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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On April 04 2012 08:03 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 07:59 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I was going to congratulate VE on good scum play, before he flipped.
This is why you have to completely ignore who's a 'veteran' and who isn't, they're still just players in the game
Figures I was right about VE being a soviet (see also, position in the graph)
If it wasnt obvious, most of that graph was random, I threw VE and BH near me, and blue on scum
Being right about Blue <3<3<3
If I was thinking on day 1 enough, my vote would have ended on blue, and the scientist would have been a power role.
The rest of my day 1 could have been improved. CHEESE IF YOU HAD PUT ONE IOTA OF EFFORT INTO THE FUCKING GAME.... ...................gg
uh-uh. no. you do not get to blame C_C for that travesty of a D1 wagon.
Like, he could have played better D1, and yes, I thought he was scummy, but you'll note that I did not want to lynch him. He was not the scummiest. Now, was JW a better lynch? no, it turned out he was just a noob. But the reasons you gave for C_C and the stuff like "Automatic town cred" and "if you go against me you are claiming scum" actively hurt the town.
there may have been reasonable reasons to lynch C_C but I honestly think that this game fell apart as soon as we had a single-wagon D1 where everyone hopped on and nobody had any good reasons, including the townie pushing the wagon.
In any case, VE's play this game was not typical VE play. In my experience with him, as town, he tends to be relatively conservative but typically correct in his reads.
I still don't understand what sinensis was saying about C_C posting "reads" on people's alignment. That was so off course that I could only assume he was a crappy scum player. How could C_C post "reads" on people's alignments? there's no way.
I need to work on distinguishing that kind of play from actual scum play.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I really think you have to be very careful with meta. There ARE variables that change the way a player plays in a game besides alignment; someone may have school, or work, or have just gone through a breakup or gotten laid, and that could change him to play in a more or less aggressive fashion, or be more or less helpful.
Meta is a vital tool, but a lynch based purely on meta must be met with many raised eyebrows.
That being said, slOosh for MVP townie this game.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On April 04 2012 13:11 slOosh wrote:
Another sadface for Sinensis actually giving up at the end. But I guess it is somewhat understandable that at LYLO two townies think him scum ... still would have liked it if he tried till the end.
I find giving up, ESPECIALLY at LYLO, to be unforgivable for a townie. If you give up, that means you stop playing to your wincon. I don't know how anyone finds this to be acceptable play. Even when there's almost no chance whatsoever to stop your own lynch, and even if it's LYLO and the game is about to be over, you die with your finger on the motherfucking trigger and push your scumreads.
Anything less is a death without honor.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On April 04 2012 18:54 Hassybaby wrote:
Oh, and sorry BH, we had to write the kill flavour based on your blog :D
I thought it was awesome :D
except for the part where I left my windows down in the rain ;_;
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I don't think anyone REALLY played against their wincon.
C_C played sub-optimally but he was still trying to win. The case against him WAS pretty crappy and he did try to push his reads. He was just busy during the 4-5 hours leading up to lynch deadline. Could he have done more? definitely. C_C is capable of more. But he did try to win-- he pushed his reads, and to be honest, as the ONLY PERSON IN THE GAME WHO LISTENED TO HIM, I can tell you that he outplayed several town players D1 and even if he seemed scummy should not have been lynched.
The blood of his death stains your hands, not his.
MrZ isn't THAT guilty imo. Was his D2 play horrifically bad? Imo, yes. But he DID claim doctor, then get lynched. I fault him for his effectiveness, helpfulness, and goodness of play, but he definitely did not want to get lynched. A fool, not a knave.
Sinensis even kinda gave up, but again I feel this is more a function of "shitty play" than "didn't want to win". The town atmosphere D3 was well under control of the scumteam. People were discouraged and morale was bad. Sinensis didn't defend himself as well as he could. A fool, not a knave.
That being said, I feel that all three of these guys died like punks, through a combination of town actions and their own. They could have defended themselves more vigorously, or pushed their reads better. The only one who's really innocent is C_C. Did he underplay his usual skill D1? sure. He could have easily not been lynched.
But a reasonable town would not have lynched C_C. Scum played brilliantly imo. Even our combined efforts we were unable to break VE's terrorist grip on the town, and C_C and I are no small fish at arguing.
EDIT: I'm not saying anyone broke the rules. I'm just saying that a death without honor is a sad one indeed.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On April 04 2012 20:43 froggynoddy wrote:Ok fair enough, I retract that post. See you guys in a future game hopefully  . I was not finger pointing as I think we all got outplayed (having noobs like me doesn't help:s), I just felt that Mr Z and Sinensis rlly screwed with my reads. re C_C: I was referring to the flag and to a lesser degree the diagrams... if you read the OP then its clear soft-claiming nationality is playing against town.
The diagram... I can't believe people read into that at all. Or even the flag. Look, Up until the moment he flipped, I had 0 idea whether C_C was SU or US. I honestly think he would have posted the soviet flag even if he rolled US. Also, although the soft claim is weird (if it was indeed a soft claim), he claimed that he would have posted that flag anyways. Then he proceeded to be modestly unbad (better than several other D1 players). Is this C_C playing against his wincon? No, it's him making an error and playing sub-optimally.
There was no anti-wincon motive from C_C at all. end of story.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I agree with prob's analysis of both BLs and GZs posting habits. GZ has improved in legibility since his last gsme thoigh
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I only started playing like 3 months ago! Do I count as a noob
Also looking back on it I still don't understand what sinensis was saying D1 about nationality reads
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EPT
