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On March 21 2012 01:13 Curu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +As for Abenson, he has so little material because he is not posting at all. But then it's even worse because in such little material he has quite a few connections to scum. First off he starts the game with: On March 11 2012 13:42 Abenson wrote:
Alright, checking in to the game.
Goal #1: Make all my post contain 3+ lines.
For the day 1 lynch I think we should just lynch the lurkers to force them to talk. Maybe we should follow his advice and lynch him. On day 1: On March 12 2012 22:49 Abenson wrote:
Just ignore Caller's case on DrH completely. He's just trolling.
The other stuff he posted seems to be legit though. Just ignore Caller he's trolling. lol. Why would Abenson pop in from his nonposting to just make a post on something so random? Its his one post on the day and it decides to single out Caller and tell us to ignore him. In the night: On March 15 2012 22:57 Abenson wrote:
I'm kinda worried that the mafia will kill Caller tonight. Again this out-of-nowhere fascination with Caller. No comments on anything else, no other posts, just something trying to protect Caller. When you look at the Kurumi lynch Kurumi randomly started posting stuff about Abenson too when it was very close to Kurumi getting lynched. He had to know there was no chance at all for Abenson to get lynched, Jackal or something was a more real possibility. I think Kurumi knew he was going down and decided to randomly name someone to try to get his scum buddy Town cred. Abenson, in about 5 posts, has clear connections to both scum who have flipped.
This expands on what I was getting at on Abenson, my vote is on him. post on wiggles next
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On March 20 2012 22:11 deconduo wrote:
Sandroba, Jaybrudage, Curu, Sentinel, Abenson, BM you guys need to claim your masons now.
this
I'm the one who prty much initiated the Abenson lynch (even though a lot of people agreed with me without expressing mcuh on the topic earlier...), so JB being on it isn't so much a bus, as a "vote for nearest lynch".
btw when I said @layabout any scum hunting, that was meant to be @jaybrundage, mbad. JB you said last night that you were going to be looking through filters, dyou have any original reads, or is it still Katina-Abenson at this point?
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to clarify: if JB is scum, and voting for scum Abenson, it shouldn't even be classified as a bus. not making assumptions on anyone's alignment.
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Mr. Wiggles
On March 20 2012 13:16 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Why would I ask you to lynch me? I also never told you to lynch into the list right away, either.1. I told you that there's scum in the list, and if everyone dies in it except for a few people, then you have a scum there nearly for sure. I don't see why I'd give reasoning for not lynching myself, when I wouldn't lynch myself, and know I'm town. I kept myself on the list for everyone, but took myself and deconduo off for myself, so there's no need to justify not lynching myself, to myself.
2. I put a lot more into that PM, because the PM was mostly hypothesis that needed external confirmation. I never said that Palmar was scum, just that everyone calling him confirmed town was stupid and that I wanted to probe deeper into his reasonings and keep my eye on him. Palmar didn't take out Kurumi, Kurumi took out himself. Palmar made a super-timid wishy-washy post saying that Kurumi claimed to him, and didn't even push the lynch. I even wrote this in my PM, if you read it.3. If you think this was an attempt to get you to push Palmar, then I don't know what to say. I didn't say he was certain scum, I never asked you to push him in the thread, and I never even proclaimed I had decided for myself that he was scum, because I was still trying to get him to tell me why he shot Jackal. Also, there's no way you'd have been able to lynch Palmar by yourself, even if I asked you to. If I wanted to do that, I'd have had to lead the lynch myself. So, that wouldn't even be a realistic plan.
Also, when you're posting a case that 4.has a large basis in your PM communications with someone, why wouldn't you post the relevant PMs? I think that would show a lot more, and let people form their own opinion.
1. my point is that your conclusion doesn't really make sense, and has the tone of someone trying to contribute, when really you aren't. Caller and Kurumi are both vets; the scum team could easily be rounded out by newer players.
2/3. I might've jumped the gun a bit when I said "you were trying to get me to push Palmar", but it still stands that you put a LOT more effort in your read on Palmar, while comparatively very little on the rest on the game, and when palmar flipped green I had to rescrutinize you. Believe me, everyone sheeping Palmar annoyed me and I was very skeptical, but anyone should've been able to recognize that him and Mattchew hammering Kurumi was a big deal.
4.My case doesn't have a "large basis" in pm communications, but you're right that I should've posted the logs. The basis of case is that you've been very apathetic about the game, not caring about the proceedings and only making slight prods at people, when you've have had more than enough information and time to do stuff. You're in-thread lack of presence and purpose looks rly scummy.
On March 20 2012 15:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
The best thing to do with either of them, would be to 5. put actual lynch pressure on them, and see how they react. Not make little cases that don't amount to anything, but seriously threaten them with the lynch until they can satisfy us that they're actually town.
Also, EchelonTee, what do you think of 6.Curu agreeing with your case?
5. that's what i'm doing towards you, and I don't like how you're reacting; you haven't rly addressed that you've been very listless in thread, while being way more active in pms where you can't be as easily tracked.
6. i thought it was a little weird considering he hasn't said anything on these topics on the past (forgive me if i'm wrong), but curu likes agreeing with others i spose.
On March 21 2012 00:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Your reasoning is terrible. You take a list posted by Palmar, where if you're telling the truth, has 2 townies on it who flipped and another who is checked, and two scum, and say that we should lynch everyone on the list? 7.How about I list 10 people in the game, I'm sure I'd hit scum too. Appealing to authority like that shows you don't actually have a basis for lynching me, or at least not one of your own, so you have to regurgitate what Palmar has said.
7. .....that is EXACTLY what you did earlier!!! "here's a lynch of vets, gotta be scum in here, if there's still some alive in this list, lynch the rest whoopee!" by criticizing Matt, you're contradicting yourself here VERY glaringly.
On March 21 2012 06:37 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2012 06:28 Curu wrote:
So why have you not Masoned anyone?
And why Bill Murray? What about Abenson or Katina? I haven't masoned anyone, because a bunch of people masoned me, so I figured I could save them for later in the game if I wanted to. After everyone claimed their contacts though, 8. everyone talking to me went silent, for whatever reason. I don't see how that would reflect on my alignment at all. If you're talking about the lynch, I said Bill Murray, 9. because he's the most dangerous of the lurkers, and because Dr. H drew a link between them. If you look at my post, it's not a "Let's kill this person and ignore the others" kind of thing, it's meant to go systematically through the people and actually threaten them with the lynch to see how they react. If we still think they're scum, we follow through. That's basically what's happening to abenson right now. He's actually being threatened with the lynch, and if he can't do anything to stop that, he will be killed. I wanted to start with Bill Murray though, instead of abenson. Notice how I called him out, and then he suddenly jumps into the thread, OMGUS's, and promises future analysis which he has yet to deliver on. That show's he's actively lurking, not just inactive, and he wants to acquiesce the town. Also, now that we've seen mafia can have a role like day-vig, can't BM acting 'like a blue' also be interpreted as being a mafia power role?
8. I have tried to talk to you plenty, and it takes forever for you to respond. i can understand if you're busy with RL stuff, but at some point it feels like you are being evasive.
9. how exactly is BM the most dangerous of the lurkers? you don't even go into his posts, or try and distinguish him from other lurkers. BM is someone who I've seen time and time again reveal his true colors very obviously as the game goes on; I only see him as dangerous in the early game when he causes a ruckus (TL L).
I don't like your defenses at all. deconduo any reason you think wiggles is town, or is it just from pms?
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@JB yeah that quote from deconduo was just a general call for people who hadn't claimed pms to do so, if you already did then mbad. and you're right, you were one of the first who accused Katina, though your initial reasoning to do so I found pretty weak.
waiting eagerly for this flip...
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can everyone calm the fck down; logic and rationality are both taking big hits
On March 22 2012 07:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:07 jaybrundage wrote:I know I'm town. So your tunneling a townie is bad. But your right me lynching scum and pushing is my reads is really scummy >.> I haven't played meek at all this entire game. My first post was voting for Rg because i didn't like his play. You call me sheeping Palmar? Lol I thought Palmar might be scum for a long while. Doc you act like im confirmed scum. When this game ends and I'm town. You can just see how bad your read was. I have pushed lynches on Kurumi and I was one of the first to vote for Caller (wasn't to sure on him tho) The funniest part is that we have the same reads and you still think im scum. Pretty funny stuff. We are not lynching me period get over it. Would you be willing to lynch Katina tomorrow? Because that's the lynch i would like. Almost forgot Ill try to compile a case on Katina. Im so tired tho  You're completely missing the point of my post. "I'm town" is not a defense nor does it indicate my alignment. Since when is anyone expected to have 100% of their reads right? I'm more upset by how awful you are as a player than anything, maybe that's clouding my judgment. Either way you flip, you are a horrible player
Whether or not someone is awful is independent of alignment; you should make your case sometime instead of just bickering with JB, most stubborn MF alive. I mean omfg, if you REALIZE that this arguing is clouding your judgement then you should just back off and reassess.
On March 22 2012 08:31 jaybrundage wrote:
Not true Matt layabout was FOSing me and wanted to lynch me. I never said he was tunneling.
Doc if you think im a bad player and that is clouding your judgement on my alignment. I don't know what to say to you stop being childish maybe?
I just think what happened is that me being confident in my reads rubbed you the wrong way. Because of that you are trying to get me out of the game because you didn't like my cockiness? I don't usually play this aggressively. However nothing wrong with a play style switch.
I disagree with you. I think I have been playing very well this game. I pushed Kurumi and I also think Katina will flip red as well.
Funny Doc doesn't think I can prove that I'm not scum. Must be scum then. Doc I didn't know you played mafia jubjub style XD
Stop being childish really? take your own advice. really, no one has been playing well this game so for you to have rly weird play D1/N1 (you looked rly damn scummy to me and others), then to come out guns ablazing D2 was really strange, and people calling you out for it is totally appropriate.
And your last sentence just hurts my brain: "doc doesnt think I can prove that i'm not scum. must be scum then". ??? think before you post please????????????
On March 22 2012 10:19 sandroba wrote:
Alright, so what do you plan to accomplish with all this spam back and forth between you 2? You believe that if you say he is scum another 20 times all the thread is going to last minute switch into lynching him and leave poor lurker abenson who posted 4x more now that he is up for lynch than in all previous days together?
docH hasn't been trying to switch the vote to JB, he's making his opinion clear that he does not agree with Abenson lynch. you're misportraying what is he doing for no reason; I agree their back and forth is shit but for you to not even address JB's flaws (they exist, omfg), is quite unfair.
Flip time
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uggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
why wouldnt he even post reads before dying -_-
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Curu there's only 10 alive; 7 to 3. If we mislynch today then it WILL be LYLO. which is some bad stuff.
Deconduo's alignment isn't set in stone (nobody's is) but him revealing all of the PM info along with the general tone of his posts puts him lower down on the totem (lynch) pole. Mattchew and I discussed this, among other things. On that topic, we shouldn't just forget the people who died + their reads.
I want Katina or Wiggles lynched; Wiggles for aforementioned reasons, Katina, because prplhz died at a seemingly random time, and she knew his role.
pms betwn Matt and Katina:
+ Show Spoiler +[12:01:16 PM] Matt Kaplan: hi
[12:07:20 PM] Summer Barnes: i!
[12:07:24 PM] Summer Barnes: Hi!
[12:07:35 PM] Matt Kaplan: still think im scum?
[12:08:05 PM] Summer Barnes: Questionable
[12:08:16 PM] Matt Kaplan: lol
[12:10:09 PM] Summer Barnes: That's why I messaged you :D
[12:10:19 PM] Matt Kaplan: im not
[12:10:27 PM] Matt Kaplan: i knew prp was medic when you did
[12:10:42 PM] Matt Kaplan: and the fact that scum def tried to shoot palmar
[12:10:47 PM] Matt Kaplan: should clear me
[12:11:01 PM] Matt Kaplan: cause i would never have let them shoot him with prp medic and them in PM's
[12:11:10 PM] Matt Kaplan: thats why i knew you were town
[12:11:16 PM] Matt Kaplan: and have stuck up for you the entire game
[12:13:08 PM] Summer Barnes: did palmar take a hit the night gumshoe died?
[12:13:19 PM] Matt Kaplan: well
[12:13:24 PM] Matt Kaplan: thats what me and prp assume
[12:13:33 PM] Matt Kaplan: cause prp was busy paramedic
[12:13:44 PM] Matt Kaplan: meaning him and his targets don't know if they are healed
[12:14:08 PM] Matt Kaplan: but its the only reasonable logic for only 1 kill
[12:14:19 PM] Matt Kaplan: prp even said it in thread
[12:14:25 PM] Matt Kaplan: that caller just finished the job
[12:16:36 PM] Matt Kaplan: im going to lunch
[12:16:43 PM] Matt Kaplan: ill be back on in like 45 min
[12:16:48 PM] Summer Barnes: okay
[12:16:56 PM] Matt Kaplan: mull all that over
[12:17:03 PM] Summer Barnes: i will
[12:55:35 PM] Matt Kaplan: back
[12:56:16 PM] Summer Barnes: k
[12:56:49 PM] Summer Barnes: you seem genuine
[12:56:56 PM] Summer Barnes: so i believe you
[12:57:27 PM] Matt Kaplan: so who's your scum team
[12:58:51 PM] Summer Barnes: I'm not mafia
[12:58:59 PM] Matt Kaplan: no
[12:59:06 PM] Matt Kaplan: like what is your guess at the scum team
[1:00:14 PM] Summer Barnes: DrH, deconduo, possibly Abenson
[1:00:29 PM] Summer Barnes: maybe echelon
[3:29:08 PM] Matt Kaplan: would you vote for wiggles
[3:29:12 PM] Matt Kaplan: if there was 6 votes on him
[3:29:18 PM] Matt Kaplan: and the other option was a no-lynch
[3:30:54 PM] Summer Barnes: I will need to take a better look at him first
[3:31:25 PM] Summer Barnes: I won't vote for him at the moment
[3:31:45 PM] Summer Barnes: do you think Wiggles has a good chance of being mafia?\
[3:32:12 PM] Matt Kaplan: there are 3 scum
[3:32:22 PM] Summer Barnes: most likely
[3:32:33 PM] Matt Kaplan: LOL you are so one of them
[3:33:05 PM] Summer Barnes: I'm just accounting for all the possibilities\
[3:33:42 PM] Matt Kaplan: what?
[3:34:06 PM] Summer Barnes: it's reasonable to assume that the traitor is on the mafia side, given that there was 2 deaths last night
[3:34:17 PM] Summer Barnes: though it's possible that mafia have other KP roles
[3:34:35 PM] Summer Barnes: or the offchance some idiot townie shot
[3:34:58 PM] Matt Kaplan: none of these are reasonable thoughts at all
[3:35:03 PM] Matt Kaplan: there are 3 scum
[3:35:10 PM] Matt Kaplan: they killed 2 people last night
[3:35:16 PM] Summer Barnes: the game started with 4 mafia, 2 are dead
[3:35:27 PM] Summer Barnes: that's the most likely scenario yes
[3:35:44 PM] Summer Barnes: but for that to happen the traitor would have to have been converted
[3:36:12 PM] Matt Kaplan: yes because when the entire game votes on 1 person because they basically scum claimed in the thread
[3:36:31 PM] Matt Kaplan: this is pointless
[3:36:34 PM] Matt Kaplan: you are scum
[3:38:00 PM] Summer Barnes: Again, I'm not mafia. Simply telling you what I'm thinking.
[3:38:52 PM] Matt Kaplan: why do you think drh is scum
[3:46:35 PM] Summer Barnes: Sorry my wireless gets a bit retarded every now and then
[3:46:45 PM] Summer Barnes: because he hasn't put in an honest effort
[3:46:53 PM] Summer Barnes: he hasn't really made a strong case on anyone
[3:46:58 PM] Summer Barnes: sheeps along with other people
[3:47:10 PM] Summer Barnes: he does not seem to 100% care about the lynches
[3:47:15 PM] Summer Barnes: and all he does is call people stupid
[3:59:00 PM] Summer Barnes: to better answer your earlier question now that I've had time
[3:59:11 PM] Summer Barnes: Yes I'll kill Wiggles over a no lynch
[3:59:43 PM] Summer Barnes: DrH is still a better target though
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myself and curu posted cases on Wiggles. Sandroba also with smaller case.
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Wat? in thread sandroba was way more on wiggles than drh, and how could mafia know what sandroba was saying in pms, to judge it on? He was only pming curu and palmar, did you just wildly scum slip? Voting based off "oh I was on wrong track i'm going to vote in a way that keeps me unaccountable" is rly dam suspicious curu.
No one has any rebuttal to the wiggles case. Several people have agreed that wiggles usually isn't this disinterested. Wiggles even says its weird for him to reach late game. Why the hell is no one voting him of everyone is suspicious and there its little backing him?
the only other cases presented are a meta filed case on drh which is just saying "oh you didn't tell usall your opinions and explain with an essay all of your thoughts, so your scum". Not only has no one explicitly explained their every LSAT idea, this would be detrimental as it would clutter thread. The other one is a very loose case on deconduo thatdoesn't explain anything.
Voting wiggles. I've made a case, half of the dead people were suspicious of him, we shouldn't let this slip away.
From phone might be typos. I'll be back before deadline, everyone please consider the cases put forth and make a sensible vote.
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On March 25 2012 03:15 Curu wrote:
I think there's a very solid reason sandroba was shot and I was left alone. sandroba is a better player, definitely, but he was quite disinterested in the game. I had considered DrH almost certain Town while sandroba was getting pretty suspicious of him in thread and in PMs.
That I haven't been shot yet I think shows that I was on the wrong track so I'm going to with sandroba's read.
curu I was referring to this post; ur conclusion doesn't make sense, because u are saying that sandroba was shot for a "very solid reason", when in thread you both essentially had the same opinions. Mafia couldn't have shot sandroba for being more "on the right track" because you two were not very indistinguishable in terms of reads. this doesnt matter at this pt, however.
@Wiggles if wanting to lynch someone that I think is scum is desparate, while pointing the strangness that lots of people are suspicious of you yet no one pushes you, then sure I'm a desparate SOB. at least i'm not apathetic towards the game.
are we no-lynching today? where is everybody. and did ZBot explode, becuase the voting thread shows only 1 active vote.
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On March 25 2012 09:15 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I think one of you or EchelonTee are scum, because scum wouldn't not PM me, especially if they aren't planning on shooting me.
what does this mean? "scum wouldn't not pm me"
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JB can you post your case on Katina right before night ends?
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don't have time to make involved post before deadline:
BM - non-transparent lurker, much like other people in thread. Unscummy overall, and I trust DT check info from Mattchew.
DrH - my opinion of him is very similar to how I feel towards Curu. early game very conducive to town atmosphere, correct on several of the scum lynches. for the past few days have only been bickering/sheeping.
if I die, I'd be pushing Katina tomorrow.
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What? Bm saying there is guilty dt check on me, but that makes deconduo scum? Give context layabout pls.
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layabout, you realize in your pm conversation with katina, you go on at length about your reads and you reasoning (which revolve around me being scum, why aren't u pushing me then ...?), while katina just nods along and says "town needs to talk more mmhmm". where is she now?
putting my case on katina tonight
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my thoughts on
Katina
Examining her reason to not vote Kurumi brings up something gold:
On March 16 2012 02:58 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 02:27 layabout wrote:
Can somebody be a dear an explain why they are so certain that Kurumi is mafia? Kurumi isn't mafia. He is not just speaking nonsense and flooding the thread even though his plan backfired and caused a major distraction. And in between all of the pokemon crap he was actively speaking his mind. You can tell he is not mafia becaunse his posting has been entirely consistent from day 1. He has not been flip flopping or doing any other tell-tale signs of mafia. ]
The key behind Katina thinking Kurumi was town, and also the reasoning she uses to proclaim her town status, is that being "consistent" is a town tell. She states that again in her PM with layabout: + Show Spoiler +[01:06:18] Summer Barnes: I've been clear the entire game on who I think is mafia
[01:06:26] Summer Barnes: but you could stand to do that
Aside from the fact that Kurumi's flip shows that "remaining consistent" isn't a town tell, overall this concept is highly deceptive. Being logical and reasonable throughout a game is an indicator of being town, but as town, it's impossible and frankly incorrect to remain rigid to your stances. Games change over time, and being unyielding is either plain ignorance or willful deception.
As mafia, holding fast to some stance and sticking with it obstinately is essentially a free pass. You don't have to comment on relevant cases ("I disagree, I already stated my suspicion"), you deny responsibility for failures ("I stated why I thought he wasn't scum, that's that"), you don't even have to post!
Examples of this concept:
Palmar initially thought Caller was town. His opinion changed.
Deconduo initially thought DrH was talking sense. He now thinks DrH is scum
I thought that Jitsu was scum. Filter me and look at my case; but do I talk about Jitsu at all after that day? No! Why? I changed my mind! I pressured Jitsu hard, and he responded well, so I backed off and realized he was likely town. This is how you remain transparent; you pressure your suspects and judge them.
Katina has not considered any other viewpoints but her own all game; this shows a distinct lack of consideration for the thread happenings, and laughably enough removes her accountability from thread goings on.
The prplhz WIFOM:
This is obviously a less concrete arguement, but as briefly mentioned, prplhz was a medic. Mattchew previously thought Katina was townie, b/c of the fact that she knew prplhz' role and prplhz still lived, but then prplhz died a random death. At the time prplhz was shot, he didn't have much thread presence, and at the same time no one had explicitly or implicitly outted him as a medic in thread. It's possible Mafia shot him for some other reason, but it's pretty likely that Mafia knew he was medic (through Katina) and sniped him.
Contradictions of Katina that make her look scummy:
1.says that DrH is scummy for bashing other people constantly
examples of Katina bashing people for loose reasons:
1 2 3
2.calls out people for not contributing enough
Katina has less posts/content than VE, a dood that died N1. Says she'll talk more in pms with layabout, doesn't.
3.states that she has been open about her reads
never said why she thought abenson/wiggles were Mafia. she is quite intransparent in PMs.
All in all I am most sure of Katina being mafia. she has put on the veil of contribution without actually doing anything all game, and her logic breaks down under inspection.
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wait what? doesn't this mean we lose?
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GG
kind of an anticlimatic ending. the google doc is set on private atm can you share it?
lmao at the obs qt
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EPT
