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On April 06 2012 01:00 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 00:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Well, it looks like we're flipping Syllo today.
##Push: Syllogism
Risk.nuke, why did you push Cephiro instead of using your ability at the end of that day again?
WBG, are you actually scum-hunting and trying to form reads? I see you saying this a lot and throwing around names, but there's not much content, and it's super nebulous. What made you decide to change your mind on Bluelightz somewhat? + Show Spoiler +
On April 02 2012 22:27 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm okey with killing layabout or bluelights.
I'm using my abillity today and can't PoP. On April 03 2012 04:18 risk.nuke wrote:
I don't know if you misunderstand how my power work. I can turn on my sirens once during the day and I check for bad toys near me in the 3x2 area centered around meduring that specific time. I can use it again tomorrow if I survive the night. On April 05 2012 07:33 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 22:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Do we get to see the queue at the end of the day?
Yes
Are you scum, or just using your role incredibly sub-optimally? Why wouldn't you want to potentially get off a red check or check through a bunch of townies?
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On April 06 2012 01:21 Tobon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 00:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Are you being purposefully thick? There's nothing that says that Syllo didn't get a teleportation item and switched himself with someone, or that if he's scum they don't have hidden pulls or a queue altering ability that can save him. It's much better to just push him off the edge, than let him sit there and then we can all act surprised and confused if he ends up living through the end of the day. Use your head. Unfortunately for you, sir, I don't think you are actually that stupid. If Syllo got the teleportation item he gets off scott free for the day and a couple extra pushes do nothing at all - they are completely wasted because it's like starting over from no pushes. Hidden pulls or a queue altering ability is total WIFOM. Syllo was at location #21. He'd need 3 hidden pulls to get him out of the fire. There's been absolutely no evidence that such a thing exists, and it would be unbelievably powerful if scum had such an ability to privately undo a town lynch. You are making no sense, which means you are trying to cover for throwing your push away, which makes you red.
That's why we push him off the queue. If "a couple extra pushes" aren't enough to kill Syllo, how are "a couple extra pushes" enough to kill anyone else on the queue? To actually make sure of someone dying, you'd need 6 pushes, according to your own math. There were 7 left before me and Dirk used ours on Syllo. That means, to actually be sure somebody will die, you'd need everyone who hasn't used their push yet to push the same person. Between the two choices, I would much rather make sure Syllo flips. If we push him off the edge of the queue, then we know he's dead. If we push him enough that he should be off the queue, but isn't, then we know he switched or moved.
On April 06 2012 01:24 Acrofales wrote:Okay, it seems like pushes are going on Syllo regardless of whether it's a good idea or not, so one more to get him over the edge (if I counted right), gogo! I also think that with the limited pulls we have, we should get consensus on who we should try to pull off the bottom. Nominations so far seem to be Bluelightz, Mattchew, MrWiggles and Cascades. That seems like more than enough for the moment, so lets get to voting: + Show Spoiler +Poll: Who do we try to pull off the bottom?Bluelightz (3) 43% Cascades (2) 29% MrWiggles (1) 14% Mattchew (1) 14% 7 total votes Your vote: Who do we try to pull off the bottom? (Vote): MrWiggles
(Vote): Cascades
(Vote): Bluelightz
(Vote): Mattchew
Why would you make an anonymous poll that can be voted in by anyone who sees it whether they're playing or not? Just get people to say what they want, a poll is useless.
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On April 06 2012 01:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 01:23 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On April 06 2012 01:06 Tobon wrote:On April 01 2012 13:43 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
What do you guys think about the item? Partway through day 1, we can decide on one person who we want to get it, and then who we want to push them and pull them back. The thing is, the people who do that have their voting powers nullified, so we need to decide on who would be best to do it to, and keep it organized, so no one "accidentally" goes off the queue. My bold. What an odd turn of phrase, from day 1 before anything happened. On April 02 2012 01:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Maybe something like every push/pull has to have an explanation. Don't push someone until you make a case in the thread, and hopefully get a few people to agree with you. Sure isn't following his own advice today, is he? On April 04 2012 22:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Has anybody claimed the kill on Palmar or Shrubbles yet? This is important to me. If you shot one of Palmar/Shrubbles, and haven't claimed yet, please do so. I won't be mad. I promise. The already widely commented upon attempt to find the townie with the gun. There is literally nothing else in his filter. It's all empty words and waffling back and forth about Bluelightz, trying to get town-cred but then dissuade us from actually doing anything to kill him. Oh snap, he used the word nullify! Are you serious? I can't tell anymore. If you want another reason for the syllo push, everyone decided to invest heavily into pushing syllo today. There's no guarantee that he'll actually die at the end of the day. Pushing him will help ensure he actually flips, and make sure that the investment of nearly all our day 2 resources doesn't go to waste. Leaving him just on the edge is incredibly dumb. Remember what happened to VE yesterday? Now imagine the same thing in reverse with Syllo, and it doesn't even tell us anything about his alignment, it just wastes yet another day. Next, about the vig thing. Please, please, please someone tell me how knowing that someone on town's side actually shot Shrubbles benefits scum more than town? If town killed him, scum already know that! The point of the vig claiming the shot is so that we know that it was really town who shot him, and not scum. The vig is assumed to be a VT now, so I don't get why I would desperately need that information, especially when I would already know the vig's aim is off, and thus I don't need to worry about him. So make an actual argument for why that is scummy besides saying it is. Please, I'd love you to. I want to murder you with logic. On April 06 2012 01:15 Tobon wrote:On April 03 2012 12:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm okay with any of those 4 dying (syllo, Sbrubbles, Wiggles or cascades) - they all have about the same chance of flipping scum as far as I'm concerned (pretty high). Personally I prefer a syllo/Wiggles double-kill...but that's not feasible with current activity. I'll also note that VE was reading Wiggles as scum. This was his last post related to other people (the ones after were only about his own Pony Powers), before he took the hidden push and burned horribly 30 minutes later. VE was wrong. He had an over-reaction to my question, and when I called him out on it, he thought I was trying to get a rise out of him. He was also someone who didn't actually have any case on me, besides calling me scum over and over. He was tunneling. So are you now. Just because you claim vigis are one-shot does not make it so. In DFM1 the vigi was 2-shot. Any player who read through DFM1 knows that, and any halfway decent player has read through DFM1, or at least its role list, because repetition has already been proved. Now I'm not saying the 2-shot vigi is in the game, but assuming the vigi is 1-shot is incredibly naïve... or a scum ploy to ferret out the vigilante.
It DOESN'T MATTER if the vig is two-shot or three-shot, or infinite-shot, or one-shot. He just claims to be a one-shot vig, or he doesn't claim his role at all and just tells us he shot the guy. Scum can WIFOM about that. They only have one KP. So, they can choose to shoot a vig who might as well be a VT now, and might be medic protected by someone who thinks role==alignment, or that he's "confirmed town" or some other nonsense, or they can choose to shoot another more important target. Meanwhile, we actually get an idea of what's happening in the game, and aren't completely in the dark. Normal vig play is to claim your shots, hopefully right before the day post. Not claiming just means that we don't know what's happening, and then when someone with KP flips, everyone will go into a frenzy trying to guess if he was the one who shot the guy, or who he shot, etc. We don't know who shot who, so someone flipping with KP doesn't tell us anything about the kills. Claiming your shots lets us know what's going on, and reduces the overall amount of confusion in the game.
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On April 06 2012 01:52 prplhz wrote:
Hey Mr. Wiggles why are you ignoring me?
We should really just kill Mr. Wiggles. No matter if there are scum or town in the Cephiro/syllogism/risk.nuke trio then it was a pretty poor move by scum to shoot Sbrubbles. It really makes more sense for town to have shot him somehow but it's still weird that noone claimed. I don't know why syllogism hasn't talked about his item yet.
Ignoring you about what? Calling me scum? Actually give me your reason for thinking so, otherwise I'll ignore it because it means absolutely nothing to me.
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On April 06 2012 01:59 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 01:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On April 06 2012 01:52 prplhz wrote:
Hey Mr. Wiggles why are you ignoring me?
We should really just kill Mr. Wiggles. No matter if there are scum or town in the Cephiro/syllogism/risk.nuke trio then it was a pretty poor move by scum to shoot Sbrubbles. It really makes more sense for town to have shot him somehow but it's still weird that noone claimed. I don't know why syllogism hasn't talked about his item yet. Ignoring you about what? Calling me scum? Actually give me your reason for thinking so, otherwise I'll ignore it because it means absolutely nothing to me. I kind of asked you a question.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2012 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 01:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm at a cafe on my phone having breakfast (weird for me actually) but this is oddly relaxing.
Wait wtf Wiggles is suddenly against lynching Bluelightz?
What's with the meek response Wiggles? Why do you not want to see him flip immediately? You claim we should use our PoPs on other people but don't even offer one to begin with. The hell?
Bluelightz I really don't see how you could be town. If you actually are town you must be deficient of about 3/4 of the brain cells everyone else possesses, for reasons already mentioned several times (I.e. The position 24 bull) Why do you want to see him die immediately, especially since apparently the OP says that flips don't show up until the end of the day? When I saw that the queue was hidden today, I changed my mind a bit about Bluelightz. It doesn't make sense for him to claim his role, if he had foreknowledge that the queue would be hidden the next day. Not claiming his role, would have let him use his power and blow up potentially four townies, without us knowing anything about it, especially if scum can see the queue. If scum can't see the queue as well, then they wouldn't have used his power in the first place, since they can blow up from it themselves. At this point, we're limited in lynching by the number of pushes/pulls we have to pull people to the ends. This is especially exacerbated when we have people wanting to go for the item each day. This makes it so we have even less pushes and pulls to actually kill scum. So, in my mind, I'm willing to take the risk of leaving bluelightz alive today. If he lies about his bombs, we kill him instantly. If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. WBG, can you give me some concrete reasons for needing to flip bluelightz as soon as possible? So far you've just been running under your initial reason of him running away when pressured, but I haven't really seen much else since then, besides you calling him scum. Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 23:09 Acrofales wrote:On April 04 2012 22:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Has anybody claimed the kill on Palmar or Shrubbles yet? This is important to me. If you shot one of Palmar/Shrubbles, and haven't claimed yet, please do so. I won't be mad. I promise. Hi guys, I'm mafia fishing for a vigilante so I can shoot him tonight, but I won't be mad. I promise!!! Don't be silly. Firstly, most vigilantes are one-shot. Secondly, if this one isn't, we don't know that, so he could just claim one shot. So, why would I fish for what's essentially a VT now? Next, they need to claim their shot, or else I'm just going off the assumption that it was a scum kill, which changes how this played out. Shrubbles being shot by a vig makes sense, but him being shot by scum has some interesting implications. If we assume that there was a scum between Ceph, Syllo, and Shrubbles, then why would scum shoot Shrubbles? He was considered most suspicious after Syllo among the three, so if Syllo was the scum, then you're only hastening his death. If Ceph is the scum, then you ensure that Syllo will flip, though it lets us know that Ceph is the scum quicker as well. If there's no scum among the three, mafia know this, and shooting Shrubbles makes sure that we most likely lynch Syllo, and if he flips town, Ceph. Basically, it sends us on a wild goose chase. Can anyone answer why scum would shoot shrubbles when there's basically a list check that you're shortening by killing him? The only reasons I can think of, are that we're looking at the wrong person (syllo), or there isn't really a scum between the three of them. This is especially true considering the check doesn't confirm people as town, so lynching a scum out of them does nothing to clear the other ones, so it's not like scum had to worry about DT-checked townies or something like that. That no one actually questioned the kills is concerning.
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So, I see people still want to lynch me, and they're still not giving any concrete reasons besides parroting that I'm scum. If someone wants to make a case on me, then go ahead, but it's going to be vacuous, I can tell already.
So, here's my proposal. The queue looks like this right now:
+ Show Spoiler +24.[_________][_________]
23.[_________][_________]
22.[_________][_________]
21.[_________][_________]
20.[_________][_________]
19.[Item_____][_________]
18.[syllogism][_________]
17.[_________][_________]
16.[_________][_________]
15.[_________][_________]
14.[Snarfs][____________]
13.[Mattchew][prplhz]
12.[cascades][_________]
11.[Bluelightz][_________]
10.[Tobon][_________]
9.[Dirkzor][____________]
8.[Mr.Wiggles][risk.nuke]
7.[Acrofales][Nemesis]
6.[Cephiro][Bill Murray]
5.[Mr.Zentor][_________]
4.[_________][_________]
3.[_________][_________]
2.[_________][_________]
1.[_________][_________]
My proposal is that we use three pushes, or some small amount of pulls and pushes, and then check me versus one of Dirkzor or Nemesis with risk.nuke's ability. Then, we either get a clear, and we can focus on other targets for awhile, or we get a red check, and we can kill into the two people. If you want to push one of the two into the danger zone, then this plan only uses one additional push in total to get them there due to the way the queue works. If we want to pull, then it's a little more inefficient, but we could work it around pulls to make it as efficient as possible, i.e. pull Acrofales once, then either push dirk out, or pull out nemesis. Then, it would take either one more pull or push than just killing, but we have a check now, so in the case we mislynch, we know the other guy checked as red.
My reason for checking versus either Dirk or Nemesis, is that I think Acrofales is much more likely to be town than either of those two based on his posting, and they both seem pretty scummy to me. Also, checking only two people, if we get a red-check, and you decide to mislynch by killing me, you at least know for certain who the scum is. None of this confusion like what happened with Shrubbles, Syllo, and Cephiro.
So, the outcome is that we either:
a) Check two people as town.
b) Get a scum result, in which case I know the other guy is scum, and can hopefully convince you to kill him instead of myself.
Like I said, this only uses one additional push/pull than just straight up killing one of us, gives a binary result (or at least one from my point-of-view), and can hopefully clear up a lot of confusion. We also lose risk-nuke's push and pull, but I think that's worth it for the potential gains.
What do you guys think?
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Hey cascades, why don't you want to check dirkzor?
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Also, we're only using the check on two people. Not 5, 4, or even 3. We don't have days to waste, or enough townies to kill into lists of 3 or more that might only have 1 scum. Check two people, and if it says scum, we at worst get a one-to-one trade.
@Acrofales, the point is to not use the check on more than two people. If it pops red with 3 or more people around him, it's useless, and it means that people are going to go on a stupid rampage and probably kill two townies trying to get at the scum. Limiting it to two people makes the check a lot more useful, gives us more information quicker, and limits any potential damage. That's why we need to move you out of the way, preferably in the direction the person we want to lynch has to move.
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##Push Bluelightz
##Pull Nemesis
##Banish: Mr. Wiggles
I honestly think this is the first game that's made me actually rage. I'm finding it impossible to scumhunt, because I can't tell the scum from the plain stupid. I was considering just letting you kill me, but that would be playing against my win condition.
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On April 09 2012 05:37 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 03:05 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
##Push Bluelightz
##Pull Nemesis
##Banish: Mr. Wiggles
I honestly think this is the first game that's made me actually rage. I'm finding it impossible to scumhunt, because I can't tell the scum from the plain stupid. I was considering just letting you kill me, but that would be playing against my win condition. are you trying to claim scum nullifier or?
Nope, I'm the Warlock Toy. I have the power to take someone off the queue completely for one day or night cycle. I was saving my power for a mislynch, so that's why I'm using it now. Killing me is a waste of pulls and time, so I'm not letting you do it.
Are you checking Drik and Tobon?
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On April 09 2012 06:41 Dirkzor wrote:
So wiggles.... if you were saving your power to save a mislynch, why didn't you use it on day 1 or 2 when Palmar or Cephiro was in danger and nullified?
I didn't feel like Palmar was worth saving. He wasn't putting any effort into the game, and I thought there were better uses of my power later on into the game. Next, Cephiro was nullified and saved within a twenty minute period where I wasn't around. So, what's your point?
Just wait for Ace to update the queue. I'm not the nullifier. You can tell because I won't be on the queue anymore.
I think that one of you or Nemesis are very likely to flip scum based on your posting. It shouldn't be surprising I think this, I already wrote it before, if you're reading the thread. I'm done being reasonable though, because you guys obviously can't be trusted to discuss anything properly and not just act impulsively or give terrible reasoning to do whatever you feel like.
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Why did you pull risk.nuke?
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Also, I'm guessing risk.nuke lied about using his power when he posted that he did. Shouldn't the light have come on already if you used your check? The last time, it came on during the day.
I want to see your reasons for putting 5 people next to risk.nuke, BM. If you want to do a check like that, it's not worth it, as there is a very high chance it will turn red just based off probability, and it won't be revealing at all. If that's not why, any enlightenment would be appreciated. I wouldn't put it out of the question that there could exist an ability that blows people up around someone, or in an area, so why do you want to clump 5 people around risk.nuke for what looks like no reason?
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BM, I don't think you're reading the thread.
On April 03 2012 02:46 risk.nuke wrote:
sorry, the red light is not my abillity. Interesting how some people immidiatly choose to distract the discussion from the lynch candidates. On April 03 2012 03:58 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 02:46 risk.nuke wrote:
sorry, the red light is not my abillity. Interesting how some people immidiatly choose to distract the discussion from the lynch candidates. I lied, a bit stressfull day sorry I'm not on top of things. I initially didn't want to claim but I changed my mind. so yeah confirmed atleast one of sbrubbles, cephiro and syllogism is an evil toy. On April 07 2012 19:26 risk.nuke wrote:
Feel free to discuss ideas how or if I should do something with my power today?
I check 2 toys 1 slot above me, the toy next to me and toys 1 slot below me so a maximum of 5 toys.
illustration for those who still haven't gotten it. If I would check the red slots.
10.[Tobon][_________]
9.[Dirkzor][Mr.Zentor]
8.[Mr.Wiggles][risk.nuke]
7.[Acrofales][Nemesis]
6.[Cephiro][Bill Murray]
A condition is there needs to be atleast 2 toys in the red zone or it will malfunction so I can't be used as a dt to check a single person.
When he says two in the red, he means two people around him, from my understanding.
On April 09 2012 01:47 risk.nuke wrote:
Okey, I'll use my abillity now on tobon and dirkzor.
Here he says he used his ability.
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I think I've figured out the scum team. Too bad you weren't counting on an alignment vig, were you?
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You see, I am the Stealth Assassin Toy. Once per game, I have the power to go invisible. As well, I have the power to send in a list of two or more people. If they're of opposing alignments, nothing happens. However, if they're the same alignment, I kill all of them. Thanks for making this easy. GG.
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My claim is very obviously not true.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hdhe4.png)
