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I have to leave in literally 3 minutes to go to a rehearsal so these cases are going to be messy, won't be back before deadline.
Sloosh
I'm not the only one that noticed that sloosh didn't push anyone or build any cases D1 right? And he only pushed MrZ after he had already been brought up. META TIME OH NO. slOosh is one of the loudest seminewbies I know and he's very very active as both blue and green. What he's done is scum 101:
1. lurk D1 while town leaders scream at each other.
2. power a lynch through D2, somehow avoid any fallout.
don't got time to flesh this out, but can SOMEONE look at the filter of the dude who pushed MrZ over? When people flip don't just ignore the traindrivers.
cccalf/DYH
the fact that people keep on shying away from him, and now even think he's townie??? absurd. Should've been shot N1 and now we're trapped with him til endgame. he's been scummily lurking. there's no other way to put it
froggy
has been contentless for most of game, doesn't have the same active tone as other people.
gtg bye
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insert foot in mouth -.- I don't know why you lurked so hard sloosh but I guess it kept you alive N1 ><
Flipped DT wanted Sinensis dead; this could be the lead we need. someone should read through sloosh's filter and see if there's any indication on who he checked N1. I have a concert tonight, I'll reread the cases on Sinensis tonight.
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On April 02 2012 07:56 froggynoddy wrote:Show nested quote +I get the feeling there's some kind of scum DT role that can check alignment, or else how would they know which is us/su? Unless its just blind luck. Its possible, especially considering the NUKE on BH. Absolutely useless to discuss now.
unless scum has a Day DT (extremely rare), the nuke on BH was a lucky guess. tho ur right that it is useless to discuss
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bro I got an open mic night to attend to, I'll re-read when I get back. my scumreads stand at DYH/froggy with the notion that I will reconsider my opinion on SInensis
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RE: Sinensis
I've read the Sinensis's cases, of which Nemesis has posted the most about, catalogued here.
The reasons why I didn't agree with the main aspects of the cases, which are
1. bad reasoning for voting C_C and DYH/cccalf
2. unwilling to take a stance / scumhunt
is because #1 applies to almost everyone in the game, and while #2 is true in some respects, I still find Sinensis's tone forthright and committal overall, such as in these posts:
On March 27 2012 16:03 Sinensis wrote:So what changed? Or do you not like being in the same voting boat as johnny? You defended him earlier. On March 28 2012 12:00 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 11:57 Blazinghand wrote:On March 28 2012 11:56 Sinensis wrote:On March 28 2012 11:53 Blazinghand wrote:On March 28 2012 11:51 Sinensis wrote:Back from work. On March 28 2012 11:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:I've been using a simple system to keep track of people, and I have the game solved. It's just a matter of waiting it out now. + Show Spoiler [gg] + So you just alignment claimed soviet for the second time? You are also grouping people based on Nationality. Only one class benefits from grouping based on Nationality, so indeed, gg Nazi. ##vote: Cyber_Cheese Let me get this straight: you think that this post you've quoted somehow has anything to do with anyone's nationality? C_C only knows his own nationality... and he's already soft-claimed AND backtracked SU. There's literally no way he was gonna align-fish anything with this latter post that he wouldn't have already with the first post, assuming people are reading the thread. This is a bad and scummy reason to vote for C_C. Was the flag not enough, but somehow this graphic is? It is the combination of the flag and the graphic, and the fact that he is segregating names in his graphic based on nationality. Explain how the segregating names in his graphic based on nationality does anything to help scum or hurt town? Mafia wins if they kill every citizen of one nationality. Dividing reads by nationality supports that agenda. On March 30 2012 06:58 Sinensis wrote:
##vote: Blazinghand
Your case stinks, so does your posting. I already defended why I voted for C_C once. I would try having a conversation with you but I just don't feel like it because of how you've been posting. Voted for making pointless chaos in the thread wherever he can; we're past the beginning of day 1 the time when that would be appropriate is over.
Also Nemesis until your "analysis" of my play becomes something other than quoting 3 of the first things I said in the game out of context and saying "Also he seems to have a habit of inflating useless topics," I don't have time for you either.
#1: points out my unexplained unvote, assertive.
#2: has a slightly legitimate reason for voting C_C
#3: makes an early push on BH whereas many players have been generally sheeping.
However it's true that he has mostly just been questioning around and not providing reads (#1), his reason for voting C_C is loose (#2), and his push on BH was an badly formed OMGUS (#3). Posts like this:
On March 31 2012 13:44 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 13:37 johnnywup wrote:
ladies and gentlemen, i present our host!
lol
Is situational voting allowed? In C9++ they weren't, so wondering
If they are allowed, I'm willing to vote for c3 if he votes and posts today, or if there is enough interest in it. at the moment zentor or ccc are ok votes by me.
and its very likely they're bussing him if hes scum, which i think he is. Show nested quote +Voting List (Updated up to March 31 2012 08:34)
[Format] Player with vote on him/her will be bolded; player with the majority will be red.
MrZentor (7): gonzaw, slOosh, EchelonTee, zelblade, johnnywup, froggynoddy, Nemesis
cccalf (2): Sinensis, Bluelightz
Sinensis (0): Nemesis froggynoddy
Not voted
MrZentor
cccalf Look. There are 7 votes for zentor. So unless me and/or Bluelightz are scum, which for the sake of this argument we are not, then there are three scum voting for MrZentor right now. Would mafia vote for mafia? On March 31 2012 13:11 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 13:07 johnnywup wrote:
anyways, thats a valid excuse imo. don't fret, you've got a bunch of time to clear your name
also, i would like to know your thoughts on who you think is scum though. 4 scummiest people, in your opinion, and why? Sure. 1st suspicion is cccalf because he does nothing. Then froggy, gonzaw, zentor and zelblade for less provable reasons, mostly just context stuff I picked up here and there. I am aware that is five people and not four. I wanted to give you all of them though. On March 31 2012 12:45 Sinensis wrote:
I'm more inclined to go MrZentor's way and just not co operate with you guys, if that means getting lynched so be it. My vote is staying on cccalf. Period.
Showcase how Sinensis has been
#1: soft defending bluelightz needlessly and using faulty logic
#2: has completely, utterly unsupported reads that just list half the players in the game
#3: absolute apathy
While scum/town can act differently to high pressure and apathy isn't a direct scum tell, the synthesis of all of this means I have to agree with the consensus, that there is no way this is town play. for these reasons +already presented cases:
##Vote: Sinensis
I fully acknowledge that I've have been wrong wrong wrong this game; I mean, one of my biggest scum reads, sloosh, flipped DT right in my face. The fact that I am voting Sinensis after he is already hammered makes me look like a scummy fck, I know, but from the looks of things, scum has definitely decided to bus Sinensis so as we continue through the next few LYLO days, everyone is going to need renewed scrutiny on them. Town needs a string of successful lynches from here, so I'll be stepping up my game. I admit that after N1 the game looked grim as fck, but I'm not throwing in the towel now.
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RE: Bluelightz
I think I was blinded by VE thinking Blue was town, Blue calling me townie, and seeing telltale signs of BL town play like
1. post lists of town reads
2. push whoever he wants whenever
However, derp moves like voting randomly:
On March 28 2012 08:17 Bluelightz wrote:
What teh hell, every man for himself -_-?
Fuck it,
##Unvote
##Vote: EchelonTee
being defensive about bad logic (i have never seen BL do this before:
On March 31 2012 08:57 Bluelightz wrote:
Okay I admit, I made many contradictions >_> have buddied VE on d1, on the vote switch I didn't understand that >.<, but, have I done anything to help town? I shared my reads, tried to start discussion, have added to discussion, etc
I believe C3 has a better chance of flipping scum therefore I will keep my vote on him.
and he hasn't posted a list in ages, aka hasn't displayed his opinions on players in a while, which is both generally scummy and definitely unusual for BL. I was perturbed by people directing vig shots at BL when a misfire would mean instant loss, I can't blame people for thinking BL is scummy fck; he's on my shortlist. i I find it really weird that in a game flavored after US vs SU, there is no nuking power for town, but eh w.e.
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RE: My accusation on froggynoddy
In a game with a lot of loud, brask town leaders, it's been easy for scum to lay back, and I feel that froggy has been a big example of putting in enough fluffy posts to look townie while not actually contributing or taking hard stances.
On March 27 2012 19:37 froggynoddy wrote:Right, lots of content, makes a change from the previous game I was in (still ongoing so I know no discussion). I agree with people's view that discussing the setup is not useful as it detracts from scumhunting. If people want me to explain why I started with the topic here are my reasons:+ Show Spoiler +-
There may be a hidden town role out there that functions depending if its target is US or SU, or depending on how many there are of each.
Maybe there's a mason that can only recruit US players. Maybe there's a medic that can only save SU ones.
How would I know if I wasn't one of these roles myself?
I was kinda thinking along those lines. Backed up by this: Nationality of the player have effect on PR roles
- It was a mistake. I agree that any discussion of nationality is only good for scum at this point, the only way in which I see that changing is if 1. is true. Which, if discussed at this point is only helping scum.
Had a quick look at Blazinghand's filter as he seems to have initiated the most reactions from people... and that's just it, getting people's reactions can only be good for town. This being said, once you have those reactions you have analyse in a rigorous and systematic way (to prevent chaotic namecalling and mass-hysteria), something I'm not sure Blazinghand has done yet but perhaps at this early stage there is no need to. So onto more contemporary topics: C_C: Until he responds I don't want to feed him any excuses as he needs to respond himself as that nationality slip needs to be addressed as it only hurts town. Gonzaw: @VE I know you weren't asking me in particular but I'd rather add to a new topic of conversation than clog up discussion with old ones. I don't see anything suspicious, neither do I see anything particularly useful to town apart from this: Show nested quote +
Also, I'd recomend nobody even slightly hint what nationality they are from. As far as I know, town don't get ANY information whatsoever if someone is US or SU, but scum can use that info to try and get their alternative win-con.
Which I know is a bit of a 'duh, anyone who read the OP and has a brain would realise that' moment, but ensuring that town is clear on how to win (or in this case not lose) can only be pro-town right?
His first big post made me suspicious of him; I'm surprised that the only person who ever has been even slightly against froggy was VE. In this post we have
1. being apologetic about something that no one is even accusing for him, sounds guilty for something that no one accused him of (latent scum guilt)
2. talks about BH's reaction grabbing calling it"sorta townie", but uh "sorta not townie if he doesn't analye it", but uh "he can do it later NP". Essentially, talking about the crazy town happenings but not taking any sort of stance it. Contrast this with how mr. wup said "BH ur logic is bad, ur scum", or how Nemesis was like "dude, stop BH ur being a dumbass". Froggy is loathe to confront this issue, essentially.
3. using C_C vote information is weak yah, but in this line, I don't even get what froggy is trying to say. is he saying C_C's flag thing is anti town? pro town? Like his comment on BH, he approaches the big topics of the thread but is listless in doing so.
I've already talked about why I don't like this post, talks about problems with VE blah blah blah votes C_C. if you don't think there's anything wrong with this post there's nothing more I can say.
In this next post:
On March 29 2012 02:18 froggynoddy wrote:
[redacted]
I think my reasoning is as follows, C_C's flip will, at this point in time give us the most information:
1. he flips scum --> gonzaw's likelihood of being scum increases
2. he flips town --> VE and Blue likelihood of being scum increases
One rogue element I'm struggling in dealing with is BH... I will be reading his filter over the next few hours.
@everyone: this is my 3rd game, I got shot in my 2nd game N1. My logic therefore might not be up to scratch and am more than willing to listen as to how I may be wrong. I am not a stubborn person if confronted with strong evidence and sound reasoning but OMGUS-ing and general name-calling will make me think you are a dick and I therefore will be less inclined to listen to you.
Froggy reveals that he one of the main reasons he wants to lynch C_C is for information; he hardly comments on thinking C_C is scum. The primary reason for a townsman to want to lynch is actually thinkign someone is scum; instead froggy speculatees on how C_C flipping will make this person or that person look scummy, which is illogical and irrelavant to if C_C should be lynched.
And that last paragraph seems really weirdly stuck in; out of the blue, he says "my logic might be good guys so correct me". nothing wrong with that, but why does he bring this up out of no where? being randomly apologetic is scummy because he is giving an excuse for bad logic.
Overall I don't get why no one has scrutinized froggy. He hasn't presented any original cases and sheeps like hell. Look at his filter and tell me that his actions even compare to the pro-town actions of other people in this game.
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On April 03 2012 10:19 johnnywup wrote:
Did VE even think BL was town? oO
he put that picture of you two as kitties; I interpreted that as him saying scum are targeting you two as hapless targets, aka cute kittens.
and he soft defends BL when he dismisses C_C's case on him:
On March 28 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why Bluelightz C_C? That's some defense/case you got there sir.
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As usual there are accidental typos and misformatted sentences, ask me if anything is unclear, or if you want me to answer for my previous actions or current suspicions.
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...."if Sinensis flips scum"; if he doesn't flip scum then we lost. Why didn't you simply say "so you'd be willing to lynch Blue tomorrow?"
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just commenting on something I noticed, not being needlessly aggressive -_- sheesh
gonzaw you go on and on about how I am somehow not allowed to be simultaneously suspicious of you but not willing to bet the game on pushing you. Yet here you are accusing me of bussing x2, yet you have never presented a case on me. Present said case on me sir gonzo, or I would appreciate less virulity.
so... no opinion on froggy?
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On April 04 2012 08:10 Probulous wrote:
Were there four blues in this game? If so that gives scum a 40% chance of nuke success night 1. Pretty high if you ask me.
Yep, and don't forget that by reading the thread and using logic, that chance goes up.
Huge credit to gonzaw for suggesting Nuke BH, shoot VE, but don't let it get to your head gonzo :p Remember your first suggestion of the night was "shoot froggy" until I said that we NEEDED BH or VE dead that night or else we'd be fcked.
As usual I am terribad at blue sniping. I was right about sloosh, but as probulous points out, that might have simply been luck. Very good planning this game overall; gonzaw I hope you know that I was reading and taking in all that you were writing in scum QT even if I didn't completely respond to all of your things. The coordination between myself/gonzaw/bluelightz was killer; this was definitely one of my favorite scum games to play.
My D1 play I was essentially trolling; DYH pointed out that being overly playful was a scumtell, but I think I was able to mask it well enough, esp. with the chaos that ensured over the cycle.
I felt bad for shooting VE a bit though since he always dies. VE policy kill N1?? xp Also felt bad for C_C getting lynched. Ur still my original scum bro <3
Also, for some weird reason out of the 7 games I've played, I've been scum 4 out of 6. And I'm 4-0 with scum. It's coming to the point where you guys should just policy lynch me -_-
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@VE, if you hadn't gone all hissy on BH that night, he might've protected you, b/c though ur day play didn't look scummy, at night you became stubborn. that part where he said "I'd eat my hat if someone shoots you" definitely looked like he was doing a metagame. Incidentally it is that, along with his fixation on vigs that made gonzaw conclude he was blue. If you had just posted a read or two (on say, me or gonzaw) this could've been quite a different game.
To people who thought C_C / sinensis were scum; there are times where reading meta are really helpful in discerning alignment, but you have to be very careful with that depending on the person's playstyle.
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@gonzaw wouldn't be shabby at all. like I said, I'm terribad at blue sniping :D
I think something that would've helped town is that instead of there being the 2 weak DTs, have 2 vigs who have to choose the same target for there to be a death. OO something like this:
President of the United States - Has power over a nuke, but due to the "Two Man Rule" (2 people needed to confirm a nuke launch), this nuke can only be fired if the "Secretary of Defense" chooses the same target at night. If the "Secretary of Defense" dies, then the President gains free reign over nuking privilages, but if a town-aligned target is killed, the President is impeached (suicide vig mechanic).
Secretary of Defense has same role.
Wouldn't that be badass??? If town had this, then cccalf might've died N1, or Bluelightz N2. Would've given them a chance.
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On April 04 2012 08:37 johnnywup wrote:you get townies nervous too VE 
amen. LOL at your signature jwup ><
also I don't get why people call you all sorts of weird nicknames. I called you mr. wup for teh lulz, but gonzaw called you jhonny in QT, and VE called you jdub(???)
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@sloosh yeah I actually planned to go down scummily by attacking you and such, because in the off chance that Sinensis made a turn around, there was almost 0 chance that gonzaw was going to be lynched. GJ catching it, though more people really should've ><
bringing up that meta could've helped I spose, but D1 lynches are always hard to tell. If I was actually townie it would've been pretty hard to defend C_C after the train started chugging along.
lmao at gonzaw getting more support from town/obs QT then from his scumbuddies xP love you gonzo
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On April 04 2012 11:43 Sinensis wrote:
It's nice being right about cccalf/DoYouHas when no one else was.
you kind of lucked out; in multiple games I've played the people intensely lurking were just random townies.
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On April 04 2012 07:20 Hassybaby wrote:
I dunno guys....I read Day 1 and i thought town had this game in the bag
Then that happened and i was like ._.
this is how I like playing my scum... lull the town into a false sense of security, like they're on the path to win the game...
...then rob it out from underneath their feet.
^^ !
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On April 05 2012 02:32 wherebugsgo wrote:
Recently it seems teams are being carried more by individual efforts while mostly everyone else is as good as a bag of bricks. That's how it was in Storm for both teams, and that's how it was in the mini I hosted as well. For both sides of a team-based game it's a losing proposition to give up or stop trying.
On the contrary, I'd say this game scum team had a pretty good combined effort to win this game. Gonzaw did a lot of the heavy lifting, most definitely, but everyone played their part. Even cccalf's intense lurking drew people's attention away enough that myself and bluelightz didn't get the necessary scrutiny to push us.
oh and big thanks to hosts for hosting!!
I'm starting to think that minis are mafia favored.
Does anyone think that gonzaw's decision to snipe BH and VE, or the Mafia Team Performance overall warrant nominations in the Mafia 2012 awards? I might be biased since I was on the scum team; was this a crafty game by scum, or just town self-imploding?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WcKq7.png)
