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Kohbee, I disagree with your entire point about Therapist/HiroPro. As far as I understood Solohan, he was clearly talking about Therapist in his post. Therefore his 2nd post was not an excuse.
You then go on to 'explain' that you were not going after Therapist the whole day, before then demonstrating you kinda were. You say your first two posts were to "shut him up" - nonetheless you made them, and you made them in a non-productive, pointless way. Then as you point out yourself as well, you say 3 times later on that we should be looking at therapist, and then you vote for him.
If a vote for him plus mentioning you think he's scummy AT least 5 times doesn't warrant Solohan saying you were on therapist's back all day, I don't know what does.
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Sigh. You're so aggressive. You mentioned him in a couple of other posts too, looking at your filter.
You've pointed fingers at almost everybody in the game. Almost your whole filter reads to me as creating a bad town atmosphere (various OMGUS, attacks, etc). You've sown confusion where there didn't have to be any, pointed fingers, and with your arguments with Fourface and omnom totally derailed town discussion. You roleclaimed blue in a terrible fashion for town; this could be scummy play or bad townie play, but together with the rest of your posts clearly leans towards a desperate scum move.
The first guy to consistently attack you in the thread, therapist, wound up a dead townie. The 2nd guy, Fourface, who attacked you, wounded up killed. Now Solohan, the next guy who's consistently on your back, is who you're trying to make the 3rd dead guy based on a silly case with his wording of his posts (which came across clearly enough to me).
Of secondary consideration here is the large amount of information we get from a Kohbee lynch. As Fourface handily pointed out earlier, we can already eliminate several Kohbee + someone else combinations. If/when Kohbee flips scum, we already have a big head start on scum #2. If Kohbee miraculously flips as blue cop, again the information is vast.
Kohbee is scum and people should vote for him.
##Vote: Kohbee
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On April 04 2012 12:04 Kohbee wrote:Aggression is not a scum trait. Also, Fourface literally saved me from being lynched. Both you and solo have now used fourface against me, which I find really weird. That is some serious WIFOM you guys are bringing up. Someone I called town (the entire game i might add) got killed by scum and flippd town, this now someone helps the case against me being town? If we are going to do WIFOM Why would I call fourface town when others wanted to lynch him and I argued out against them. To say I consistantly attacked therapist is a HUGE overstatement. one more thing Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 11:45 marvellosity wrote:
If Kohbee miraculously flips as blue cop, again the information is vast.
Kohbee is scum and people should vote for him.
##Vote: Kohbee What? If I flip blue cop, you and solohan have some SERIOUS explaining to do, don't try and act like my mislynch doesn't have reprecussions
You leave out 95% of my valid arguments to strike back on non-points.
I did not say you consistently attacked therapist, I said he attacked you. My point about Fourface was that he attacked you, not the other way round.
I also nowhere tried to act like you flipping blue would have no repercussions (how is me saying the information would be vast = no repurcussions??)
I am pretty certain you will not flip blue, and for the whole plethora of reasons already outlined, you are scum.
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No, he has not acted more scummy. I think you're making a terrible mistake preferring Solohan over Kohbee, Hiro. I concisely listed a whole bunch of points about Kohbee, but you seem to be saying these are all totally outweighed by Solohan being a little quiet and thinking Kohbee is scum? Poor thinking imo.
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I did say I have 2 scum reads, unfortunately the 2nd relies heavily on you being scum. Which I've realised is a bit too WIFOM.
Responsibility for my actions? You are the first person I'm pushing hard for a lynch, Kohbee. I am well aware that if you get lynched and you flip blue, I will be #1 target.
I think your case against me is weak. I have no idea why I would speculate about mafia actions if I were mafia.
At the end of Day 1, therapist was not posing a particular threat to mafia (unless it's you!), where as you definitely had the potential to do so (much more active posting). Yet it was my vote that condemned therapist and saved you. I just don't see how you can reconcile yourself to the fact that if I were mafia I wouldn't take the FREE BLUE LYNCH on day 1.
I agree with you that Solohan a) hasn't posted enough, b) has tunneled on you (I find one post only where he makes 2 reads on other people). But for me, this doesn't come close to comparing to
On April 04 2012 11:45 marvellosity wrote:
You've pointed fingers at almost everybody in the game. Almost your whole filter reads to me as creating a bad town atmosphere (various OMGUS, attacks, etc). You've sown confusion where there didn't have to be any, pointed fingers, and with your arguments with Fourface and omnom totally derailed town discussion. You roleclaimed blue in a terrible fashion for town; this could be scummy play or bad townie play, but together with the rest of your posts clearly leans towards a desperate scum move.
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On April 04 2012 23:54 strongandbig wrote:
That said - I agree that if you do turn out to be blue, then marvellosity looks very suspicious.
Additionally, there's another possibility which I hadn't considered earlier - that you and hiro could both be scum, and the random vote was an early distance attempt. This is added to by the fact that I don't see why "not caring that someone is voting for you" is a town reaction, especially in a newbie game.
1) Agreed
2) had crossed my mind before. But in my mind I didn't make it stick because of Hiro's posting pattern.
Firstly Hiro totally ignores Kohbee's vote at him. Then
On April 02 2012 08:49 HiroPro wrote:
What on earth is going on? Why on earth are we lynching one of the most pro-town people. Therapist's main contribution has been imagining a ridiculous WIFOM scenario and people are voting for Kohbee!!!
Unvote: Solohan50
##Vote: Therapist.
This seemed rather an impassioned defence of Kohbee, someone who had accused him earlier. I don't know what his justification for calling Kohbee one of the most pro-town people was either.
BUT, subsequently, Hiro cast doubt on Kohbee's posting:
On April 03 2012 06:04 HiroPro wrote:
FourFace made a post saying that you should stop making arguments based on the hypothetical that you are not mafia. And what did you do..... Your very next post was about how when you get lynched and flip blue, solohan and strong should be lynched.
That kind of post isn't productive. It doesn't get us any closer to figuring out whether or not you are scum.
On April 03 2012 06:10 HiroPro wrote:
Before you claimed cop, you posted reads based on what people posted and acted like.
Now? Everything's "Hey guys, I'm cop, therefore these individuals are suspicious."
Which of these behaviors do you think helps town more?
On April 03 2012 06:17 HiroPro wrote:The only people who know whether or not this is true are yourself and mafia.
On April 04 2012 07:58 HiroPro wrote:Kohbee - On the first day of posting Marvel pressed you for your reads on town and you replied Show nested quote +There is no reason to post this. It will provide a kill list to scum. I would rather post this at the end of night deadline. Is there a reason that you never posted anything like this at the end of first night?
Because of this, I don't see Hiro as Kohbee's scumbuddy.
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Cmon guys, only 7 hours until end of Day, need ppl like KB, muffins, Solohan posting asap.
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On April 05 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 02:43 KharadBanar wrote:
After reading everyone's thoughts about Kohbee, I have to say he still doesn't look that scummy to me. I am still in favor of a lynch against Solohan50, especially since Kohbee really took our advice to heart and is now posting regularly and with some thought behind his statements. He still hasn't confirmed himself town through his actions, but I have the feeling he's getting there. Solohan50 on the other hand has again posted once solely to defend against Kohbee's and my accusation and has been missing since. I'll say it again: If he's not scum, him getting lynched is absolutely no loss to town with his behaviour. With only one mislynch left until LYLO, we can't afford to think like that.
This... I was reading the Sum of all Fears thread (or maybe one of its QTs) and wiser players than me basically said that a bad townie is still a townie. It was pointed out that ultimately Mafia is a numbers game, and what is needed for victory is kill mafia and keep townies.
If Solohan is not town it IS a loss, we are down one more team-member, plus we'd get much less info from his death than Kohbee's death.
Kohbee is still scum. If town wants to win this game, they need to be voting with me.
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Uh oh. Can't back down now though :x
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Well shit. I don't like being wrong
Is the case on Solohan so strong that all you guys voted for him and Kohbee is totally convinced he's scum? What am I missing? Why is it him?
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EBWOP: I get the 'why', in that he's been quite lurky and has been focused on Kohbee the whole time, but why is that such a big tell compared to anything else?
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On April 05 2012 09:45 KharadBanar wrote:marvellosity, since you asked I'll elaborate a bit on why Kohbee and I had such a strong suspicion of Solohan50 (should have posted this before lynch but oh well): If you read his filter, you'll see: - the /in
- a fluff post at the start of the game
- an explanation on why he didn't post up to that point
- four posts about why he thinks Kohbee is scum (late Day 1, three of them during the Great Voting Craze™)
- One (1) post of analysis, which seems okay and contains his opinion on Kohbee
- A post of defense where he explains his Kohbee read and admits to being single-minded (at least that's something)
- Fluff discussing the weather in Vegas (to be fair, omnomMuffins asked him)
- His eventual vote on Kohbee
- A reply to an outsider asking to join and failing. Note that this comes one minute after the post he's replying to which indicates some heavy lurking on Solohan50's part (The chances he incidentally refreshed just at the right time are pretty slim)
Note that 100% of the Game Content posts are in some way or other about Kohbee and he didn't even seem to try to focus on other people, apologizing with "The reason I seem to focus on Kohbee so much is that he's the only read that I really have right now." and not following it up with anything. Solohan50, I think you had enough chances to explain yourself and I'm now pretty set in my opinion. I am however listening to everything you say, if only to get more scum tells. But if you manage to get REALLY convincing (i.e. it's nigh on impossible) perhaps you can sway my vote tomorrow.
You see, this is why I'm both upset and angry about how this lynch went down. Why couldn't you have presented a case like this before? A good list of points followed by reasoning. All I had from you or Hiro was (paraphrasing) "I think Kohbee's got better", "I'm not convinced Kohbee is scum", "Solohan is lurky and has tunneled on Kohbee". How is that meant to convince anyone?
And then Kohbee's post before he died was the most townie thing I saw from him all game, but of course it was too late, so I wish he'd just defended himself differently/better.
ANYWAY, now that I've vented a little bit, town has its solution. Everyone in town needs to make sure they're talking, and they're making their points clearly. Town can still win this, but only if every townie member is active, makes reads, and tries to flush out scum.
I'm gonna have to rehash and reread everything in this thread, because I think I was viewing everything and everyone with the conviction that Kohbee was scum. So, expect some reads and conversation from me a bit later.
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On April 05 2012 23:18 strongandbig wrote:
Ugh, just noticed a problem with my argument in my last post.
After KB, marvellosity was the second person to jump on the "lunch a lurker" bandwagon against solohan.
This could have been a distancing gambit, but it does throw a wrench into the analysis. What we have to decide is, would marvellosity have believed that there was a realistic chance for solohan to get lynched day 1 for lurking? (Assume for now that if solohan is scum, he was in communication with his buddy despite being afk. Maybe with a smartphone. I think that if one scum actually thought the other scum wasn't going to post that day, he probably wouldn't try to start a lurker lynch bandwagon on him.) Depending on how risky of a move it would have seemed, we can maybe figure out the chance that one scum would join that incipient bandwagon on another.
I smiled at the smartphone comment 
As you're probably aware, I could have brought up the fact I voted Solohan on any of the last few pages, but I didn't see much point in doing so due to the natural reaction of the bit I bolded.
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gg KB, thanks for the post
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Lol, I know Radfield's post was written without seeing KB's, but in chronological order Radfield's post basically says Solohan is scum.
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On April 06 2012 10:23 omnomMuffins wrote:
Thank you KB for such an amazing will.
The only problem I have with voting for Solohan now is that we know that he was jailed last night. This means that if he is mafia, that means that he is not a killer, and not the biggest threat out there.
Which means it is one of the rest of us.
Marvel, S&B, myself and HiroPro are the ones to be looking at today.
The safe vote is for Solohan, but if we want to get the killer, he is not the man.
I read the Q&A on this earlier because KB's post confused me as I thought either mafia could hit, but it's only the goon.
I don't know if it's what you're getting at, but if the goon is killed then the Roleblocker performs mafia kills instead.
I would like to say - we are not after the mafia killer. We are simply after mafia.
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Ok. So it seems fairly clear that Solohan is getting lynched this Day cycle unless something very odd happens. So we should try to make our time as productive as possible.
A wise man said to me - a scum's aim is simply to appear as town, whereas a townie's aim is to scumhunt. Which of these takes more effort? Scumhunting. Taking that in mind, I'm left with looking at s&b, Hiro, and omnom. I have fairly strong town reads on s&b (if you are mafia, well played sir). So that leaves Hiro and omnom. I've read both their filters multiple times this afternoon, and I'm ready to take some action. With that in mind, I would like to put forward a case against HiroPro.
The gist of this case will be that Hiro has not attempted to scumhunt, NOR taken any firm stances.
On April 02 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
Of omnomMuffins and marvellosity, omnomMuffins has contributed almost nothing, while marvellosity has identified a possible scumslip by strongandbig.
##Vote: omnomMuffins
First we have the vote for omnom, based on the fact he's lurking. Even though we know omnom had a reason to be lurking (it was given). I'd also like to point out omnom's filter is in fact twice as long as Hiro's.
Hiro then goes on to vote for Solohan and Therapist. in succession. Fair enough, it's Day 1. Let's see Hiro bust out some firm stances and opinions shall we?
On April 03 2012 05:43 HiroPro wrote:
Fourface - I don't like the mass claim idea. Scum can find out jailer/doctor, while town gains absolutely nothing, especially considering that we are not even sure of what roles exist.
Marvelosity, you said that you had no idea who to vote for. 1)I don't believe that at all. If you didn't know, there was no way you would have switched votes right when it mattered the most. What are your reads?
2)Omnomnom is scummy as hell, but I think everyone knows that. And nothing that Kohbee and solohan have said today has made any sense. Kohbee ignores what other people say, while it doesn't look like solohan represented anything that happened the first day correctly. 3)Both of them are possible scum (obviously only one of them can be scum for the reason that FourFace posted).
1) is probably just lack of thread reading, but I was unvoted at the time, it wasn't a switch. 2 and 3 are more interesting though.
2) Everyone knows omnom is scummy as hell? Because at the start of the game he posted little with due explanation and he voted for a disruptive Fourface? So far you made a ONE LINE case against omnom "illogical vote on fourface" and that's it.
3) Excellent! Both are possible scum. Let's cast suspicion in various directions without making any sort of case or taking any sort of stance. What do you THINK?
On April 04 2012 09:28 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 08:50 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro, could you please outline your case on omnom a little more? I find he has less negative points than Kohbee does. The biggest thing against omnom for me is that he seems to not care about actually looking for scum. The quotes are from omnom's posts arguing against FourFace and Kohbee.
Seems ironic. Looking at omnom's filter, at least he made a firm stance on Kohbee. He also made some sort of case on him (which Hiro has yet to do against anyone). Let's not forget guys, being WRONG on something is not a scumtrait. It's the motivation behind it we have to look at. Mafia have more information than town, remember, so it's easier for them not to be wrong.
None of Hiro's posts have had any real substance whatsoever.
Hiro has casted doubts upon almost everyone in the game, without ever making a case against someone or scumhunting.
Seems like scum.
Town? Discuss.
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On April 07 2012 07:30 strongandbig wrote:
First, we have the question of the day 1 lynch. As I said waay back in the thread (it was in my "if kohbee flips town" analysis post), I don't think that mafia could give up the chance for a completely free lynch of someone who just claimed a blue role, especially on day 1. However, in my opinion that chance was only open to FourFace and Hiropro. Either of those two could have kept their vote on kohbee and allowed him to die, then claimed they were afk for the hour between his last-minute claim and the voting deadline. So I don't think that hiro is scum.
You could at least be consistent with your argument. Kohbee was leading 4-2 when hiro moved his vote from solohan (who you agree is scum) to therapist - 4-3.
Then I, yes, me, cast my vote on therapist to make the vote equal at 4-4, before Fourface removed his kohbee vote to cast his vote on me to leave it at 4-3 to therapist.
So it was 4-3 to Kohbee with 10 minutes to the lynch when I voted. And I would vote for Therapist?
How does that line up with your completely freeblue lynch that scum wouldn't pass up?
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EBWOP: imo Hiro's vote staying on Solohan could simply have been clever. It seems to me fairly clear the 4 of us voting on Kohbee weren't changing our minds.
But yes, main point above, I pretty much DID have it in my hands to lynch Kohbee day 1.
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