worst case scenario is that omnom wasn't mafia, random guy got killed, and the last remaining mafia managed to have omnom lynched. We're in the middle case scenario where omnom isn't mafia but was hit. This is extremely surprisingly to me. | ||
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I've been jotting down things in notepad, and I've realised I can't sit here in silence, because: a) if Hiro is mafia, he could kill omnom and hope to lynch me with strongandbig's help, who has been suspecting me for much of the game b) if strongandbig is mafia, he could kill omnom and hope to bring Hiro over to his case against... me again. Now, for some reason mafia thought that killing omnom muffins would be the strongest move, principally because they thought they could get someone else lynched with someone else's help, saving themself. What I can't quite get my head around is that omnom was a good and likely lynch target for anyone involved, it's why this is so tricky. One thing I can think of is this: omnom clearly stated she was going to make a case against Hiro, and as she flipped townie, we can presume that clearly she meant to make a case. This is a decent reason for omnom to be the nightkill, especially given omnom's erratic posting pattern, the kill could occur before omnom made her case (as it indeed occurred). Taking this further into some if buts - Hiro leaves omnom alive, and kills me. omnom goes on to make her case against Hiro, which coupled with my previous case and subsequent death, would be fairly compelling evidence against Hiro. Or, Hiro kills s&b, leaving - me and omnom, both of whom have either already or are planning to make cases against Hiro. Hiro could also be heavily relying on s&b not taking any of this at any worth, because s&b would be thinking of me as mafia. If s&b was mafia, I can't see good enough reasoning for him not leaving omnom alive. This post has been a bit of a journey of discovery for me. But, based on: a) my previously made case vs Hiro b) s&b's longstanding suspicion of me c) omnom's suspicion of hiro and the nightkill only making sense from hiro's perspective, I firmly believe that HiroPro is scum. ##Vote: HiroPro | ||
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On April 10 2012 06:48 strongandbig wrote: However, that also smells a lot like the analysis you made on the fourface killing: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 11:45 marvellosity wrote: The first guy to consistently attack you in the thread, therapist, wound up a dead townie. The 2nd guy, Fourface, who attacked you, wounded up killed. Now Solohan, the next guy who's consistently on your back, is who you're trying to make the 3rd dead guy based on a silly case with his wording of his posts (which came across clearly enough to me). ##Vote: Kohbee And the post that Kohbee pointed out in his pre-death post: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 22:09 Kohbee wrote: If I do get lynched and when I flip Sane Cop, this should immediately confirm Hiropro and KB as town. To argue otherwise is stupid and illogical. Hey Kohbee, why is Marvel also scum? ... In this post he literally sets up the scum's night actions + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2012 09:16 marvellosity wrote: Bah. Ok let's think. Therapist is townie, and if Kohbee is telling the truth, he is blue cop. If that is the case, the clear play for mafia is to hit Kohbee. Mafia could go for the double bluff and not hit Kohbee, but if he's the cop it's way too risky because he could find out their alignment. If Kohbee is lying, then he's mafia. And if Kohbee is mafia, then I think we can say without doubt he won't be killing himself. So we should know at the end of the night what is what. ... He is also chainsaw defending Solohan50 like the life of his game was on the line. He just softly OMGUS'd Hiropro with a completely vague argument for why he is voting the way he is. I also note that Solohan made the same sort of analysis: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 10:47 Solohan50 wrote: - Kohbee's loudest critic, FourFace, was killed immediately after Therapist. While FourFace's lack of spam may help Town a bit, FourFace was also Kohbee's most outspoken enemy and it would be in Kohbee's interest to have him taken out. Having your most vocal opponent taken out would certainly be useful, especially when other people disliked FourFace as well and probably wouldn't mourn his loss (at least one person voted for FourFace just out of spite because of his spam). On top of that, "Kohbee vs Fourface v2" (as KB so eloquently put it) started immediately after, clogging up the thread even more. It sounds like fourface was killed because the mafia thought that it would help them convince town to lynch Kohbee. This has to be the biggest regret-that-I-didn't-know-would-be-a-regret for me in the game. I happen to make a circumstancial argument vs Kohbee, that, unfortunately for me, Solohan also used. However, it was only a part of why I thought Kohbee was scum (I made several other points within that same post). Now, if Kohbee had flipped scum, that circumstancial evidence would have proven correct. It's only because Kohbee happened to flip blue after I voted for him (and you incidentally) that this now looks incriminating. At the time it seemed logical enough (the people having arguments with Kohbee WERE dying after all). On April 10 2012 06:48 strongandbig wrote: Other than that, there's hiro's post yesterday, which seems town-ish to me in light of omnom dying. The reason for this is that it undermines any case hiro would make today against either of us being scum. Amongst the large amount of WIFOM I'm desperately trying to avoid posting, I'd like to at least propose this could be viewed in a different light. Hiro has been going after omnom, makes this point purposefully looking townie, and then when 'shockingly' omnom turns up dead, he can go "aww shucks, seems I was wrong and one of you two must be mafia! *hops on s&b's case against marv*" Hiro doesn't have to make a case when you're already on mine. Again, I appreciate this is WIFOM, but please consider it among other things. On April 10 2012 06:48 strongandbig wrote: HOWEVER! Here's a post from solohan that makes me feel very uncertain about the idea that he and marvellosity could have been scum together: I have to thank you here - I didn't even think to look at Solohan's filter! But this is bang on the money. He explicitly connects us both. Added to this is the post I made at the time where I believed I would be the prime target after Kohbee's killing (I was naive about Solohan apparently): On April 04 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote: Responsibility for my actions? You are the first person I'm pushing hard for a lynch, Kohbee. I am well aware that if you get lynched and you flip blue, I will be #1 target. In the meanwhile, Hiro is ninjaing me and following the established plan of trying to confirm s&b's suspicions of me. Good stuff. On April 10 2012 07:35 HiroPro wrote: Only mafia know the reasons behind the night kills and I think speculating about why certain people were killed is extremely WIFOM and distracts from actually looking for mafia. No, it IS important and relevant as the last major action taken in this game. strongandbig, I ask you the following. Consider that I am mafia, and we will consider the nightkill. It could go down as it did: 1) I kill omnom. S&B has suspicions of me and Hiro can bandwagon this. 2) I kill HiroPro. This leaves s&b and omnom as town. omnom's mafia read just died, and s&b has been pushing marv all game. omnom has to form a new opinion, with... only s&b's large arguments against marv, vs marv's one-liner about being annoyed by s&b (please consider I said I had town-reads on you at least twice this game) 3) I kill strongandbig. Now I am left with my case against Hiro, plus omnom muffins - who also had Hiro as prime target. There is one possible downside to this - for whatever reason, omnom thinks s&b's death is dodgy because he suspected me. But, the real fact is that THERE WOULD BE TWO PEOPLE GUNNING FOR HIRO, AND ZERO GUNNING FOR MARV. Also note that you s&b are probably the strongest collective town-read, so your death would not be surprising in of itself. Please, and I mean please pretty please, tell me why I as mafia would choose option 1 over option 3. It simply makes no sense. Like, I can't stress this question enough. Leaving you alive when I would have me and someone else who stated that Hiro is their mafia is just madness. Why, oh why, would I kill the ONE person about to join in on my case? | ||
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As mafia, I must must choose 3) as my nightkill. | ||
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Why? This is the last day with the entire result on the line. What of it you say? strongandbig has posted twice in Bastard Mafia but not at all here. What the hell is that about? I'm now just confused. I didn't like HiroPro's comment about ignoring the nightkill because it's important. The night-kill is practically what clears me about being mafia. Whoever is town, you have to understand this. Now wait, you say, couldn't you have killed omnommuffins with a view to claim you wouldn't possibly do that and clear yourself? Yes, yes I could. But it's come down to me pleading with the other townsperson to simply believe me. Killing strongandbig would have given me FAR higher chances for victory. So, I've thought Hiro was the scum. But now s&b goes posting in other games without posting here and I'm all a flutter. Whoever is town, this is our last chance to make this right. Please help me. | ||
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But how can you possibly believe that my chances in that situation would be higher than killing you? THAT is the question. Nothing more. I'll put it as a 2 parted, related question: 1) Would my chances as mafia of victory be higher in killing strongandbig and having my choice of wagon be higher than killing omnom and having to plead with the townsperson to win? a) yes b) no Conclusion: ... 2) Do you think I'm stupid enough to have thought that pleading a wifom case on the final day was a better play than killing you and lynching someone else during the final day? a) yes b) no Conclusion: ... Basically, do you think I'm an idiot? To reiterate one more time, I COULD HAVE set this up to say "why would I do that". But clearly my chances were far higher in killing strongandbig regardless. | ||
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At least now I'm certain it is s&b who is town. | ||
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I will reiterate my questions that you quoted. Do you believe that I would have been that stupid? Is that what your filter tells me? Does my capacity to even ask the questions not indicate the answer? Please just answer the two questions I posed and vote. If you think that I would be dumb enough not to have killed you and ended up in this extremely frustrating situation, then so be it. | ||
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Cue Hiro actually making an effort for the first time in days to remedy situation | ||
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Your play has been clever, I'll give you that. you bussed solohan when it was clear the 4 votes on Kohbee were absolutely staying on Kohbee. You then set yourself up to look uber townie by accusing omnom, making a pre-day post, and then killing him. What you failed to appreciate, however, is how killing omnom would look if I were mafia, and that's your mistake. You realised this after I pointed it out and tried to downplay it immediately On April 10 2012 07:35 HiroPro wrote: Only mafia know the reasons behind the night kills and I think speculating about why certain people were killed is extremely WIFOM and distracts from actually looking for mafia. Then again you desperately try to discredit it On April 11 2012 07:31 HiroPro wrote: I don't believe a word you're saying right now. Your entire case is based on night kill WIFOM, which is something that mafia are primarily concerned with. because you know it's so important. I will happily ask you the two questions I asked strongandbig. Tell me straight, no other fluff, do you possibly think I could have played like that unless I was dumb? Looking forward to your answer. | ||
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yay, I'm a dumbass again | ||
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This is all very well, but it still comes down to my questions. But please remember that s&b as it has been brushed under the carpet a bit amidst the rest of this. Hopefully just the last thing that shows you why I WOULD NOT KILL OMNOM GODDAMNIT. | ||
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Please just look at the merits of me killing omnom. Please. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: HiroPro There, now you win if he doesn't vote. | ||
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Town - High fives! strongandbig - I had to drag you goddamn kicking and screaming over the line in utter desperation, but we did it! | ||
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On April 11 2012 09:15 strongandbig wrote: YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH Marv you gotta admit solohan made you look pretty bad, all your cases were wifom and he did the exact same kind of wifom as you But the main reason I had such a hard time voting for hiro is that I felt so crappy about getting kohbee killed, and he was so sure that hiro was town. Anyway I feel like slightly less of an idiot now Yes he did, and that was very unfortunate for me. Because looking back he just said multiple things that fucked me over - but as it turned out we weren't working together, just the things he was saying were working against me! Unlike you I didn't feel that bad killing Kohbee, I didn't feel like it was bad play on my part. And I'm glad that I got my scumread on Hiro right, and I got it right in advance. Not to say I didn't do plenty of silly things this game of course You absolutely played the best, right down to your final correct decision. So grats bro Edit: Also my large thanks to Radfield and Cephiro to hosting this. tyvm ^^ | ||
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On April 11 2012 09:25 Solohan50 wrote: We all made silly mistakes, though some (me) made more than others. It was definitely a good learning experience though; I took away a lot of good information. I think my biggest fault was talking Hiro into killing FourFace on Night 1 though, followed by my Night post on Night 1. We had initially been aiming for Kharad until Kohbee's roleclaim, and I thought killing FourFace would be useful to frame Kohbee. I think if we'd left FourFace in the game and killed Kharad on Night 1, things would've gone much better for Mafia. After killing FourFace, my Night post pretty much gave me away, which didn't leave much for me except to kill Kohbee and then have Hiro bus the shit out of me. Good game though, and hopefully next time I can play a little better. gg mate. Maybe you underestimated how suspicious Kohbee looked for his claim anyway, you probably didn't need to add fuel to the fire. | ||
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Therapist. 04-04-2012 09:48 PM ET (US) Solohan and Hiropro are scum. Guarunteed. That was a week ago! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 11 2012 10:38 jaj22 wrote: Following the nightkill reasoning was acceptable there IMO. Consider that if Marvellosity is scum, he's actually planned to make himself the obvious target and then win the game with nightkill reasoning. You can yell WIFOM all you like, but that's just insanity. Marvellosity didn't show any signs of insanity. KB, Kohbee simply does not understand the reasoning above. The fact that you, the rest of town, and every other contributor in this thread understands it will not help him, I fear. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 11 2012 11:22 Kohbee wrote: Marvel, I see the logic you used to figure out Hiropro was scum. This is fine, however it only works because you know/knew that you were town. To others, your argument should be less about you and more about Hiropro and why he is scum. Yes, but you should for example re-read KB's logic in obsQT, or any other logic. YES, the argument should be about why Hiro is scum. My logic at the end wasn't even figuring out Hiro was scum, not at all. It was just to establish I could NOT be scum, because, as many others have pointed out, that would have been an insane/dumb play on my part. It was indeed WIFOM, but it was WIFOM with irrefutable logic unless you accept I am insane, as jaj wrote. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 11 2012 11:40 Kohbee wrote: To say this is only about marvel is also untrue. In my first (or second im lazy) postgame post I asked for the reasoning behind Strongandbig's vote on hiropro (which is where my comment about town lucking into victory stems from). If you go back i still think that me and KB's cases from days ago against Marvel were stronger than anything Marvel said about Hiropro. Ps. I am taking issue with using WIFOM around NK's as the argument for any lynch. Its part of the reason I got mislynched too in this game. That's because in your case the WIFOM could lead to any number of reasonable explanations. In this case, there was no reasonable explanation for scum marv killing omnom. This is the difference. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 11 2012 11:47 Kohbee wrote: The more you guys expect town, scum, blues, 3rd parties etc to act as you would, the more you will continually be disappointed in your results. I don't think you understand that you saying its irrefutable logic should prove my point exactly. Because you can think this, this makes it instantly not insane, and actually quite cunning, to pull something like this as scum. You are not seeing yourself from an outsiders prospective who do not know you are town. All I am saying is that IMO you needed to add a lot more than just I WOULD BE STUPID TO DO THIS, to the thread to have ensured victory. I understand that you did what you thought was necessary to win the game, but I don't think this is the right way to go about your reads, ESPECIALLY in lylo You are not grasping that I had the option to kill strongandbig for an easy mafia victory. I pointed out myself that I was resorting to a desperate WIFOM case instead of ensuring my own victory by killing strongandbig. This would not be a cunning mafia play, it would be stupid, because I could have ensured my own victory. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
you obviously know better than literally everyone else. grats | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 11 2012 12:16 strongandbig wrote: I'm just not going to talk to kohbee about this game anymore. It's clear that he just wants to show how right he is, but that he's not willing to listen. GG town, really happy we won. gg man, still can't believe you came over to the lightside with less than a minute less. f5f5f5f5f5f5 syndrome... On April 11 2012 13:43 jaj22 wrote: Rarely. Without meta or veteran scumhunting abilities, I think the balance is strongly against town, and scum need to screw up badly to lose. What's notable about this victory is that it had no positive blue influence. The only other newbie town victories I recall are Student Mafia (really good town play + Palmar smurf) and Newbie Mini Mafia III (blue victory). Feels good I tell ya, with no blue actions being taken/having impact the whole game. On April 11 2012 14:31 jaj22 wrote: For what it's worth I hated his play in his previous game This probably isn't a popular view, but I think FourFace is right that towns can suffer from being too polite, careful and reasonable. The converse is also true, but in newbie games towns tend to err on the side of caution, which make it tough to spot the (naturally cautious) scum. Unfortunately newbie towns also tend to mislynch aggressive players (eg Kohbee). Yeah, we were one of those 'newbie towns' :p I didn't like Fourface's play (took it too far) but I absolutely see where you're coming from - I've replaced into Mafia LI and everyone is generally far more flippant and less reserved. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 12 2012 00:33 Kohbee wrote: listen, you can keep belittling my argument all you want and sweeping it under the rug but please don't tell me I fail to understand what happened. I will put it this way. Lets say that Hiropro had decided to kill strongandbig and then the entire day screamed at omnom that he would have killed omnom for an easy win and that he would have to be stupid to have killed strongandbig. If it played out like the last day did, you would have been lynched and hiropro would have won using WIFOM logic. I don't think that you realize that strongandbig did not KNOW you were town like you did. As mentioned before, you are the only one who fails to grasp it. Literally everyone else understands, you do not. That's it. | ||
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