Alright, let's get this going. We need an active town this game. I'm expecting a lot from you sl0osh. To start things off, I would appreciate it if everyone would mention whether or not they have played before in their first post. And if you have, please mention or link the game(s) that you played in.

This is my second game. I played in Newbie Mini Mafia III. I also have been participating in the observer quicktopic for Normal Mini Mafia I if you want to look at that after that game ends.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 01:29 GMT

#97

On February 17 2012 10:09 MidnightGladius wrote:
On the last occasion that the town faced unfavorable odds, Newbie Mini Mafia III, the lack of mafia power roles and relative abundance of innocent power roles helped to balance the setup, and I think that it will be the same here.

Newbie Mini Mafia III was 4/9, that is very different from 4/11. I see the normal mafia to town ratio as being 1/4. As such I think we are pretty close and cannot speculate as to the number of roles or what roles are in the game.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 02:51 GMT

#122

The point is not to lynch lurkers, it is to lynch scum. If a lynching a lurker is the best option we have near a deadline, then by all means, let's do it. But policy lynching is just a terrible idea. I am already looking suspiciously at the ET for espousing it.

FOS: EchelonTee

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 04:31 GMT

#145

ET, instead of jumping on every little inconsistency you find in order to go blow for blow with sl0osh, why not just make a note of it and present a more complete case later. Bickering can be useful, but I fear this is going to turn into Toast vs prplz.

sl0osh, I dislike your attack on ET. Pointing out that both town and mafia can have motivation for the same action just looks to me like he is covering his bases so he can't be accused of not considering all the options later. And his calling you out was perfectly founded. You were an active poster in NMM3 who looked towards putting quality in the thread. If you suddenly went lurker on us it wouldn't be a stretch to think that you were organizing the mafia in their qt.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 04:56 GMT

#151

I want MannerKiss to chime in. Let those opinions fly! Who looks scummy to you and why?

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 05:05 GMT

#156

Then allow me to do it again. Has nothing caught your eye so far? Nothing from gumshoe or ET or sl0osh or any of the other ppl?

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 19:19 GMT

#192

I think it is about time we start talking about who to lynch today. With the scheduling problems mentioned by a few people, I don't think we can wait too much longer.

My current list of people I'm consdering voting for is sl0osh and MannerKiss

sl0osh, he overreacted badly to a perfectly fine way of calling him out. Everything in his exchange was just an extended version of OMGUS (attacking the person who attacked you only because he attacked you). I think it is too easy to dismiss sl0osh's failure to see the reason behind ET's actions as his standard confirmation bias. Not acknowledging that ET's initial reference to him was purely to get him talking, not to frame him as mafia. I also thought that whole post about ET's tone was just a big pot of confirmation bias.

MannerKiss, his fairly immediate response to me calling him out told me he was paying attention to the thread IE, actively lurking. The two explanations for which would be a new townie unsure of what to post, or a new scum unsure of what to post. The one-liner back at me and his lack of a response to me trying to call him out a second time make me feel it is more likely the latter.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 19:44 GMT

#194

Gumshoe, I would like it if you would start taking stances on players. You have cluttered the thread with talk about a useless poll (and yes it IS useless, it does not matter what it could have been). The only posts that I have found useful of yours are the two on MidnightGladius. I did not need a clarification on people's stances on lynching lurkers, I have read the thread. Your early list was largely contentless and just took up space in my opinion. I want you to start talking in specifics. Taking the wide view isn't a bad thing, you just need to bring up something that doesn't look obvious when you post like that.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 19:55 GMT

#196

I did not pursue my FOS on ET because I was satisfied with his response. I dropped it and moved on. Applying pressure early doesn't create chaos, it creates content.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 20:34 GMT

#207

On February 18 2012 04:19 DoYouHas wrote:
sl0osh, he overreacted badly to a perfectly fine way of calling him out. Everything in his exchange was just an extended version of OMGUS (attacking the person who attacked you only because he attacked you). 1. I think it is too easy to dismiss sl0osh's failure to see the reason behind ET's actions as his standard confirmation bias. Not acknowledging that ET's initial reference to him was purely to get him talking, not to frame him as mafia. 2. I also thought that whole post about ET's tone was just a big pot of confirmation bias.

1. This refers to you failing to see the reasons behind ET's pressuring of you. Your post about ET's attitude towards yourself and gumshoe is not based in that failing.

2. THIS refers to that post about attitude. A post which I thought was clearly founded in confirmation bias.

They were 2 opinions about 2 sections of your exchange with ET. You treating them both as if they referred to the same thing is wrong.

(You = sl0osh)

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 20:53 GMT

#209

On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short.

Could you explain this further? I don't follow the 75% chance.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 21:03 GMT

#211

gumshoe brings up a good point against Steveling when you consolidate gum's posts on him. Steveling initially said that lynching lurkers is our best scumhunting option so long as nobody looks very scummy by the end of the day. But then when he thought the day was ending he decided to push a no-lynch. Please explain.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 21:30 GMT

#223

My logic is that sl0osh is a decent to good player of mafia. As such I believe it is scummy for sl0osh to have ignored obvious reasoning and launched into OMGUS. It is that simple. I don't believe the quality of player that sl0osh is would have reacted in the way that sl0osh did as a townie.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 17 2012 22:39 GMT

#237

On February 18 2012 06:46 slOosh wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you want to lynch me based on meta just say so.

The reason why I started to banter with EchelonTee was to create discussion and also see how he (one of the more experienced members) would respond. Mission accomplished. I stopped when I felt like when it was going out of hand.

Show nested quote +

I am dropping my case on sl0osh for now for 2 reasons.

1. His explanation that I bolded fits and is reasonable.

2. Other cases have been presented that are stronger than mine and I want to free both sl0osh and myself up to be constructive in that area.

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 18 2012 00:51 GMT

#259

Here is my thinking on gumshoe so far. I think he is a townie.

gumshoe has done a number of things that are not helping the town. The have been pointed out quite a few times so I won't go into depth about them now. Things like derailing, cluttering, unclear-ness, lying, a few inconsistencies. Yet in spite of this my intuition keeps pulling me towards a townie read for him. Here are a few of the things that are informing this stance:

First and foremost is gumshoe's reckless and active posting style. I just don't see him as someone who is checking his posts with team members or even as someone who is going to a mafia QT and discussing his moves. He strikes me as playing by the seat of his pants, which is something I would not expect of scum on day1. This is supported by the little inconsistencies in his posting (I am thinking specifically about the one trackd00r pointed out)

Secondly, gumshoe has both continued to defend himself about the poll while admitting that it makes him look scummy. I would expect a couple things from a scum put in a similar situation. Either he would play it off as a ploy and a joke in order to get people talking (which he did somewhat) and then try to put it behind him, or he would take some early shots at throwing suspicion onto someone else. He did not try to put it behind him, he even says that you would be crazy not to be suspicious of him for the poll. He took a long long time to start throwing actual suspicions around which I think is a long time to wait when you are scum and in the spotlight early.

Like I said at the start, this is a stance based on intuition, not solid logic. So feel free to pick at it.

I'll leave you with a bit of information that I've been keeping track of.

People who have been defending/supporting gumshoe (soft or otherwise): + Show Spoiler +

struck out names are for those who have switched

DoYouHas, Alderan, Janaan, TKHawkins, ~~MidnightGladius~~

People who have been attacking/suspicious of gumshoe:
MidnightGladius, blae000, ET, Steveling(kinda), trackd00r, sl0osh, Dimmuklok, jaj22, ~~DoYouHas~~

DoYouHas

United States1110 Posts

February 18 2012 06:45 GMT

#301

Just finished reading after being away for a while. Gum, for the sake of my eyes, when you quote walls of text, put them in spoilers. If you are doing analysis on that wall of text, link the whole thing then just quote the relevant parts. Also, the preview button is your friend. I'm going to go back over what I just read again and let it sink in a bit.

I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I wrote it to be picked at and debated, but you all seem content hammering away at each other. Making big cases and walls of text is nice, but spending all your time on them is going to blind you. I know from personal experience.

My schedule is going to be very busy tomorrow. I will be unavailable starting at 4-3 hours before the deadline and remain so for something like 8-9 hours.